Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

yellow box question????

  • 10-03-2009 9:37pm
    #1
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭


    Looking for advice on fixed penalty notice for entering yellow box when turning right. Light controlled T-junction all multi lane and I entered from the leg of the T and took up position behind cars continuing to my right. Both myself and another guy were in the box and when the lights changed no traffic was blocked. Bike cop standing on the footpath chewed the guy in front of me first and then proceeded to tear me a new one. I told him I understood it was legal to do so and no traffic was held up. He informed I was blocking the traffic behind me (coming from the lefthand side of the T) which I couldnt understand. If I wasnt there.....they still couldnt enter the box as they were going straight ahead. And when the traffic moved - I was going to be moving with them anyway. He was adamant and fairly aggressive and I decided to shut up and take it thinking he was either correct or if mistaken would twig it later.
    Anyways...end result Eu60 and penalty point. No intention going to court on the matter but highly peeved over it. Any advice?/
    Seaniep.


Comments

  • #2
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,688 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    What about people coming from the left of the T and wanting to turn right. Would you not be blocking them?

    It was foolish to enter the box if the road to which you were turning looked like it was ful of cars and wouldnt allow you to finish the maneouver even after the lights turned.


  • #3
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seaniep


    No Mick - I entered from a one way street so the traffic from my left could only go straight on. It's kinda hard to explain the junction but its nearly identical to the bottom right on http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/yellow-box-junctions.html
    I entered as per the example given.
    Seaniep.


  • #4
    Sean@boards.ie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭Sean@boards.ie


    If the yellow box you mention is what I think it is you are not meant to enter it unless you can exit it. That is why they are there.


  • #5
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,378 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    If it was me then I'd go to court over it. Clearly the purpose of the box junction is to allow traffic from the leg into the main lane. Otherwise in heavy traffic you'd never get out. I know of several of these box junctions in the estates near me that serve that purpose otherwise they have absolutely no use. Also it would be quite clear to a judge that in no way are you blocking traffic as the oncoming traffic is unable to move until the lights change when you move also.

    ROTR: An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don't enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way


  • #6
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seaniep


    Thats exactly the way I always understood these junctions to work but why would a bike cop who probably is traffic corps decide to stand at the junction and procede to chew the rocks off everyone thinking they were making a legal turn.
    Ironically when I saw him I was glad because I thought he was there to catch the late turners who regularly leave their arse hanging out and blocking cars illegally. Wasnt long changing my tune...
    Seaniep.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Alun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,499 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    ROTR: An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don't enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way
    Exactly. And in your case, as you were entering from the leg of the T, there was no oncoming traffic. If it had been a crossroads, or you'd entered from one of the bars (is that the right term?) of the T to turn right then it would have been OK. The idea is that you should be able to clear the junction the minute the lights change or a suitable gap in oncoming traffic appears, which in your case you couldn't guarantee, since you don't know that the traffic in front of you could move when that happened due to other traffic in front of it.

    That's always been my reading of it anyway.


  • #8
    OldmanMondeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭OldmanMondeo


    Think the Gurad may be right on you, but worng on the guy in front. Reason being, the Guy in front would not have been blocking trafic and would have meant only 1 car in the box, you however had entere the box, with no clear exit because of the car in front. I notice you also mentioned that there were traffic lights that changed, because you were sencond in the que you should have been waiting behind the white line and therefore could also have been done for breaking a red light.

    That is only from my reading of you post, I could well be wrong, and this been the Boards Motor forum will be told quickley if I am or not.....:D


  • #9
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    OldmanMondeo wrote: »
    Think the Gurad may be right on you, but worng on the guy in front. Reason being, the Guy in front would not have been blocking trafic and would have meant only 1 car in the box, you however had entere the box, with no clear exit because of the car in front. I notice you also mentioned that there were traffic lights that changed, because you were sencond in the que you should have been waiting behind the white line and therefore could also have been done for breaking a red light.

    That is only from my reading of you post, I could well be wrong, and this been the Boards Motor forum will be told quickley if I am or not.....:D

    Yep, I'd agree with that - as it says in the 2nd para HERE, you can enter the box, if turning right.

    But, as OldmanMondeo says, if you were behind the guy turning right, even if you're turning right, I'm afraid, you'll have to suck up the fine.

    At least there's no points involved.

    Oooh, or is there ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #10
    junior_apollo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭junior_apollo


    From the sounds of the junction and your description, the junction has a yellow box to keep the section clear at all times...

    Going on a T shape...
    There are lights to stop traffic which is coming from the left t-top.
    There are lights to stop the traffic coming from the leg and turning onto the right t-top.

    Basically...
    When the traffic lights stop the left t-top, then the box should be clear.
    IF the traffic on the right t-top is stagnant then people coming from the leg (you and the other driver) SHOULD NOT enter the box.
    Drivers coming from the leg should only enter the box if the traffic in the right t-top move on and a gap appears between them and the box.
    When the lights for the leg turn red then the box should be clear. The left t-top then have a green light...
    AGAIN... drivers from the left t-top should now ONLY enter the box if the right t-top starts to move.. if it is full and stagnant then they just sit there...

    Thats the way it is supposed to happen... granted this isnt always the case.. but technically... the guarda was correct and you were in the wrong.


  • #11
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,352 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    My understanding of the junction you describe, similar to what others have said here, is that there are no circumstances under which anybody is entitled to enter that yellow box without having a clear exit. The reason being that there is no route through the junction where someone will be making a right turn and have their passage held up by oncoming traffic. Chalk this one down to experience and move on.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    junior_apollo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭junior_apollo


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    My understanding of the junction you describe, similar to what others have said here, is that there are no circumstances under which anybody is entitled to enter that yellow box without having a clear exit. The reason being that there is no route through the junction where someone will be making a right turn and have their passage held up by oncoming traffic. Chalk this one down to experience and move on.

    Agreed..

    The scenario your trying to use to defend your actions would only be valid in a full cross junction where you would be using the box to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic so you could cross. Not in a T junction scenario (described in my previous post)


  • #13
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seaniep


    Thanks - you lot are a right bundle of good news:pac:
    The particular junction in question can be a right bitch during rush hour (been using it for years) and it's always been accepted practice by motorists at all legs of the T to allow cars from the side road to occupy the box provided their tail wasnt hanging out to snag traffic free to proceed from the right. As a matter of fact anyone at the head of the queu slow to do it usually would be blasted to drive on.
    All things considered I think the advice is good and I'll just pay and forget about it even though its 1 point as well.
    Cheers,
    Seaniep.


  • #14
    Nonoperational
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,401 ✭✭✭Nonoperational


    Sean@boards.ie wrote: »
    If the yellow box you mention is what I think it is you are not meant to enter it unless you can exit it. That is why they are there.

    No no no no. You can enter a yellow box and stay in it if your turning right and not holding up any traffic by doing so.


  • #15
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seaniep


    gpf101 wrote: »
    No no no no. You can enter a yellow box and stay in it if your turning right and not holding up any traffic by doing so.
    That opinion got me a "people like you" lecture from a bike cop in Cork:D
    Can you elaborate gp?????????
    Seaniep.


  • #16
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,513 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    I'd lay a lot of blame for yellow box confusion on the ROTR.

    It sounds like the original poster did something very similar to the right hand side of the below image in the ROTR.
    j&r_yellow-box-junctions_01.jpg

    This image was also in a previous issue of the ROTR and in addition it was stated that drivers may stop in a yellow box when turning right if your exit is prevented by oncoming traffic or by other right turning vehicles. The part I've put in bold might apply to the OP but not to the car in front of him? Anyway this line appears to have been removed in the current edition.

    Then again the ROTR is apparently not a legal document yet it is a standard Government publication used when teaching people how to drive. This seems absurd. Are drivers supposed to ignore the ROTR and instead trawl through www.irishstatutebook.ie

    There was a big debate on yellow boxes rules here before. This is anoraky
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256144


  • #17
    seaniep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seaniep


    Thanks for going to the trouble Brian but it's not worth us getting anoraky about the thing. Truth be told - they can have the shaggin Eu60 but anyone doing 60 odd k per year can ill afford points on their licence for stupid petty offences. You need a fairly mature outlook to not catagorise all traffic corps guys as power tripping w*nkers. Fortunately I've come across enough of the professional ones to know that most have a sense of perspective. There's more than enough shyte on the roads to keep them occupied anyway.
    Seaniep.


  • #18
    junior_apollo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 740 ✭✭✭junior_apollo


    seaniep wrote: »
    Thanks - you lot are a right bundle of good news:pac:
    The particular junction in question can be a right bitch during rush hour (been using it for years) and it's always been accepted practice by motorists at all legs of the T to allow cars from the side road to occupy the box provided their tail wasnt hanging out to snag traffic free to proceed from the right. As a matter of fact anyone at the head of the queu slow to do it usually would be blasted to drive on.
    All things considered I think the advice is good and I'll just pay and forget about it even though its 1 point as well.
    Cheers,
    Seaniep.


    "Accepted Practice" and what is "correct" according to traffic laws rarely go hand in hand :D

    "As a matter of fact anyone at the head of the queu slow to do it usually would be blasted to drive on." - Yes it can be infuriating... but it all stems from people filling the box incorrectly and then blocking up traffic from the other lane and then the cycle is repeated and traffic jams ensue.. if people followed the rules then things would perhaps run more smoothly...

    I know in reality this will never happen though as there are way too many idiots on the roads and so its a bit of a lost cause tbh. :rolleyes:

    Just keep in mind next time your in a similar situation... the guardai will look at things strictly by the book.. so if you were to wait at the lights and someone honks at you.. it is that person who will get the roasting from the officer - not you for correctly obeying the law.
    gpf101 wrote: »
    No no no no. You can enter a yellow box and stay in it if your turning right and not holding up any traffic by doing so.

    That is ONLY if you are waiting for a gap in on-coming traffic (ie a full cross-junction).. you CANNOT stop in a yellow box for any other reason legally... (You must not enter the yellow box junction unless you can clear it without stopping. ) The exception for turning right only relates to cross-junctions as there is NO oncoming traffic in the scenario here with the T-junction... hence no way to use the exception.
    It is there on T-junctions to keep the area clear of all traffic... as your not supposed to be occupying it unless you are moving through it.

    So Yes yes yes yes. ;)


Advertisement