Gay dad causing misery

LegacyUser

My mother and father live together, and are married for >40years.
For the last 10 years my father has been having regular rendezvous's with other men around the country, for you know what.
His feeble attempts at discretion have meant that not only do his family know, but some of my friends, and I'm sure some of our neighbours.
Recently he has been bringing guys to the family home as soon as my mothers back is turned (work or even mass!).
He denies it when confronted, and any conversation on the subject quickly deteriorates into a petty dog fight, with him doing anything to divert away from the issue at hand.
We have lots of proof, not that we need it.
My mother has been living with this going on under her nose and it's naturally upsetting her.
All the continuous deceipt and lies have caused any relationship they had to fizzle out, to the point that there is virtually no communication between them.
My mum still cooked his dinners and washed his clothes but that is soon to stop.
My mum is very unhappy living with him and wants out.
He has refused to do the honourable thing and go, instead suggesting the house be put on the market for public auction.
This has been our family home for many years with all children been reared there, and my mum putting in much energy to make it a good home.
He did not have much input in rearing us.

My mum has reached the end of her tether with this now, and he is not going to change, so something has to be done.
I am going to ask him again to do the honourable thing and go, and we will try and accomodate him elsewhere.
He may refuse, in which case he'll be on his own, I'll buy the house (if he agrees to public auction) and he'll be left to squander half of the proceeds from the family home on his new hobby.
None of us want to see our mum move, she does not want to move, and she should not have to move.

My questions are:
- What do you people think we should do?
- Does anyone know can he be forced to put the house on the market if he refuses to?
(My mum's name is on the house so she is half owner)

Thanks for any advice.

Mr. Incognito

Family law solicitor tbh.

Nevyn

I don't think the gender of the people your Dad is bringing into the house is as much
of an issue that he is bringing people into the family home disrespecting the home and
those who are also living there.

I think you need to get your Mam to see a solicotor and look at trying to buy your Dad out
or getting the house sold.

Your Mam should stop doing any thing for him in terms of washing or cooking.

Wink

Your mum might be entitled to legal aid, she should definitely check it out, their website should tell you which is the closest law centre to you.

wicklori

Your Mam really should get some good advice before she does anything! If your Dad is indeed gay, she might even be able to go down the route of annullment (you mention she goes to Mass so this may be relevant...)
Depending on the ages of the children of this relationship, the Family Home Potection Act may be of use.... But again she would need to get proper legal advice.
The problem will ultimately be to get him to move out.

yellowcurl

He's the one committing adultery, consult a lawyer and see what your mom can do. And yes, she should stop doing all of these things for him, he's not contributing anything to the marriage, so why should she?

Make sure you keep all the cases of infidelity that you have found well documented too.

bluecell99

yellowcurl wrote: »

He's the one committing adultery, consult a lawyer and see what your mom can do. And yes, she should stop doing all of these things for him, he's not contributing anything to the marriage, so why should she?

Make sure you keep all the cases of infidelity that you have found well documented too.

Unfortunately a full legal separation or divorce is the only solution here.It is terrible that your mother has to put up with this.It's unreal the way she still cooks and cleans for him.She must find the strength to move on and get her self respect back.You dont mention under age children ,which if there were ,it is not possible to sell the house,yet.

If he wont listen to reason and go then a very serious chat with a lawyer is the next step and essential.He is in the wrong and it is disgusting for him to rub your faces in it.If he had a shred of decency he would be gone long,long ago.

Xterminator

I feel for your mum, its a sad situation.

but feelings aside, your da and your mam have together bought the house. and your dad does own 50% of it. His sleazly behaviour doesn't change this fact. It doesnt matter if he was a good father or a good husband.

If he was sorry for the emotional carnage he has caused, and continues to cause, he might have decided to surrender his interests in the house, but he's not under any legal obliation to do so.

Your mam has put up with it for a long time, for whatever reason, and she could apply for seperation/divorce but regardless the house would be treated as community property, and as such she would have to buy your dad out, or sell the house and give him his share.

X

kmick

If there is a few boys in the family you could just put the run on him as they say (non violently of course!!!). Offer him a few quid. He is half owner of the house though so he is entitled to that. Could you re mortgage the house and give him his cut and pay the mortgage between the remaining kids and your mum?

Victor

kmick wrote: »

If there is a few boys in the family you could just put the run on him as they say (non violently of course!!!). Offer him a few quid. He is half owner of the house though so he is entitled to that. Could you re mortgage the house and give him his cut and pay the mortgage between the remaining kids and your mum?

Whatever he has done wrong, I don't think he deserves to be run out of his own home.

Such suggestions are unacceptable.

jim o doom

yellowcurl wrote: »

He's the one committing adultery, consult a lawyer and see what your mom can do. And yes, she should stop doing all of these things for him, he's not contributing anything to the marriage, so why should she?

Make sure you keep all the cases of infidelity that you have found well documented too.

I'd agree with this post here - there's a chance he might not have a leg to stand on legally, due to being an adulterer (regardless of the sex of the person with whom he is cheating with) - I can't imagine an Irish court allowing the adulterous half in a marriage walking away from wife and family with half the worth of the family home.

He certainly doesn't deserve the money from it, and they probably woulnd't award him with it.

duploelabs

It certainly a horrible situation but have you actually talked to your Dad and get his side of the story and his thoughts? He may be gay but he is human nonetheless and has feelings

jim o doom

Victor wrote: »

Whatever he has done wrong, I don't think he deserves to be run out of his own home.

Such suggestions are unacceptable.

By that logic, why should the mother or children he is choosing to abandon (and treat with such contempt) be forced to buy his half of the family home?

Obviously they cannot continue to live with him due to his own actions so he must leave..
why should they then be forced to shoulder the massive financial burden of purchasing his half of the house due to this?
It's his choice to act in such a dishonorable manner (I would say the same thing if he was dragging women into the family home when anyones back was turned) so he is the one who should suffer any financial consquences - not his innocent family who have, on the face of it, done nothing wrong.

Victor

jim o doom wrote: »

I'd agree with this post here - there's a chance he might not have a leg to stand on legally, due to being an adulterer (regardless of the sex of the person with whom he is cheating with) - I can't imagine an Irish court allowing the adulterous half in a marriage walking away from wife and family with half the worth of the family home.

He certainly doesn't deserve the money from it, and they probably woulnd't award him with it.

No. Irish courts don't take "blame" for the likes of cheating into account like courts in other countries.

jim o doom

Victor wrote: »

No. Irish courts don't take "blame" for the likes of cheating into account like courts in other countries.

Really? well that sucks.. I guess buying out his half is going to have to happen then. Either way I'd still be straight onto a lawyer and having him out of yer life as soon as possible & cut off contact to boot - he doesn't deserve a family.

John Mason

why should your father be the one to leave?

Its is only fair that the house is and half the proceed are given to each party.

Your father is an adult and if he wants to squander his money, that is his business

cotwold

Its such a shame he is so dishonourable but you shouldn't let him away with an inch. Contact your family solicitor and see what legal options are available, as hes been serially unfaithful he might not even be entitled to half the house. I understand this could all be very difficult for your mother so you should act on her behalf if she doesnt want to discuss it with a stranger(your solicitor).

Lollipops23

you're father cannot have his cake and eat it. he wants the comfort of having your mother run around after him while showing no respect or love for her. if i were her i'd kick him out asap,tho i know that's easier said than done.

im not sure what the law's stance on this is, i just hope your mum finds the strength to stand up to this adulterous príck soon,she doesn't deserve to be treated this way,and none of you deserve to be lied to.

John Mason

cotwold wrote: »

Its such a shame he is so dishonourable but you shouldn't let him away with an inch. Contact your family solicitor and see what legal options are available, as hes been serially unfaithful he might not even be entitled to half the house. I understand this could all be very difficult for your mother so you should act on her behalf if she doesnt want to discuss it with a stranger(your solicitor).

the fact that has been unfaithful is not relavent, he will still be entitled to half the house

LegacyUser

There are two issues here, the emotional relationships within the family and the legal division of assets. They are different and you, your siblings and your mother need to separate them in your own heads or you will end up bitter and financially much worse off then you should be.

On the legal side, your parents are separating and there is no why about that. It is their relationship, entered into by mutual agreement and it can be ended by the action of either party. It has been, on a legal and logical side accept that. Attributing blame is pointless and for the emotional side of the argument. What matters now are the facts. Who paid for the house? Who lives in the house? What other assets exist? Who wants to continue to live in the house? Who has the means to provide for themselves in the future? What is the best solution for both parties to enable themselves to move on with their lives separately?

For the emotional side I suggest you all seek counselling or at the very least start communicating with each other. You yourself need to stop attributing blame, it's none of your business and not your place to judge. By your own account it would seem that both your parents has been trapped in a loveless marriage for 40 years. A small amount of sympathy and empathy may get you much further than shouting matches and accusations.

994

jim o doom wrote: »

By that logic, why should the mother or children he is choosing to abandon (and treat with such contempt) be forced to buy his half of the family home?

Obviously they cannot continue to live with him due to his own actions so he must leave..
why should they then be forced to shoulder the massive financial burden of purchasing his half of the house due to this?
It's his choice to act in such a dishonorable manner (I would say the same thing if he was dragging women into the family home when anyones back was turned) so he is the one who should suffer any financial consquences - not his innocent family who have, on the face of it, done nothing wrong.

Because half the house belongs to him. If the mother was having regular affairs you'd never demand that she leave the family without a penny. But a man must always pay...

mickoneill30

Why does he want an auction? I'd say there's potential for abuse there.

i.e. he knows you want to buy it so gets somebody to bid against you to push the price up.

If it was me I'd be getting 3 appraisals and averaging.

Then again I'm not a solicitor and don't have a clue but it's something to bear in mind.

Xterminator

for obvious reasons it goes to auction.

otherwise the mum could seel it to her son for 50 quid and give her husband half of that.

tempting as it may sound ....

mickoneill30

Xterminator wrote: »

for obvious reasons it goes to auction.

otherwise the mum could seel it to her son for 50 quid and give her husband half of that.

An estate agent is not going to value it for €50 "for obvious reasons". I did say get 3 appraisals. I assumed people would know that those should come from professionals and not the guys mam etc. I'm not saying sell it without an evaluation.

Loxosceles

You do realise that if they have a Catholic marriage, this entitles your mother to an annulment based on infidelity _and_ sexual orientation, quicker and easier than a divorce or separation. I personally wouldn't care about the orientation, it's the infidelity that would have me steaming.

Personally I'd surreptitiously visit the solicitor and get things legally underway for alimony and division of assets, go to the parish priest/bishop for the annulment and when it goes through, put him out on his ear and change the locks.

CDfm

Wow this is a big problem.

I know you are not going to like what I have to say.

I would say you are overstepping the mark bigtime here and as this is a family situation you are emotionally involved.Its none of your business how your parents accomodate each other in their marriage. None - and I am surprised that he hasnt taken legal action to bar you from the house.

The next thing is on facts . Your father may have male friends but may not be homosexual or your father may have homosexual friends. Have you got gay paranoia or something and have you got any specific info to base your accusations on. How do you know everyone knows -did you do a survey or more than likely do you speak indiscretely about your parents troubled relationship..

Do you have any evidence- have you personally caught him in bed with a man? Or is this just a nasty family breakdown thats gone public.

Now I am not gay -but have gay friends and to the best of my knowledge they dont meet up for clandestine meetings with old guys in unhappy marriages but if a friend is in trouble would be helpful. If I had to face you in my house I would probably run a mile.call the guards and have you removed and go to the courts for a court order.

It appears to me that you have your mind made up and whatever happens and no matter what the truth is that you want the marriage to break up and your Dad to leave.

Your fathers offer to put the house up for auction is a fair one and perhaps his way of telling you that if you want publicity and noteriety you can have it. That would certainly set tongues wagging!

If I were you I would suggest your parents go to family counselling or mediation. The mediator might very well suggest they stop discussing matters with you.

KamiKazi

so, your father is gay?
I think, It's time for you to get over what's commonly referred to as a "phobia" and accept that homosexuality is genetic.


<snip>

Zaph

KamiKazi, if you wish to continue posting on this forum I suggest you refrain from posting that sort of nonsense again in the future.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all the replies folks..

To address some of the points raised.
All the brothers & sisters have flown the nest so it's only my Mum and Dad left at home.
I don't have a problem with my Dad's sexuality. It's his total lack of respect for my mum and the family home that is the issue.
His sexuality does add insult to injury on my Mum's part, as she's more traditional,
but I'm trying to stick to the facts.
If it were women his was bringing back behind my Mum's back there would also be a problem.
Perhaps I should not have included the word gay in the title, I titled the post in haste.
As mentioned above we have lots of evidence of what he's doing.
I assure you there is quite a large community of men in Ireland who do "meet up for clandestine meetings with ... guys in unhappy marriages".
I don't think religion/mass has any bearing on things.

I'm going to ask him to do me a favour & leave, purely because his lack of respect for Mum and the home, is making my mother very unhappy. I will accommodate him elsewhere.
I think he owes it to Mum as she has looked after him well over the years, and reared the kids well while he was not much involved.
The alternative is not going to be pretty.

wicklori

Unregistered wrote: »

I don't think religion/mass has any bearing on things.
quote]
Only reason I mentioned it was in relation to the anulment option which another poster referred to as an out clause for your Mother.

CDfm

OP - I hope you draw back a bit because its really is none of your business - and while I appreciate you want whats best for your mother -the decisions are not yours to make.

If it were to escalate to seperation and divorce handled by lawyers you would see little chage fro E15k each (30K).

I didnt mean to suggest you are homphobic just that your father might if the home situation is and has been unhappy have friends outside the family.

My 10c.

I hope you dont do or say anything you later come to regret.

HarryD

I think it is his business as his mother is very unhappy.
If something was causing your mother to be very unhappy wouldn't you try to do something about it?

JimiTime

CDfm wrote: »

Wow this is a big problem.

I know you are not going to like what I have to say.

I would say you are overstepping the mark bigtime here and as this is a family situation you are emotionally involved.Its none of your business how your parents accomodate each other in their marriage. None - and I am surprised that he hasnt taken legal action to bar you from the house.

The next thing is on facts . Your father may have male friends but may not be homosexual or your father may have homosexual friends. Have you got gay paranoia or something and have you got any specific info to base your accusations on. How do you know everyone knows -did you do a survey or more than likely do you speak indiscretely about your parents troubled relationship..

Do you have any evidence- have you personally caught him in bed with a man? Or is this just a nasty family breakdown thats gone public.

Now I am not gay -but have gay friends and to the best of my knowledge they dont meet up for clandestine meetings with old guys in unhappy marriages but if a friend is in trouble would be helpful. If I had to face you in my house I would probably run a mile.call the guards and have you removed and go to the courts for a court order.

It appears to me that you have your mind made up and whatever happens and no matter what the truth is that you want the marriage to break up and your Dad to leave.

Your fathers offer to put the house up for auction is a fair one and perhaps his way of telling you that if you want publicity and noteriety you can have it. That would certainly set tongues wagging!

If I were you I would suggest your parents go to family counselling or mediation. The mediator might very well suggest they stop discussing matters with you.

How presumptuous and pompous!

CDfm

JimiTime wrote: »

How presumptuous and pompous!

Glad you like it -human nature is to take sides- if the OP is wrong then he is abusing an old man-which I cant condone.

yellowcurl

I think it's clear from what the OP has said that he has plenty of proof that points to what he is saying is in fact true.

From reading his posts, it doesn't sound like he's homophobic, just worried about his mother and the fact that she is unhappy. I think it's fair to say about most of us that if our mothers were unhappy that we'd try to help fix it. He's actually said that he has no problem with his fathers sexual preference, just the way that he treats his mother.

I'd say that you should get various evaluations on the house and come to an agreement about the selling price. Like another poster has said before, his dad could well have the idea of getting someone to bid against the family in order to push the price up because he knows that they want to keep the family home. Independent evaluations will be unbiased on both sides and hopefully make the situation a bit more manageable in that regard.

It's best to consult a solicitor for advice about the financial aspects including the house etc to avoid anyone being misinformed.

I hope your mother is doing ok OP. I know it sounds awful but the best thing she can do is stay in the house because if she even moves in with one of you on a temporary basis, your dad could well say that she has abandoned the family home.

Edit: Also i think his father has already been the one to set "tongues wagging" if neighbours, friends etc already know about his dalliances. Which isn't exactly nice, regardless or gender or sexual orientation.

HarryD

CDfm wrote: »

if the OP is wrong then he is abusing an old man-which I cant condone.

The OP has twice said he has plenty of proof..
what do you want ?

dancingqueen

Hi OP - bit of a sticky situation for you, but your natural instinct to protect your mother is very admirable.

The fact that she is staying in the house while you have proof of your father's "actions" is a very good thing. The stress she is under, will help matters legally (without trying to sound underhanded).

She can prove that her living situation has been made difficult, and that she has no option but to stay there - something might be able to be done for her in that regard.

It is a very hard thing to watch a parent suffer, especially if it's another parent that's causing the hardship and I am well aware. You seem very level headed and it's great that your mother has you to turn to, should she need it.

CDfm

HarryD wrote: »

The OP has twice said he has plenty of proof..
what do you want ?

What I am saying is that there is a line where things go outside our control and we think less clearly and act in ways which might not be legal or ethical.

My sympathies with everyone BTW.

JimiTime

CDfm wrote: »

Glad you like it -human nature is to take sides- if the OP is wrong then he is abusing an old man-which I cant condone.

Hang on a minute! You 'can't condone him abusing an old man'?? How the hell do you get that from his post?? He says his dad is sleeping with other men and treating his mother and the family with contempt! Betraying them all and his marriage vows. You then decide, without any foundation, that he may not know the truth of the matter and proceed to deride him. To quote you:

'If I had to face you in my house I would probably call the guards and have you removed and go to the courts for a court order.

It appears to me that you have your mind made up and whatever happens and no matter what the truth is that you want the marriage to break up and your Dad to leave.
Your fathers offer to put the house up for auction is a fair one and perhaps his way of telling you that if you want publicity and noteriety you can have it. That would certainly set tongues wagging!

If I were you I would suggest your parents go to family counselling or mediation. The mediator might very well suggest they stop discussing matters with you.'

Seriously presumtuous, and very insensitive and just plain bizarre IMO.

Anyway, I've derailed this thread enough.

Fanny Cradock

OP, I realise that you feel your mother shouldn't have to move out of the house because she made a substantially more positive contribution more to the family home than your father ever did. However, would it not be better for both to move on given the state of their marriage? Selling the house might be the best way to avoid a potentially messy financial entanglement and allow both parties to move on - something your poor mother should definitely do.

CDfm

JimiTime wrote: »

Seriously presumtuous, and very insensitive and just plain bizarre IMO.

Its the OPs Mum n Dad and he is an adult -sorry if I was blunt and I didnt mean to be insensitive but just show how things escalate. In my experience you cant expect people to do what you want them to do and the outcome can be very different to what you planned.

If you read my posts you will see I am urging prudence and caution.I hope I havent offended the OP by pointing out that a court may not see things his way and in fact may see things very differently.

By the OPs father talking about a public auction he may well want a quick solution. Or if put under pressure may be preparing for maximum embarrassment.

OP I really wish, you and both your parents the best.

HarryD

CDfm wrote: »

My sympathies with everyone BTW.

Doesn't sound like you're sympathetic to the OP:

CDfm wrote: »

If I had to face you in my house I would probably call the guards and have you removed and go to the courts for a court order.

How can you justify this bizarre comment ?

CDfm

HarryD wrote: »

Doesn't sound like you're sympathetic to the OP:


How can you justify this bizarre comment ?

I should have prefaced it with if I was the OP's Dad or if the OP's Dad were to talk to a social worker,solicitor or guard the advice he would get is ....

I can sympathise with the situation of a gay guy in a straight marriage and unhappy wife and grown up kids. Who wouldn't.

Kimia

CDfm wrote: »

I should have prefaced it with if I was the OP's Dad or if the OP's Dad were to talk to a social worker,solicitor or guard the advice he would get is ....

I can sympathise with the situation of a gay guy in a straight marriage and unhappy wife and grown up kids. Who wouldn't.

Sounds like you are in this situation?

Wibbs

Kimia, I fail to see how this is anyway helpful. Please read the charter of this forum.

CDfm

Kimia wrote: »

Sounds like you are in this situation?

No -I went thro an acrimonious divorce and hate to see anyone pay solictors fees.

My gut feel is that if this did end up in court then the OP may find himself embroilled and while on boards he can happily post that his motives are to support his Mum the courts may take a different view on his treatment of his Dad ie abuse by proxy instigated by the Mum and see him as the victim.

The other issue is ,of course, that his actions could also give rise to a Civil Case between him and his father which could be financially ruinous.

I saw one well intentioned bystander sign over a 400,000 property in a case and that was aside from his and the other sides legal costs. I am not saying it was morally right but a person has a right to their good name and the courts put a value on it - you can be a scut and still have a good reputation which has a value. It wasnt me but I know the family and it was settled out of court.

So I really would like the OP to hope for the fairest outcome and if the marriage is at an end -each get half the value of the property -which is what a court would be likely to award.

But being prudent tells me that if the situation escalates the OP should prepare for the worst possible outcome.

JohnnyNoName

I think that this should not be up here in the first place.

Consult a family solicitor not the general population. At the end of the day all these people's 10c are useless. You need a professional opinion.

That's my 10c

Unregistered

Unregistered wrote: »

My mother and father live together, and are married for >40years.
For the last 10 years my father has been having regular rendezvous's with other men around the country, for you know what.
His feeble attempts at discretion have meant that not only do his family know, but some of my friends, and I'm sure some of our neighbours.
Recently he has been bringing guys to the family home as soon as my mothers back is turned (work or even mass!).
He denies it when confronted, and any conversation on the subject quickly deteriorates into a petty dog fight, with him doing anything to divert away from the issue at hand.
We have lots of proof, not that we need it.
My mother has been living with this going on under her nose and it's naturally upsetting her.
All the continuous deceipt and lies have caused any relationship they had to fizzle out, to the point that there is virtually no communication between them.
My mum still cooked his dinners and washed his clothes but that is soon to stop.
My mum is very unhappy living with him and wants out.
He has refused to do the honourable thing and go, instead suggesting the house be put on the market for public auction.
This has been our family home for many years with all children been reared there, and my mum putting in much energy to make it a good home.
He did not have much input in rearing us.

My mum has reached the end of her tether with this now, and he is not going to change, so something has to be done.
I am going to ask him again to do the honourable thing and go, and we will try and accomodate him elsewhere.
He may refuse, in which case he'll be on his own, I'll buy the house (if he agrees to public auction) and he'll be left to squander half of the proceeds from the family home on his new hobby.
None of us want to see our mum move, she does not want to move, and she should not have to move.

My questions are:
- What do you people think we should do?
- Does anyone know can he be forced to put the house on the market if he refuses to?
(My mum's name is on the house so she is half owner)

Thanks for any advice.

Give him a punch in the face and tell him to cop on.How should he feel he has any right to the house after his disgusting behavior.
Maybe a threat that you will tell his work and everybody else he knows about these affairs will change his mind as to the house selling.

Slutmonkey57b

Loxosceles wrote: »

You do realise that if they have a Catholic marriage, this entitles your mother to an annulment based on infidelity _and_ sexual orientation, quicker and easier than a divorce or separation. I personally wouldn't care about the orientation, it's the infidelity that would have me steaming.

The church has no power to issue a legal annulment and talking to a bishop is precisely of no use whatsoever unless you like listening to a lot of hellfire and damnation nonsense.

www.citizensinformation.ie - as prepared by the fat cats in the civil service will tell you all you need to know.

dudara

Infraction issued to Emerson Fancy Arm for advocating the use of violence.

dudara

HarryD

OP, someone close to me is in the same position as you.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone in the same position.
I reckon there are many more families like this, and it's more common that one might think.