Government gone mad?

janullrich

Is it me or did Martin Cullen tell us that he would never fly economy class when in governemt? Do any of these ministers understand what is happening to the country or do they just not care? The government is still throwing money away (ie next weeks Paddy's day visits which except for a few are not necessery) while more are joining the dole and having a hard time and still on way over-inflated salaries for messing the country up. What are peoples views? Don't know where is the right place to put this btw.

The_Conductor

janullrich wrote: »

Is it me or did Martin Cullen tell us that he would never fly economy class when in governemt? Do any of these ministers understand what is happening to the country or do they just not care? The government is still throwing money away (ie next weeks Paddy's day visits which except for a few are not necessery) while more are joining the dole and having a hard time and still on way over-inflated salaries for messing the country up. What are peoples views? Don't know where is the right place to put this btw.

Soc: Politics is probably the right place for it tbh

Personally I think they should cut the pay for TDs to the average industrial wage, abolish all the allowances and extra payments for chairing committees etc (surely this should be part of their day job anyway), abolish the Seanad, and reduce the number of TDs to say 50. All TDs would be elected from 'lists' and represent their country- not their constituency- and they would get an annual bonus based on performance metrics which would be easily accessible and open to public scrutiny.

Is it going to happen. Hell no. The Irish electorate will re-elect the same shower of **** again at the next election (to be fair to the incumbents- the opposition are a joke too). If anyone thinks politicians have the best interests of Ireland Inc at heart- they are seriously deluded.

markpb

smccarrick wrote: »

Personally I think they should cut the pay for TDs to the average industrial wage

One of the ministers said last week that if the TD pay was cut, we would get a lower quality of TD representing us! I kid you not.

Newsflash ministers: You're a bunch of inept, stupid, money-grabbing, wasteful idiots who don't have a clue how to run a country.

The_Conductor

markpb wrote: »

One of the ministers said last week that if the TD pay was cut, we would get a lower quality of TD representing us! I kid you not.

Newsflash ministers: You're a bunch of inept, stupid, money-grabbing, wasteful idiots who don't have a clue how to run a country.

Lower than the current shower? Were we to devolve all administration to Brussels- it would be a damn sight better than the current shower- not that I'd advocate doing so.

Abolish the Seanad, bring the TD salary to say 40k, abolish all allowances and topup their pay with bonuses based purely on quantifiable results that any member of the public can assess...... Thats what we need.

Sleipnir

I don't think you could abolish all allowances because none of them would put their hand in their own pockets. Now, if we're talking about abolishing unvouched expenses, then that needs to end IMMEDIATELY.

A lower quality of TD? A solicitor in charge of the exchequer and another one in charge of the country? Might as well put a circus ringmaster in charge if you ask me.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

markpb wrote: »

One of the ministers said last week that if the TD pay was cut, we would get a lower quality of TD representing us! I kid you not.

Newsflash ministers: You're a bunch of inept, stupid, money-grabbing, wasteful idiots who don't have a clue how to run a country.

Why would a skilled person accept a job that was going to under pay them? They'd just go elsewhere.

InReality

markpb wrote: »

One of the ministers said last week that if the TD pay was cut, we would get a lower quality of TD representing us! I kid you not.

Newsflash ministers: You're a bunch of inept, stupid, money-grabbing, wasteful idiots who don't have a clue how to run a country.

The high pay = high quality mantra is a joke. Its not as clear cut as that at all.

Xiney

Sean_K wrote: »

Why would a skilled person accept a job that was going to under pay them? They'd just go elsewhere.

And good. They're a useless shower anyway.

pigeonbutler

The pay has to be high enough that people in positions of power are comfortable enough financially so that they are less inclined towards corruption. Same goes for Guards and Judges.

In the US there's much more of a culture of public service being its own reward hence civil servants and politicians receiving relatively modest salaries (most are still comfortable financially).

I think any unvouched allowances should be scrapped immediately. Every other worker in the State has very strict rules about receiving tax free expenses. Oireachtas members should have the same.

storker

smccarrick wrote: »

Lower than the current shower? Were we to devolve all administration to Brussels- it would be a damn sight better than the current shower- not that I'd advocate doing so.

I would - and I'm definitely voting "yes" in the next Lisbon referendum. I voted against it last time, but I've since rediscovered my guiding principle that the less power those jerks in Kildare Street have, the better.

We've come out of the richest period in our history without a pot to piss in. In my opinion, we should keep our fingers crossed for someone even semi-competent to take over because god knows we've proved incapable of governing ourselves.

Stork

the_barfly1

storker wrote: »

I would - and I'm definitely voting "yes" in the next Lisbon referendum. I voted against it last time, but I've since rediscovered my guiding principle that the less power those jerks in Kildare Street have, the better.

And if you remember correctly, those jerks in Kildare street were the very ones that wanted you to vote yes in the first place. One of the major problems that caused the current financial situation was that we handed over all our economic power to a private bank in Luxembourg, who were given a carte blanche to print as much money as they felt fit. Before this we had our own currency which was based on gold reserves in our own central bank - ie - when gold was deposited, promissory notes (a note promising that it can be exchanged for value - gold at the bank) were issued.

Now we're running on a pure speculation based currency which is exactly the reason why inflation has been running so high over the past few years. The Euro, as handy as it is, is only worth as much as the market perception lets it be worth. In reality, its worth as much as monopoly money.

So back to your lisbon treaty, it's the EU that's gotten us into such a mess already. If you also want them to regulate our indirect taxation, go ahead. (i studied the treaty in depth last year, and while no powers of direct taxation were going to be conferred under the treaty, all indirect taxation was up for grabs.)

markpb

Sean_K wrote: »

Why would a skilled person accept a job that was going to under pay them? They'd just go elsewhere.

Can you honestly, hand on heart, tell me you believe our TDs are good at their job?

How do other countries get by? The Prime Minister of the UK, the President of the US pay less than we pay our Taoiseach? Are they somehow getting "lower quality" leaders than us?

the_barfly1 wrote: »

Now we're running on a pure speculation based currency which is exactly the reason why inflation has been running so high over the past few years.

You're telling me our rising inflation has had nothing to do with the huge rise in property prices, the increases in interest rates or the increase in the minimum wage?

Rod & Reel

aye there a bunch of **** yes. but in all fairness would u see fit to input Enda in power. he is already drunk on what power hes got imagine him in the main seat. he is oppesed to every detail put foward by the goverment. hell set on an election because he knows the people want a change. (we do enda want a F***ing change just not a F***ing idiot in charge of the change.

Eamaonn and his Girl are no better. there going to do this that and thee other. they do F*** all only to say that the super rich are getting away with paying no tax. in therory this true in reality would the tax the take from them make a blind C*** if a difference to the hole we're in. NO. but they like to pray on weekness and at the moment there is a lot of weekness about and by say that there going to tax the super rich sounds good to the poor bastards who have lost there jobs recently.

Cant have mar lou and gerry for obvios reasons most notably of late gerry not condeming the brutal cowardly murder of two chaps in the north saturday night. (havent heard todays news yet on last nights killing)

Pds are all but dead in the water so no there too.

so people we have the Greens. we could do worse but by going by what we have seen over the past while i cant see how.

what say ye






So i think what is left and bite my balls off for this if u like but we're left with little choice other than Greens. yes there a bunch of whale saving dolphin huggers but we need a change and thats a change

Thomas_S_Hunterson

markpb wrote: »

Can you honestly, hand on heart, tell me you believe our TDs are good at their job?

I didn't say that. I'm saying that slashing their salary is not the answer.

Obviously the expense fiasco needs to be addressed, but if you want good people, you have to pay for them. I have no time for politicians but it is a job and it needs to be done well. We need to look at other countries and find out what they are doing right that we re not and see if it works for us.

markpb

Sean_K wrote: »

I didn't say that. I'm saying that slashing their salary is not the answer. Obviously the expense fiasco needs to be addressed, but if you want good people, you have to pay for them.

You're not making any sense. You said that we can't lower the salary because we'll get worse TDs. But the salary is very, very high (internationally) and we have useless TDs. How does that logic stand up? If we paid them even more, would we finally get TDs who have a clue?

the_syco

Sean_K wrote: »

Why would a skilled person accept a job that was going to under pay them? They'd just go elsewhere.

That would stop the muppets that would not go for the job just for the money, but rather people who want to improve the country.

pigeonbutler wrote: »

The pay has to be high enough that people in positions of power are comfortable enough financially so that they are less inclined towards corruption.

The pay is higher than the president of the USA. And they're still becoming corrupt.

Xiney

I found this article a couple of weeks ago and just went looking for it again now.

The Human Cost of Broken Political Systems

It explains why dominant party systems don't attract competent politicians.

the_barfly1

markpb wrote: »

You're telling me our rising inflation has had nothing to do with the huge rise in property prices, the increases in interest rates or the increase in the minimum wage?

All knock on effects of the currency problem my friend. Look at it like this - for every euro thats created and put into circulation - its devaluing every other euro in circulation because theres no tangible substance giving it any value. Thats WHY everybody needed more money and property skyrocketed.
It sounds complicated but it isnt when you look at the big picture.

The problem is that our money isnt worth anything, except the value we place on it :pac:

storker

the_barfly1 wrote: »

And if you remember correctly, those jerks in Kildare street were the very ones that wanted you to vote yes in the first place.

For different reasons, perhaps, but that's irrelevent.

One of the major problems that caused the current financial situation was that we handed over all our economic power to a private bank in Luxembourg, who were given a carte blanche to print as much money as they felt fit. Before this we had our own currency which was based on gold reserves in our own central bank - ie - when gold was deposited, promissory notes (a note promising that it can be exchanged for value - gold at the bank) were issued.

Now we're running on a pure speculation based currency which is exactly the reason why inflation has been running so high over the past few years. The Euro, as handy as it is, is only worth as much as the market perception lets it be worth. In reality, its worth as much as monopoly money.

So back to your lisbon treaty, it's the EU that's gotten us into such a mess already.

Rubbish. I eagerly await your explanation of how the EU made such a hames of our public finances and how the EU squandered the rewards of the richest period in the state's history.

This was caused by dickheads in the banks and dickheads in goverment. Only the most myopic europhobe could place the blame for the current state of affairs on the EU.

If you also want them to regulate our indirect taxation, go ahead. (i studied the treaty in depth last year, and while no powers of direct taxation were going to be conferred under the treaty, all indirect taxation was up for grabs.)

Sounds fine to me, seeing as as our homegrown political halfwits have amply demonstrated that they don't know how to do taxation either.

Stork

the_syco

Xiney wrote: »

The Human Cost of Broken Political Systems

It explains why dominant party systems don't attract competent politicians.

Explains a lot. If it's anything to go by, we're f**ked unless US companies bail us out, by creating more jobs.

The_Conductor

There was a guy from CORI nattering on Radio One yesterday morning about how we have to continue to protect the poor in society- and how no spending on social programmes should be cut- that we should instead hike our taxes massively to pay for these social programmes.......

This guy addressed the Fianna Fail Ard Fheis two years running.......

Our direct taxation rates may not be that high- but by god, we get slaughtered in indirect taxation. I have a decent job, earn above the average industrial wage etc- yet were I to go on the dole, have a medical card and mortgage assistance- my discretionary spending would actually be around Euro a week better off. Thats what that asshole wants to protect.

Totally aside from the redundancies and job losses that while foreseeable, are in no means the fault of those who lost the jobs- there is very little incentive for those who are less inclined, to get out and seek employment when conditions improve. Why would they?

We need a total reform from the top down- there is no reason public expenditure couldn't fall 30-40%, mitigating the need to significantly raise direct taxation.

Our poor little country is in a mess.......

the_barfly1

storker wrote: »

Rubbish. I eagerly await your explanation of how the EU made such a hames of our public finances and how the EU squandered the rewards of the richest period in the state's history.

This was caused by dickheads in the banks and dickheads in goverment. Only the most myopic europhobe could place the blame for the current state of affairs on the EU.

Sorry Stork, but I'm not a Europhobe. The problem lies in the banks, correct. But you have to go to the very top to get to the root cause, which is the European Central bank. I really don't have time to get into the ins and outs of Fractional Reserve Banking right now, but in a nutshell - their power to create money from thin air with nothing to back it up caused the huge inflation we've seen over the past decade. What the dickheads in government didn't do was cop the **** on to what was going on, or maybe even just ignored it while they were having their pockets lined.
I'm sorry that you had to resort to insults ("myopic europhobe") to challenge my point, but I assure you, if you do a little bit of your own digging you'll see that what i'm saying is true.
A good place to start is looking into some old Irish currency legislation, where its clearly stated what the reao value of an old punt was, then try to find out what a euro is worth.

All the best,
Barfly

janullrich

Am I right in what I am seeing? TD's are going to get 3,000 euros extra per year?? The useless feckers (majority of them) get far too much as it is.