Driving to Scotland a few questions

StonedParadoX · 09-03-2009 4:39pm #1

Right i did a search for this question already and i didnt find anything .. so hopefully this belongs here and hasnt been asked before i apologize in advance

Myself and a Friend are going to Scotland next week and i have a few questions regarding provisional licenses and so on

anyway im on a provisional and my american friend has a full license but is not yet insured but CAN be which isnt a problem.
Basically what i'd like to know is can I drive to Northen ireland and then get the ferry and drive in scotland on my provisional or does my mate have to do all the driving.

What are the cops like in scotland will they care if im stopped with a provisional?

L1011 · 09-03-2009 4:41pm

Your provisional is only valid in the Republic of Ireland - this is written on the front of the licence.

If you are stopped driving on a provisional in the North you generally get an extremely stern talking to and are directed to the nearest part of the border. In Scotland, expect to get arrested for driving without a licence.

StonedParadoX · 09-03-2009 4:47pm

****! are you serious?

so risking it for a biscuit is seriously NOT a good idea?

has anyone else done this?

keefg · 09-03-2009 4:51pm

MYOB wrote: »

In Scotland, expect to get arrested for driving without a licence.

Not only that but your car will be impounded and if you do not pay to recover it then it will be destroyed.

L1011 · 09-03-2009 4:51pm

Northern Ireland I risked it myself many times*. Wouldn't even try getting on the ferry in Larne though. You're not licenced and you're probably not insured either and the various Scottish police forces won't take kindly to that.

*I'm fully licenced now and actually sitting 20 feet away from my Irish registered car in the UK before anyone jumps me for breaking the law still

keefg · 09-03-2009 4:54pm

StonedParadoX wrote: »

so risking it for a biscuit is seriously NOT a good idea?

:D You could say that!

:D

The cops in the UK will not let you off with a warning, in the UK if your licence is invalid then your insurance is automatically null & void. You will lose your car on the spot.

StonedParadoX · 09-03-2009 4:55pm

crikey!!!..

and i was looking forward to driving in scotland. This is seriously ****ing bad news.

i wonder what police are like for bribes

i guess my mate will have to drive.

keefg · 09-03-2009 4:59pm

StonedParadoX wrote: »

i guess my mate will have to drive.

Does your mate have a full Irish licence? If so, then you will have no problem.

If he has an American licence though you may have to check with your insurance about him driving "abroad" just to be safe, like I said if the UK have any doubts about you or your friend being legit on the road then they will nick you until you can prove otherwise.

Alun · 09-03-2009 5:02pm

StonedParadoX wrote: »

crikey!!!..

and i was looking forward to driving in scotland. This is seriously ****ing bad news. .

Yes, rather surprisingly the police in the UK, and pretty much everywhere else except here, actually enforce the law, rather than just the bits they feel like enforcing.

keefg · 09-03-2009 5:04pm

Alun wrote: »

Yes, rather surprisingly the police in the UK, and pretty much everywhere else except here, actually enforce the law, rather than just the bits they feel like enforcing.

LOL

I know, it's shocking isn't it? Who do they think they are?

StonedParadoX · 09-03-2009 5:55pm

hah!.. ok
hmm..

im about 60% sure now.. shes 100% sure she can driver overseas's

she was in the north in a hired car for a week a few weeks back and there was no problems.

lads thank you so much for this info. i really wanted to drive .. maybe i should get a police radar scanner and jump in the back superman bond tom cruise style any time a cop is around
If the movies can do it .. I CAN DO IT!

keefg · 09-03-2009 5:59pm

StonedParadoX wrote: »

she was in the north in a hired car for a week a few weeks back and there was no problems.

Driving a hire car may be different (insurance wise) than driving a friends car, check with your insurance company.

StonedParadoX wrote: »

If the movies can do it .. I CAN DO IT!

I love that kind of positive thinking

A Dub in Glasgo · 09-03-2009 8:36pm

Please tell me the route you are taking so that I can avoid the possibility of being hit by someone whith no licence or insurance!

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 10:17am

StonedParadoX wrote: »

hah!.. ok
hmm..

im about 60% sure now.. shes 100% sure she can driver overseas's

she was in the north in a hired car for a week a few weeks back and there was no problems.

lads thank you so much for this info. i really wanted to drive .. maybe i should get a police radar scanner and jump in the back superman bond tom cruise style any time a cop is around
If the movies can do it .. I CAN DO IT!

If you've know somebody in Britain who'll let you use their address, you could apply for a British provisional licence. All you need to do is send in the right form, some ID (your Irish passport will do), the fee (£50.00) and photographs.

If you're driving on a British provisional you'll need to be:

A. insured (if you get a British provisional, get yourself put on a friend's British insurance policy as a named driver with open insurance, if that's possible)

B. accompanied at all times by someone over 21 who's had a full licence (doesn't have to be a British licence - any foreign licence that's recognised in Britain will do) for at least 3 years

C. have L-plates displayed on the car you're driving.

If you drive on a provisional without meeting those conditions, your insurance is invalid and you'll be driving without a proper licence and no insurance.

If you're caught driving uninsured and without a licence, the car you're driving can be seized and destroyed!

loyatemu · 10-03-2009 10:31am

do the test - if your not capable of passing the test then you certainly shouldn't be considering driving hundreds of miles across international borders.

Alun · 10-03-2009 10:58am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If you've know somebody in Britain who'll let you use their address, you could apply for a British provisional licence.

In other words you're trying to get him to commit fraud. "Knowing someone in country X" is not a valid legal reason for applying for a driving licence in that country.

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 11:51am

Alun wrote: »

In other words you're trying to get him to commit fraud. "Knowing someone in country X" is not a valid legal reason for applying for a driving licence in that country.

If the alternative is that he drives with no licence or insurance then I think that applying for a British provisional and drives while accompanied and insured is the lesser of two evils.

And please keep your holier than thou attitude to yourself in future.

Alun · 10-03-2009 11:54am

marmurr1916 wrote: »

If the alternative is that he drives with no licence or insurance then I think that applying for a British provisional and drives while accompanied and insured is the lesser of two evils.

They're equally as invalid, and therefore equally illegal. A British Provisional licence obtained fraudulently is not a valid licence for anyone, even a British resident.

And please keep your holier than thou attitude to yourself in future.

Reported.

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 12:20pm

Alun wrote: »

Reported.

Meaning what? You're trying to get me banned?

Alun · 10-03-2009 12:22pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Meaning what? You're trying to get me banned?

It's a general rule here on boards to "attack the post, not the poster". I've just reported your post for that reason. It's up to the mods what they do about it, if anything.

tbh · 10-03-2009 12:58pm

Alun wrote: »

It's a general rule here on boards to "attack the post, not the poster". I've just reported your post for that reason. It's up to the mods what they do about it, if anything.

why didn't you just report it? why did you have to tell him you reported it? that's trolling in my opinion, but my opinion doesn't count here.

Anyway.

back on topic, is there a requirement that the OP be resident or a citizen of the UK to get a provisional license from there? If they choose to just allow anyone who fits the requirements to get a license, isn't that their lookout? OP, I'd say once you cross the border without a full license your insurance would be invalid anyway. You could try to hire a car with your American mate as the hirer, but ask would your provisioninal (EI or UK) license cover you - if it doesn't, and it probably won't - then don't risk it. You'll see a LOT more patrols in the UK that you would here.

Alun · 10-03-2009 1:12pm

tbh wrote: »

back on topic, is there a requirement that the OP be resident or a citizen of the UK to get a provisional license from there? If they choose to just allow anyone who fits the requirements to get a license, isn't that their lookout?

Not really. By filling in the application form and signing it then you are stating that all the details on it (including, but not limited to, the address) are correct. If they're not, even if they accept it, then you're obtaining a licence fraudulently, end of. The argument of "well you accepted my application" won't hold a drop of water in court. In any case, I'm pretty sure that being resident in the UK, as opposed to merely knowing someone who lives there which probably covers most of the population here, is a requirement somewhere. Heck, I know someone who lives in most countries in the EU ... that doesn't mean I can apply for a driving licence there.

tbh · 10-03-2009 1:36pm

Alun wrote: »

Not really. By filling in the application form and signing it then you are stating that all the details on it (including, but not limited to, the address) are correct. If they're not, even if they accept it, then you're obtaining a licence fraudulently, end of. The argument of "well you accepted my application" won't hold a drop of water in court. In any case, I'm pretty sure that being resident in the UK, as opposed to merely knowing someone who lives there which probably covers most of the population here, is a requirement somewhere. Heck, I know someone who lives in most countries in the EU ... that doesn't mean I can apply for a driving licence there.

ok so there is a rule that says that you must be resident in the UK to apply so? I'm just curious more than anything really.

znv6i3h7kqf9ys · 10-03-2009 1:46pm

1 Thing that annoys me about driving in Scotland is the feckin speed cameras. They are everywhere. Buy a Tom Tom as that will warn you when they are coming up. Also there is new legislation in the uk to fine foreign drivers on the spot. If you can't pay they will take your car

Alun · 10-03-2009 1:49pm

tbh wrote: »

ok so there is a rule that says that you must be resident in the UK to apply so? I'm just curious more than anything really.

It would be quite frankly ridiculous if there wasn't, don't you agree?

Here you go ...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Motoringtransactions/BeforeyouapplyA/DG_10032690

You need a UK passport too. (EDIT: ... or other form of ID)

tbh · 10-03-2009 1:53pm

Alun wrote: »

It would be quite frankly ridiculous if there wasn't, don't you agree?

Here you go ...

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/Motoringtransactions/BeforeyouapplyA/DG_10032690

You need a UK passport too.

yeah - it probably would, but I could think of a couple of exceptions where you might be staying in the UK for a time and would want to apply. thanks for the link tho, interesting.

IIMII · 10-03-2009 1:57pm

If you have any friends north of the border, use their address. The border has to be useful for something, I suppose.

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Meaning what? You're trying to get me banned?

Banned for a week.

Alun · 10-03-2009 2:00pm

On the passport thing, I've just noted that other forms of ID are also accepted (thought that was a bit odd myself), so if you were not a British citizen but still UK resident you could still apply. Not sure what exactly their criteria are for determining residency, but living there for more than 183 days a year and/or at least paying tax there would be a start I'd imagine.

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 5:31pm

Alun wrote: »

On the passport thing, I've just noted that other forms of ID are also accepted (thought that was a bit odd myself), so if you were not a British citizen but still UK resident you could still apply. Not sure what exactly their criteria are for determining residency, but living there for more than 183 days a year and/or at least paying tax there would be a start I'd imagine.

But it doesn't say, so in theory someone who was resident for a day or a week could get a UK provisional without committing any fraud.

Edit: unlikely that you'd have to be a taxpayer. I doubt that most 17 year olds getting their first provisionals would be taxpayers.

Stark · 10-03-2009 5:49pm

Is it not the law in the UK that you have to keep the address on your license current and accurate? Therefore it's an invalid license if you're not living at the address specified.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-03-2009 6:08pm

Otto Faithful Dragon wrote: »

1 Thing that annoys me about driving in Scotland is the feckin speed cameras. They are everywhere. Buy a Tom Tom as that will warn you when they are coming up.

I especially like the long stretch of average speed cameras on the A77 that most people will encounter if they get the ferry to Stranraer

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 6:32pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I especially like the long stretch of average speed cameras on the A77 that most people will encounter if they get the ferry to Stranraer

Which of course are no detterent for people driving ROI registered vehicles...

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 6:34pm

Stark wrote: »

Is it not the law in the UK that you have to keep the address on your license current and accurate? Therefore it's an invalid license if you're not living at the address specified.

A law which I know is not enforced. Friends of mine from Britain have had the same addresses on their licences for years, despite moving several times.

They've never been pulled up on it by anybody.

A Dub in Glasgo · 10-03-2009 6:59pm

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Which of course are no detterent for people driving ROI registered vehicles...

As the A77 is classed as an accident blackspot road, the traffic police still patrol the road and not rely solely on the average speed camera system. Have a look at this for those who think there will be no consequences.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5854132.ece

marmurr1916 · 10-03-2009 7:29pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

As the A77 is classed as an accident blackspot road, the traffic police still patrol the road and not rely solely on the average speed camera system. Have a look at this for those who think there will be no consequences.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5854132.ece

Well that's something new. I think people with foreign registered cars caught on speed-cameras in the UK have been pretty safe up til now.

L1011 · 10-03-2009 11:51pm

Stark wrote: »

Is it not the law in the UK that you have to keep the address on your license current and accurate? Therefore it's an invalid license if you're not living at the address specified.

Its the law in Ireland too. Not enforced here or there.

Stark · 10-03-2009 11:56pm

Don't think it's law in Ireland.

IIMII · 11-03-2009 12:04am

Stark wrote: »

Therefore it's an invalid license if you're not living at the address specified.

I wouldn't say that would make your licence invalid

L1011 · 11-03-2009 12:25am

Stark wrote: »

Don't think it's law in Ireland.

It is. Came up on Motors about three months ago if you want to search.

Stark · 11-03-2009 9:12am

While you are not required by law to change your driving licence if you change address, it is advisable nonetheless.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driver-licensing/full_driving_licence

Unless there's been a change to the law in the meantime...

Carawaystick · 11-03-2009 10:09am

Stark wrote: »

Is it not the law in the UK that you have to keep the address on your license current and accurate? Therefore it's an invalid license if you're not living at the address specified.

No. Any EU license is valid anywhere in the EU til it's expiry date. Eu law trumps national law on this.

Stark · 11-03-2009 10:23am

EU law only applies to full driving licenses though. Provisional licenses and learner permits aren't recognised outside the country in which they're issued.

Victor · 11-03-2009 10:37am

Can we chill out and leave the "applying for a driving licence so I can visit for the weekend" concept alone?

L1011 · 11-03-2009 8:21pm

Stark wrote: »

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/travel-and-recreation/motoring-1/driver-licensing/full_driving_licence

Unless there's been a change to the law in the meantime...

Nearly sure it was the RTA 2006 that updated it; that site while very informative isn't infallible. I'll go try find either the post that quoted the act/SI or the actual act/SI later...

Driving to Scotland a few questions

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