Assertiveness, my problems with it

Affable

I know logically, and according to most opinion, that 'assertiveness'(broad concept) is better than passive-aggressiveness. I've been told I do possess 'innate' (presence/voice wise etc) assertiveness.

But however practical it might be, I can't resist falling into alternation between thoughtful detachment, observing from the outside, (not reacting to situation in a moderated, assertive way, which would be more effective, ie passivity) and then 'revenge' for conflict, ie huge bursts of spite/abrasiveness when I have a conflict. I know it's more frowned upon, but I can't help thinking this is just part of our primal, 'gutter' nature and 'assertiveness' is too sanitised. I like my moods to sway. Some say assertiveness means people know where they are but then unpredictability increases power right?
Also, it's become such a popular thing now, particularly amongst women, and it seems so self-conscious. Now you can't offer any self-deprecation, self-justification, or any other more natural mannerism to your innate assertiveness without it being analysed or taken literally as not assertive.
The result is another slightly unattractive way in whcih America is influencing our culture too much. Personally I think we get so much influence from them now it's very hard to hang on to our culture.

Anyway, I was having a think today, and wondered what you all think about all or any of the above?

Affable

I should elaborate. I was really asking whether any of you relate to those views, share any of theose problems, and whether you feel it needs addressing, if so how would you/or did you in your case?

Affable

On top of that, there is more to my current issue and trauma, but I don't wanna post another thread and stack it up. It's nother toughie but if anyone can shed any light on any of these difficulties I ahve it would be grateful. I feel so much on the brink of having a lot going for me yet these obscure things seem to torment me at times.

I know it makes sense to play to my own strengths in life. But I can't help feeling mystified by this inability to understand thinking of others and suspicion of it.

When people 'think of others' ,even though it can have upsides, more often than not I see it as mildly sinister and manipulative, perhaps also as I've been told, and I know I am, incapable of it myself. Why that is, I don't know.

It's like they're going to use it as a tool of control, observe how people(in this case usually me) are and are doing and make comments/judgements on it.
In order to ascertain control-it's even worse wrapped up as decency thats false for self-serving purposes. So why do other people have this mythical ability to think of others and offer comment/observe and I don't have it?
It's a mystery what gives them the conceit to judge. It's like they always assume the lead and I feel like a puppet almost being directed cos they have the audacity to judge. I will never feel like leader this way but I don't want to compromise my integrity.

Same as on a football field, some quiet guy runs his arse off but doesnt defend his brilliance or talent, other guys got the conceit to lead and everyone does what he wants. I feel the same as a footballer as I do in life. Same with Politics/Academia etc, some guy might be brilliant but another guy might benefit from others efforts, defend his record, get others doing stuff etc. It's one of the central quandrys of my life.

As I say, about the only solution I've come up with is to play to my own strengths, Whcih is use my abilities and carry on as an introvert, and not worry about the exact objective reality, choose to percieve things as good and ignore these worries, and that will give me a potencty/effectiveness of my own. But I can't help feeling I'm missing something conceptually, and not quite getting the satisfaction I should.

Is my suspicion warranted?
Have I got it this mess just by overthinking?
Or is something really up, am I lacking savvy?

Darragh29

I think you and I have one thing in common, we "think" too much!

Affable

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think you and I have one thing in common, we "think" too much!

Yeah I know, some of the insights from being that way are useful, but in other senses you miss out on progressing/experiencing stuff.

Affable

Linked to this is that I do show some anger publicly but have a lot repressed that comes back in bad memories when I'm alone.

LegacyUser

Could be you don't feel in control of your life/destiny. You make excellent observations on how people tend to organize themselves, conceited individuals placing themselves in positions of authority through appeal to the self interest of others. I also experience anger at the way people are so accepting of hierarchy and those who propagate it through seeking power. This feeling I think comes from the fact that when I'm not pre-occupied with what I want to do, I feel a loss of control so I become distracted by my environment. It is a sad state of affairs that one is strongly compelled to enter some part of the rat race because that is what people accept though if you find a suitable niche I think those problems could dissipate somewhat.

Affable

iste345356 wrote: »

Could be you don't feel in control of your life/destiny. You make excellent observations on how people tend to organize themselves, conceited individuals placing themselves in positions of authority through appeal to the self interest of others. I also experience anger at the way people are so accepting of hierarchy and those who propagate it through seeking power. This feeling I think comes from the fact that when I'm not pre-occupied with what I want to do, I feel a loss of control so I become distracted by my environment. It is a sad state of affairs that one is strongly compelled to enter some part of the rat race because that is what people accept though if you find a suitable niche I think those problems could dissipate somewhat.

It might be something to do with too much time to think, maybe a loss of a locus of control as you suggest. Maybe productivity and satisfaction would help but thats hard to attain. I just dont want to feell ike others are always pulling strings.

dreamlogic

Affable wrote: »

It's like they're going to use it as a tool of control, observe how people(in this case usually me) are and are doing and make comments/judgements on it.
In order to ascertain control-it's even worse wrapped up as decency thats false for self-serving purposes. So why do other people have this mythical ability to think of others and offer comment/observe and I don't have it?
It's a mystery what gives them the conceit to judge. It's like they always assume the lead and I feel like a puppet almost being directed cos they have the audacity to judge. I will never feel like leader this way but I don't want to compromise my integrity.

The main impression I get is that you are conflicted between being content with how you handle things currently versus wanting to 'fit in' to some perceived normal way of behaving..Are you talking about an office/work environment? If so and if you are unhappy, it might be an idea to start considering a job/career change..
Also wondering if you are you currently in a role requiring 'leadership'? If not, is this where you want your career to progress? And if so, why?
Sorry if I am off the mark but your post is a bit general and I think you need to be more specific about the questions you ask yourself in order to be able to arrive at answers.

and whether you feel it needs addressing

It is difficult to say without knowing what you actually want from the situation.
Would you say the problem is that you are uncomfortable in meetings/groups? Are you more at ease when communicating one-to-one?

Affable

dreamlogic wrote: »

The main impression I get is that you are conflicted between being content with how you handle things currently versus wanting to 'fit in' to some perceived normal way of behaving..Are you talking about an office/work environment? If so and if you are unhappy, it might be an idea to start considering a job/career change..
Also wondering if you are you currently in a role requiring 'leadership'? If not, is this where you want your career to progress? And if so, why?
Sorry if I am off the mark but your post is a bit general and I think you need to be more specific about the questions you ask yourself in order to be able to arrive at answers.

It is difficult to say without knowing what you actually want from the situation.
Would you say the problem is that you are uncomfortable in meetings/groups? Are you more at ease when communicating one-to-one?

It's not wanting to fit in, tbh I couldn't care two hoots about that. It's wanting to feel empowered. Maybe I am moreso than I think when I play to my strengths, but, as I say, I have this incapability of thinking of others, absorbed as I am in my own dreams(Parents thought I had aspergers at one point, established this wasn't the case, but had some aspects of it, so you get some idea) . So when more outwardly focused people are that way, almost offering guidance or thinking of my situation, I'm deeply suspicious of it and their motives, have been ever since school. It's like why isn't their mind on something more noble than being nosey?. I almost hate being included in a 'community', which some people seem to love, and feel bound down completely by it and judged. I loved the brief time I spent in London and it's anonymity for this reason.
I've always had this problem that whether I am reflective and do not much, or even if I take considerable action and responsibility, I can't feel subjectively that I'm takin the lead, it's always like someone else is dictating, wanting to be impressed or wanting me to prove something.
I don't want to waste my energies and efforts through some naive misunderstanding so it's still like someone else is always the arbiter and has control. I want to be the arbiter. I'm quite power concerned. It's been enough to put me off really pursuing dreams as despite being pretty talented, I feel like I never attain the satisfaction I deserve, other people are still too bumptious, and thinking they can pull my strings, and I feel am I treading water here?
If I talk to some guy on the internet and he wants to meet again, it's like 'any progress in any regards' or i get a better job 'must be a relief' from one friend or 'Everyone's looking for that relationship and kids, theres all these foreign students here you could meet' (Argh I hate that stop putting me in a position of servility and needing guidance:(!), or I have a girl I like 'You're not gonna have much to offer her' says sis. Stop offering observations when I have the good manners not to do it, and the good manners not to patronise people, and yet for my pains I get percieved as cold or mean. Perverse it seems to me.

I do have some affection people that is sincere when it comes through, but most times I'm a cynic and just want to learn to play people as I don't believe their sincerity.
That's the best way I can explain it.

Affable

This is now a two issue thread, so if anyone has help on the first issue also it'd be most appreciated.

LegacyUser

Firstly, the language used in your monologues seem to be very contrived and difficult to understand. What exactly are you looking for help with?

Secondly, stop defining and judging other people. Keep your mind out of their mind, their thoughts out of your thoughts. There is absolutely no way you can know what other people are thinking or the motivation for any action anyone does.

Thirdly, stop defining yourself. Freedom is coming to an understanding that people act, think, and do as they wish. Freedom is an understanding that you have the exact same power. Reality is as it is, always. If you have an issue with reality, then in terms of personal suffering - you, my friend, have a big problem.

Fourthly, life happens. Start living from moment to moment, bring mindfulness into your life. Life is a serious of experiences to be lived -- and they need not be all interpreted.

Lastly and most importantly, to summarise all these points:
Stop investing in thoughts that are outside yourself, and outside your control. Be skillfull in your internal life as well as your external.

Good luck!

Affable

someadvice wrote: »

Firstly, the language used in your monologues seem to be very contrived and difficult to understand. What exactly are you looking for help with?

Secondly, stop defining and judging other people. Keep your mind out of their mind, their thoughts out of your thoughts. There is absolutely no way you can know what other people are thinking or the motivation for any action anyone does.

Thirdly, stop defining yourself. Freedom is coming to an understanding that people act, think, and do as they wish. Freedom is an understanding that you have the exact same power. Reality is as it is, always. If you have an issue with reality, then in terms of personal suffering - you, my friend, have a big problem.

Fourthly, life happens. Start living from moment to moment, bring mindfulness into your life. Life is a serious of experiences to be lived -- and they need not be all interpreted.

Lastly and most importantly, to summarise all these points:
Stop investing in thoughts that are outside yourself, and outside your control. Be skillfull in your internal life as well as your external.

Good luck!

I guess I can't know what they're motives are you're right. But I can't help thinking that my cast of mind makes me profoundly misunderstood, call me egotistical but I think I have a unique mind, and people think I need help or something. I hate that. But you're right I probably should let go a bit and I'd have more fun. Probably do attain some valuable control and enrich my life through insights and thinking, but overdo it and i'll go mad and not enjoy anything. But I do coem back to this question of why I am unable to comment on anybody or be controlling or judge. I just can't bring myself to do it. I've never understood social politics, the social group, which is why I'm much more comfortable on my own. I'd love a great girl to be with but this is harder to find outside the group dynamic.

The language wasn't meant to be contrived. It was my best attempt to reflect what's going on in my head.

Affable

I know theres a whole lot to address here, but just one part of it is fine if that's all you want to post.

Affable

Anyone else? I'm kinda confused.

LegacyUser

Affable wrote: »

Anyone else? I'm kinda confused.

There are trained professionals that are willing to listen to you, give advice, and provide strategies for your personal issues. You would be wise to seek counsel from one of them rather than on public fora.