'Cultural differences'

Living abroad at the moment, as I have done many times, I'm having a lot of problems with my flatmate. I should start by saying I've lived in 8-10 flatshares and never had a real problem before. The last few places I lived in Dublin they were begging me not to go and took ages to find a suitable replacement - not tooting my own horn, but to make it clear that I'm generally considered a very good flatmate. I'm not loud, not particularly messy, don't hog the TV, basically don't make myself a nuisance and try to stay out of peoples' way. Living in Belgium now and I seem to annoy the hell out of my flatmate. When I come into the place, I say hello and usually ask how her day was, or some other small talk. Got up this morning, said good morning and asked was she out last night to which she got annoyed and said she felt like I was interrogating her? :eek: It was polite small talk ffs! I've never NOT been asked that question in Dublin when I met a flatmate over the weekend. I had a similar issue when I worked in Spain as an au pair, the mother would say they were going out for the day and I asked 'ah very nice, where are you heading?' and she accused me of being nosy and interrogating! Now in my mind this is a very twisted and quite nasty logic - taking a polite interest in someone is considered nosy? I've always been brought up to ask people about themselves and not go on about myself. Is this an Irish thing? I'd much rather have a polite little chat upon meeting in the kitchen than awkward silence. I feel it's ignorant not to talk. And I'd be a quite type myself and keep to myself, but I believe not making an effort is rude.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing? I've lived in a lot of places and am three nationalities myself, so I'm not some ignorant buffoon. This exchange this morning has left me extremely homesick. As much as Dublin has been annoying me recently, I miss being able to have a 2 minute chat with a flatmate without getting my head bitten off

nyarlothothep

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

samhail

im the opposite to nyar, you talk to people to get more cultured and experience more. i dont know many belgium people so i wont generalise
id move outta there. give your notice when she comes home today.

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

I do understand that, as I said, I'm a quiet and private person myself. But you really think it's normal to say NOTHING to someone you live with? If you don't want to discuss your life, you just say 'ah I'm grand thanks' or 'not up to much at the minute' and change the topic. I'd consider that the bare minimum of interaction when you live with someone, if I couldn't manage that, I'd get my own place. I don't see how saying 'morning, did ya head out last night?' is 'talking at every opportunity' if that's ALL you say, all day! :eek:

Caoimhín

It is easy enough to make small talk without even asking a question. Maybe you could just test the water with this person when you meet them first thing. Comment on the weather or say that you feel good today, that way you are leaving the door open for comment. If your flatmate doesnt like to chat then leave it at that.

I was once told by an African friend of mine that some Africans in Ireland find it uncomfortable when an irish person asks "where are you from?". To me that question is one of the first things that comes naturally when talking to anyone, irish or not.

Also, i have found myself, that many Asians tend to stand a little too close to me than i find comfortable. I read somewhere that this is not that unusual as the area around ones "comfort/personal space" is smaller in many Asian countries.

So yes, there are little quirks and cultural/personality differences that people might find a little unusual in each other.

bluecell99

Sounds like a thick ignormus and you should hand in your notice today.You are perfectly normal.people who object to small talk and polite conversation are abnormal.Dont be put off or change yourself for some looper.Move on.

Dutchie_in_DUB

I am myself a Dutch person living in Dublin. And have to say Irish people are very chatty and like to know things. This can be taken as being nosy or interrogative. I have learned that this is just that they are interested or even like to make small talk. Knowing the Belgian culture a bit, they are quite stand-off-ish (if this is a word) and seem to be not that chatty as you irish yourselves. My advise is, definitely do NOT move out or even think that all Belgians or foreigners are ignorant. Cause by moving away from a beautiful country like Belgian would show ignorance, in my idea. Maybe sit her down and explain and have a sort of chat with her to get to know her. By explaining things of your culture or getting to know people, many hurdles can be overcome. Give it time and if she is still not warming up to you, well then it could just be the fact that you two just not agree. This could just be a personal thing and has nothing to do with you or her, that just happens.
Good luck in Belgium and enjoy being there. Life is different there, but has many great things. Give it a shot! And respect to you for leaving the security of you own country and culture, and being willing to get to know what is outside of your beautiful island.

neuro-praxis

I have had the same experience with some German people. I was being generally chatty, friendly - making attempts to get to know others at parties etc. (incidentally - the most boring parties I have ever been to in my life!) and heard back that I had been interrogating the guests. In Ireland I make friends easily and would not be considered nosy or pushy. I also met an Irish friend's German girlfriend, and in an attempt to welcome her, had asked her lots about herself and was as engaging as possible. She took great offense to this, responded monosyllabically and complained afterwards to my friend, who tried to put her right.

Having said that, I have some German friends who are equally as chatty and interested as the Irish. So it's very difficult to know how to behave at times, I feel your pain. When you're not in your home country, to some degree you have to just suck it up. I mean, what can you do? You were just being nice and your flatmate is offended. Perhaps take five minutes to explain how Irish people relate to one another, and apologise if you inadvertently caused any upset. If this doesn't break the ice, she's a cow. Move out.

I have had the same experience with some German people. I was being generally chatty, friendly - making attempts to get to know others at parties etc. (incidentally - the most boring parties I have ever been to in my life!) and heard back that I had been interrogating the guests. In Ireland I make friends easily and would not be considered nosy or pushy.

Yeah! It's so strange. I'd even be considered quiet to most Irish people, so I know I'm not the 'bubbly' type, which can be annoying to some. The question is, how do Germans interact, then? If a question like 'where are you from?' or 'did you do anything exciting over the weekend?' is an interrogation, what are you supposed to say?

Affable

Tbh I think there's a lot to be said for living in your home culture, even if that can seem dull at times. You feel more entitled then.
Tbh I've had these abrasive social encounters, often with Americans who I have problems with, there are tons over here. Just try and focus on other stuff and not dwell on it. There'll always be people you don't get on with and as this thread demonstrates, though it can feel that way, everyone experiences this.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

acontadino

the weather seems to be a very popular conversation starter i have seen.

girl in my class was from cologne, said she didn't really like germany that much, i thought she was mad, but she seems to think the irish are much more friendly and fun than the germans. however i found berliners to be very nice..so maby its just people being selective.

op ive never noticed these cultural differences, have many spanish friends who i got to know and they seem to be pretty much the same as any irish teenagers in the way they act.

Terodil

I can see how this could be an issue, communication patterns (i.e. the order in which topics are addressed) are just different according to cultures. For example, whereas Americans would not hesitate to approach the topic of pay on the first night, Irish people would probably wait a couple of evenings before they asked, but Germans (and maybe Dutch) would address the subject very very late, if at all. Germans tend to be much more business-oriented when new to each other, usually ask about what you *do*, not what you *are*. When meeting in the evenings, the same applies, hobbies etc. > personal details. Private stuff (income, CV, ...) is pretty much off-limits at first and you'll need to become more friendly with them or it'll go down as 'nosy'.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest a non-nosy order of topics for Germans xD

1. weather
2. events of common interest
3. job / hobbies
4. age, salary etc
5. ...

Jack B. Badd

If someone asked me about my salary, I would consider it extremely rude. Do people actually include that as a part of "small talk"?

MJOR

I'D be quite chatty but had this housemate that i just didn't like. I actually couldn't even bear to make small talk with her because i just couldn't stand her... i am not saying this is the case with you but maybe you guys just aren't suited!

valleyoftheunos

OP

I travel back and forth to Belgium pretty much once a month so I feel experienced enough to tar them all with one brush!:D

I'm guessing you are living in Brussels but if you are up in Flanders things might be a bit different.

In general I have found Belgian (in Brussels) people to be quite nice mostly but also very dour, a little unfriendly and sometimes just a bit miserable. So dont see many people smiling on the streets where as just up the road (so to speak) in Amsterdam they never stop smiling.

The other thing to think of is that Continental European people have a different attitude and approach to "small talk" thn we do. If an Irish person asks another Irish person "how are you?" the only answer they want or expect is "Grand" we dont really want to know how somebody is in anything but the broadest terms if at all.

on the other hand if you ask the same question to a German, a French person or a Belgian "how are you?" and if they know you well they will spend 10 minutes telling you about how they have been a little bit constipated for a few days and that their athlete's foot is getting worse and all sorts of other things that you never wanted to know.

If they dont know you, and your flatmate probably feels she doesn't, they will probably be quite taken a back and think its a somewhat intrusive question.

You say all that in your OP so really I'm just agreeing with you. They have different attitudes to small chat and when to be friendly etc. Dont let it bother you, dont take it personally and try to remember that they might misunderstand what you mean by your banter!

LegacyUser

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

Polleta

I was going out with a UK guy who lived in Brussels a while ago and on a visit to cork we were checking out of a hotel. I was just signing the bill and chatting to the receptionist who asked what we were up to for the day etc and have general chit chat.

As we were walking out to me car he said he though the receptionist was being really nosey asking what we were doing for the day until I answered as normal and he said it just made him realise how much friendlier Irish people were in general in these general chit chat situations.

Your flatmate will get used to you in time just give him/her a chance to understand the slightly different culture we live in.

In the same way you weren't being rude they were probably just taken aback by what they viewed as a seriously personal question. As someone else said maybe explain the way people are here.

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

See this is the thing. I just can't understand how anyone could be irritated by something so small. If being asked 'how was your day?' is enough to irritate you, maybe you're not suited to living with other people? What's so hard about just saying 'grand thanks' and going about your business? I totally understand wanting your space and privacy but at the same time I think it's unfair to live with others and act like they're a nuisance to you. I had a flatmate last year who used to come home and sit in his room all night. Didn't ever cook or watch TV in the flat. When we did ever meet him in the living room, he was cordial and polite and we had a little chat. I only spoke to him every 2 weeks or so but when I did, he was polite and I never went away feeling awkward. If he had sat in the living room every night and never said a word to us, that would have been a different story.

Maybe it's just me, but if I couldn't stand even saying good morning to someone, I'd get my own bedsit. I live my own life, I have my own friends, but as far as I'm concerned, if I have flatmates, I've an obligation to have a little chat to them when I see them around the place, whether I like them or not. Just 'hey hows it going?' or 'good day?' What does a few words cost? If I REALLY don't want to talk, I'll hide in my room. I think it's plain rude to sit in a shared space in say nothing.

As we were walking out to me car he said he though the receptionist was being really nosey asking what we were doing for the day until I answered as normal

But how could anyone think a hotel receptionist cared what they were doing? Just seems a bit.....arrogant or something to assume they were doing anything but making polite small talk? I worked in a hotel in NYC and we were instructed to ask why the guests had come to NY and what they were going to do when they came to check in. Nobody acted shocked or confused. I suppose the Belgians just don't ask things like this, they stick to 'business' talk and get the job done.

LegacyUser

I met 2 swedish girls while travelling and they said that they are very stand offish until they get to know/trust someone. Being a bit of a gabby irishman I eventually wore them down and they were really nice once and outgoing.

They said it was just a cultural thing, but they said that because they knew Irish people are chatty they didnt mind me

Affable

Unregistered wrote: »

I met 2 swedish girls while travelling and they said that they are very stand offish until they get to know/trust someone. Being a bit of a gabby irishman I eventually wore them down and they were really nice once and outgoing.

They said it was just a cultural thing, but they said that because they knew Irish people are chatty they didnt mind me

Swedish people are very reserved I find. I felt bad cos some of the Swedes U've know are really nice, I think English people are kinda bolshy in comparison.

mcyclist

wimba wrote: »

Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but !!!

I assume your flat mate would not share that view. What a nasty attitude to someone who, by your own post, has never done anything to you.

OP, many people find the Irish tendency to ask questions to be a little intrusive. But you can make small talk WITHOUT asking about them. You are in a new city so ask about some more neutral things like the museums, restaurants ( many excellent in Brussels) etc. And take it slowly. By the way, a lot of Europeans make a big distinction between those who are friends and those who are acquaintances so don't be insulted by this.

Oh The Humanity

wimba wrote: »

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care. I'm not a nasty person, but we're not alike in any way except the same field of work but that's not enough for me to tolerate her so I just avoid her in case I snap at her [which she doesn't deserve either] but it's just the way I feel!!!

With respect this kind of attitude REALLY bugs me.

Its not enough for me to tolerate her

Has it not occurred to you that this girl might not like you either and is simply trying to oil the wheels of interaction in the place she is living. IF we were to go around grunting like cretins at everyone we didn't like the world would be in worse trouble. She is tolerating YOU so get over yourself and pass yourself with the girl.

'People who hate small talk' have got to stop being so conceited and thinking that the asker is motivated by a burrning desire to know 'their business'

They are not, they are simply trying to be polite and avoid an 'awkward silence' They are no more interested in your business than the man in the moon, and to imagine they are is very conceited and self absorbed.

OP, I make one decent effort with most people, if I am rudely rebuffed well fcuk em dont bother wasting your breath on ignorant people any more.

If they are so full of themselves that they actually believe you are stopping your day to nose into their business, dont bother, leave them to their delusions, they will grow up some day and remember their idiocy with embarassment.

LegacyUser

I find that in Europe you should never ask a person about something personal until you spent a lot of time together to be comfortable about it. Even a 'how are you' can seem offensive to strangers.

I've travelled a lot and find while in Germany and Belgium i had to talk to people about things around them like famous landmarks and touristy things before we really got chatting about myself and where I come from. It kind of eased me into a normal conversation.

In Poland and Russia all I got for my questions was YES or NO. No talking. No personal questions until topic turned to what they all know, Vodka. That loosened their tongue as they all think they know better than the europeans about these things

Everyone's different though. May be you should keep away from personal subjects and just pretend to be a complete stranger to their ways and ask your flatmate for advise on where to go to find out about their culture? It might make her understand you more?

LegacyUser

I met a Polish guy, the owner of the hostel I was staying in Krakow when I was backpacking and he was really friendly, real chatty but he did admit that alot of poles can be quiet, especially older ones- he put it down to a kind of "culture of silence" which existed throughout the Soviet occupation- apparantly people even neighbours, would go to the secret police and give them information so people became very suspicious/paranoid about anyone who they thought was trying to get info out of them.

Great country- I highly recommend it (The Salt mines in Krakow were spectacular)

Has it not occurred to you that this girl might not like you either and is simply trying to oil the wheels of interaction in the place she is living. IF we were to go around grunting like cretins at everyone we didn't like the world would be in worse trouble. She is tolerating YOU so get over yourself and pass yourself with the girl.

This would be my thinking. I don't agree with being 'fake' but what harm does exchanging a few polite words do? I'm not naturally social so I had to learn 'small talk' when I was 10-11, I was told to consider other peoples' feelings and that sometimes things need to be done to make others comfortable. Do some people not learn this? How can you think its OK to completely ignore someone? Just seems like a huge lack of maturity and respect to me. It's very common and normal not to get along great with flatmates, so you say hello when you see them, be polite and civil. If that's difficult for someone it makes me wonder what kind of person they are, tbh. So busy and important they can't find the time to say 'my day was grand, thanks, you?' :eek:

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];59340394]This would be my thinking. I don't agree with being 'fake' but what harm does exchanging a few polite words do? I'm not naturally social so I had to learn 'small talk' when I was 10-11, I was told to consider other peoples' feelings and that sometimes things need to be done to make others comfortable. Do some people not learn this? How can you think its OK to completely ignore someone? Just seems like a huge lack of maturity and respect to me. It's very common and normal not to get along great with flatmates, so you say hello when you see them, be polite and civil. If that's difficult for someone it makes me wonder what kind of person they are, tbh. So busy and important they can't find the time to say 'my day was grand, thanks, you?' :eek:[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. I am very shy and self conscious but I was also brought up to put other peoples feelings before my own.

I struggle to make small talk myself but I understand it is necessary and put my own awkward feelings aside in order to make others feel comfortable.

There is no excuse for plain ignorance, its just self indulgence.

JC 2K3

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Some people can't stand small talk. I don't particularly like being asked about my day or how I am etc. It does feel like prying and its my business to divulge it or not. You should try to understand some people don't like it, or don't see the need to talk at every opportunity.

wimba wrote: »

To be honest, I'm living with 2 others and lived with same people last year. One I get on with, the other I don't. Whilst I wouldn't have any confrontations with her, I don't get on with her and don't talk to her much. We're completely different people. Every day I come in from work she says "Hi how was your day?" and I find it SO irritating. I can't be arsed making small talk with her, I don't ask her about her day because frankly I don't care.

I'd be similar, depending on my mood. Sometimes, if someone I don't want to talk to attempts to make small talk with me, I just get so irritated. It depends on the person though, generally it's really just people who irritate me full stop that this happens with.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

They are not, they are simply trying to be polite and avoid an 'awkward silence' They are no more interested in your business than the man in the moon, and to imagine they are is very conceited and self absorbed.

Why are people so uncomfortable with silence? I never understand this and would find bugging someone else to talk so that they don't feel awkward to some across as quite insecure.

Craft25

did you ever stay in a culture that has a much closer distance threshold than ours? Where people would choose the seat right beside you on the sofa even if theres loads of space, and have no problem walking in and out of everybody's rooms.. i get that from some south americans & even though i think they are great people & totally respect them it just totally creeps me out..

I'd imagine that's how she feels a bit, like you're crossing the border into her space... maybe she's less culturally aware than you are and is unable to see that it is just your different way & that you werent digging..

Personally i'd let her know, "im sorry it's not normal to say hi in your culture but in mine it's not normal to snap at someone first thing in the morning, do it again and find out!!" - stand up for urself!!

Oh The Humanity

I dont think its that people are uncomfortable with silence, but that they are uncomfortable with a hostile silence.

To me silence is a precious luxury to be enjoyed and savoured.

The understood protocol is a simple word or two in passing which then allows both people to fall back into a nice neutral peace.

So I in no way see passing a few kind words with someone who lives in close proximity with me to be any kind of realistic compromise on the enjoyment of silence.

No one wants to share with some moody teenager type sulking in the corner, avoiding eye contact and spitting with venom every time someone aknowledges their presence.

Its precious and diva like behaviour.

Nitxteha

I don't think that's cultural differences, politeness is international.

Some people get along better than others, try not to force situations. Obviously you want to be friendly but she may just want to share the place and have no interaction with her flatmates.

If you feel comfortable that way just be correct and don't "bother" her. But if you want to have a different atmosphere at home, try to find another place.

Terodil

Nitxteha wrote: »

I don't think that's cultural differences, politeness is international.

The concept is, the matter is not. For example it would be polite to use a tissue when you blow your nose in north-western Europe. This would be considered offensive in rural China, where the only way to blow your nose appropriately would be to use your fingers.

This is a fallacy many people (esp. expatriates) fall into. They believe that openness and directness is enough to get along with the local culture. Nothing could be more wrong.

Loxosceles

[quote=[Deleted User];59327769]...the mother would say they were going out for the day and I asked 'ah very nice, where are you heading?' and she accused me of being nosy and interrogating! Now in my mind this is a very twisted and quite nasty logic - taking a polite interest in someone is considered nosy? I've always been brought up to ask people about themselves and not go on about myself. Is this an Irish thing? I'd much rather have a polite little chat upon meeting in the kitchen than awkward silence. I feel it's ignorant not to talk. And I'd be a quite type myself and keep to myself, but I believe not making an effort is rude.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing? I've lived in a lot of places and am three nationalities myself, so I'm not some ignorant buffoon. This exchange this morning has left me extremely homesick. As much as Dublin has been annoying me recently, I miss being able to have a 2 minute chat with a flatmate without getting my head bitten off [/quote]

That's interesting...where I come from, it's what you do for a living that is the segway into introductions and conversation; asking essentially about what a person does best and is proud of doing that validates them. But where you come from, that is considered shallow and rude because a person here is not considered to be their career, and when I ask the same questions, the answer can be, "I drive a taxi. What the fsck does that matter to you?" So I get interpreted for being shallow and money-orientated when in fact we just get money and livings out of the way first and then focus on what matters.

Unfortunately, I get accused of being loud, dominating, assertive, and self-righteous as well as career-driven. (And is actually only true in ASCII.) But, when you get the same accusation enough times for trying to make polite conversation, one can start to believe and turn into a self-fulfilling prophecy. I admit to doing that a few times while in utter exasperation with prejudice. And far more often and with more viciousness when I feel like I've been treated unfairly.

The sad truth is, there are some (not all, I said _some_) Irish people who are astonishingly nosy and interrogating in order to have the opportunity to be judgmental and tsk tutty tut, or to find out if you are a single parent, or how much money you make, or slyly find out if you know how to genuflect to see how dismissive a lifestyle you lead and whether or not the neighbours should talk to you. Unfortunately, that lot (and...um...the drunk ones, sorry to say) get the most negative international attention, and like the small percentage of loud, warmongering, money-grubbing, shallow Americans, are the ones who generate the most cultural infamy.

So what you are getting is called prejudice, methinks. You are obviously metropolitan and open-minded. The best way to communicate that is to be nice and never hesitate to explain yourself, and instead of being upset, stand your ground and tell them as soon as you get told off, that you have no intention of judging them and that it's how you show respect to people in your country. The same way I often tell people that I am not going to invade their country, (but I'll admit that I get invasively loud when I'm accused of it.) Lol.

lox.

Some people get along better than others, try not to force situations. Obviously you want to be friendly but she may just want to share the place and have no interaction with her flatmates.

That's fine with me as well, but sometimes we HAVE to be in the same room. I have a job that means I need to be online and print stuff out for 2 hours every night, and I have to do that in the living room. I just feel like I'm in her way and not welcome, even if I don't talk. I get a strong vibe of 'this is MY place and you're just my lodger' off her. She moans at me for leaving dishes out or spending too long in the shower, yet her own behaviour is 100 times worse (in the last few days, leaving fish filled pots for 4-5 days, leaving her hair she'd just cut lying all over the sink, coming in at 3am on a worknight with mates so I got no sleep). She's a really irritating flatmate as they go, and she picks on the few slightly, minor annoying things I do! Maybe she's just a b*tch. Hehe. I don't think she's used to living with strangers. I don't know what her deal is.

valleyoftheunos

[quote=[Deleted User];59346467]That's fine with me as well, but sometimes we HAVE to be in the same room. I have a job that means I need to be online and print stuff out for 2 hours every night, and I have to do that in the living room. I just feel like I'm in her way and not welcome, even if I don't talk. I get a strong vibe of 'this is MY place and you're just my lodger' off her. She moans at me for leaving dishes out or spending too long in the shower, yet her own behaviour is 100 times worse (in the last few days, leaving fish filled pots for 4-5 days, leaving her hair she'd just cut lying all over the sink, coming in at 3am on a worknight with mates so I got no sleep). She's a really irritating flatmate as they go, and she picks on the few slightly, minor annoying things I do! Maybe she's just a b*tch. Hehe. I don't think she's used to living with strangers. I don't know what her deal is.[/QUOTE]

I think the problem here isn't Cultural differences at all, you have an awful flatmate. She's not worth bothering with, if I were you I'd move.

scorpioishere

To be honest, for me if i share with other people, i will be glad to talk to them and expect them to talk to me as well. Whats the point of staying ain a house with four people and none of them have a good conversation. If you are selfish, rude and doesn't like to talk, then get your own space and live on your own.

For your question, may be they doesn't know you that much or doesn't feel comfortable with you at the moment. may be when they get to know you better then they will talk about everything to you.

Madou

Feel your pain a little. I've lived with two Flemish people over here and found it very hard to connect, some of the driest conversation I've ever experienced. So yeah defo some cultural differences sometimes, but mind you, she just sounds like she's a horrible person to live with - Bet you she leaves you little notes around the place too!! :mad: i hate that!

The Flemish can be very dry all right. This girl is French speaking though. Which makes me realise, the only time I've ever had major problems with anyone was if they were French. Lived with a nightmare couple in Spain who turned on me and started bullying me to the shock and disgust of the other flatmates, who couldn't really do much to stop it, another nightmare couple in Dublin who ganged up on the rest of us. The only bad summer/work abroad I've ever had was the time I went to France. I don't know what it is but French people and me just don't seem to mix. There must be some cultural thing there I'm not getting even though I speak the language and have been there about a billion times. And the worst part is, I always try to convince myself that I've just had bad experiences and been unlucky, and not to hold it against the French cos that would be silly, and each time I'm disappointed again :eek: Maybe it's time I just gave up on the whole French thing and took up a new language. It's starting to feel like life is too short at this stage!

MelonieHead

[quote=[Deleted User];593277690] Is this an Irish thing?[/quote]
Yes, it actually is. Very much so. There's nothing wrong with that, but as you are the foreigner in her country then she is less likely to be concerned with "making an effort" to include you.

[quote=[Deleted User];593277690]
I had a similar issue when I worked in Spain as an au pair, the mother would say they were going out for the day and I asked 'ah very nice, where are you heading?' and she accused me of being nosy and interrogating![/quote]

There's your answer! It's very common in other parts of Europe to be very private, it's a cultural difference, when I first came to Ireland I found people to be unnervingly nosey, now I realise it's just how (most) people are. But if you're in their country then you can't expect people to unnessecarily accomodate you. If for no other reason than they don't know how!

[quote=[Deleted User];593277690]I've lived in a lot of places and am three nationalities myself, [/quote]

Nw, come on, did you actually grow up in three countries? If not, then you are going to be of the culture of the country in which you did grow up. Your great grandfather being from Portugal before he moved to Ireland at age three doesn't really make you Portuguese. Not culturally anyway.

LegacyUser

[quote=[Deleted User];59327769]Living abroad at the moment, as I have done many times, I'm having a lot of problems with my flatmate. I should start by saying I've lived in 8-10 flatshares and never had a real problem before. The last few places I lived in Dublin they were begging me not to go and took ages to find a suitable replacement - not tooting my own horn, but to make it clear that I'm generally considered a very good flatmate. I'm not loud, not particularly messy, don't hog the TV, basically don't make myself a nuisance and try to stay out of peoples' way. Living in Belgium now and I seem to annoy the hell out of my flatmate. When I come into the place, I say hello and usually ask how her day was, or some other small talk. Got up this morning, said good morning and asked was she out last night to which she got annoyed and said she felt like I was interrogating her? :eek: It was polite small talk ffs! I've never NOT been asked that question in Dublin when I met a flatmate over the weekend. I had a similar issue when I worked in Spain as an au pair, the mother would say they were going out for the day and I asked 'ah very nice, where are you heading?' and she accused me of being nosy and interrogating! Now in my mind this is a very twisted and quite nasty logic - taking a polite interest in someone is considered nosy? I've always been brought up to ask people about themselves and not go on about myself. Is this an Irish thing? I'd much rather have a polite little chat upon meeting in the kitchen than awkward silence. I feel it's ignorant not to talk. And I'd be a quite type myself and keep to myself, but I believe not making an effort is rude.

Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing? I've lived in a lot of places and am three nationalities myself, so I'm not some ignorant buffoon. This exchange this morning has left me extremely homesick. As much as Dublin has been annoying me recently, I miss being able to have a 2 minute chat with a flatmate without getting my head bitten off [/QUOTE]

I know what your going through. First impressions always last. She is just an unfriendly bitch, ignore her.

But you need to confront her on her issues with you as you mentined in thread.

Be assertive and point out that you were trying to be friendly.

I have been to Brussels and bruge, the Belgians are a boring lot anyway, lol

gary the great

acontadino wrote: »

the weather seems to be a very popular conversation starter i have seen.

girl in my class was from cologne, said she didn't really like germany that much, i thought she was mad, but she seems to think the irish are much more friendly and fun than the germans. however i found berliners to be very nice..so maby its just people being selective.

op ive never noticed these cultural differences, have many spanish friends who i got to know and they seem to be pretty much the same as any irish teenagers in the way they act.

I was in Cologne at the Kings of leon gig last week, we were signing like mad and were actually told to stop siging so loud by a german :eek:

There just very private reserved people, we have a reputation as being very friendly and fun loving, they actually think irish people are a bit wild and menatl. just different cultures, i wouldnt pass any remarlks tbh.

Yes, it actually is. Very much so. There's nothing wrong with that, but as you are the foreigner in her country then she is less likely to be concerned with "making an effort" to include you.

I'm well aware of that. It's just that if 'making an effort' involves saying hello to me and taking the slightest bit of interest in me, that comes across as rather rude and unfriendly. She's not some randomer I just met on the street. She's my flatmate who I live with. I'm taking French classes, learning Dutch, making every effort to get to know people here and getting sweet FA back. A colleague actually noticed me and asked where I was from the other day, I nearly fell of my chair in shock and had a comedy 'are you talking to ME?' moment :rolleyes:

Nw, come on, did you actually grow up in three countries? If not, then you are going to be of the culture of the country in which you did grow up. Your great grandfather being from Portugal before he moved to Ireland at age three doesn't really make you Portuguese. Not culturally anyway.

Grew up in two countries and spent two years in the third. The point is, I'm a very adaptable person. I'm not someone who expects everything to be like 'back home', as I've been exposed to different cultures and attitudes all my life. Most of my friends at school were Chinese and Pakistani. I just find this standoffishness very hard to deal with. I keep trying to tell myself it's cultual but I wonder where to draw the line between 'French' and 'plain ignorant'. I'm trying my best not to become a moaning and bitter expat but starting to think maybe French just isn't for me!

Zillah

My first reaction was "What a rude cow!" but now that I think of it questions like that from an unexpected source can be quite off putting. I was buying a coffee in Starbucks in Atlanta a couple weeks ago and the guy behind the counter said "How was your day sir?" and I just stared and then said "Sorry?"

The idea of the coffee guy asking me about my day was just so unexpected I probably came across as quite rude. I was more confused than anything.

Jack B. Badd wrote: »

If someone asked me about my salary, I would consider it extremely rude. Do people actually include that as a part of "small talk"?

Apparently it's not nearly so much a taboo subject in the US as it is here.

prinz

You're there to experience a new culture, so experience it! People are different... that's just the way it is. You may want to reconsider your location, is there a large age difference? Are there many foreigners around? I spent a large amount of time in Leuven, Flanders and had an absolute ball. This notion of the Irish as a fun loving happy-go-lucky chatty crowd is so mis-placed. We've forgotten as a nation how to have fun without getting plastered. My favourite past time while i was abroad was drinking, Belgium is heaven, but I have actually never enjoyed myself in the company of people, be it cooking dinner together, calling round for tea, or just meeting up in a park to sit and chat, as I have in continental Europe. The idea to Irish people, of a group of friends buying ingredients and cooking dinner together as opposed to going to the pub is laughable. We have so much yet to learn. As a nation we're immature. Personally I dont like small talk that much, unless I know the person well. It's just how it is. But I have found French, German and Belgians to better real friends when it comes down to it. sure they might not be chatty or into going on the lash, but when i am in need i know who i can turn to. Have been let down by so many irish people in the past (people with whom there was fun and small chat on a daily or weekly business) ive also been helped out of many sticky situations, most noticeably in Belgium, by a neighbour who I had never even said more than hello to. My gf is german and is very direct but i like that about them, for instance if an irish girl asks her friend "do i look fat in this" you get No No No you look great, if a german girl asks her friend the same question and she does she will get a blunt answer Yes you do. Its hard to take at first but you get used to that sort of directness and actually get to appreciate it. Thats what a real friend does. Irish people are all small-talk and no substance.

polishpaddy

It's not culture thats bollocks.I think maybe your "too" happy!Your like a fat kid in a sweet shop, everythings nice and new. New country, new people, new persona. She might be stressed a small bit.Get over it.

MelonieHead

You're in France? I don't want to stereotype the French but in general people are a lot more reserved than the Irish would be.

It may be a difficult situation but whatever happens don't take it personally. I wouldn't imagine your flatmate has a problem with you, they're just that more reserved type of person.

herya

The whole cultural setup in Continental Europe is slightly different. I'm not sure about Belgium, but I am quite sure that's how it works in Poland (I'm Polish myself), Germany, Hungary, Austria, the Netherlands to a degree.

Basically people you meet are either strangers or friends.

Strangers you treat politely but you don't ask questions of personal nature and (depending on the grammar and such) you don't call them by their name until they ask you to, esp if they are older/of higher status than you, see "vous" vs "toi" in French etc. Small talk is not really popular - you either have something to talk about or not - small talk or "making conversation" comes across as fake or intrusive. She might be confused why you ask "how are you" if you're not really interested in the answer.

Friends you are really close with and you share personal experience, also you are really interested in what they have to say. If you ask a friend "how are you" you will get a detailed account of their recent successes and misfortunes; "oh grand" means brushing you off. But once you're close with somebody you have a relationship which is too meaningful for small talk so again there's no need for this.

So if you ask such a foreigner "how are you" (or any other personal question, as they perceive it) they will treat you as a stranger and will be offended/confused, or they will treat you as a friend and tell you their life story. Or should I say "we will"

If you'd like to have more interaction with her try discussing real topics and not small talk, also avoid talking about personal matters at first. Ask her for a cinema recommendation, how to get somewhere, tell her you need to buy something and you're looking for options etc. There is a distinct possibility that she's just a dreadful person and there's no point in it at all but if it's just because of cultural difference which I agree exists it might help.

Terodil

herya wrote: »

[everything]

+1 million. Excellent post, that hit the nail on the head.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

You're there to experience a new culture, so experience it! People are different... that's just the way it is. You may want to reconsider your location, is there a large age difference? Are there many foreigners around?

I'm in a very difficult job to meet people, as a lot of my time is spent with one-on-one students. I barely ever meet other teachers, let alone locals. It's a very, very lonely job. The sort of thing that would be great if I was at home and had my friends and boyfriend, but here it's a nightmare as I don't meet anyone. Even when I lived in France and everyone was awful and mean, at least I got to see them and how they worked/lived, I learned a lot at least.

But I have found French, German and Belgians to better real friends when it comes down to it. sure they might not be chatty or into going on the lash, but when i am in need i know who i can turn to. Have been let down by so many irish people in the past (people with whom there was fun and small chat on a daily or weekly business) ive also been helped out of many sticky situations, most noticeably in Belgium, by a neighbour who I had never even said more than hello to.

Yes I agree with this. The Irish are very easy to meet, very welcoming, but it often remains at that superficial level. I agree that the Belgians are very good friends once you know them, but the question is how to get to know them in the first place. The few I do know were introduced by my ex and I hung around with them that way, long before I moved here so there's connections and history there. I'm fairly sure that the same people wouldn't bother with me if we met randomly. Just not really sure what more I can do - I've put up ads for conversation exchanges and so on and nobody has replied. First time that's ever happened anywhere. It's exhausting putting in so much effort for so little results. I'm naturally introverted myself, so it's really difficult walking into a room of people and trying to chat as it is. Several times this week I've walked into a staff room at one of my jobs, said hello with a smile and got NO reply :eek:

My gf is german and is very direct but i like that about them, for instance if an irish girl asks her friend "do i look fat in this" you get No No No you look great, if a german girl asks her friend the same question and she does she will get a blunt answer Yes you do. Its hard to take at first but you get used to that sort of directness and actually get to appreciate it. Thats what a real friend does. Irish people are all small-talk and no substance.

I agree, I like direct and blunt. That's not the same as being standoffish though. I found the Germans quite friendly and talkative compared to the people here.

acontadino

prinz wrote: »

You're there to experience a new culture, so experience it! People are different... that's just the way it is. You may want to reconsider your location, is there a large age difference? Are there many foreigners around? I spent a large amount of time in Leuven, Flanders and had an absolute ball. This notion of the Irish as a fun loving happy-go-lucky chatty crowd is so mis-placed. We've forgotten as a nation how to have fun without getting plastered. My favourite past time while i was abroad was drinking, Belgium is heaven, but I have actually never enjoyed myself in the company of people, be it cooking dinner together, calling round for tea, or just meeting up in a park to sit and chat, as I have in continental Europe. The idea to Irish people, of a group of friends buying ingredients and cooking dinner together as opposed to going to the pub is laughable. We have so much yet to learn. As a nation we're immature. Personally I dont like small talk that much, unless I know the person well. It's just how it is. But I have found French, German and Belgians to better real friends when it comes down to it. sure they might not be chatty or into going on the lash, but when i am in need i know who i can turn to. Have been let down by so many irish people in the past (people with whom there was fun and small chat on a daily or weekly business) ive also been helped out of many sticky situations, most noticeably in Belgium, by a neighbour who I had never even said more than hello to. My gf is german and is very direct but i like that about them, for instance if an irish girl asks her friend "do i look fat in this" you get No No No you look great, if a german girl asks her friend the same question and she does she will get a blunt answer Yes you do. Its hard to take at first but you get used to that sort of directness and actually get to appreciate it. Thats what a real friend does. Irish people are all small-talk and no substance.

wow, your a fool. what do you know about 'real friends'? there is good/bad people everywhere. your experiences dont speak for everyone in ireland so get lost.

Affable

[quote=[Deleted User];59352514]
Grew up in two countries and spent two years in the third. The point is, I'm a very adaptable person. I'm not someone who expects everything to be like 'back home', as I've been exposed to different cultures and attitudes all my life. Most of my friends at school were Chinese and Pakistani. I just find this standoffishness very hard to deal with. I keep trying to tell myself it's cultual but I wonder where to draw the line between 'French' and 'plain ignorant'. I'm trying my best not to become a moaning and bitter expat but starting to think maybe French just isn't for me![/quote]

Just a suggestion, but you mention what you 'get back'..is there a chance you could be looking at it too much in terms of what you get? Because people can sense that and won't like it, they prefer if you're just genuine, even if that just means being nice less often but doing it cos you want to.
Not having a go at you, as I'm only guessing from an outside perspective, but it's possible.

Relating to the rest..hmm tricky. I think French people can be arrogant. Tbh English people like me down south are quite standoffish and reserved.
but that's more about personal space than arrogance.
The French I meet are more freindly but maybe a bit more confident and cocksure than English people in talking about themselves or putting themselves first, maybe that's some of it? Don't think you're a moaning expat, cultural differences are hard and we can realise how much we love our home country. I did when I went just up the road to Scotland. Maybe you can take it as a positive, it might change your priorities and set you on a more settled course back home and make you appreciate Ireland more....you can always turn a positive into a negative. Hell, you're away and trying stuff in foreign countries, that should be commended in itself. More than I've done tbh.