UFC 96 Rampage vs Jardine Discussion Thread *Spoilers*

Turbo_diesel

Good night of fights alright didnt expect Gonzaga to go out in the first round like that. Glad to see Rampage win the man is brilliant entertainment in & outside the octogon & seems to be great craic. Not much time for him alright if he has to fight Rashad in May. Machida should have been the next in line to fight Rashad anyway with Rampage taking on the winner.
Bad night for the refs alright was it Yve Lavine who messed up the Mat Brown fight? What was the name of the ref who called the Aaron Riley fight to early?

calex71

havent been keeping up with the rankings etc in this division, but jardine v griffen II ? I know forest is this on the injury list but this surely must be a possibility depending on how soon he's back and definitely one id love to see.

Dave Joyce

was it Yve Lavine who messed up the Mat Brown fight?

Talk about messing it up, seemed like he didn't know what he was doing. Although Sell went down initially from a flash KO, it warranted a stoppage, BUT to intervene between the two fighters and stop them and THEN to wave it back on again was bullshet!! Just before he stopped it finally, Sell was so outta it, he fell on his ass. Man, THAT was some crap reffing.

Impressed with Matt Brown and Matt Hamill.

Although it was a good punch from Carwin, I'm beginning to think Gonzaga has a glass jaw.

calex71

total shambles there alright , guy got how may extra hits thanks to the ref?, who is supposed to be there to protect you from unnecessary damage
my god if it was pride rules he'd have his head literally danced on by the time it was stopped

ShawnRaven

calex71 wrote: »

total shambles there alright , guy got how may extra hits thanks to the ref?, who is supposed to be there to protect you from unnecessary damage
my god if it was pride rules he'd have his head literally danced on by the time it was stopped

First thing i thought when i saw that. Must have gone to the Steve Mazzagatti school of refereeing! :pac:

muckwarrior

I always thought highly of Yves Livigne as a ref, but that was one almighty ****up.

I wonder did the controversy over the earlier stoppage play a part, i.e. maybe the ref getting a lot of stick for an early stoppage caused him to second guess himself. Even so, once he pulled the fighters apart it's definitely too late to change your mind!

shenanigans1982

calex71 wrote: »

Jackson and evans post fight in the ring made me want to puke.

It's like a new feud starting in wwe or something :mad:

Jacksons post match interview was one of the highlights of the night....although I didn't see the full card.

And his stare down with Evans was great. I dislike Evans', in interviews he comes across ok but his attitude in the octogon is wrong. And from his commentary last night it seems that he is none to happy with facing Rampage. And the way he looked when they were face to face pretty much confirmed it.

I think when Rampage wins the title back last night will be something that really helped him do it. It's gotten him inside Evans' head and intimidated him a little..

Also though Brandon Vera looked good last night, but the guy seems to blow hot and cold hopefully he can put on a few performances like that against big names.

ginoginelli

Rampage and Rashads verbal exchange was great television and has succeded in hyping a fight that needed hyping.

Yves lavine was a bit silly but his intentions were good. Premature stoppages suck and he was just trying to bring the fight to a conclusive end. He did however act inappropiately by stopping the fight and restarting it.

Carwin looked rocked and was getting handled up to the point of the knockout. He's got serious power though. Id like to see him and de santos next.

Id really like to see Rampage push the pace more in his fights and just brawl a bit. He's got a good chin and great boxing technique, but he needs to throw more. 5 and 7 instead of 2 and 3 combos. Back to that bully brawling style, like in the first chuck fight.

chopperbyrne

ginoginelli wrote: »

Carwin looked rocked and was getting handled up to the point of the kockout.

Tee hee hee

Fozzy

ShawnRaven wrote: »

First thing i thought when i saw that. Must have gone to the Steve Mazzagatti school of refereeing! :pac:

Slight TUF spoiler here,

Mazzagatti calls what may be the worst late stoppage ever in UFC in the upcoming season, according to some reports. Dana referred to it at the post show press conference on Saturday

It's been a bad year for refs so far

rovert

Fozzy wrote: »

Slight TUF spoiler here,

Mazzagatti calls what may be the worst late stoppage ever in UFC in the upcoming season, according to some reports. Dana referred to it at the post show press conference on Saturday

It's been a bad year for refs so far

Yeah Dave Meltzer has cited that numerous times. I really wonder how UFC & Dana will treat/edit it.

Kazooie

Late stoppage as in someone took a few too many shots before it was called?
I think thats even worse than an early stoppage. Fighter safety should be number 1 priority.

rovert

Kazooie wrote: »

Late stoppage as in someone took a few too many shots before it was called?
I think thats even worse than an early stoppage. Fighter safety should be number 1 priority.

The way it was described the ref pretty much put the fighters life in danger. It went beyond a late call.

Late stoppages are WAY worse than early ones. Pete Sell was left in that fight about 30 seconds too long. He mounted NO offence and basically got the shit kicked out of him for a minute and a half.

Killme00

I only got around to watching this last night.

Brandon Vera looked good BUT he was fighting someone who was unfit, overweight and overmatched. Veras kicks looked great, how he would do against one of the better guys i just dont know.

Matt Hammill looked enormous. Stick him in against Vera next pls.

Shane Carwin, nice KO but from the way he drops his hands he would get murdered by most of the better guys. 11-0 now though and still improving, tougher tests to come though.

Brown vs Sell, FFS ref what are you at!! Making a mistake is bad but compounding it by allowing Sell to continue when he was obviously out on his feet was worse.

Rampage vs Jardine. Rampage is a better fighter now, it must be down to where he is training and where his head is. I loved his shoot in Rnd 2. Jardine summed up this event for me, a tryer but a loser nonetheless.

Rampage vs Evans will be a good fight, i didnt realise how big Evans actually was until they squared up. No doubts in my mind that Evans will win by UD after five rounds of standup and i am willing to bet that it doesnt hit the ground once.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Late stoppages are WAY worse than early ones. Pete Sell was left in that fight about 30 seconds too long. He mounted NO offence and basically got the shit kicked out of him for a minute and a half.

His cornermen should take some of the blame too, they could have thrown the towel in at any point.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

His cornermen should take some of the blame too, they could have thrown the towel in at any point.

True and I appreciate that point 100% but ultimately it's the refs responsibility not to wait until his friends decide he's defo not gonna come back into it, but instead to make a call. Pete Sell was punch drunk even during the interviews after.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

His cornermen should take some of the blame too, they could have thrown the towel in at any point.

Not strictly true as that depends of the rules of the State. Throwing the towel in isnt recognised as a legal/permissable move by some States.

Neill has a very good point in the above post.

My understanding is that if throwing a towel in was legal/permissable, then it wouldn't end the fight.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

My understanding is that if throwing a towel in was legal/permissable, then it wouldn't end the fight.

As the ref wouldnt have noticed it like with gum shield falling out :pac:

rovert

rovert wrote: »

Not strictly true as that depends of the rules of the State. Throwing the towel in isnt recognised as a legal/permissable move by some States.

Neill has a very good point in the above post.

I'm actually not sure what the rules were in that particular state. Regardless though, cornermen tend to be less objective when watching their guys fight. I dunno why but it'd very unusual for them to throw in the towel. Even BJs corner waited until the round was over.

It's the refs job to be the mediating presence and in this case I think Lavigne made a balls of it. Referees are there 1st and foremost to ensure the safety of the fighters. I personally elt very uncomfortable after a point watching the hockeying Sell took.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm actually not sure what the rules were in that particular state. Regardless though, cornermen tend to be less objective when watching their guys fight. I dunno why but it'd very unusual for them to throw in the towel.

On that point you can go from fighters making their corner swear never ever to throw in the towel to the Gracies never quitting approach to fighting despite broken bones.

Kazooie

rovert wrote: »

On that point you can go from fighters making their corner swear never ever to throw in the towel to the Gracies never quitting approach to fighting despite broken bones.

Exactly. thats why the book stops with the ref. End of story, he's responsible for fighter safety.

ginoginelli

Yves comments on the brown/sell fight:



At the start of the fight featuring Matt Brown and Pete Sell Sell was rocked by a barrage of punches from Brown and fell to the ground. Referee Yves Lavigne stepped in momentarily then restarted the fight. “I screwed up. There’s not much to say. I screwed up the fight. I made a rookie mistake at the beginning and stopped it way too soon. I kind of restarted the fight. It wasn’t over at that point and I made the decision to look like a fool and say ok, keep going. I may have deprived Mr. Brown of an early victory but we’ll never know because of me.”

“I feel really bad. Fighters deserve the best. Instead of talking about Mr. Browns great win people are talking about a ref. Mr. Brown won with athleticism and tools he has and I’m taking the spotlight away because of my mistake. I feel really bad about it. He deserves better. He worked hard for that win.”
Lavigne insists that the stoppage in the earlier fight between Riley and Nelson had nothing to do with his actions, “No, not at all, it was not me in that fight. It’s my fault.”
After the fight Lavigne went to the back and checked on Sell, “Mr. Sell was ok, according to him and said I should’ve let it go.” Lavigne says. “I went to talk to him to see if he was ok. I do that on a regular basis after the fight. Sometimes with the adrenaline they tell the doctor they are ok but sometime later they are not. He really was ok.”
When asked if he talked to Dana White after the fight Lavigne responded, “I don’t talk to Dana White. The longest conversation I have ever had with him is hello and goodbye. I don’t work for him. I work for the Athletic Commission. My boss is Mr. Bernie Profato from Ohio. After that fight we had a quick debriefing next to the cage. He asked me a bunch of questions and I answered all of them. He asked me if I was good to go for the main event and I said, Yes Sir. He has the power to remove me but he didn’t. He could have put in Big Dan. We talked after the event and everything seemed fine.”
In another fight Lavigne had to step in after Mike Patt received some vicious leg kicks from Brandon Vera and couldn’t continue, “He probably is having problems walking today. You could hear the kicks. I bet it hurt like hell. I asked him twice if he wanted to continue. He didn’t really answer but he blinked with his eyes so I let it continue. He received one more kick and he went down. I gave him the opportunity to get up and he didn’t so I stepped in. At one point I figured he didn’t want to quit I understand I’ll make the decision for you. That’s what I should’ve done in the Pete Sell fight.”

Colm_OReilly

I always admire people who straight up say 'Look, I fuked up' so fair play to Lavigne for taking the responsibility.

Dragan

Some nice words from Yves i think. He seems more than willing to both take responsibility for his actions and decisions and also to admit that they were not the correct ones to make.

I am unsure as to what we can hold against him now, if anything. Yes, he made a mistake but he also has a huge list of fights where he made the perfect call.

Fair play to him tbh. Wish more of them did that.

Kazooie

Yup. Fair play to him. We're all human and make mistakes.*
Gotta respect him for admitting it straight away. He's still a top class ref in my view.


*Well Fedor's not human and never makes mistakes.

Nothingcompares

On the one hand I support his actions in restarting the fight after the first stoppage. He made a mistake, stopped it a moment too early and let the action get going again. Obviously the final stoppage should have came far earlier.


He made a mistake (stopped the fight first time), covered up for it well (restarted) then made a terrible blunder (let the fight continue).

ShawnRaven

Deleted User wrote: »

Late stoppages are WAY worse than early ones. Pete Sell was left in that fight about 30 seconds too long. He mounted NO offence and basically got the shit kicked out of him for a minute and a half.

Definitely. Don't wanna overdo the worst case scenario, but the referees have a job to do regarding fighter safety, too many blows to the head could result in permanent brain damage, prevention of that sort of thing is one of the reasons the referee is there in the first place.

And if Dana doesn't get his act together regarding stricter referees, he's gonna face serious media backlash back to the days of MMA being referred to as "human cockfighting", something Dana has been trying to stamp out for years.