Radical proposals under study to tighten social welfare eligibility

nesf

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0307/1224242449405.html?digest=1

I'd guess that they're playing the expectations game here and trying to make it sound like the budget from Hell, but they might be genuinely on the table. Plenty there for the Opposition and special interest groups to foam at the mouth over.

AlekSmart

Interesting one this,as the one "Scheme" which IS excercising official minds is NOT mentioned.

The Free-Travel Scheme has in the recent past been the focus of attention,largely due to the virtually unmonitored nature of its operation.
The Department appears unaware of exactly how many passes are currently in circulation vs the amount of persons currently entitled to possess one.

Additionally,the inclusion of a Spouse or Companion also adds a significant amount to the costing of the entire scheme.

Yet another noble intention which our native predeliction for tolerating thievery and fraud has managed to place under threat

caff

Free travel scheme shouldn't be that hard to monitor if they extended the new swipe cards that dublin bus use to all CIE, surely they could then gather data from that quite easily? They could phase in the change over a year. Would cost initially but can't imagine it been more than the savings from current abuse.

mikemac

- Axing the universal entitlement of over-70s to household benefits such as a free TV licence; telephone allowances; electricity allowances;

Opportunity for savings here. I can understand the importance of a telephone to the elderly especially if they are on their own. Though if you need a phone for emergenices could a PAYG phone not do instead of paying 300 line rental a year to Eircom?

But do away with free TV licences. It probably won't save much at all though

Red Sleeping Beauty

I see more stomping on the little guy proposals.

djpbarry

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I see more stomping on the little guy proposals.

We're spending more on welfare than we're taking in; how else do you suggest the balance should be redressed? An overhaul of the welfare system is long overdue in my opinion.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Can I assume that you don't rely on any social welfare payments ?

old boy

as someone who has free travel it is of no use to me, i have used it once in 4 years due to living in the boonies, the tv licience is of use, the fone thingy is of no use to me, if i got 10 lids a month of my payg it would be of more advantage.
most of theose were brought in years ago when times and circumstances were different, i wish i had a fiver for every time i was asked for a loan of my pass, which for ehtical reasons i always :eek:refuse.

djpbarry

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Can I assume that you don't rely on any social welfare payments ?

You can assume whatever you want - I don't care. It doesn't change the fact that there exists an imbalance in the welfare system - more is going out than is coming in. So I'll ask again, how do we fix this problem without either (a) cutting spending, (b) upping PRSI contributions or (c) both of the above?

nice_guy80

where to start...

axe the rent relief: ok, it will mean a lot of FF TDs tenant's won't be able to pay rent, but the rent is artificially to high anyway due to this government subsidy

tighten up the criteria for the dole: so many people working in the black economy at the moment.

work? put people on the dole to work for 1-2 days per week on social and community schemes.

scrap that childcare allowance given out last year. fund actually childcare facilities across the state

AlekSmart

Nice_guy80 .....where to start...

1.axe the rent relief: ok, it will mean a lot of FF TDs tenant's won't be able to pay rent, but the rent is artificially to high anyway due to this government subsidy

+1. This PRAA is currently draining serious amounts of money whilst being largely a contrived "Allowance" whose main function is to supplement a combination of Lone Parent and Jobseekers Allowance to give a nice little earner indeed.
The lack of a properly structured and regulated Private Rental sector is one of the biggest reasons why this recession is hitting Property Centred Ireland so hard.


2.work? put people on the dole to work for 1-2 days per week on social and community schemes.

Thats being attended to,Dublin Bus will be offering just such a scheme very soon,though having to work Late on Sat and Sun might cramp the style of many....:)

It appears to me that the system needs to recognise the reality that in order to avail of benefits one needs to have first Contributed into the pot.

Currently,many of the basic benefits appear to be available almost on a nod basis to persons satisfying some very basic criteria.

The combining of several benefits does operate against a person actually bothering to work for a single wage as the add-on`s of the SW will soon outweigh the benefits of "Work".

This particular omelette is going to demand the breaking of a fair few eggs and the outcome is not going to be pretty,but we may just emerge with a bit more commonsense at the end of it all ??

JackieT

Axing rent relief? Im not sure that's a great idea, it's only like €300/year if I remember correctly, and it enables the revenue to get a fairly accurate idea of who's renting to whom

djpbarry

JackieT wrote: »

Axing rent relief? Im not sure that's a great idea, it's only like €300/year if I remember correctly, and it enables the revenue to get a fairly accurate idea of who's renting to whom

I think it's the rental supplement that's being discussed. The two are often confused. It cost the state about 440 million last year.

Offy

If I had the power (I could get carried away with that thought) the first thing I would do is get CAB to investigate all the politicians in the country. That would help the government coffers, might even get the country out of debt.

bmaxi

The whole concept of "Lone parents" is one that is widely abused and needs to be more closely policed.
I think it's wrong to set out in the first instance, to target pensioners, who have paid their contributions over the years or unemployed people, who at least have made an effort to contribute to the economy, whilst paying hand over fist for women, for it is mostly women, whose only contribution has been their inability to keep their knees together.
Not 100 yards radius from where I live there are three such individuals, each of whom seems to have an annual or bi-annual visit from the stork. The partner/boyfriend lives with them without fear, it would seem, of ever being taken to task and they can all drive late model cars.
While I can appreciate that some people are lone parents through no fault of their own, and in that instance need our support, there would appear to be a sizeable number who make a profession out of it.

dresden8

bmaxi wrote: »

The whole concept of "Lone parents" is one that is widely abused and needs to be more closely policed.
I think it's wrong to set out in the first instance, to target pensioners, who have paid their contributions over the years or unemployed people, who at least have made an effort to contribute to the economy, whilst paying hand over fist for women, for it is mostly women, whose only contribution has been their inability to keep their knees together.
Not 100 yards radius from where I live there are three such individuals, each of whom seems to have an annual or bi-annual visit from the stork. The partner/boyfriend lives with them without fear, it would seem, of ever being taken to task and they can all drive late model cars.
While I can appreciate that some people are lone parents through no fault of their own, and in that instance need our support, there would appear to be a sizeable number who make a profession out of it.

Stop whining and report them.

bmaxi

dresden8 wrote: »

Stop whining and report them.

Perhaps, before you take such a condescending and patronising attitude, you should establish if I have or not, the answer is yes. Now, have you anything constructive to say?

AlekSmart

Stop whining and report them

Good idea dresden8....however herein lies the nub of the problem.
The situation within the DFSA`s Special Investgations Division is such that it`s scarce resources simply don`t stretch to a lot of ordinary Policing of its own "Schemes".

The reality is that there is Nowhere effective to report these people to,and even if so reported the follow up is often of the "Pre-arranged" visit type..incredible but true.

It is in our Nature to be elated at the "Little" person gettin one over on the big bad State and thats adding to our speed as we enter the Tunnel of Love :eek:

sovtek

I'm waiting to see if they are going to stoop so low as to suggest that they should not extend the dole to non-eu contributors who are now unemployed.
Stop giving billions to banks and you will see the public finances come back under control.

Mena

sovtek wrote: »

I'm waiting to see if they are going to stoop so low as to suggest that they should not extend the dole to non-eu contributors who are now unemployed.
Stop giving billions to banks and you will see the public finances come back under control.

Won't surprise me in the least, but then I want all my PRSI back thanks.

ParkRunner

AlekSmart wrote: »

Good idea dresden8....however herein lies the nub of the problem.
The situation within the DFSA`s Special Investgations Division is such that it`s scarce resources simply don`t stretch to a lot of ordinary Policing of its own "Schemes".

The reality is that there is Nowhere effective to report these people to,and even if so reported the follow up is often of the "Pre-arranged" visit type..incredible but true.

It is in our Nature to be elated at the "Little" person gettin one over on the big bad State and thats adding to our speed as we enter the Tunnel of Love :eek:

+1.

I see an opportunity here to re-deploy civil servants from perhaps the HSE into the DSFA Investigations Unit. Staff from my Department have already gone to Social Welfare to cope with the demand of the rising dole queues but I would like to see more staff doing investigations work. Unfortunately the greed of the minority is going to mean a cut for those who can afford it least.

With incomes being heavily levied and taxed and the price of goods and services falling, social welfare can't be immune to the current crisis.

sovtek

Mena wrote: »

Won't surprise me in the least, but then I want all my PRSI back thanks.

He he that would be great to see the look on Lenihan's face if every immigrant he's screwed as MoJ and now Finance Minister claim their PRSI back.

nice_guy80

nice_guy80 wrote: »

where to start...

axe the rent relief: ok, it will mean a lot of FF TDs tenant's won't be able to pay rent, but the rent is artificially to high anyway due to this government subsidy

tighten up the criteria for the dole: so many people working in the black economy at the moment.

work? put people on the dole to work for 1-2 days per week on social and community schemes.

scrap that childcare allowance given out last year. fund actually childcare facilities across the state

Couldn't bite down on cross-border offenders? God knows, we have people coming in from the north, flying in from Poland and other countries. etc

I'd like to see the welfare system being managed efficiently rather than throwing out money to every tom, dick, and harry simply because they have an EU passport.

As for work, I'd agree with you. I'd also be inclined to apply that to everyone currently on welfare..

[I am on welfare at the moment, although the majority comes from my previous contributions over a decade of working which i never claimed before. Still the dole though.]