Appeal a ban

Eru

Im appealing the one week ban I just got for Trolling.

I dont think I have broken the charter rules and as I was the author of the thread and a regular on ES I fail to see how I can be called a troll.

All I did was respond to a completely outlandish remark made by a real Troll and for some reason I was singled out for banning.

Sorry but I cant look at the thread or post a link as I am banned from the ES forum but its the last post I made today.

Thanks in advance

AlmightyCushion

If you log out you'll be able to view the forum. That way you can post a link to the thread or post that got you banned etc.

Sully

Probably;
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59311963&postcount=42

Orion

Eru wrote: »

All I did was respond to a completely outlandish remark made by a real Troll and for some reason I was singled out for banning.

Next time report the troll. You reacted and got a temp ban - live with it. Just like genuine polis would say

TheNog

Eru, I have communicated many times with you via PM, I have warned posters any times on threads and even put up an announcement for a month warning people exactly about the post you posted yesterday. You were infracted on the 5th March for an aggressive style post.

Like I said to you before, you are a good contributor to the forum but it is a small number of posts that let you down.

In my mind the ban was warranted. If a SMOD thinks differently the so be it.

Eru

Macros42 wrote: »

Next time report the troll. You reacted and got a temp ban - live with it. Just like genuine polis would say

Indeed. Problem is the Nog has decided to defend the troll and ban regular users instead thereby allowing the trolling to continue and voila, real users get pissed off.

DeVore

You are not a mod. Report and leave it alone.

(or are you saying I can follow you around and challenge people who I think are criminals? )

DeV.

TheNog

DeVore wrote: »

You are not a mod. Report and leave it alone.

Eru,
This is the crux of the problem. You are a registered user not a Moderator. By you posting the way you sometimes do you are taking my role into your hands

Eru

TheNog wrote: »

Eru,
This is the crux of the problem. You are a registered user not a Moderator. By you posting the way you sometimes do you are taking my role into your hands

I see where your coming from but where you going to say anything to Cherrypicker or did we have to sit back and wait for him to completely run amok on the forum? Its an ES forum for es personel not a complaints board so I dont think the forum has improved by banning me and keeping him. End of the day, an es forum with bull****ters saying what they like and actual es staff having to bite their tongues isnt an es forum at all. Its a Walter forum.

Not a single one of his comments made sense or was relevent and you know for a fact he was telling porkies. When did the SAS train you because they didnt train me or Deadwood or Jon Anderston or Clara or any of the others that were pissed off with him.

TheNog

This again is typical of some of your posts that does nothing for discussion but yet can be viewed across the forum.

Read the charter, then try to objectively re-read your post.

If our positions were reversed and you were the Mod would you ban me after being warned many times?

I think the answer is yes.

Also this is not about other posters on the forum, its about your posts.

javaboy

Eru wrote: »

End of the day, an es forum with bull****ters saying what they like and actual es staff having to bite their tongues isnt an es forum at all. Its a Walter forum.

You don't have to bite your tongue. Just report the posts the same way everyone else who is not a moderator does. If Walter Mitties are ruining the forum, report them instead of back seat modding or trolling them. It's that simple and it works the exact same way on every other forum here.

Not a single one of his comments made sense or was relevent and you know for a fact he was telling porkies. When did the SAS train you because they didnt train me or Deadwood or Jon Anderston or Clara or any of the others that were pissed off with him.

And how many did you report?

Eru

TheNog wrote: »

This again is typical of some of your posts that does nothing for discussion but yet can be viewed across the forum.

Read the charter, then try to objectively re-read your post.

If our positions were reversed and you were the Mod would you ban me after being warned many times?

I think the answer is yes.

Also this is not about other posters on the forum, its about your posts.

OK fine Nog. Clearly Im the problem not Walters but your going to find yourself banning more and more actual es people for the sake of Walters and no, I would not have banned you. I would have banned the walter trying to **** up the forum earlier and supported the actual longterm es staff that made the forum and care.

And come on dont cloud the issue. You make it sound like its just me but you admitted yourself its not. Its me, Metman, deadwood, Cushtac, Eroo, Clara, jon Anderton and PaulX. Thats a lot of wrong people. In fact it may well be the highest posters and longest members of the es forum.

Fair enough maybe I should report them but then, you were active in the threads so knew what was going on and I dont actually recall action ever being taken after clicking on the report tab.

But anyway, no point in having two threads about the same thing.

Eru

Eru wrote: »

Clearly Im the problem not Walters but your going to find yourself banning more and more actual es people

i'm not sure being a member of the emergency services should exempt you from bannings..

where does that logic end.. it could be applied to every board on the site and there'd be double standards everywhere.

TheNog

Eru wrote: »

deadwood, Eroo, Clara, jon Anderton and PaulX. Thats a lot of wrong people.

These posters dont cause problems so I fail to see why you mention them.

Im going to post here anymore unless there is a valid reason to. Again this is about your posting and ban, no one else. If you cannot see the problem and rectify it Im sure when your week ban is up you will continue to post as before and will be banned again.

Ball is in your court now.

Eru

Deleted User wrote: »

i'm not sure being a member of the emergency services should exempt you from bannings..

where does that logic end.. it could be applied to every board on the site and there'd be double standards everywhere.

Thats not what I meant. My point is banning es staff to save a walter causing trouble will result in an es forum with no actual es staff in it.

well as javaboy said above, the report function in a forum like es should be the main tool to deal with bad posters..

saves you from exactly what has happened here, a ban.. and lets a mod deal with it quickly without the thread going off-topic.

if this route is followed in the future, no es staff would receive any bannings..

therecklessone

Eru wrote: »

OK fine Nog. Clearly Im the problem not Walters but your going to find yourself banning more and more actual es people for the sake of Walters and no, I would not have banned you. I would have banned the walter trying to **** up the forum earlier and supported the actual longterm es staff that made the forum and care.

You are required to comply with the forum charter, that is a long standing boards convention. From my reading of the charter contributions are welcome from non-ES personnel, I don't see what the problem is?

Eru wrote: »

Fair enough maybe I should report them but then, you were active in the threads so knew what was going on and I dont actually recall action ever being taken after clicking on the report tab.

Your opinion and a mod's opinion won't always be the same. That doesn't excuse you, or allow you to step out of line on the forum in response to posts you don't like. You keep saying you're off-duty in here, well stop trying to police the forum and allow the moderator do what he is responsible for.

If you or other regular users of the forum have a problem with how it is developing, then communicate your concerns with the mod and work together to improve the forum. As it stands, the attitude I've seen on the ES forum from certain regulars is killing it, not the so-called walters.

tbh

the problem is that what you think the forum is, and what it actually is, is different. You want a "staff room" where you can chat to fellow professionals and I can respect that. If that's what the forum was, your behaviour could be more easily understood. That's not what the forum is, however. It's a forum for the discussion of all topics relating to es by members of the general public. It's natural that a lot of the regulars would be in the various services, but that doesn't give them the right to stop anyone else posting in there or having their motives for posting questioned. Only the mods have the right to do that. I think, in fairness, that if you can't respect that, then the mods only option is to remove you from the forum.is there a private forum you could use? maybe you could request one?

FlutterinBantam

Exactly. I have never visited the ES forum, and based on recent events probably never will.

However as TBH said, some people seem to believe that the "specialist" forums here are solely for those people employed in those fields.
There was a hint of that in the Aviation Forum too ,but seems to have disappeared.
No forums are the sole stamping ground for those actively involved to broadcast their knowledge, or lack of ,and their opinions,to the detriment of everybody else.
A lot of people are quite mistaken in the opinion that a forum will "die" if the "professionals" decide to back out.

Don't make that mistake my friend.;)

DeVore

Eru, if a fight breaks out near me on the street and I'm standing next to a cop, should I help the cop tackle the guys or should I simply bring it to his attention and let him do his job?

If the cop is watching the fight and clearly aware of it but does nothing, am I then entitled to wade in (because its my street and I feel entitled to defend it from scum)?


Look, I have a great deal of respect for all ES services. I know some cops can be power trippers and I know people who were severely beaten in the Reclaim the Streets protests etc but I've also worked with cops to trace paedos online and had interactions with cops on the street where they were really genuinely human people (shock!).

What I hear in your writing is sheer tiredness and frustration that all you get it the kicks to the balls here and its hard not to simply jump in and for once give these people a piece of your mind. Believe me, I know because there are days when I want to unleash on some people and tell them what I really think and it must be 10 times worse for coppers.

But you cant. You need to do exactly what I have to do when I see scumbags having a go at someone on the street and that is to call the cops and let them do their job.

Its kinda ironic in a funny way that the frustration you are feeling at the mod not handling it the way you would like, or as promptly as you would like is very very VERY similar to the frustration some of the public feel when the police arent as fast as they would like to handle a situation.


You are the well-meaning bystander who wants to help the cops clean up his street but i dont know any cops who would let me jump in and kick the head off a bag-snatcher simply because he was being a ****

DeV.

Eru

DeVore wrote: »

Eru, if a fight breaks out near me on the street and I'm standing next to a cop, should I help the cop tackle the guys or should I simply bring it to his attention and let him do his job?

If the cop is watching the fight and clearly aware of it but does nothing, am I then entitled to wade in (because its my street and I feel entitled to defend it from scum)?


Look, I have a great deal of respect for all ES services. I know some cops can be power trippers and I know people who were severely beaten in the Reclaim the Streets protests etc but I've also worked with cops to trace paedos online and had interactions with cops on the street where they were really genuinely human people (shock!).

What I hear in your writing is sheer tiredness and frustration that all you get it the kicks to the balls here and its hard not to simply jump in and for once give these people a piece of your mind. Believe me, I know because there are days when I want to unleash on some people and tell them what I really think and it must be 10 times worse for coppers.

But you cant. You need to do exactly what I have to do when I see scumbags having a go at someone on the street and that is to call the cops and let them do their job.

Its kinda ironic in a funny way that the frustration you are feeling at the mod not handling it the way you would like, or as promptly as you would like is very very VERY similar to the frustration some of the public feel when the police arent as fast as they would like to handle a situation.


You are the well-meaning bystander who wants to help the cops clean up his street but i dont know any cops who would let me jump in and kick the head off a bag-snatcher simply because he was being a ****

DeV.

If you saw a cop standing back whilr theres a fight happening you would be in es complaining about it

ok ok, I will accept the ban and leave it at that. It appears the es forum is not for es staff but more a complaints department. Can I request that the purpose of the es forum be clarified then?

tallaght01

Eru wrote: »

If you saw a cop standing back whilr theres a fight happening you would be in es complaining about it

ok ok, I will accept the ban and leave it at that. It appears the es forum is not for es staff but more a complaints department. Can I request that the purpose of the es forum be clarified then?

Where has anyone said that it's a complaints department, or that ES staff can't post there?

Eru

tallaght01 wrote: »

Where has anyone said that it's a complaints department, or that ES staff can't post there?

I fail to see why anyone in ES would voluntarily post if the only purpose is to air and discuss grievances against ES. Sure, if AGS paid me to do that I might but Im not going to spend my spare time doing it. As you yourself said, it should be an area for people to post annoyances about ES staff and discuss that annoyance. Therefore a complaints department. You also stated ES staff should not be allowed post advice or as ES staff

In meds your charter is a lot stricter and your users are in fact no more helpful or friendly to people that pop in with an opinion http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055505986. The difference really is that I dont feel the need to post all over meds whereas you think because you can, you should post in the es section. I just fail to see why everyone feels the need to.

tallaght01

Eru wrote: »

I fail to see why anyone in ES would voluntarily post if the only purpose is to air and discuss grievances against ES. Sure, if AGS paid me to do that I might but Im not going to spend my spare time doing it. As you yourself said, it should be an area for people to post annoyances about ES staff and discuss that annoyance. Therefore a complaints department. You also stated ES staff should not be allowed post advice or as ES staff.

I said I felt people should be able to discuss broader issues that they're not happy about. I never said that should be the point of the forum.

I also never said people shouldn't be allowed post as ES staff.

DeVore

Come on now Eru... I never said it was a "complaints department" nor that it should be.

What I'm trying to get you to see is that you (and others to be fair) wading in is JUST AS UNHELPFUL as a well meaning but mistaken member of the public "helping" you with your job as a Garda.

I am by no means condoning what has been said or insinuated by others in your direction and I'll deal with that in time.... but I very much doubt that "well, he started it" cuts much slack with you in the real world :)

TheNog is your mod and he's a good one. Help him by drawing his attention to things you find unacceptible and DONT be a hero and take them on yourself

There is another thread going parallel to this debating what we should allow and not allow in that forum if you want to contribute (positively) to that.


DeV.

civdef

Walter-ish posting is something the mods on the ES take seriously (it's listed in the charter), we've banned plenty for it before - and will do again anytime we catch someone out - if you suspect someone is misrepresnting themselves - and I reckon there are current posters doing so, report it to a mod or challenge it tactfully on the forum without getting personal.

The problem is where you went bald-headed after somone, and got personal. Basically it was Boards.ie style vigilantism. The rules have to apply equally, so you picked up an infraction.

DeVore

Overheal forum-banned for a month for baiting/trolling.

DeV.

Eru

DeVore wrote: »

Overheal forum-banned for a month for baiting/trolling.

DeV.

Sorry is this me your speaking about? And no, it wasnt you that suggested a complaints section. Im merely stating thats what it will become if allowed.

Anyway, Im willing to walk away for the next 6 days and see how things look when I return but in the meantime, how does one go about getting a private sub-forum?

tbh

there's a user called overheal, it's probably in reference to a post which has since been deleted. Nothing to see here

Sherifu

Eru wrote: »

Anyway, Im willing to walk away for the next 6 days and see how things look when I return but in the meantime, how does one go about getting a private sub-forum?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

AckwelFoley

Look, for what its worth, the ban isnt personal. Many of us received then and to be fair, they are not for long. I know it feels a matter of principal but it wont in a few weeks. I once received a ban in ah for an refrence to a gig i was at, which was promoted by those who shall not be mentioned. I thought it was harsh but cest la vie, and i just waited im out.

my advice is to just let it be.

DeVore

I'm going to close this because I believe Eru and I have arrived at an understanding. There is a far more important thread on "What we should allow in the ES forum" going on in the Feedback forum now.

DeV.