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Mr. Nice Guy vs. Eagle Eye

  • 06-03-2009 9:16pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭


    I'm very pleased to be able to introduce to you fine people of the soccer forum my Premiership draft write-up. Firstly I'd like to say I enjoyed the game as well as the spirit of the contest so credit to Lloyd for overseeing everything. Hopefully the good nature of the game will continue. OK then without further ado may I present to you F.C. (First Class) Athletic, a team I hope you'll agree is the classiest, most stylish team of the draft. ;)

    3195094669_812c891a20.jpg?v=0



    Team Formation:

    Defoe

    Bergkamp

    Zenden
    Petit
    Carrick
    Robben

    Heinze----Ferdinand (c)----Brown
    Geremi----

    Van Der Sar


    Right folks I'll break down my argument on why I feel my team is a worthy winner of the contest in three parts. Firstly, I'll explain my overall strategy and line of thinking, secondly I'll give a brief final explanation on why I picked the guys I did, and lastly, I'll give my overall assessment on the strengths and weaknesses of my team. By doing so I hope you'll be impressed with my efforts.

    My strategy:

    I enjoy good, attacking football as I'm sure you all do and I set out from the outset to mould a team that would have great passing and movement. I believed from the beginning that the core areas of all teams would be up front, central defence, central midfield and to a lesser extent on the wings. These are the areas where I feel more often than not games are won and lost.

    I'll be brutally honest here - I think those people in the game who picked full backs and goalkeepers early on made a mistake. I don't see the benefit in choosing an outstanding full back or goalkeeper when, with a bit of patience, you could have gotten very good players in these areas later on. I felt confident I would get a good goalkeeper if I was patient. This turned out to be the case. I also feel I ended up with solid full-backs despite me picking them in the latter half of the draw.

    I was keen to get myself a great, versatile winger early on who could play either flank as I believed this would give me greater scope later on when picking my second winger. For example, if you choose someone who works solely as a left winger you're forced later on choose a right-winger. However if like I did you go for a player like Robben who can work either flank (Duff was in my thoughts too some of you may recall), by adopting this strategy you are free to choose from a wider range of wingers from both flanks later on and you're not leaving yourself limited. I feel that was a smart strategy.

    I think stategy-wise it was important to plan out the importance of not just the players you're thinking of, but also the positions themselves. I would argue I did well in this regard and I hope you'll agree!


    Some final thoughts on my picks...


    Pick 1: Dennis Bergkamp

    3196134274_12332c20f2.jpg?v=0

    I was fortunate in that I was given a fairly early pick in the first round. I can honestly say the only guy I would have wanted ahead of Bergkamp would have been Roy Keane. Bergkamp as I've said before on this board is one of my favourite players of the nineties and is a genuinely world-class player and a legend. I was delighted to get him and I feel he is a magical player that would grace any team.

    Pick 2: Rio Ferdinand

    3196129204_dd4e38b4a0.jpg?v=0

    Ferdinand in truth was a pretty easy pick for me for the second round. I felt I needed to pick a great defender as I planned on prioritising other areas in the next rounds. In Rio I got one of the most praised defenders in the Premiership. As I recall I was going to go with him or Carragher and would have been happy with either as both are leaders. I plumped for Ferdinand as I felt he was a classier option. He will be my team's captain.

    Pick 3: Arjen Robben

    3195288831_0ecef3c792.jpg?v=0

    Robben as I touched on above was the versatile winger I felt I needed and I'm very happy to have him. I'd say one of the most explosive, impactful wingers the Premiership has seen.

    Pick 4: Emmanuel Petit

    3195296183_c0e01e89b5.jpg?v=0

    At this point I turned my attention towards central midfield and felt I needed a defensive-minded player who was also a good passer of the ball. Manu Petit certainly fit the bill as he provided a combatative presence in the middle and yet meant I didn't have to compromise class for brawn.

    Pick 5: Michael Carrick

    3196128978_860a2d86de.jpg?v=0

    I'd decided on the type of midfield I wanted - one that would be built on good passing. I didn't feel I needed an 'attacking midfielder' as I believed in Bergkamp I had the best playmaker around. This pick, as I kind of expected, got a bit of criticism as Carrick is someone that seems to divide people. Personally I believe he does an underrated job at Man United and I think alongside Petit, Carrick would have a great partnership. I reckon they'd compliment each other well. The only other guy I had in my thoughts for this role was Alonso but I felt his dip in form last season for Liverpool meant Carrick was the better overall draft choice.

    Pick 6: Edwin Van Der Sar


    As I mentioned above I felt a bit of patience would lead to a good goalkeeper pick and I feel relative to the rounds, Edwin Van Der Sar was one of my better picks. To get a guy I consider a man for the big occasion at round 6 was very pleasing. I'd acknowledge he's had his shaky moments at times but I think overall he's been an outstanding success at United and the best goalkeeper since Schmeichel.

    Pick 7: Jermain Defoe



    At this point I felt I needed to act fast to ensure I had a true goal machine up front. Defoe was the logical choice. His stats speak for themselves and alongside Bergkamp I felt the two of them would pose a frightening threat.

    Pick 8: Wes Brown



    I regarded Brown as a really important pick. I was surprised he was left at round 8 as he can do a fine job in two positions. My only concern really was where I would play him but because as mentioned above I don't really rate the full-back positions as that significant, I felt more confident having him play alongside Rio.

    Pick 9: Gabriel Heinze


    Again, relative to the rounds this was probably one of my better picks. To get such a talented guy in the third-last round was a great bonus.

    Pick 10: Boudewijn Zenden


    Initially I had gone for Stewart Downing not realising the guy had been picked beforehand but I'm happy to end up with my second choice of Zenden. I think Downing would have provided a better crossing ability for me but I think in my team that's not really going to be that important. With my team I think wingers who can run at defenders and link up with the front men matters more so I think my two Dutch wingers provide a good threat for me.

    Pick 11: Geremi

    3195285571_7a45050e14.jpg?v=0

    Right-back was the last slot I needed and other than Geremi I considered Abel Xavier and a few others but I felt Geremi was the smartest choice available to me as he is strong and a good distributor, plus he can provide some set-piece competition with Bergkamp. I also felt the Robben/Geremi partnership on the right was a nice Chelsea-style combination.

    My overall thoughts:

    Funnily enough when I look at this team I think this is the kind of team Giovanni Trapattoni would give his right arm to have. It strikes me as a formation and style similar to the current Irish one. The central midfielders in my team won't be asked to do anything too elaborate. Just keep things tight and distribute to the wings and forwards. I feel my defence and goalkeeper are as solid as any in the game. I also feel I have wingers who can cause problems, a legend in Bergkamp who can pull the strings and in Defoe, a goal machine who can take chances that come his way.

    I see this team's major strength being in its passing play. I have players comfortable on the ball whose job would be to try and get it to the quicker, pacier players. I feel this is a team that won't leak many goals but will create many chances. I think that's a fair assessment when you look at the talent on show.

    I also feel I have created a team of winners, something I spoke of often when making my picks. My back four and goalkeeper for example have all won the Premiership. In fact only two players in my team haven't won the league, Defoe and Zenden. Five of my eleven have won the Champions League. One of them has won a World Cup. So this is not a team that is going to panic if it encounters some difficulty.

    What are my team's weaknesses? Well I think my main concern would probably be the defensive nature of my wingers. I'd be concerned that Zenden and Robben whilst good up front, wouldn't be thorough enough in getting back and helping out. I would hope that the full-backs behind them would be able to cover in such instances and that my deep-sitting central midfield would be able to deputise too. I believe they would.

    Overall I think this is a team with enough class, resilience, tenacity and ingenuity to be able to provide a tough match-up for any team. I feel my team strikes the best balance in attack and defence. I feel it's able to cause problems for opposition back fours and yet able enough to fend off and deal with attacking threats. I guess that's up to others to determine though.

    Well that about sums up my case and assuming you've read this far I thank you for your time and hope you've been suitably impressed. Cheers. :cool:


    vs.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    My team name: The Eagle Rovers

    1. Neville Southall
    One of the best the Premiership has seen. A legend of the game and one of the greatest keepers ever. He made incredible stops time and time again. He was magnificent in Evertons last FA Cup win in 1995 against Manchester United for which he received the Man of the Match award. He was the first player to make 200 Premier League appearances. He is one of the few goalkeepers to have won a football of the year award but that was before the Premier League began. The MBE award in 1997 was a fitting tribute to his legendardy career.


    l7334684977_6214.jpg

    2. Roland Nilsson

    Roland was the best full back bar Denis Irwin that I have seen play in the Premier League. There are some good full backs currently in the league who might over time be considered as good or maybe even better than those two, but at this moment I have yet to see a better right back play the game in England. Roland played his best years with Sheffield Wednesday, he is in their hall of fame and is a legend among supporters of Wednesday. He came back to the Premier League at 34 years of age and showed he was still a top full back when he played with Coventry City until he retired in 1999. I am certain that I have the best right back in this draft. With 116 caps for his coutry he has shown just how consistently good he was thoughout his career.

    roland_nilsson_365x470.jpg

    5, Marin Laursen

    Martin Laursen is well known to all and without doubt for me is currently the best Centreback playing outside of the big four in the Premier League, some would argue that he is the best including them, but I rate his partner in my team as that. Laursen has been top class for a long time now, and has overcome injury to come back and regain his place as one of the best in the world in his position. He is known for his fearlessness and his magnificent ability to head the ball. He is so dangerous from corner kicks in the opposing box also, a talent that Martin O'Neill has used to full affect over the last two seasons. Lionheart was both the Aston Villa supporters player of the year last season and also received the Denmark player of the year award. He has been promoted by Martin O'Neill to Club Captain of Aston Villa. His goal scorng record is incredible over the past season and a half for a Centre Back. I'm not sure of exact numbers right now, but he has definitely over ten for Villa in the last year or so. Laursen will be my leader at the back.

    article-1036790-0202C10B00000578-787_468x357.jpg

    6. Nemanja Vidic

    Nemanja Vidic joined Manchester United in January 2006. United went on an incredible run shortly after he joined them and at one stage reduced the gap between them and Chelsea from 18 points down to only 7 points. He has been magnificent for them ever since. United have won two League titles and the Champions League in the two full seasons he has been with the club, he has been in the Premier League team of year on both occasions and received his second Serbian football of the year award in 2008. He has been shortlisted for all the major awards as a defender in both those seasons also. Along with Martin Laursen he is one of the best headers of a ball in the League and is a real danger to the opposition from Corner Kicks. His aggressive style of defence is a joy to watch, and I don't think I have ever seen anybody else who can play that way and be successful at it.

    vidicbig.jpg

    3. Alan Wright

    Alan Wright was a dependable left back, loved at Aston Villa during his time there, he was previously part of the Blackburn Rovers squad that won the Premier League. He was always highly regarded and his fee of 1 million sterling when moving to Villa in the summer of 1995 is a testament to just how good he was. He spent the next eight years at Villa Park. He was an excellent tacker and possessed incredible speed which was often used to set up quick counter attacks. Alan Wright completes my back four.



    4. Claude Makelele

    Well what can you say about this man, they thought they had a replacement for him at Chelsea, but since his departure things seem to be getting worse and meanwhile his new team PSG in France which struggled last year is flying high in Ligue1. Makelele was the engine in the Chelsea team that won two Premier Leagues in a row. He is widely regarded by those who have played with him to be the best they have played with. When the Real Madrid Galacticos lost him to Chelsea, their team fell apart very quickly. Frank Lampard has said that once he played with him he understood what the other greats that had played with him were talking about. Claude will be my engine room in my team, he will stop my awesome defence from having to deal with a lot of pressure and set up attacks with his immaculate passing ability. I can't see many goals being scored against my side with this man in front of an awesome defence.


    11. Andy Townsend

    He liked the 11 shirt and I'll give it to him. Andy Townsend is my workhorse, my box to box midfielder. Andy was another leader of men, he worked tirelessly for both club and country. Andy's £2.2 million pounds trasfer fee when moving to Aston Villa was one of the biggest fees payed out in the early days of the Premier League. His performances for Ireland were such that he kept Roy Keane out of the team for a long time. A fantastic midfielder he will be available when Claude looks for him and will cause opposing defences to spread due to his accurate passing and also the fact that he possesses a wicked shot from distance. I'm choosing Andy as my Team Captain.



    8. Jason Wilcox

    Jason was a mainstay in the Blackburn Rovers team that won the Premier League and stayed with the club for a long time after that playing 271 times in total and scoring 31 goals. He eventually moved on to Leeds United in 1999 where he displaced Harry Kewell on the left side of midfield with his consistently high class displays. One of the best Corner Kick takers in the Premier League he will be my no.1 corner taker on both sides of the pitch. His link up play makes him very dangerous and his crossing ability is as good as it gets in football. With Alan Wrights speed he can set up attacks down the left with his link up play.


    10. Steve Stone

    Steve was one of the crucial players in the Nottingham Forest team that has a great Premier Leauge run in the '90s, he was eveywhere on the pitch for them but his ability on the right side of the pitch earned him rave reviews and also England caps. He was bought for big money by Aston Villa and was rumoured to be moving to Manchester United after only one season at Aston Villa. His career took a down turn shortly after that with the arrival of Graham Taylor at Villa Park. He moved to Portsmouth and was a vital part of their promotion and played for them in the Premier League until that great French manager Alain Perrin:rolleyes: decided to release him. He moved to Leeds and struggled from his arrival there with injury before he eventually had to retire from injury at the end of the '95/96 season. Steve will play down the right side for me and he will move in from time to time depending on the opposition as he can be dangeous when he does having scored 37 league goals during his career as well as assisting well over 100 times. He will be my no.2 corner taker staying out there with Jason Wilcox for most corners.



    7. Peter Beardsley

    The little wizard was to me the Mardona of the Premier League. He was magnificent for Newcastle and provided most of the assists in Andy Cole's record breaking season with Newcastle. He also scored plenty himself. I will play the maestro in the hole just behind Alan Shearer. With both Stone and Wilcox well able to provide crosses and this man able to cut open defences with ball at his feet or by passing it, I'm salivating at the prospect of opoosing defences being ripped apart. Having tremendous tacklers behind him in Makele and Townsend he does not have to worry about taking chances. He is a one of a kind in this draft, there is no player that posesses the ability to beat players and create opportunities for others like this man. I was completly shocked when I was able to pick this man up with the 76th pick in the draft.


    9. Alan Shearer

    Well what can you say, what can you say? I have the most potent goalscoring machine in the history of the Premier League, nobody has come close to equalling this man's records. I have so much class to provide for this man and he and Beardsley are the biggest nightmare partnership for any defence. They can both score goals from anywhere, they can both go it alone or lay it on for the other man. I see this as the best partnership possible in this draft. Alan Shearer will take my free kicks and penalties.


    I am extremely happy with my team, I have winners all over the pitch, I expect to score 2+ goals per game and I don't see how anybody can put goals past with any consistency so I expect to concede less than .5 goals per game with my defence. I have two ball winners in the centre of the park and two exceptional passers in Makelele and Townesend, I have one of the best link up players that ever played the game in Jason Wilcox.

    When we go to this cup thing, I will provide tactics after I see who I am playing.

    MNG vs. Eagle Eye 42 votes

    MNG
    0%
    Eagle Eye
    100%
    RasTaastrofoolPiEVokesDont be at yourselfBounty HunterChongGuanYinIagoUnearthlyHeadshotbohsmanShiverinEskimoJazzyMr.Nice Guypwdwhatawasterdor83Mitch Connoranonymous_joe 42 votes


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Team Formation:

    Southall

    Nielsen
    Laursen
    Vidic
    Wright
    Makele
    Stone
    Townsend
    Wilcox
    Beardsley

    Shearer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What immediately stands out to me about Mr Nice Guy's team is the injury prone injury prone players in his line up. I think he is weak at left back, Gabriel Heinze played only 52 league games for Manchester United, the most being in his first season at 26 appearances, he had a good start for United but I feel he was never the same player after his injury and is only average imo. Also he has Zenden who made 23 appearances in two years at Liverpool and Arjen Robben who only made 67 appearances over 3 years for Chelsea averaging just over 22 games a season. Even Wes Brown who I don't rate as a centre half has made only 205 appearances over the 12 seasons since he first appeared in the first team for United. Thats a shocking average of less than 20 games per season and includes only two seasons where he played more than 25 games. Then we have Geremi who had 48 starts and 24 substitutes at Chelsea over four seasons averaging a shocking 18 games per season while there and made 27 appearances for Newcastle last season.

    Thats five players who don't stand up to the rigours of a full season.

    I feel that his team is very susceptible to attacks from the wings. Firstly he has two very injury prone full backs, both full backs have questionable form also with Geremi more commonly a midfielder who has occasionally played at right back. On the other side is Gabriel Heinze who imo was average when you consider his whole time in the Premier League and not just his first season.
    I will be using the wings to attack this team. I feel my wide players expecially Jason Wilcox will have an easy time of it. I expect Wilcox to provide many crosses against this side and with both Alan Shearer there to meet them and with assistance from Mr Wes 'Own Goal' Brown himself I see many goals for my team from this sort of attack.
    On the other side Steve Stone is a tough nut and not easily taken down, he might not deliver the same amount of crosses in fairness as Heinze could tackle, but from the resultant corners I am licking my lips at the thoughts of his defence trying to deal with the three pronged airial bombardment of Messrs. Shearer, Vidic and the greatest header of a ball in the Word Martin Laursen.

    Over the course of a season I see my team comfortably beating his frail lineup.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Eagle Eye
    I am happy enough with this draw to be honest because I honestly believe eagle eye's team is probably the weakest team I've come up against in the contest thus far. I'll explain why below using the system I did in the last round.

    Defense

    This is a real problem area for him I feel. Southall's best days were behind him in his Premiership run. He does have two admirable, strong, gutsy central defenders ahead of him in Vidic and Laursen, though for me they would be better suited to dealing with two strong, gutsy strikers. Unfortunately for eagle eye many of the teams he would come up against would not fit this bill and my pairing of Bergkamp and Defoe certainly don't! I am confident in a one-on-one match they would create numerous chances and then finish some of those chances off. At the full-back positions he is extremely weak indeed. Nielsen and Wright strike fear into no one. I would immediately urge Robben and Zenden to go for the jugular in that area. In a straight-up match between ourselves - with his defenders getting pulled wide - Bergkamp and Defoe would have an absolute field day with the space. I think a lot of teams in the draft would actually.

    My central pairing of Ferdinand and Brown will prove a match for any team, ably supported by Geremi and Heinze in the full-back positions, with Van Der Sar in goal. This is not a team which is going to concede many over the course of a season. I feel compared to eagle eye's defence, over the course of a season, I'd concede around twenty fewer goals at the very least. That will prove important.

    Midfield

    In terms of central midfield options I do not believe his pair complement each other as well as mine do. As I said in a previous post, the real heart of my team is its central core and while Makelele is one of the best holding midfielders around, and while Townsend was an industrious player with a good engine, realistically this is not a pair that is going to be able to dominate possession which I feel is of crucial importance. I believe my pairing of Carrick and Petit would do just that. In a one on one match I feel my team would have at least 60% possession which would be very bad news indeed for his team which has a brittle full-back pairing and with my attacking options being what they are.

    On the wings, Stone and Wilcox aren't going to do much damage in my opinion. I can't see those two causing headaches against my guys and with Heinze and Geremi facing them, I can't see them hurting my team much if at all.

    Attack

    Clearly his strength in his team is up front. Shearer is one of the greatest strikers in Premiership history of course and Beardsley could still be effective in his Premiership run - but there is a big problem. My concern for eagle eye is that he has not gone and placed enough emphasis on midfield. It's all well and good having two quality strikers but if you can't supply them then you are in big trouble! A midfield quartet of Stone, Townsend, Makelele and Wilcox are not going to provide Shearer with the ammunition he needs over the course of a season. No way.

    My attacking pair of Bergkamp and Defoe, supported by Robben, Carrick, Petit and Zenden, will be assured of plenty of the ball over the course of a season and indeed up against eagle eye. I feel my team would score probably around twenty goals more minimum in a season.

    eagle eye's criticisms

    I think the fact his first paragraph was directed at the idea my players could pick up injuries is pretty telling about his real thoughts. At the end of the day we have no squad in this game so I don't see the point in pondering potential wear and tear since the point of the game is to see how the players we pick would perform over the course of a season. I'm confident mine would perform better. I think he suspects this as well.

    I'm frankly ASTONISHED that he feels the best way to get at my team is on the flanks when I'm certain that is where he is weakest. He wants to pit Jason Wilcox against Geremi on the wings? Fine by me. He wants to have Steve Stone go against Gabriel Heinze? Your funeral, mate. If his plan to get Shearer involved is that way then the great Geordie is going to have a miserable afternoon. By the way, I'm quite confident in Brown and Ferdinand, who kept Messi and Henry quiet last year, handling eagle eye's efforts. I can't remember when Brown scored an OG last so I think that's a pretty desperate jibe on a guy who has made the PFA Team of the Year as a central defender.

    eagle eye adds he is 'licking his lips' at the thought of getting corners and the 'aerial bombardment' on my defense. What I want to know is, how are you going to get corners and aerial bombardment when your team won't even have the ball? Or are we to believe Townsend and Makelele are going to play Arsenal-style football? I think my pairing of Petit and Carrick are more likely to do that. Your team will experience aerial bombardment alright but it will be from Robben and co. terrorising Nielsen and Wright on the wings and other teams no doubt attempting similar.

    Also I think the only one licking his lips will be Shearer who will be starved of chances all game. ;)

    Summary

    Over the course of a season in this draft I actually believe eagle eye's team would be lower half of the league. I doubt he'd make the relegation places as I'm sure Shearer and Beardsley would take the chances that do come their way, but good teams like mine ought to be able to dominate his limited midfield quartet, weak flanks, and goalkeeper who'd seen his best years go by.

    I reckon my team would be a title contender and would be very optimistic of taking 6 points against eagle eye over the course of a season. I believe I am better in every department and I would hope the good folks of Boards would conclude the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I am happy enough with this draw to be honest because I honestly believe eagle eye's team is probably the weakest team I've come up against in the contest thus far. I'll explain why below using the system I did in the last round.

    Defense

    This is a real problem area for him I feel. Southall's best days were behind him in his Premiership run. He does have two admirable, strong, gutsy central defenders ahead of him in Vidic and Laursen, though for me they would be better suited to dealing with two strong, gutsy strikers. Unfortunately for eagle eye many of the teams he would come up against would not fit this bill and my pairing of Bergkamp and Defoe certainly don't! I am confident in a one-on-one match they would create numerous chances and then finish some of those chances off. At the full-back positions he is extremely weak indeed. Nielsen and Wright strike fear into no one. I would immediately urge Robben and Zenden to go for the jugular in that area. In a straight-up match between ourselves - with his defenders getting pulled wide - Bergkamp and Defoe would have an absolute field day with the space. I think a lot of teams in the draft would actually.
    I find this laughable, first you say that Vidic and Laursen are only able to deal with a certain type of attacker. You mention you don't have a gutsy striker, I think that shows another weakness in your team. You are expecting flair to come through, I suggest your team is too frail to have any impact. Tell me where this flair will come from, you mention Robben and Zenden going for the jugular, tell me how. You are criticising imo the best right full back ever to play in the Premiership in Roland Nielsen. I have a left back full of pace on the other side which is exactly the type of guy you need to mark Robben. And that is of course on the odd occasion that both your wide players are fit enough to perform their tasks. As for your assertion that Bergkamp and Defoe are going to have a 'field day' with space, lol. Where are you seeing this space? In between Makele and my central defensive pairing?
    My central pairing of Ferdinand and Brown will prove a match for any team, ably supported by Geremi and Heinze in the full-back positions, with Van Der Sar in goal. This is not a team which is going to concede many over the course of a season. I feel compared to eagle eye's defence, over the course of a season, I'd concede around twenty fewer goals at the very least. That will prove important.
    Geremi is not a full back. Plain and simple, he has played there but he is a midfielder. He is very average as a full back to say the least. Heinze was very good as I said during his first season, after that injury I'm afraid he has never reached that standard again and over the course of his entire career he is no better than average. How does your team do when they are both hobbling around the place along with Wes Brown?
    You attack the legendary goalkeeper Neville Southall. I mentioned when I picked him that he was the first player in the Premier League to reach 200 appearances, hardly an achievement you would expect from someone whose past it. And be honest your assertion is just laughable anyways and probably like so many of your other attacks trying to sway the minds of those who don't remember all my players.
    Midfield

    In terms of central midfield options I do not believe his pair complement each other as well as mine do. As I said in a previous post, the real heart of my team is its central core and while Makelele is one of the best holding midfielders around, and while Townsend was an industrious player with a good engine, realistically this is not a pair that is going to be able to dominate possession which I feel is of crucial importance. I believe my pairing of Carrick and Petit would do just that. In a one on one match I feel my team would have at least 60% possession which would be very bad news indeed for his team which has a brittle full-back pairing and with my attacking options being what they are.

    On the wings, Stone and Wilcox aren't going to do much damage in my opinion. I can't see those two causing headaches against my guys and with Heinze and Geremi facing them, I can't see them hurting my team much if at all.
    In midfield you have a strong central pairing, that is if I am going to attack up the centre. You have two deep lying midfielders, I will keep them busy with Andy Townsend buzzing around the pitch and Beardsley coming deeper from time to time. However there is nothing attack minded about your midfield at all and I am certain that my midfield pairing negates any attacking threat through the middle. So now you are back to the two frail wide men again.
    Its very important that your team stand the test of a full season, you are trying to dismiss this but you can't. I mentioned five players who will have problems in this department. You have no defense for this, in fact three of them are defenders and the other two are your wide men which leaves you trying to beat me through the centre and thats not going to happen.
    Attack

    Clearly his strength in his team is up front. Shearer is one of the greatest strikers in Premiership history of course and Beardsley could still be effective in his Premiership run - but there is a big problem. My concern for eagle eye is that he has not gone and placed enough emphasis on midfield. It's all well and good having two quality strikers but if you can't supply them then you are in big trouble! A midfield quartet of Stone, Townsend, Makelele and Wilcox are not going to provide Shearer with the ammunition he needs over the course of a season. No way.

    My attacking pair of Bergkamp and Defoe, supported by Robben, Carrick, Petit and Zenden, will be assured of plenty of the ball over the course of a season and indeed up against eagle eye. I feel my team would score probably around twenty goals more minimum in a season.
    I have shown in my formation that Beardsley will play in the hole. Beardsley can beat anybody on his own, that ability means defenders have to stand off him a bit and this allows him the room to create, he needed very little room to create(note 23 assists in 93/94). I have the best striker in the business in Alan Shearer, he does not need many opportunities to put the ball in the net. Its laughable that you think Wes Brown will be able to prevent anything, imo he is more likely to make mistakes and create chances for Sherer and Beardsley and the only result of this is goals for my team. Without a tough tackling central defender you have no hope of stopping my attacking threat through the middle but I don't even need to go through the middle due to the acres of space I will have out wide with your players hobbling around the place half the time.

    You mention a game where Brown and Ferdinand had a clean sheet. Firstly it was a Champion's League game and is irrelevant to this Premier League draft. Its also one game and over the course of a campaign the defensive errors of Wes Brown at center back will be costly, again when he is not hobbling around the place.
    eagle eye's criticisms

    I think the fact his first paragraph was directed at the idea my players could pick up injuries is pretty telling about his real thoughts. At the end of the day we have no squad in this game so I don't see the point in pondering potential wear and tear since the point of the game is to see how the players we pick would perform over the course of a season. I'm confident mine would perform better. I think he suspects this as well.

    I'm frankly ASTONISHED that he feels the best way to get at my team is on the flanks when I'm certain that is where he is weakest. He wants to pit Jason Wilcox against Geremi on the wings? Fine by me. He wants to have Steve Stone go against Gabriel Heinze? Your funeral, mate. If his plan to get Shearer involved is that way then the great Geordie is going to have a miserable afternoon. By the way, I'm quite confident in Brown and Ferdinand, who kept Messi and Henry quiet last year, handling eagle eye's efforts. I can't remember when Brown scored an OG last so I think that's a pretty desperate jibe on a guy who has made the PFA Team of the Year as a central defender.
    Jason Wilcox was a fantastic left midfielder/winger, you don't have a defender on that side of the field, and you are expecting Geremi who is a midfielder to negate this threat when he is not hobbling around the park. On his very best day Geremi would not stop Jason Wilcox.
    Steve Stone was a sturdy no nonsense right midfield player, one of Henze's common traits at United was pulling and dragging at lightweight wide players and although he could tackle, he is not getting many opportunities to dispossess a player of the quality of Steve Stone who is well able to protect himself and the ball. I contend that Heinze is left in the position of either fouling the player or somehow getting the ball into touch, he certainly won't be footballing his way out of defence against Steve Stone when in possession, and he certainly won't be taking the ball off Steve Stone without help and the likelyhood is that he has no help for most of his games as when he is not injured, then Zenden is injured. Therefore I see a good battle with many corners/free kicks coming my way from wide on the right when Heinze is not hobbling around the place during one of his 17/18 games a season.
    eagle eye adds he is 'licking his lips' at the thought of getting corners and the 'aerial bombardment' on my defense. What I want to know is, how are you going to get corners and aerial bombardment when your team won't even have the ball? Or are we to believe Townsend and Makelele are going to play Arsenal-style football? I think my pairing of Petit and Carrick are more likely to do that. Your team will experience aerial bombardment alright but it will be from Robben and co. terrorising Nielsen and Wright on the wings and other teams no doubt attempting similar.

    Also I think the only one licking his lips will be Shearer who will be starved of chances all game. ;)
    I explained how I am going to get the corners on the left side. I expect delivery from the right as Wilcox has a free reign with no defender of note on his side of the pitch.
    You bring up Arsenal style football, who said I want to play Arsenal style football? My team tactics here are a polar opposite to that type of football, firstly I expect my goals against your team when its fully fit to come from crosses, free kicks and corners and not by walking the ball into the net. Secondly I have a guy up front who can head the ball or score with both feet in Alan Shearer.
    You are right though, against the right type of opposition my team can play those tactics.
    Summary

    Over the course of a season in this draft I actually believe eagle eye's team would be lower half of the league. I doubt he'd make the relegation places as I'm sure Shearer and Beardsley would take the chances that do come their way, but good teams like mine ought to be able to dominate his limited midfield quartet, weak flanks, and goalkeeper who'd seen his best years go by.

    I reckon my team would be a title contender and would be very optimistic of taking 6 points against eagle eye over the course of a season. I believe I am better in every department and I would hope the good folks of Boards would conclude the same.
    The ridiculous comments above are a desperate attempt to cover the cracks in your team.
    I submit that my fellow dratees will be able to see far beyond your laugable comments that my team would be in the lower half of a table.
    In fact with the amount of injury prone players, and with Geremi at right back and Wes Brown at center back, I submit that your team might indeed be in trouble over the course of a full season.
    If you want to do a player vs player analysis you are welcome to try, but please don't forget to take marks off for injury and that would be huge in relation to your team. I believe that if I was to mark your team players out of ten while including the injury prone nature and the players out of position that your teams total team rating would be close to if not less than 50 which is pathetic.

    You tried a neat trick in this draft imo in picking players who have all played in recent times so as not to run the risk of losing out because somebody doesn't remember the players. You took a further huge risk by picking players who were very injury prone. A quick glance over your team looks good, but with indepth analysis of each player your team does not stand up to the rigours of a full premier league campaign and over the course of a season you get rightly hammered many times. Your defense is particularly frail and against a solid and dependable front line of Shearer and Beardsley you will concede a large number of goals. In midfield you also fail due to the injury prone nature of both Zenden and Robben. I suggest that this leaves me free to unleash my full backs on either side for half my games over the season against you. I believe that once off with all your players fit we will have a great game but over the course of a season you have no chance.

    Finally:
    I think the fact his first paragraph was directed at the idea my players could pick up injuries is pretty telling about his real thoughts. At the end of the day we have no squad in this game so I don't see the point in pondering potential wear and tear since the point of the game is to see how the players we pick would perform over the course of a season.
    Clearly like any good tactician I am going to focus on your weaknesses and you have many, not alone the injuries but having players out of position. You play Wes Brown and CB, Geremi at RB, Robben at RM.
    I submit that your team is not alone weakened through injury but by having players in positions where they do not perform at their very best.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Eagle Eye
    Yikes, must have hit a nerve! I'll try and answer your points though since I've a spare hour or so. ;)
    eagle eye wrote: »
    I find this laughable, first you say that Vidic and Laursen are only able to deal with a certain type of attacker. You mention you don't have a gutsy striker, I think that shows another weakness in your team. You are expecting flair to come through, I suggest your team is too frail to have any impact. Tell me where this flair will come from, you mention Robben and Zenden going for the jugular, tell me how. You are criticising imo the best right full back ever to play in the Premiership in Roland Nielsen. I have a left back full of pace on the other side which is exactly the type of guy you need to mark Robben. And that is of course on the odd occasion that both your wide players are fit enough to perform their tasks. As for your assertion that Bergkamp and Defoe are going to have a 'field day' with space, lol. Where are you seeing this space? In between Makele and my central defensive pairing?

    I didn't say your central defenders were 'only able to deal with a certain type of attacker', I said they were 'better suited' to attackers that are used to using brute strength. Do you disagree? Do you think Vidic and Laursen have more class and craft than Bergkamp and Defoe? I didn't mean to suggest my strikers have no guts. I don't think anyone would accuse Bergkamp of that in particular. :cool: I'm merely noting your defenders would have an easier time against the likes of a Heskey or a Kevin Davies and not a Bergkamp or a Defoe. I stand by that. Where is the frailty in my team eagle eye? Most of them have won titles, several have won Champions Leagues and one has won a World Cup. You say you want me to show you my team's flair? Must I? Where is it lacking? Do you see my team struggling to get goals in a season? I'm criticising one of the best full-backs ever in Roland Nilsson am I? Hardly. Not even close. You claim Alan Wright is marking Robben for pace but the trouble is he won't be able to keep up with him! Where am I seeing the space you ask? Well mainly with Robben and Zenden pulling your full-backs apart. Makelele is a great holding midfielder and can tidy up a lot of problems, but not even he can fill in for two flawed full-backs and a pairing of Carrick and Petit that will dictate possession. You're asking a lot of a guy who by this stage was in his late thirties!
    eagle eye wrote:
    Geremi is not a full back. Plain and simple, he has played there but he is a midfielder. He is very average as a full back to say the least. Heinze was very good as I said during his first season, after that injury I'm afraid he has never reached that standard again and over the course of his entire career he is no better than average. How does your team do when they are both hobbling around the place along with Wes Brown?

    I would take Geremi (who I got as my final pick) over your Roland Nilsson any day. I have a guy that was entrusted by Jose Mourinho of all people in the right full position. Heinze was a terrific left-back at Man Utd and is better than any of your full-backs. Probably combined. How he did over the course of his career is irrelevant as he is judged on his Premiership career which was damn good. This tactic of yours to hope for injuries for my team is most amusing since we all have to deal with 11 players only and judge them over a season. Pretty desperate imo.
    eagle eye wrote:
    You attack the legendary goalkeeper Neville Southall. I mentioned when I picked him that he was the first player in the Premier League to reach 200 appearances, hardly an achievement you would expect from someone whose past it. And be honest your assertion is just laughable anyways and probably like so many of your other attacks trying to sway the minds of those who don't remember all my players.

    I don't think I 'attacked' Neville Southall. I said his best years were behind him which is my view. I think most people would share that. I'd accept prior to the Premiership he was one of the best goalkeepers around but this is a Premiership draft and in that sense he's only an average keeper in this game.
    eagle eye wrote:
    In midfield you have a strong central pairing, that is if I am going to attack up the centre. You have two deep lying midfielders, I will keep them busy with Andy Townsend buzzing around the pitch and Beardsley coming deeper from time to time. However there is nothing attack minded about your midfield at all and I am certain that my midfield pairing negates any attacking threat through the middle. So now you are back to the two frail wide men again.

    I liked Andy Townsend as much as any Irish fan but if you're telling me he is going to single-handedly keep Michael Carrick and Emmanuel Petit quiet then I think you're being extremely optimistic, and dare I say it deluded. Beardsley is going to help him is he? Sure mate well that negates him from causing me problems high up the pitch. I agree Townsend will be 'buzzing' around the pitch alright but only as he chases Petit and Carrick passing the ball about the park. Also how are Robben and Zenden frail when they were both established internationals for Holland?

    Let's add that we are judging this over a season. Will this be your tactic for other games against other teams? Defensive play?
    eagle eye wrote:
    Its very important that your team stand the test of a full season, you are trying to dismiss this but you can't. I mentioned five players who will have problems in this department. You have no defense for this, in fact three of them are defenders and the other two are your wide men which leaves you trying to beat me through the centre and thats not going to happen.

    I'm not dismissing anything. The rules of the game are as stated. You seem to want to pray that my team catches injuries. You might as well suggest doping them before a game in the hope they fail a drug test! Let's stick to the rules and judge the teams over a season. I'm not afraid to pit my team against yours. Also I won't be trying to beat you through the centre eagle eye, although if I did I still believe I have the advantage.
    eagle eye wrote:
    I have shown in my formation that Beardsley will play in the hole. Beardsley can beat anybody on his own, that ability means defenders have to stand off him a bit and this allows him the room to create, he needed very little room to create(note 23 assists in 93/94). I have the best striker in the business in Alan Shearer, he does not need many opportunities to put the ball in the net. Its laughable that you think Wes Brown will be able to prevent anything, imo he is more likely to make mistakes and create chances for Sherer and Beardsley and the only result of this is goals for my team. Without a tough tackling central defender you have no hope of stopping my attacking threat through the middle but I don't even need to go through the middle due to the acres of space I will have out wide with your players hobbling around the place half the time.

    Beardsley is in a hole alright, but only due to your tactics. Wes Brown did pretty well against Lionel Messi last season at centre-back but you think Beardsley will best him do you? Rio Ferdinand meanwhile isn't going to be intimidated by any forwards. I respect your front pairing as I said previously, but without service they can't harm me. You already intimated in a previous post that you want Beardsley to help out Townsend in central midfield so that sounds like Shearer will be left all alone up top. As for my players hobbling, I think my defense will be very well rested from the sound of things. ;)
    eagle eye wrote:
    You mention a game where Brown and Ferdinand had a clean sheet. Firstly it was a Champion's League game and is irrelevant to this Premier League draft. Its also one game and over the course of a campaign the defensive errors of Wes Brown at center back will be costly, again when he is not hobbling around the place.

    It's not irrelevant at all to point out that Ferdinand and Brown have been able to deal with arguably the most impressive attacking outfit on the planet. You see fit to try and besmirch Wes Brown at centre-back when he has been a PFA Team of the Year member there and done admirably whenever Fergie has used him there. I am in good hands.
    eagle eye wrote:
    Jason Wilcox was a fantastic left midfielder/winger, you don't have a defender on that side of the field, and you are expecting Geremi who is a midfielder to negate this threat when he is not hobbling around the park. On his very best day Geremi would not stop Jason Wilcox.
    Steve Stone was a sturdy no nonsense right midfield player, one of Henze's common traits at United was pulling and dragging at lightweight wide players and although he could tackle, he is not getting many opportunities to dispossess a player of the quality of Steve Stone who is well able to protect himself and the ball. I contend that Heinze is left in the position of either fouling the player or somehow getting the ball into touch, he certainly won't be footballing his way out of defence against Steve Stone when in possession, and he certainly won't be taking the ball off Steve Stone without help and the likelyhood is that he has no help for most of his games as when he is not injured, then Zenden is injured. Therefore I see a good battle with many corners/free kicks coming my way from wide on the right when Heinze is not hobbling around the place during one of his 17/18 games a season.

    If Jose Mourinho had faced up to the prospect of Wilcox facing Geremi I do not think he'd be worried. Neither am I. Steve Stone was an average to good player in my view. For me Heinze was a great to terrific left-back. There really is no concern for me in this area of the field.

    Again you keep focusing on the one-on-one element but I'd like you to explain how Wilcox and Stone will provide ammunition for Shearer over the course of a season. I don't think they would, nor indeed against my team.
    eagle eye wrote:
    I explained how I am going to get the corners on the left side. I expect delivery from the right as Wilcox has a free reign with no defender of note on his side of the pitch.
    You bring up Arsenal style football, who said I want to play Arsenal style football? My team tactics here are a polar opposite to that type of football, firstly I expect my goals against your team when its fully fit to come from crosses, free kicks and corners and not by walking the ball into the net. Secondly I have a guy up front who can head the ball or score with both feet in Alan Shearer.
    You are right though, against the right type of opposition my team can play those tactics.

    See, here is a telling problem that you somewhat acknowledge. You say you won't play Arsenal-style football - which will be my aim incidentally - and yet you expect your 'polar opposite' type of football, which I'm guessing will be route 1 style football, to work. One problem though - how are you going to do that when you won't have the ball? You admitted earlier that you plan to have Beardsley help out Townsend so that suggests you'll play long spells with Shearer up front on his own. My duo of Carrick and Petit will be delighted to just keep the ball and pick you apart at will down the flanks. Picture if you will Petit and Carrick spraying balls down the lines dragging Wright and Nilsson across whilst Bergkamp and Defoe lurk in the centre. You would be in big trouble my friend.

    Your tactics will not work well over the course of a season or against me.
    eagle eye wrote:
    The ridiculous comments above are a desperate attempt to cover the cracks in your team.
    I submit that my fellow dratees will be able to see far beyond your laugable comments that my team would be in the lower half of a table.
    In fact with the amount of injury prone players, and with Geremi at right back and Wes Brown at center back, I submit that your team might indeed be in trouble over the course of a full season.
    If you want to do a player vs player analysis you are welcome to try, but please don't forget to take marks off for injury and that would be huge in relation to your team. I believe that if I was to mark your team players out of ten while including the injury prone nature and the players out of position that your teams total team rating would be close to if not less than 50 which is pathetic.

    I don't know what you find ridiculous. I gave a detailed view on the strengths and weaknesses of your team and concluded I would finish significantly higher in a league table. I stand by that. You have offered me nothing to make me change my mind. In fact your tactics seem to suggest you accept my analysis that my team would dominate the possession and force you to limit your own attack. Your main criticism of my team seems to centre around this notion of them picking up injuries!
    eagle eye wrote:
    You tried a neat trick in this draft imo in picking players who have all played in recent times so as not to run the risk of losing out because somebody doesn't remember the players. You took a further huge risk by picking players who were very injury prone. A quick glance over your team looks good, but with indepth analysis of each player your team does not stand up to the rigours of a full premier league campaign and over the course of a season you get rightly hammered many times. Your defense is particularly frail and against a solid and dependable front line of Shearer and Beardsley you will concede a large number of goals. In midfield you also fail due to the injury prone nature of both Zenden and Robben. I suggest that this leaves me free to unleash my full backs on either side for half my games over the season against you. I believe that once off with all your players fit we will have a great game but over the course of a season you have no chance.

    I didn't take risks at all. I was completely honest throughout the draft when I said my intention was to create a team that oozed class and could play good, attacking football. I think everyone recalls this. That was my aim and I'm happy with the results. I think you have tried to do a bit of a smoke and mirrors act actually by hyping up players that made little impact in the grand scheme of things. For instance trying to convince people that the likes of Nilsson, Wilcox, Wright, Stone etc are world beaters. They aren't. Not even close.

    Over the course of a season I feel my team will score plenty and concede little. That is why I feel my team will finish around the top. I think your team has areas that other sides could exploit and punish. You remind me a lot of the modern-day Newcastle really. It's all well and good for them to have Michael Owen but with little support he can only do so much. Similarly it's all well and good you having Shearer but likewise he can only do so much with limited service. I reckon your team would be a Bolton-style outfit. Limited tactics and style, and attempting to deal with other teams' style rather than focusing on your own style, like my team.
    eagle eye wrote:
    Finally:

    Clearly like any good tactician I am going to focus on your weaknesses and you have many, not alone the injuries but having players out of position. You play Wes Brown and CB, Geremi at RB, Robben at RM.
    I submit that your team is not alone weakened through injury but by having players in positions where they do not perform at their very best.

    In all honesty a good tactician would not try to go at me along the wings when this is your problem area. Wes Brown has been praised for his service at centre-back, Geremi operated well at right-back for Mourinho and I'd like to remind you that Robben, as I've outlined numerous times, will be used on both flanks by me as he was used at Chelsea. In fact Robben will be very important to me against your weak full-backs.

    As I noted above, you have acknowledged the need to bring Beardsley into play in order to deal with my midfield which indicates you'd have Shearer living off scraps up top on his own. You've also said you will pit your full-backs like-for-like against my wingers which to me is near-suicidal (though you want Geremi to help) and you expect Andy Townsend to sort out Carrick and Petit pretty much single-handedly (with Beardsley as sidekick).

    As all of this takes place, Denis Bergkamp is going to be rubbing his hands together with glee at the prospect of all that free space with Geremi being dragged off to assist his weak full-backs and Townsend running about after the ball with Carrick and Petit keeping possession.

    Now that I think of it I note you never mentioned Bergkamp or Defoe when talking about how you'd deal with my team. Or do you expect them to pick up injuries too? :p

    At the end of the day if this is your strategy of dealing with me then presumably you'll do so against other teams and that kind of negative, hoof-the-ball stuff isn't going to see you top half eagle eye, but lower-half as I suggested before.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    You still fail to see how you cannot expect to have a top class outfit given injury prone players in your lineup.

    Wes Brown = 205 league appearances over 12 seasons = 17.08 appearances per season.
    My rating for this player is out of ten but because he doesn't even make half the games he can only be rated at 4 and lets add that he is playing out of position.
    My rating 3/10

    Geremi 132 league appearances over 6 seasons = 22 appearances per season.
    My rating based on 22 games is down immediately to 6 add that he is not a RB and its down to 4.
    My rating 4/10


    Gabriel Heinze 52 league appearances over 3 seasons = 17.33 appearances per season. Again he drops to 4 out of 10 due to his injury prone nature so you cannot rate him above 5 add to that his poor form after injury.
    My rating 3/10.

    Arjen Robben 67 league appearances over 3 seasons = 22.33 appearances per season. Again starts with a lower rating due to injury of lets say 6 and I'll take away one for playing on the right side.
    My rating 5/10

    Boudewijn Zenden 133 league appearnaces over 6 seasons = 22.16 appearances per season. Yet again drops to 6 before we start and he certainly was not elite.
    My rating 5/10

    The fact that you dismiss the above shows that you did not consider injuries as important when selecting your team.
    You cannot expect me or anybody else to take your team selections and just judge them on games they played whilst dismissing the fact that they will be injured for a large part of the season. The stats above are shocking, the worst I'd say of any team in the draft.
    You accuse me of taking this line with every team. The only time I mentioned injuries in the last round was at the very end of my summation.
    eagle eye wrote: »

    Over the course of a season I would fully expect to beat his team handily, neither side have injury prone players but I would be shocked if I conceded a goal against this team.

    The fact that you don't rate Roland Neilsen who made over 100 appearances for his country at right back is just laughable. You mention Geremi playing at right back for Mourinho, can you tell me how many games he played there 5 or 6 maybe, hardly worthy of him being deemed a right back and certainly not good enough to deem him a right back worthy of note, let alone being able to handle a Premier League winner and one of the most consistent players in the Premier Leeague throughout his career in Jason Wilcox. Again thats when Geremi is fit.

    You are constantly attacking my players performances. The truth is I have dependable, consistent top class players all over the pitch.
    You mention Makelele's age, it never bothered him and even now it still doesn't as he continues to prove himself having left the Premier League and Chelsea have been far less impressive without him this year.
    You are saying Alan Wright with all his pace is not up to matching Robben in that department, again here you show a lack of knowledge as Wright was one of the fastest full backs ever in the Premier League. And again he doesn't have to worry that often about Robben due to fitness issues for him.
    I have admitted you have a decent central midfield pairing but they are deep lying midfielders, I said that Bearsley will drop deep occasionally and you spin this into him spending his whole time in the middle of the park. I also have a tough tackling no nonsense box to box midfielder in Andy Townsend who is well capable of taking the ball and spreading it to the wings and also pressuring Carrick and Petit and limiting their time on the ball making it easy for Makelele to cut out and limit their usefulness.
    You are talking about space for Bergkamp and Defoe, I say again not bloody likely with Makele choking anything coming from midfield and your front two having to deal with Vidic and Laursen.
    When analysing your team you have to take injuries into account and as such I've done the following, I've even given higher ratings than I shoud for one or two of your players but lets say for the elite I've given 10, for very good I've given 9 and for above average I've given 8. I'm deducting points for out of position players and injury prone players given their impact cannot be assessed over a whole season. I am going to refrain from giving Makelele and Vidic 10's to be fair even though I believe that neither of their teams would have won Premier League titles in the years they were present without their considerable input.


    Mr Nice Guys team
    Van der Sar 9
    Geremi 4
    Brown 3
    Ferdinand 9
    Heinze 3
    Zenden 5
    Carrick 9
    Petit 9
    Robben 5
    Bergkamp 10
    Defoe 8
    Team total 74
    Avg. player 6.72
    eagle eye's team
    Southall 9
    Nielsen 9
    Laursen 9
    Vidic 9
    Wright 8
    Wilcox 8
    Makelele 9
    Townsend 8
    Stone 8
    Beardsley 9
    Shearer 10
    Team total 97
    Avg. player 8.81

    I believe that table shows the balanced effectiveness of both teams over the course of a season and there is a huge gap imo with my team comfortably beating yours every time. You also rate worse in every section, defense, midfield and attack.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »

    Mr Nice Guys team
    Van der Sar 9
    Geremi 4
    Brown 3
    Ferdinand 9
    Heinze 3
    Zenden 5
    Carrick 9
    Petit 9
    Robben 5
    Bergkamp 10
    Defoe 8
    Team total 74
    Avg. player 6.72
    eagle eye's team
    Southall 9
    Nielsen 9
    Laursen 9
    Vidic 9
    Wright 8
    Wilcox 8
    Makelele 9
    Townsend 8
    Stone 8
    Beardsley 9
    Shearer 10
    Team total 97
    Avg. player 8.81

    I believe that table shows the balanced effectiveness of both teams over the course of a season and there is a huge gap imo with my team comfortably beating yours every time. You also rate worse in every section, defense, midfield and attack.

    I believe this table shows you have officially lost the plot my friend. I'm not going to bother dealing with this ludicrous rating system (Wes Brown and Gaby Heinze 3/10? That's a good one), although I will say it does go to show that I was right when I mentioned you completely overrate your own picks.
    eagle eye wrote:
    You cannot expect me or anybody else to take your team selections and just judge them on games they played whilst dismissing the fact that they will be injured for a large part of the season.

    Mate, do you understand the rules of the game? We are to judge the best teams over the course of a season. That is what I am doing. By the way I don't know how you can say definitively my players "will be injured for a large part of the season" unless you plan on sending some hitmen after them? Or has Mystic Meg been in touch?
    eagle eye wrote:
    The fact that you don't rate Roland Neilsen who made over 100 appearances for his country at right back is just laughable. You mention Geremi playing at right back for Mourinho, can you tell me how many games he played there 5 or 6 maybe, hardly worthy of him being deemed a right back and certainly not good enough to deem him a right back worthy of note, let alone being able to handle a Premier League winner and one of the most consistent players in the Premier Leeague throughout his career in Jason Wilcox. Again thats when Geremi is fit.

    I believe my pick of Geremi was a very good one considering it was my final pick and I secured a guy who had played for both Real Madrid and Chelsea, experiencing great success with both. A guy who I repeat I would take over your Roland Nilsson any day. Nilsson winning over 100 caps doesn't prove he's a great Premiership player. Kevin Kilbane is close to earning over a 100 caps for Ireland and while I admire what he's done for the Irish team, for me he's not an example of a great Premiership player either. A good one at times sure, but not great.
    eagle eye wrote:
    You are constantly attacking my players performances. The truth is I have dependable, consistent top class players all over the pitch.
    You mention Makelele's age, it never bothered him and even now it still doesn't as he continues to prove himself having left the Premier League and Chelsea have been far less impressive without him this year.

    You have few top class players in my opinion. I mentioned Makelele's age only because you said you wanted him to help out your full-backs which is asking a lot of a guy who will also mainly have to protect his central defenders.
    eagle eye wrote:
    You are saying Alan Wright with all his pace is not up to matching Robben in that department, again here you show a lack of knowledge as Wright was one of the fastest full backs ever in the Premier League. And again he doesn't have to worry that often about Robben due to fitness issues for him.

    I am old enough to remember Wright and I don't recall him being the Speedy Gonzalez you portray him as. Since you brought up caps one wonders why he never won any for England when you confidently think he can handle a player like Arjen Robben! You know full well Robben would have his number and unfortunately you will have to worry about Robben against me. Why don't you stop this strategy of putting an imaginary hex on my team and judge things reasonably!
    eagle eye wrote:
    I have admitted you have a decent central midfield pairing but they are deep lying midfielders, I said that Bearsley will drop deep occasionally and you spin this into him spending his whole time in the middle of the park. I also have a tough tackling no nonsense box to box midfielder in Andy Townsend who is well capable of taking the ball and spreading it to the wings and also pressuring Carrick and Petit and limiting their time on the ball making it easy for Makelele to cut out and limit their usefulness.
    You are talking about space for Bergkamp and Defoe, I say again not bloody likely with Makele choking anything coming from midfield and your front two having to deal with Vidic and Laursen.

    You are the one who said Makelele would be assisting his full-backs against my wingers. Now you are saying he will be dealing with Bergkamp and Defoe as well! As I said before, you're asking a lot of just one man who is in his thirties remember. Townsend is indeed well capable of winning the ball - unfortunately for him Manu Petit and Michael Carrick are just as able to take it back, and are also better at keeping hold of it than he is. You have acknowledged the need to bring Beardsley deep to deal with my midfield which suggests you accept my analysis that I would dominate possession. With pacier wingers, central midfielders more comfortable on the ball, the speed of Defoe (which is better than that of Laursen and Vidic) along with a legend in Bergkamp, how are you going to stop my team carving you apart?
    eagle eye wrote:
    When analysing your team you have to take injuries into account and as such I've done the following, I've even given higher ratings than I shoud for one or two of your players but lets say for the elite I've given 10, for very good I've given 9 and for above average I've given 8. I'm deducting points for out of position players and injury prone players given their impact cannot be assessed over a whole season. I am going to refrain from giving Makelele and Vidic 10's to be fair even though I believe that neither of their teams would have won Premier League titles in the years they were present without their considerable input.

    Let's be honest your rating system is a joke and your focus on imaginary injuries goes against the spirit and point of the game - to judge the best team over a season. In that respect I feel my team will comfortably finish above yours. My reasons have been explained.

    I would actually like you to tell me honestly where you think our teams would finish over a league season, without going back to this trick of hoping my team catch pneumonia or the plague.

    Judge both teams over a season and state the positions you see us finishing. I would love to know how you expect your team to outperform mine when I honesty believe there is a huge gulf between my picks and your own.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Eagle Eye
    Southall 9
    Nielsen 9
    Laursen 9
    Vidic 9
    Wright 8
    Wilcox 8
    Makelele 9
    Townsend 8
    Stone 8
    Beardsley 9
    Shearer 10
    Team total 97
    Avg. player 8.81


    very very generous. consider that you are giving 10th and 11th draft picks a minimum of 8 out of 10. i dont think those well presented scores make any sense at all. wilcox was not an 8/10 player


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Eagle Eye
    Jason Wilcox played 5 seasons of over 20 league games in an 18 season career, by eagle eye's own ranking of MNG's players that would reduce Wilcox's score dramatically so I don't see how you can criticize NMR's players.

    As for Steve Stone.... gah.. he had 4 seasons at Forest, one of which was 5 league appearances long. He was always an injury hampered player. He had 3 full seasons in an average Villa side and 1 full season at Portsmouth. While he was a good crosser of the ball, he was a very limited player, much like Wilcox, in that they could only survive with target men, playing a very wide game. I remember Stone struggled against any good full back. I have never seen a professional winger cut back and thus lose the momentum of counter attacking play as Jason Wilcox. I remember watching them play QPR in the premiership one season and we made a game of counting how many times Wilcox would decide he couldn't beat the fullback and drop the ball to an oncoming support player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    GuanYin wrote: »
    Jason Wilcox played 5 seasons of over 20 league games in an 18 season career, by eagle eye's own ranking of MNG's players that would reduce Wilcox's score dramatically so I don't see how you can criticize NMR's players.

    As for Steve Stone.... gah.. he had 4 seasons at Forest, one of which was 5 league appearances long. He was always an injury hampered player. He had 3 full seasons in an average Villa side and 1 full season at Portsmouth. While he was a good crosser of the ball, he was a very limited player, much like Wilcox, in that they could only survive with target men, playing a very wide game. I remember Stone struggled against any good full back. I have never seen a professional winger cut back and thus lose the momentum of counter attacking play as Jason Wilcox. I remember watching them play QPR in the premiership one season and we made a game of counting how many times Wilcox would decide he couldn't beat the fullback and drop the ball to an oncoming support player.
    This is all rubbish and not fair. Are we having a fair fight here or is this now a pathetic attempt to gang up against me.
    What you say about Jason Wilcox is ridiculous. Jason often checked his run but it was because of his vision and passing and being able to decide to take a better option than go towards the corner flag and deliver. And as you say he operated to his very best with a target man up front, a role that Shearer is easely able to fill.
    I don't know what age you are or how much your memory is of his whole career. He was magnificent at Blackburn for his whole time there and then went on to prove himself again at Leeds during their Premier League years.
    Steven Stone was a tough nut, you criticise him like he was only average, he was a solid dependable player who was very unlucky that David Beckham arrived along at international level at the same time as him. He broke his leg but came back from it and proved himself to be just as good as before the injury. The fact that Alex Ferguson was interested in buying Stone in 2000 after that injury proves just how good the man was.

    Other things you mention here are irrelevant as it only concerns their Premier League careers and not what they did outside the Premier League.

    Jazzy I've seen plenty of your posts before and you seem to be all about fancy pants footallers and not at all a fan of players who give 100% week in week out without dribbling the ball around others. As such I will dismiss your rating of Jason Wilcox.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    To Mr Nice Guy.

    I'm hoping you didn't resort to bringing in some backup to help you out.

    You still don't understand how detrimental having so many injury prone players in your lineup who will only give you half a season on average every season is. You are trying to dismiss it as nothing, but we have picked players based on their whole premiership careers and not just a couple of games.
    These injuries are very relevant and are the reason you cannot expect to win games.

    I explained my ratings for your injury prone players well, you try to pick them apart but its a futile excercise as there is no bias in what I've done. Even if you wish to berate one or two of my players and take another point or two off, I can counter that by adding points to Makelele and Vidic.
    Not alone that but I have started some of your injury prone players on 10 for a bit of fairness even though they would honestly start on 9. The fact that you don't concede that their effectiveness out of 10 should have points deducted due to their certain lack of games shows just how deluded you are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Just to be clear an consise on things I have said and things you have falsely claimed I said.

    1. I have proven beyond reasonable doubt that over their average Premier League seasons that Robben, Geremi, Brown, Heinze and Zenden will only be fit to play about half the games. You are trying to make us believe that we should disregard their whole Premier Leauge averages and just accept that your team will be fit all season. How can you expect anybody to believe that when the stats say they will not?

    2. I never stated anywhere that I expect Claude Makele to help out my full backs. This is you making up things. You are then saying that Bergkamp and Defoe will have loads of space. Again this comes from your false statement.


    3. I never stated anywhere that Peter Beardsley will spend most of his time deep in midfield. I said he will drop deep now and again to unsettle your midfielders. He will spend most of his playing in the hole just behind Shearer, a tactic that will crowd that area of the pitch and allow me room on the right and left where you are weak due to not having a full back on one side and having injury prone players on both sides in the full back and midfield roles.

    4. You mention that Alan Wright did not play for England. It was hard for a full back to get a game in those days. The England team generally only had one full back on either side in the squad and maybe sometimes one for cover but generally they did not cover the position. During Alan Wright's prime Graeme LeSaux was given that spot for England. Then a young Ashley Cole arrived on the scene. I don't have any argument with either of them being ahead of him.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »

    Jazzy I've seen plenty of your posts before and you seem to be all about fancy pants footallers and not at all a fan of players who give 100% week in week out without dribbling the ball around others. As such I will dismiss your rating of Jason Wilcox.

    really? i never knew.
    well, i could say you are overly biased towards jason wilcox as you support blackburn and he was part of the blackburn side that won in 1995 before they disappeared to obscurity. 8/10? your havin' a laugh. stone 8/10? another laugh right there.
    u give brown, a multiple premier league champion 3. ur scoring system is a farce no matter wat u think of my "opinions". are u honestly saying that nielson and laursen are worth triple the value of heinze and brown over the course of a season?

    and u make out like i know nothing about football and therefore my opinion is invalid. cha' right chap


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Jazzy wrote: »
    really? i never knew.
    well, i could say you are overly biased towards jason wilcox as you support blackburn and he was part of the blackburn side that won in 1995 before they disappeared to obscurity. 8/10? your havin' a laugh. stone 8/10? another laugh right there.
    u give brown, a multiple premier league champion 3. ur scoring system is a farce no matter wat u think of my "opinions". are u honestly saying that nielson and laursen are worth triple the value of heinze and brown over the course of a season?

    and u make out like i know nothing about football and therefore my opinion is invalid. cha' right chap
    I clearly explained why I rated them so low. My ratings are not based on a single game, its an overall impact based on the likely number of games, their impact in them games including what position they would play in, over the course of an average season based on the statistics they have in the Premier League up to this point in time.

    I've seen a lot of your posts over the last few months and you rave about big name players but you criticise players like Dirk Kuyt who work hard and are extremely affective even though they might not look the best. Thats what I'm talking about when I say you like the fancy pants players, like Ribery for instance who I have seen you post about, a small player, very skillful I definitely agree, but you don't know for a fact that he is up to the challenge of the Premier League but of course you will say he is definitely up to it. I rate Ribery and Kuyt. You don't rate Kuyt but do Ribery. I rate Wicox and Stone, you don't rate them. Alex Ferguson rated Steve Stone by the way as I've said earlier. He was very close to buying him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    That fact that Brown is given a 3 and Laursen a 9 considering the latter's own history with injuries is quite frankly laughable.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Eagle Eye
    i do appreciate kuyt and wat he does, of course i do. wat i dislike is the idea of kuyt. its down to rafa really and his defend first policy, not kuyt the actual player. wat kuyt does, he does well but he wont win us the PL... sum1 like ribery can. i just dont feel the need to laud praise onto players who "work hard" as they are getting paid stupid money and should be working hard anyway.. dont even get me started on the lazy sh1ts who get paid that money and barely try.

    and look at wat xavi said above, i think that sums it up. that and the fact that you are working on ifs and buts as regard their score. "if" they get injured. torres is injury prone but would you give him 5/10 because of it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Jazzy wrote: »
    "if" they get injured. torres is injury prone but would you give him 5/10 because of it?
    Certainly not, Torres played 33 games last season, thats hardly injury prone. When your stats say that you will only play close to half the games over the course of your entire Premier League career then it becomes different.

    Just look at United this season for instance. Wes Brown has played 7 games, are you trying to tell me that he is a crucial part of the club or that he is so good that United are weakened when he is not present? It has never looked that way in fairness as he misses huge amounts of games every year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Just look at United this season for instance. Wes Brown has played 7 games, are you trying to tell me that he is a crucial part of the club or that he is so good that United are weakened when he is not present? It has never looked that way in fairness as he misses huge amounts of games every year.

    Are you telling us that Martin Laursen is less injury prone and less liable to miss huge chunks of the season than Brown? Honestly now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Are you telling us that Martin Laursen is less injury prone and less liable to miss huge chunks of the season than Brown? Honestly now.
    Since Martin O'Neill took over a Villa and Laursen recovered from his knee injury he has played 69 games for Villa. Thats in just over two seasons since he recovered from injury. He played all 38 last season and 19 up to his injury this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Since Martin O'Neill took over a Villa and Laursen recovered from his knee injury he has played 69 games for Villa. Thats in just over two seasons since he recovered from injury. He played all 38 last season and 19 up to his injury this year.

    I've highlighted 4 words that sum it up for me.

    The fact is Laursen was once a serious crock and is still a worry on the injury front. You seem to be overlooking the fact that Laursen spent a year out of the game when he first joined Villa (he played once in the 2005/06 season).

    Brown is also an injury concern so you should be taking them on merit as players when rating them and not on injuries as they are as bad as each other.

    Which brings us to this - as players, how the hell is Laursen a 9 and Brown a 3?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Since Martin O'Neill took over a Villa and Laursen recovered from his knee injury he has played 69 games for Villa. Thats in just over two seasons since he recovered from injury. He played all 38 last season and 19 up to his injury this year.

    he's averaged less than 20 games a season.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote:
    I don't know what age you are or how much your memory is of his whole career. He was magnificent at Blackburn for his whole time there and then went on to prove himself again at Leeds during their Premier League years.

    I'm old enough to have seen Steve Stone and Jason Wilcox play :p

    Wilcox didn't break into the team until he was 22/23, 4 years after joining the club. He played 6 seasons, only 4 of which were as a first choice player.

    Stone played a mere 5 seasons of top level football, his others being hampered by injury.
    eagle eye wrote: »
    I rate Wicox and Stone, you don't rate them. Alex Ferguson rated Steve Stone by the way as I've said earlier. He was very close to buying him.

    Yes and AF decided against him based on his injury record.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Eagle Eye
    I've tried to be fair:

    eagle eye
    Southhall – 8 best days behind him, but still solid
    Nielsen – 7 solid defender
    Wright – 6 average player
    Laursen – 7 quality defender, but injury prone
    Vidic – 9 top class
    Wilcox – 7 dearth of good wingers, and he’s short of the very top class definitely.
    Stone – 6 decent
    Makelele – 9 the best in the business at what he did, had a huge impact on prem in that he was pivotal to Chelsea’s two titles
    Townsend – 8
    Beardsley – 8 best days were behind him, but still quality
    Shearer – 10 second best striker in premier league history

    Total 85

    MNG
    Van der Saar – 8 – best days behind him but still a good keeper
    Geremi – 6 – not a right back, and never first choice at Chelsea, but he’ll do a decent job
    Heinze – 7 – good defender, but injury prone and has a small sample size
    Ferdinand – 9 – early days of his career were littered with errors. He’s been top class for several years now though.
    Brown – 6 – I think he’s better at right back, and also prone to injuries. Rarely been first choice CB for United so I can’t justify a higher mark for those two reasons.
    Robben – 8 – world class on his day, but his prem time was littered with injuries and again a very small sample size
    Zenden – 6 – just a very average winger
    Carrick – 8 – improving all the time, great passer, but we can’t forget those previous seasons where he often struggled to impose himself on games.
    Petit – 9 – real quality all round midfielder
    Bergkamp – 10 – one of the greats
    Defoe – 8 – one trick pony, but he’ll score goals.

    Total 85


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    I've highlighted 4 words that sum it up for me.

    The fact is Laursen was once a serious crock and is still a worry on the injury front. You seem to be overlooking the fact that Laursen spent a year out of the game when he first joined Villa (he played once in the 2005/06 season).

    Brown is also an injury concern so you should be taking them on merit as players when rating them and not on injuries as they are as bad as each other.

    Which brings us to this - as players, how the hell is Laursen a 9 and Brown a 3?
    Ok fair enough if you consider Laursen's whole career he is very similar to Brown in starts, but he is an outstanding centre half and he is not out of position, so he would get a 5 imo.


    Mr Nice Guys team
    Van der Sar 9
    Geremi 4
    Brown 3
    Ferdinand 9
    Heinze 3
    Zenden 5
    Carrick 9
    Petit 9
    Robben 5
    Bergkamp 10
    Defoe 8
    Team total 74
    Avg. player 6.72
    eagle eye's team
    Southall 9
    Nielsen 9
    Laursen 5
    Vidic 9
    Wright 8
    Wilcox 8
    Makelele 9
    Townsend 8
    Stone 8
    Beardsley 9
    Shearer 10
    Team total 92
    Avg. player 8.36

    I'm still miles ahead and even if you rate him at 4 its only dropping my player average by less than one tenth which still leaves me miles clear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    Well personally I think Alan Wright was never more than an average player in an average enough Villa team, same goes for Townsend. Both are 5s in my book, especially if Laursen is one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Jeebus all these posts in my game thread. Maybe its time I started doing the same in the other ones.

    Whatawaster you are not being fair to my team imo, and your ratings for injury prone players like Zenden, Robben, Brown, Zenden and Geremi are far too high imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Jeebus all these posts in my game thread. Maybe its time I started doing the same in the other ones.

    Well if you hadn't posted such completely biased and unfair ratings then no one would have batted an eyelid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Eagle Eye
    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Well personally I think Alan Wright was never more than an average player in an average enough Villa team, same goes for Townsend. Both are 5s in my book, especially if Laursen is one.

    Oh, that is harsh, even in USA 94 Townsend was a wonderful midfielder. His performances in the first half of the 90's must earn him a 7 at least.

    Alan Wright is not a good player. And Stone, Wilcox and Nielson wouldn't get higher than 6 most likely only 5.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Xavi6 wrote: »
    Well personally I think Alan Wright was never more than an average player in an average enough Villa team, same goes for Townsend. Both are 5s in my book, especially if Laursen is one.
    Ridiculous comments. I noticed you haven't mentioned any of his players. Is this personal or something?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    GuanYin wrote: »
    Oh, that is harsh, even in USA 94 Townsend was a wonderful midfielder. His performances in the first half of the 90's must earn him a 7 at least.

    Alan Wright is not a good player. And Stone, Wilcox and Nielson wouldn't get higher than 6 most likely only 5.

    Townsend was an average enough player in the greater scheme of the draft.

    Roland Nilsson was a quality RB and is definitely an 8.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,919 ✭✭✭✭Xavi6


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Ridiculous comments. I noticed you haven't mentioned any of his players. Is this personal or something?

    Oh FFS. TBH I'm getting bloody sick of your 'the whole world is out to get me' attitude. It's prevelant in a number of threads, not just this one, and it's fucking annoying.

    Nobody is attacking you, we're discussing the merits of your players. If MrNiceGuy was online participating in this thread I would be commenting on his players. You have posted some ridiculous ratings in this thread and then are seemingly aghast that people disagree.

    If you didn't want this sort of criticism then you shouldn't have signed up for the bloody thing in the first place.

    In summary, quit your whining. It's annoying, and I say that as a poster not as a moderator before you head off to Help Desk.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,447 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Having taken Xavi's comments regarding Laursen being injury prone into account. This is how I now see it. I'm finished posting in this thread. I've said all I have to say. I firmily believe my team beats mr nice guy's team handily over the course of a season.


    Mr Nice Guys team
    Van der Sar 9
    Geremi 4
    Brown 3
    Ferdinand 9
    Heinze 3
    Zenden 5
    Carrick 9
    Petit 9
    Robben 5
    Bergkamp 10
    Defoe 8
    Team total 74
    Avg. player 6.72
    eagle eye's team
    Southall 9
    Nielsen 9
    Laursen 5
    Vidic 9
    Wright 8
    Wilcox 8
    Makelele 9
    Townsend 8
    Stone 8
    Beardsley 9
    Shearer 10
    Team total 92
    Avg. player 8.36


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,434 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Eagle Eye
    Awesome.

    For you:

    Nielson 9, Geremi 4

    Stone / Wilcox 8, Robben / Zenden 5

    You're having a laugh. To put it mildly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Jazzy


    Eagle Eye
    no. your ratings are an overly biased farce no matter how well u present them. u are giving ur team ratings they dont deserve and the MNG team over the top low ratings.

    if im to be perfectly honest, i think what you are doing amounts to propaganda and should be part of this competition. it definitely doesnt seem in the spirit of it anyway

    i dont have anything against you either, i think ur generally a good poster. im just giving my view... and mr alan can testify to my lack of bias :p


  • Subscribers Posts: 32,859 ✭✭✭✭5starpool


    Eagle Eye
    Own. Grave. Dug.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,910 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    Jeebus all these posts in my game thread. Maybe its time I started doing the same in the other ones.

    Whatawaster you are not being fair to my team imo, and your ratings for injury prone players like Zenden, Robben, Brown, Zenden and Geremi are far too high imo.

    How can a player like Robben, who chelsea would probably not have won at least one of their titles without, get a 5? He was magnificent for a good portion of those two seasons. I have marked down all the players you mentioned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    Eagle Eye
    How can a player like Robben, who chelsea would probably not have won at least one of their titles without, get a 5? He was magnificent for a good portion of those two seasons. I have marked down all the players you mentioned.

    Probably for the same reason Laursen's getting a five. All this is irrelevant anyway since it's down to personal opinion, not an exact science but Eagle Eye is doing himself no favours considering it comes down to a popular vote


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭event


    He eventually moved on to Leeds United in 1999 where he displaced Harry Kewell on the left side of midfield with his consistently high class displays

    just cos this references Leeds, but thats completely false

    wilcox joined in 1999. in that season, kewell played 36 league games. then kewell started to get injured, playing 17, 27 and 31 league games in the following 3 years.

    he never displaced kewell at all, he only played when kewell was injured.

    in 4 and a half years at leeds, he played 106 games, around 24 games a year


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Eagle Eye
    eagle eye wrote: »
    To Mr Nice Guy.

    I'm hoping you didn't resort to bringing in some backup to help you out.

    I didn't resort to bringing in any back-up. This is the first I've seen this thread since last night. I'm surprised you would actually think that of me. For the record I don't think I need any assistance in pointing out your outlandish claims and making a case for my team outperforming your own.
    eagle eye wrote:
    You still don't understand how detrimental having so many injury prone players in your lineup who will only give you half a season on average every season is. You are trying to dismiss it as nothing, but we have picked players based on their whole premiership careers and not just a couple of games.
    These injuries are very relevant and are the reason you cannot expect to win games.

    I explained my ratings for your injury prone players well, you try to pick them apart but its a futile excercise as there is no bias in what I've done. Even if you wish to berate one or two of my players and take another point or two off, I can counter that by adding points to Makelele and Vidic.
    Not alone that but I have started some of your injury prone players on 10 for a bit of fairness even though they would honestly start on 9. The fact that you don't concede that their effectiveness out of 10 should have points deducted due to their certain lack of games shows just how deluded you are.

    I don't want to get into a debate on the ratings issue as I think it's been made clear to you already that you went way OTT with it. I'm not interested in rating your players or my own - even though I think mine would score higher - for the simple fact that I don't think it proves a whole lot.

    I've already gone into detail on why I feel my team would outperform yours and I hope others will agree with me on my analysis.

    I repeat my view that this tactic of yours for focusing on potential injuries to my players smacks of desperation on your part. We're supposed to determine which team is the best overall. If it was a game where subs came into it and it was a squad-based system then maybe your points would be relevant. As I understand the rules we judge our best XI over the duration of a season and when we do that, my team is more likely to do well. I'm quite happy to judge your XI over a full season.

    Anyway I think we've said all we need to say on this and I think this will be my last post in the thread. May the best team advance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,648 ✭✭✭✭ctrl-alt-delete


    Eagle eye's rating system may be a bit biased,

    But for Mr Nice Guy to say that eagle eye's team would finish in the lower half of the league? that is just as bad in my opinion.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭RichTea


    Eagle Eye
    Mr Nice Guy's team looks a bit stronger on paper. Not sure where these player ratings are going.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    That is a shocking margin of victory, in my opinion it doesn't give justice to Eagle Eyes team, I thought it would go the other way if anything.
    Injuries aside and all that, Eagle Eyes team is just as good on paper, people voting are probably not too familiar with early Premiership maybe.


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