DART to Dublin Airport?

cb750

OK this may be a stupid question or maybe one that has been dealt with before. But I'll ask it anyway ?
Why can't the DART be connected to Dublin airport ?
It's only about a mile from airport land to the main line at Portmarnock Station, surely a simple branch line wouldn't cost too much.

Patrick

admiralofthefleet

probably something to do with capacity on an already heavily used line

DWCommuter

It was part of Irish Rails Dublin Rail Plan. The Government rejected it in favour of Metro North under Transport 21, launched in 2005.

cb750

Yes maybe it is down to capacity but wouldn't it be a cheap and quick answer and our political leaders could say they have provided a rail link to the airport even if the Aircoach was still better :rolleyes:

Patrick

AlekSmart

It was/is a "Cheap and Quick" answer to the problem.

However it came from the wrong people...........

uglyjohn

i looked at this when i was doing my theisis. It was one of the options concidered and a fairly in depth analysis was done. i'll try and root it out tonight if i remember and no one answeres you before i get around to it :rolleyes:

i think one of the main issues was to do with frequecy of trains. there are already a lot of trains travelling on the section from town to howth junction. These are split between trains going to malahide, howth, and balbriggan/north and so on. if you try and add trains going for a fourth route onto this than you have to reduce the frequency of all other routes to make space....and then you get a situation where you spend all this money on the spur line and station and only have 1 train an hour or so which no one would use.
the alternative is to use the spur line to run an airport shuttle train to avoid impacting frequency on the mainline but there isnt much benifit to that compared to a shuttle bus from a dart station which would be far far cheaper.

Stupido

You are assuming the metronorth is just about linking the airport to the city centre (as Mr O'Leary seems to think too).

DART to the airport posed difficulties. There are signaling issues on the northern line, capacity issues and passanger issues.

Basically not enough tracks and signals to run sufficent trains, and the only new passangers will be those going to the airport.

Metro north is about linking so much more of the north central city to the south. It will take new passangers from as far as swords and beyond (plans ultimatly to like it to Donabate and the DART).

For Example;
St Stephens Green - links with the luas and all the south side busses
O'Connell Bridge - Centre of the city - all the bus termini ('scuse my latin!)
Parnell Square - Centre north. Will link with LUAS line D from finglas & new DIT
Mater Hospital - vital public infrastructure
Drumcondra - interchange with all the western commuter trains and the new DART 2 line, not to mention Croke Park
DCU - University
Ballymun - IKEA / Cost Co & the population that dublin forgot about
Metropark - M50 P&R, Metro West
Airport - nuf said
Swords - new 100,000 town (who currently fil the M1 every morning)
Belinstown - M1 P&R

The DART to airport would not have been able to do all this. That is why it was dropped.

cb750

Thanks folks. Like I said maybe a stupid question but you know stupid questions are easy to answer.
I understand that the DART is jammed and with the mainline rail using the same tracks that's that.
It's just I realised how near the track was to the airport and how much the Metro will cost I knew someone here could tell me what I was missing.
Also "Stupido" is correct it's not just City Centre to Airport it's all the areas in between. I wouldn't be Mr O'Leary's biggest fan what I think what he wants is a "Heathrow Express" type system.

Patrick

mikemac

I seem to remember a shuttle bus service between the airport and Howth Junction.
Failed though but seemed like a decent idea.

Godge

If they could have doubled the track ala the Kildare line, it would have worked. Unfortunately, the nature of the line prevents that.

The inner two lines could have been used for an airport express and the outer commuter and Belfast trains i.e. last stop before Connolly at Howth Junction. The outer two lines could be used for DART to Howth/Malahide.

a lot of back gardens belonging to voters would have been taken though.

Bluetonic

Stupido wrote: »

Swords - new 100,000 town (who currently fil the M1 every morning)

The M1 is filled before Lissenhall in the morning which would indicate that the majority of traffic isn't coming filling it from Swords.

Flukey

A link to the Dublin-Belfast line somewhere north of Dublin Airport would be good. Somewhere like Drogheda wouldn't be bad. It could take some trains into the airport for people coming from the whole Belfast line catchment area.

Ideally there should be a sort M50-styled rail line right around the city, with various links going into the city. I've often said here that the two Luas lines should indeed be connected, but at the Sandyford and Tallaght ends. The current Cherrywood extension should be going the whole way to Bray, and should have years ago, to restore the whole Harcourt Street line. Obviously there have been practical reasons why it couldn't happen, but it would be ideal.

Judgement Day

The Cherrywood extension is only a temporary little arrangement with the extension to Bray/Fassaroe already planned. There were never any realistic problems to building a full DART line Harcourt Street/Bray just lack of political will. That the original line was pulled up so hastily was criminal - and this is not being wise in hindsight - as there were many voices at the time calling for its retention.

sdanseo

Stupido wrote: »

You are assuming the metronorth is just about linking the airport to the city centre (as Mr O'Leary seems to think too).

DART to the airport posed difficulties. There are signaling issues on the northern line, capacity issues and passanger issues.

Basically not enough tracks and signals to run sufficent trains, and the only new passangers will be those going to the airport.

Metro north is about linking so much more of the north central city to the south. It will take new passangers from as far as swords and beyond (plans ultimatly to like it to Donabate and the DART).

For Example;
St Stephens Green - links with the luas and all the south side busses
O'Connell Bridge - Centre of the city - all the bus termini ('scuse my latin!)
Parnell Square - Centre north. Will link with LUAS line D from finglas & new DIT
Mater Hospital - vital public infrastructure
Drumcondra - interchange with all the western commuter trains and the new DART 2 line, not to mention Croke Park
DCU - University
Ballymun - IKEA / Cost Co & the population that dublin forgot about
Metropark - M50 P&R, Metro West
Airport - nuf said
Swords - new 100,000 town (who currently fil the M1 every morning)
Belinstown - M1 P&R

The DART to airport would not have been able to do all this. That is why it was dropped.

Pity that it'll be, realistically, 20 years before it's running. They haven't even picked a tender yet and as we know, in this country such bull**** takes decades.

dowlingm

Flukey wrote: »

A link to the Dublin-Belfast line somewhere north of Dublin Airport would be good. Somewhere like Drogheda wouldn't be bad. It could take some trains into the airport for people coming from the whole Belfast line catchment area.

Well, MetroNorth could have done that if they weren't stopping it a couple of fields short in Lissenhall.

Ideally there should be a sort M50-styled rail line right around the city, with various links going into the city. I've often said here that the two Luas lines should indeed be connected, but at the Sandyford and Tallaght ends.

Well, in theory MetroWest should do the orbital job and I imagine there will be Line BX style pressure to extend it if it ever gets built, although I would run the route from Howth and scrap Howth Junction (since it also impedes Northern line services with its non-grade separated junction). While that would inconvenience Howthers by imposing a transfer, it would substantially convenience the folks who can't even squeeze onto a train further north.

Flukey

I am well aware that Metro North and Metro West, along with the Luas would complete the full route that I mentioned. I was just saying that it would be ideal if we had it. We should have had it years, if not decades, ago.

There are a lot of lines that should be re-opened or built all around the country. The gaping hole in our national rail network that lies between the Dublin - Belfast line and Dublin - Sligo line being a classic example of what can be reopened and built. We have all the talk of building a line to Navan. There should be a line to Navan and then on through Meath, into the north midlands, through central Ulster and into Derry. Elements of that line around the Dublin area, albeit closed, is there. A full line could be built with plenty of smaller branches off it at certain points.

paulm17781

Flukey wrote: »

I am well aware that Metro North and Metro West, along with the Luas would complete the full route that I mentioned. I was just saying that it would be ideal if we had it. We should have had it years, if not decades, ago.

I agree, I don't know if I'd exactly agree with what posted but I'd like the Luas green line to extend to the DART, closer than the planned interchange, perhaps then extend red to green. I don't know, more interchanges makes a better system. Sorry, enough crayons.

dereko1969

Flukey wrote: »

There are a lot of lines that should be re-opened or built all around the country. The gaping hole in our national rail network that lies between the Dublin - Belfast line and Dublin - Sligo line being a classic example of what can be reopened and built. We have all the talk of building a line to Navan. There should be a line to Navan and then on through Meath, into the north midlands, through central Ulster and into Derry. Elements of that line around the Dublin area, albeit closed, is there. A full line could be built with plenty of smaller branches off it at certain points.

Care to estimate a cost of that line? Why is it required beyond Navan all the way to Derry? Do you want another WRC? What bustling metropoli are there between Navan and Derry that would justify this?