Stolen Relics from the Past

petethebrick

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7920830.stm

What do you think about countries such as England, France and Italy refusing to return items they stole from other countries in the past? The current case is about two ancient bronze statues France is refusing to give back to China. Instead the French government is auctioning them off for millions!!

Similiarly English Museums are full of treasures looted from sites in Greece, Asia and Africa. It's a disgrace in my opinion. At the very least extensive compensation should be paid.

keane2097

If I had a time machine I would undoubtedly be stealing relics from the past tbh.

funk-you

Finders keepers, loosers weepers! Nah nah nah nah nah naaaah!

-Funk

CountingCrows

When are they giving us our 6 counties back?

sillyputty

I have always been of the opinion that national treasures such as the Elgin Marbles and such should be given back to the country of origin as it is their heitage. IMO the guy who did the fake bidding is a hero for raising awareness that people who stole antiquities in the past are able to aution them off for millions without being prosecuted.
Its heritage and you cannot put a pricetag on the Book of Kells or the Tara Brooch.

Biggins

CountingCrows wrote: »

When are they giving us our 6 counties back?

...as soon as they have obtained the mineral extraction rights under EU law for the region around Rockall!
Once they get what they want, extract any oil or other resources, then when its no use to them, the 6 counties might be offloaded quicker than you can read all the above!

CountingCrows

They can keep Terry Wogan

ejmaztec

Ah, those empire-builders. If stuff wasn't bolted down, they nicked it and shipped it home. If it was bolted down, they kept the country that it was bolted to.......

Turd Ferguson

Yeah, they should give us back the Holy Stone of Clonrichert.

thelordofcheese

petethebrick wrote: »

Similiarly many Museums are full of treasures looted from sites in Greece, Asia and Africa. It's a disgrace in my opinion. At the very least extensive compensation should be paid.

One could easilly argue that by being 'looted' they have been preserved for a hell of a lot longer than they normally would.

There's also the issue that Museums have been storing, studying and protecting these items for a long time. Regardless of their origin they have, in my eyes, a very legitimate claim to them now.

Ironbars

didnt mean to offend, my bad....................... thought I was being clever ;-(

Zadkiel

Ironbars wrote: »

Why give anything back to those countries, the current population of greece/egypt/china are only the decendants of slaves and the countries (all ****holes) are proof of that.

Generalise Much?

ejmaztec

Ironbars wrote: »

Why give anything back to those countries, the current population of greece/egypt/china are only the decendants of slaves and the countries (all ****holes) are proof of that.

Have you ever thought of joining the diplomatic service?

Ironbars

Zadkiel wrote: »

Generalise Much?

Indeed ;-)

petethebrick

Ironbars wrote: »

Why give anything back to those countries, the current population of greece/egypt/china have only the decendants of the slaves and those countries (all ****holes) are proof of that.

Your ignorance is astounding, ****ing toolbag

Ironbars

petethebrick wrote: »

Your ignorance is astounding, ****ing toolbag

Thus prooving your ignorance young man, Im quite a nice guy;)

humanji

Zadkiel wrote: »

Generalise Much?

Read the bit in yellow.

stovelid

The statues are clearly afraid to go back unless they get oppressed, thrown in jail, or ran over by a tank.

javaboy

petethebrick wrote: »

Your ignorance is astounding, ****ing toolbag

Banned

Smart Bug

I’ll simplify the situation.

5 year old Johnny and Ned are friends. One day Johnny reads a book about neo-communist fascism and decides to put his new-found philosophies to work in the playground. Up he gets from his sandbox, and leaves his toys and Ned behind. Ned, seeing the lovely little dinky cars his erstwhile friend left behind, decides to bring them off home lest they be pilfered by loose-moralled Nick down the road. Fast forward 187 years and Ned still has the dinkys, but now Johnny, having seen the error of his ill-informed political crusade, wants them back.

Now, the question is, in socio-philosophical-moralistic terms, what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow morning?

Biggins

Smart Bug wrote: »

I’ll simplify the situation.
...what should I eat for breakfast tomorrow morning?

Try chewing on more balderdash - maybe even your own!

Tawny

Its a great debate.

I felt like writing a letter when I seen some irish bronze (swords or something) artefacts in the British Museum. The panel said they had been found in some English aristocrats attic in the 19th century. I didn't though.

But where do you draw the line? Should the book of Kells be returned to Kells?

Biggins

Tawny wrote: »

...But where do you draw the line? Should the book of Kells be returned to Kells?

No. The government will just drive their motorway making machines over it!

thelordofcheese

Tawny wrote: »

Its a great debate.

I felt like writing a letter when I seen some irish bronze (swords or something) artefacts in the British Museum. The panel said they had been found in some English aristocrats attic in the 19th century. I didn't though.

But where do you draw the line? Should the book of Kells be returned to Kells?

I'd rather the preservation of the artefacts be the primary concern as opposed to an international pissing contest over who owns what.

If, for example, the Book of Kells was currently being stored in the British Museum in london and they were doing a good job preserving it, then i'd have no issue with it staying there.
I'd rather it be kept in good condition where it is rather than be shipped back to ireland just because where it's on display has gotten people temporarily rilled up, risking potential damage.

humanji

Tawny wrote: »

Its a great debate.

I felt like writing a letter when I seen some irish bronze (swords or something) artefacts in the British Museum. The panel said they had been found in some English aristocrats attic in the 19th century. I didn't though.

But where do you draw the line? Should the book of Kells be returned to Kells?

Wasn't there a load of priceless paintings from the Hugh Lane Gallery, or somewhere like that, that went over to the UK for a show and the British just refused to give them back? Not sure if it was ever resolved.

Biggins

On a serious side.

If its on public display for all to see and a bit of accurate info was attached to its display, explaining it and/or our history, I would have no problem with (our) artefacts being shown to the world. Despite where it was located.

It would at the very least help others understand other countries more, appreciate them, its history and the beautiful things that might come from it.

Tawny

thelordofcheese wrote: »

I'd rather the preservation of the artefacts be the primary concern as opposed to an international pissing contest over who owns what.

I'd rather it be kept in good condition where it is rather than be shipped back to ireland just because where it's on display has gotten people temporarily rilled up, risking potential damage.

I know what you mean, but a lot of artefacts tend to have got moved around due to colonialism. This means that western museums tend to have a lot of things that simply don't belong to them, like the Elgin Marbles, Benin Bronzes, Egyptian obelisks etc.

And as for preservation. What if something is where it should be but is being damaged by being there? In Galway there was a bit of a whoohaa about some stone (http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/loughrea-opposes-turoe-stone-move/) and the proposal to move it into the museum.

ejmaztec

Didn't a lot of antique stuff go walkabout before the many of the big houses got torched here, during and after the war of independence?

At one house, a few miles from here, the owner and his staff were rescuing paintings etc, when the house was on fire, and leaned them up against a garden wall, only to see some of the locals later heading off across the fields with as many paintings as they could carry.

They must have learnt something from the Brits.

Unpossible

I think if the home country is stable and safe and can look after the artifacts then they should be sent back. If the country is not, then the artifacts should be acknowlegded as belonging to that country and some kind of a rental deal should be offered by the museum that currently holds the artifacts, until such time as they can be returned. China is well capable of looking after the statues and they should be given back.

Also it wasn't the French government that sold the statues, they simply ruled that there was nothing in French law to stop the private owner selling them.