Dyscalculia, do you get frustrated with maths

E.L

Its taken me 29 years to find out i have the condition Dyscalculia.

This is a problem akin to Dyslexia but with numeracy, mathmatics.
I always had an advanced reading age growing up and I have an above average IQ, so why did i feel so frustrated with maths?.
I knew it wasn't Dyslexia because I can read fine and have no problems in that sense.
I had to attend "special classes" in maths or as people in my class used to say "your thick thats why you go to the extra maths".I couldnt read a 12 hr clock properly till i was twelve or thirteen!!!!.
I thought some of you may find this link useful as Im sure there are others who are unawares of the condition. all the other problems associated are included such as map reading , bad memory e.t.c

Polleta

I'm glad you found out about it. I discovered this condition about 10 years ago and have been trying to highlight it to people ever since.

I don't have it myself but My brothers and I are all dyslexic and I did some studies on other learning difficulties and came across dyscalculia. There is still a wide gap out there in learning about learning difficulties!! It needs to be addressed in schools. In my studies I found that only one teacher in my large secondary school(when i was there) had heard of dyscalculia. I gave them information leaflets(that I had to make myself) on the subject and they were all open to it.

It wouldn't take much to get information out there but my question is why isn't there a module on learning difficulties before teachers graduate??

I don't know why this problem isn't more widely accepted. Dyslexia is seen as a 'real' condition but if you're bad at maths, you're obviously a thicko. That's how it was at my school. I started falling behind in primary school and by the time I got to secondary, I was getting 30-40% on my tests, and not one person ever looked into it, despite the fact I obviously wasn't stupid and obviously had no general learning difficulty as I did very well in everything else. I just couldn't 'get' maths. I studied my ass off for my GCSE and just scraped a C. I know a lot of people were thinking 'God, what a thicko.' I wish I had been able to get some extra tuition or even someone understanding who didn't look down on me. Some of the maths teachers of other classes referred to my class as the 'retards' or 'mentally challenged.' :eek:

hideous ape

Good post...

Ya I'm exactly the same, always got laughed at for getting simple maths wrong. I'm in my 30's now and still cannot do basic maths. The best way I try to describe it to people is that if I was asked to add say 47 and 76, then it's like every number that exists just flashes in my mind and I can't focus on the ones I'm meant too. Its like your brain just fuzzes up with interference or something. All I end up doing is saying the numbers over and over again but can't process the actual calculation. I also have to always count on my fingers or draw out the numbers shape with my finger but still can't do the calculation. It's like my mind is running at 100% just to keep those two numbers in memory???

I can't read analogue clocks either, I have to count out each number and if I lose count I have to start again. So whenever I ask someone the time and they show me an analogue watch I just say thanks without actually knowing the time.

I am similar in that I know I am reasonably intelligent, was always able to spell any word just by the sound of it. I have much better spelling than most of my mates and they did physics at college. But maths and taking in lots of verbal info is very confusing for me. For example those questions in school - "If train A leaves Cork at such a time and Train B leaves...", I just stood there like a lemon until the teacher told me to sit down. I also remember in French class there were pictures of clocks and we had to say the time in French...I knew the French but couldn't read the clock so just said anytime. Another one is asking someone for directions, after the third or fourth direction I have tuned out and can no longer focus on what they are saying.

LeixlipRed

While it is a valid condition, I'd reckon some woeful teaching experiences at secondary level are to blame for the majority of people whose minds go blank when it comes to maths. The disparity between the standard of teaching in primary school and secondary school in maths is huge and that's where the blame lies really. For most people that is. Not to be unsympathetic OP

supersheeps

Mad, was just thinking today that dyscalculia still isn't discussed much. I had to diagnose myself a few years ago, before that I just thought that I was a bit thick. My reading skills were always off the chart at school, but I was very much middle to bottom of the class when it came to anything numerical. Basically the only way I did ok in Leaving Cert Maths was that I focused on all the questions that involved a "story"! I used to be a teacher, and ironically did one-on-ones with kids with learning difficulties. Heard about dyscalculia, and brought it up at a seminar for dyslexia/dyspraxia, the people giving the course knew nothing about it! (this was 4 years ago!)
My point is, there's little or no help out there at the moment for us, you just have to develop your own little methods of coping. I count on my fingers, use 24-hour clock, keep calculators close at hand. I'm a retail manager so have to deal with figures and large amounts of cash daily, so I just triple check everything. There have been occassions where I write numbers backwards on lodgement books or in totals, but it's been picked up by colleagues who know that my grasp of numbers is a little "different"
Did you know that dyscalculics tend to have very high reading and communication abilities, but are usually lousy with spatial awareness, concepts of length, concepts of time (so tend to be habitually late, as I have always been!), directions (I usually have to say "this hand" instead of "left" or "right", fun being in a car with me) reading music score and map work? I felt relived when I learnt all of this, as while I have a degree in Geography and play a few instruments, I was always made to feel a bit thick by certain teachers because I didn't do things by the book, had little twists on sight-reading, etc.
Hopefully more work will be done in this area as it becomes more heard of, it wasn't very reassuring to be told the whole way through school that I was just being lazy when I failed almost every maths exam!!! If anybody knows of any support sites/forums, stick 'em up please.

supersheeps

LeixlipRed wrote: »

While it is a valid condition, I'd reckon some woeful teaching experiences at secondary level are to blame for the majority of people whose minds go blank when it comes to maths. The disparity between the standard of teaching in primary school and secondary school in maths is huge and that's where the blame lies really. For most people that is. Not to be unsympathetic OP

I would certainly agree with this also, I saw it happen to a few friends, people who are 10 years out of education and still can't bring themsleves to try at maths. Add rubbish teachers, parents with high expectations (and a maths genius father!!) and an intelligent person with a rarely-recognised condition together and you get one stroppy teenager and a lot of visits to the principal during maths

liah

Wow, OP, you sound identical to me. I always excelled at English, learning languages, reading (I can read at speeds far, far above normal), writing, the arts. Always top of my class in anything creative. Above average IQ.

Couldn't even figure out what 12x15 would be without an incredibly hard think, and even then I'd probably still have to work it out on paper. Was always HORRIBLE at maths. Funnily enough I was good at algebra though.. but the rest? Hopeless.

Thought I was just stupid, but this seems incredibly fitting.

At least now I know.

LeixlipRed

Also, a lot of people in this thread are confusing maths and arithmetic. Being able to add two huge numbers together is unrelated to being good/bad at maths. My mental arithmetic is terrible yet I have a masters in Maths. One piece of advice for people who struggle with numbers is to not be afraid to make mistakes. It's no big deal if you do. And there's no shame in using pen and paper to work out a sum either. I do it all the time

Mena

LeixlipRed wrote: »

While it is a valid condition, I'd reckon some woeful teaching experiences at secondary level are to blame for the majority of people whose minds go blank when it comes to maths. The disparity between the standard of teaching in primary school and secondary school in maths is huge and that's where the blame lies really. For most people that is. Not to be unsympathetic OP

I'd have to agree this point, while not detracting from the OP's position. I only recently started enjoying maths (is that even possible?), until then, I had severe brain fade when encountering anything not overtly simplistic.

My problem however, self diagnosed of course, was the fact that my maths teacher user to beat the living crap out of me on a daily basis, to the point of bleeding. It would probably be considered abuse in this day and age but was quite acceptable back then (this was not in Ireland).

I'm pretty sure that simply caused me to shutdown on the topic and it's taken nigh on 20 years to get my brain in gear again when it comes to maths.

I'd still be way behind your average person with maths (at least I think so), but do enjoying learning/re-learning all the concepts now when I get a spare moment.

hideous ape

LeixlipRed wrote: »

While it is a valid condition, I'd reckon some woeful teaching experiences at secondary level are to blame for the majority of people whose minds go blank when it comes to maths. The disparity between the standard of teaching in primary school and secondary school in maths is huge and that's where the blame lies really. For most people that is. Not to be unsympathetic OP

Well all I know is that since day one I have had issues with taking in numerical information whether that was written or spoken. I actually have to look away from the person talking, push myself to stop my mind from wandering and then force myself to concentrate 100% on what they are saying just to take anything in. If its written down I just stare at the page and my mind is going, "la la la la la" like Homer Simpson. It feels like RAM been unable to get the info to a CPU fast enough so the RAM keeps clearing the incomplete data and starting again so the CPU never ever gets the data it needs to start or finish the process....bit geeky but thats how it feels to me. I am a qualified IT Technician who still cannot grasp basic subnetting:)

Likewise I'm very musical and creative, I can play music by ear and taught myself to play the piano. I grew up in a small rural area so the class sizes were tiny compared to other schools, the teachers were good and still I was the only one who seemed to be unable to learn like everyone else. None of my schoolmates had any schooling problems.

On the otherhand my History teacher in the Junior Cert would not tell us what main sections to cover. I got so panicked that I memorized the entire History book. I did the same thing for my college exams as a mature student a few years ago. I wrote out and memorized every single sample question answer and then repeated those answers during the exams word for word including some typo's I had made when originally writing them down. My mates couldn't understand how I was able to do that but people whose minds are unable to learn or process the information correctly will always find ways of getting around that.

Fanny Cradock

A previous poster mentioned the numbers 47 + 76.

What would be the average time taken to calculate this in your head, I wonder? It took me about 15 seconds, and even then I couldn't say with any confidence if it was correct.

Like others here I had bad experiences when being taught maths at school. Numbers now genuinely scare me and I get an bouts of anxiety any time I try to do mathematics under pressure. The result is usually a deluge of random numbers floating across my mind's eye that is not unlike the having somebody mumbling random numbers in your ear while you are trying to do a sum.

No doubt there is a marked distinction between being genuinely dyscalculic and simply being crap at maths. Personally, I think that I fall into the second group which seems to be a combination of genuine inability compounded by bad teaching. Maybe others here also fall into this group rather than being dyscalculic.

Despite all of the above I used to work in funds! Each day petrified me.

hideous ape

I think the default human mind can store the figures without much effort and then carry out processing on those figures. If I try adding 47 and 76 this is the exact process:

- I try to get the numbers into my mindseye...the numbers don't "stick".

- I repeat the numbers a few times to myself and usually after a few attempts I would forget one or both of them and have to ask what they were again or just keep reading them off a page over and over again. It's like someone says "hello" to you and you know you should say "hello" back but your brain won't make that specific word snap into your mind. So you keep asking the person to repeat what they had said to you. Hard to explain, it's like your mind gets caught in a loop at the very first stage of the process, just trying to store the numbers before it can even begin to do the calculation.

- Next I would resort to visually drawing out the shape of the numbers in thin air or on a table with my finger, just to try to picture the numbers. If they were written on a page then I end up taking in the entire page almost as one single solid snapshot rather than taking the specific numbers required. Again the problem is getting the numbers into my mindseye and storing them.

- By this stage minutes have gone by and I am still only trying to store the two numbers in my brain...never get any further than that.

- Eventually I would just give up and say a random number that will be nowhere near the answer. I'd probably just say 147 or 176 in this case.

Another example is counting money...I have to have my bus fare or the cost of something already counted out long before the bus arrives or before I go to the checkout. I usually have to count it five or six times and then keep it in a separate pocket but it's all done visually. I add coins based on the design and colour of the coin not the number on them. So if my bus fare is 1.60 well I know that a 1euro coin + 3 20cent coins will be 1.60....yet if you ask me to add the numbers 100+20+20+20...I'm back to the pattern I described above. I will often just hand over notes at the shop cause it will take too long to count out change or if some mental arithmetic is needed at the checkout then I will always just hand over a note, even though I probably have more than enough change on me.

Well thats the best way that I can describe it for me anyway.

Snowie

Im dyslexic one tip il say is dont put preasure on your self allow your self time,

John Mason

i have this

its not too bad though but i have problems obviously seeing numbers.

The worst is when people are reading out phone numbers i cant hear it unless they say it really slowly and i repeat the number after them. yet they are saying 4 and i am writing 8 and i am thinking myself "its 4, write 4, you numpty" but no my hand goes "i would rather write 8 thank you very much"

most of the time its grand, just people leaving voice messages in work and they wonder why i never call them back - cos after spending 30 mins trying to catch their phone number i just give up.

i failed maths in both my inter and leaving cert. but having said that i now studying accountancy

i dont let it effect me tbh but i cannot add up in my head and i would never even try. its freaks me out in resturants and people say how much do i owe and stuff like that. i have often paid well over the odds in resturants because i have just said we will pay half each because i couldnt even try to add up a bowl of soup and a coffee while they had a 5 course meal

JohnGalt

That video you linked to is cheesier than my helmet

Wibbs

JohnGalt, Please read the charter of this forum about off topic responses. Infracted.

Jumpy

I went to a selective school and had a very high recorded IQ, I can speed read half a page at a time and can problem solve technical issues very quickly.

BUT I CANT DO MATHS. For years this has pissed me off. Years.
I also cant read an analogue clock, or tell which hand is which.

Saruman

I wonder do I have a mild form of Dyscalculia. I have no problem looking at numbers nor simple counting but I was never able to learn my tables, never did well at maths at all actually... except perhaps percentages for some reason.
I did foundation level maths in 6th year because after doing ordinary for all the time I knew there was no way I could pass. I think I got a B in foundation level though.

Like the original poster, in every other respects I was intelligent and had a very advanced reading age. I think i was classed as a reading age of 18 when I was in 6th class (primary so I was about 11 or 12).

It is not somethign that hinders me in any way though as If i do have Dyscalculia then its very mild. Numbers confuse me if I have to do any more than add some small numbers together so basic multiplacation I can do in my head, though I have to work it out since I do not know my tables.
I once got 0% in an exam! ZERO They could have at least given me credit for my name

Like the above poster, I am very technical. Im an IT pro, i think very logically so it does not make sense why I can not do maths. My brain just turns off when I have to do anything with numbers and I have to force it to do simple things.

LegacyUser

E.L wrote: »

Its taken me 29 years to find out i have the condition Dyscalculia.

This is a problem akin to Dyslexia but with numeracy, mathmatics.
I always had an advanced reading age growing up and I have an above average IQ, so why did i feel so frustrated with maths?.
I knew it wasn't Dyslexia because I can read fine and have no problems in that sense.
I had to attend "special classes" in maths or as people in my class used to say "your thick thats why you go to the extra maths".I couldnt read a 12 hr clock properly till i was twelve or thirteen!!!!.
I thought some of you may find this link useful as Im sure there are others who are unawares of the condition. all the other problems associated are included such as map reading , bad memory e.t.c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLzFccrK8PQ

thank you for writeing that,i always had problems with maths too,i was good/ok at everything else in school,does anyone know or how do you go about getting tested for this?,i had problems with maths since childhood but never been diagnosed,but yet when comes to money and time and doing maths tables i am hopeless,i just want to find out once and for all if i have this too

hideous ape

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

i have this

its not too bad though but i have problems obviously seeing numbers.

The worst is when people are reading out phone numbers i cant hear it unless they say it really slowly and i repeat the number after them. yet they are saying 4 and i am writing 8 and i am thinking myself "its 4, write 4, you numpty" but no my hand goes "i would rather write 8 thank you very much"

most of the time its grand, just people leaving voice messages in work and they wonder why i never call them back - cos after spending 30 mins trying to catch their phone number i just give up.

i failed maths in both my inter and leaving cert. but having said that i now studying accountancy

i dont let it effect me tbh but i cannot add up in my head and i would never even try. its freaks me out in resturants and people say how much do i owe and stuff like that. i have often paid well over the odds in resturants because i have just said we will pay half each because i couldnt even try to add up a bowl of soup and a coffee while they had a 5 course meal

Lol..phone numbers are another one alright.

The person may well be saying, "12345678" but my brain takes in, "1, 2..barcelona, eh no wait 9, 700......eh what was the first number again...France no not France, 8 yes thats it...ahh nuts sleepy time for brain brain...zzzzzzz". So you ask them again and no matter how hard you focus or how many times they say it, nope didn't get it that time either.

The analogue clock thing is a weird one cause I just stare at the clock, again it's like I am seeing the entire clockface but cannot pull the info required into my brain. The only way I get anywhere is if I move my hand in a circle and kind of paint a clock, pointing a finger for each number. Then people with me realise I'm counting the wrong hand but I have to be told that I'm mixing up the hands.

Weidii

I've got dyscalculia too, it's always refreshing to hear of others in the same boat (not that I'd wish it on anyone, it just makes me feel like less of a plank)

I've always excelled in English and Art, which would be a good trade off for maths, except that my passion in life is Zoology and every science has a maths aspect to it.

If you need more folk to talk to bout it I found this website very good:

http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com

Loxosceles

My mother has that. Badly. Long division would instill panic.

UNTIL in her fifties she started reading Stephen Hawking and saw a movie called "What the Bleep Do We Know" which she perfectly understood, so for sh!ts and giggles, she sat in on an advanced physics course in a local college to try and see if she could understand it. After a little tutoring in the variables and a refresher in balancing equations, she realised that she did.

My mom found out that her spatial right brain, which artists and creative people use more often, is far more capable of comprehending advanced quantum mathematics and concepts like imaginary numbers, than people who, in childhood, are *good* at calculation.

And then she found out that Einstein had the same condition; failed in childhood maths. It turns out that the left brain is what does the symbolic and representative work in calculation whereas the right brain has to encapsulate the theoretical and imaginary concepts in quantum physics and advanced mathematics. So my mother in her fifties, terrified of math, found out that she could understand this, whereas most college students who advanced in high school math through increasing levels of adeptness at calculation, struggled.

So there you go. Try throwing away the textbooks and go straight for the big leagues. And see what happens.

E.L

Weidii wrote: »

I've got dyscalculia too, it's always refreshing to hear of others in the same boat (not that I'd wish it on anyone, it just makes me feel like less of a plank)

I've always excelled in English and Art, which would be a good trade off for maths, except that my passion in life is Zoology and every science has a maths aspect to it.

If you need more folk to talk to bout it I found this website very good:

http://www.dyscalculiaforum.com

Yes I am the same. Excelled in English went to art college and studied art and design, fashion and textiles but always fell down in pattern cutting because when it came to the measurements it was like a red mist descended.
I felt like i was back at school and when i couldn't understand the math and the rest of the class were like " yeah this is easy" the red mist would come down and i'd feel anger and be on the point of tears asking myself "why do i have to be so stupid?"
I have no sense of direction and its crazy but I still cant point out alot of countrys and where they are on a world map.

Was i the only one who didn't get into the Suduko craze? LOL

Mingey

I'm not being sexist but I wonder if this condition afflicts more women than men?

hideous ape

E.L wrote: »

Was i the only one who didn't get into the Suduko craze? LOL

Suduko an entertaining game to most people but a Japanese form of torture to me. Someone hands me a Suduko puzzle...wow its a box with numbers in it...fantastic!

LegacyUser

How do you find out if you have this? do you get diagnosed with it?

Wotzit

what a great post and for sufferers of this condition (like me and so many others who have replied) it's great to hear about how other people deal with this. I had self diagnosed myself with this about 4 years ago, somebody called into the Ray Darcy show and asked if there was a name for this condition... lots of thanks for the 'fix it friday' show!

I excelled in English (I was in the 'Monday' reading group in primary school - I thought I was a genius!!) but jesus don't ask me to do a simple sum ... sums send me into a panic. I couldn't even do the sum that was quoted here a few posts ago! but I literally EAT books, I read at a fantastic speed and I'm able to absorb the information in a flash.

As an adult I can deal with the aspect of not being able to do sums - when are you ever going to be asked to do long division on the spot???? I use a calculator constantly, double (even triple) check EVERY sum I do....but it's the taking down of phone numbers I just can't do. And it makes you feel so stupid .... 'em sorry can you repeat that again' about 5 times before I can get a number correct. They're saying 8 but I'm writing down 3. I came out of school and my first job was a RECEPTIONIST !!!!! you can just imagine...:D

The human brain is a weird and wonderful thing.

hideous ape

Unregistered wrote: »

How do you find out if you have this? do you get diagnosed with it?

I don't think it is an officially recognised issue like dyslexia yet it occurs to enough people for it to be given a name. So I don't know if there is any specific test to prove it.

galah

reading all these posts made me happy, in a weird way. At least I'm not alone...

I am constantly confused by numbers, and am scared of having to take down numbers on the phone, for example. (problem for me is also that I confuse German and English numbers - for example - 67 is 'sixty-seven' in English, but 'seven-sixty' in German - and since I do all my sums and counting in German, it's very very confusing when someone reads out numbers in English to me.

Doing my timesheet at work fills me with dread, cause it's all fractions of 1 (1 'day' equals 8 hours, so if you're in a meeting for an hour, you have to put down 0.125...and subtract the rest of the day (getting sweaty already just thinking about it...)


Also, the older I get, the more scared I am of numbers and figures, and the bigger the mental block to actually try and calculate something in my head. It's weird. At least I'm good at languages...;-)

Wibbs

Unregistered wrote: »

How do you find out if you have this? do you get diagnosed with it?

Well I'm a bloke and have this pretty bad. As a kid I would often actually stop buses and ask the driver the number. Blamed my eyesight. I kid you not. I can count now but when I run outa fingers I run outa mathematical ability for the most part. The joke is I can understand algebra. I can understand quite complex mathematical equations from a general principle idea. I can see the background maths stuff, but add in figures? Nope dead loss. I could read to a very competent standard by the time I was 2 and a half, but counting, simple counting took literally years.

whelpy

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

A previous poster mentioned the numbers 47 + 76.

What would be the average time taken to calculate this in your head, I wonder? It took me about 15 seconds, and even then I couldn't say with any confidence if it was correct.

Like others here I had bad experiences when being taught maths at school. Numbers now genuinely scare me and I get an bouts of anxiety any time I try to do mathematics under pressure. The result is usually a deluge of random numbers floating across my mind's eye that is not unlike the having somebody mumbling random numbers in your ear while you are trying to do a sum.

No doubt there is a marked distinction between being genuinely dyscalculic and simply being crap at maths. Personally, I think that I fall into the second group which seems to be a combination of genuine inability compounded by bad teaching. Maybe others here also fall into this group rather than being dyscalculic.

Despite all of the above I used to work in funds! Each day petrified me.

i might be jumping to conclusions too just because i found out about this.
Could never time from an analog clock, or do simple maths calculations in my head. Doing ol maths (obiviously) for the Leaving cert and i find the section on complex numbers and algebra easy enough, but i find everything else on the course dire.
I'm generally good at english, good sense of rhythm although in Transition Year i couldn't dance to hip hop, good at art.
Maybe im just really crap at maths:rolleyes:

Piste

Out of interest, are the people claiming to have this basing it on self-diagnosis or have they been diagnosed by an educational psychologist?

spurious

I dread to think what sort of schools people went to that this was not even diagnosed. It's a widely recognised condition. Any school with even the most rudimentary special needs department should have picked it up.

Are people speaking about being at school a long time ago?

G-Money

I'm a nordy so I don't know what the school system is like down here, but when I was going to secondary school at the end of 3rd year, we had to pick our subjects for GCSE and there were a number of subjects that you automatically had to take, Mathematics being one of them. In my school, after 3rd year, for Mathematics they divided people into three groups, Basic, intermediate and advanced and they all went to different mathematics classes. I of course was in the basic class and the teacher told me that as a result, the highest grade possible is an E.

To say I'm atrocious at mathematics is a huge understatement. I can now sort of remember how to work out percentages but I can only do it if I have a calculator, I don't even need to use the percentage button, quite chuffed at that . Seriously though, if you asked me to work it out on paper, f*****g forget about it, it would never happen. I'd never figure it out.

I remember being in primary school and my parents drilling me to learn my times tables and although I tried, I was never good at it.

Things got worse when I went to secondary school and we had to do all manner of s*** like trigonometry, Pythagoras theorem, fractions and probably loads of other stuff that I can't remember now. I have to be honest and say I probably didn't study that hard for my GCSE's and it showed in my grades (all D's and E's). I managed to get an E in Mathematics which according to my teacher was the highest it was possible to get if you were in the basic class, but that didn't make me feel much better as at the end of the day, it was still an E.

Someone posted earlier about working out some calculation and I was a bit surprised they could do it mentally in 15 seconds. I only glanced at it and I figured I could be thinking about it for a minute at least.

I do a weird thing when I'm adding or subtracting. Say you asked me to add 7 onto 34. I find it easier to add 10 onto 34 first, then take away 3. I don't know why, I just find that easier. Same with subtraction, I will take away 10, then add on the required number to bring it back up to what it should be.

I also remember being in school and they'd go onto some new thing in Mathematics and from what I remember, the teacher would go over it for a few minutes, then start giving us exercises and I'd still be struggling to understand how it works. She'd ask me if I understood it and I'd get some extra explanation but it wasn't really enough and I'd sort of say "yeah" that I understood it but it was like "yeah I can hear you, but i'm starting to feel self conscious and I still don't really understand it so I'll let you head off and talk to someone else and hopefully I'll figure it out".

The thing was that I'm not generally stupid, although some people might argue otherwise . I was going 7 subjects for GCSE, with the super smart people doing 9 and the slower people doing 5. So I guess I was about average in that respect.

I also work in the IT industry now and even at school, using computers came very easy to me. I remember being in one of my computer classes and they thought I had a computer at home as I was so good/quick at typing (I didn't have a computer at home). So in general I don't think I'm slow or anything, just numbers seem to f*** me up.

I have recently begun to develop a mild interest in engineering, however I know it is very maths intensive, or can be anyway. I posted in the Engineering forum on boards and the following book was recommended to me:

Engineering Mathematics by K.A Stroud. It covers quite basic stuff at the start unrelated to engineering. I have the book but procrastination is getting in the way of me actually reading it

I've occasionally thought about going back to some sort of adult course and re-doing my GCSE mathematics. I know I'm capable of passing, I just didn't understand the formula for working out the various calculations. I also think in school there's a lot of pressure to pick things up quickly and they don't seem to have a lot of time if you don't get it straight away. It's like they introduce a new concept, and bang, straight away your given assignments and homework without really properly understanding how it works.

Then there's the embarrassment the next day when the teacher reads out the answers to last nights homework and you get 90% of them wrong

Remind me again why I hated school with a passion?