Would you abolish all foreign aid?

JohnGalt

Personally I am not in believer in foreign aid at the best of times, but given the current economic climate, do you think that it is time that the government stopped sending aid abroad and instead used this money to alleviate problem which exist here

stovelid

Let's make a step in the right direction by abolishing threads on abolishing foreign aid.

thelordofcheese

stovelid wrote: »

Let's make a step in the right direction by abolishing threads on abolishing foreign aid.

/thread

Guy:Incognito

To the people voting that no cuts should be made, why exactly not when the country is ****ed? Charity begins at home as they say, so why should a billion euro be heaidng overseas in aid?

Dave!

No thanks, Africans don't stop having AIDS and dying of starvation and thirst during recessions. When Irish people start dying of recession then I'd consider abolishing it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

We were quick enough to hold out the paw when we were in dire straits.

.

acontadino

No, sure that would just be silly.



ummm to the people who voted cut all handouts for ever, wonder what Ireland would look like now if it wasn't for the EU Structural Funds.

Guy:Incognito

Dave! wrote: »

No thanks, Africans don't stop having AIDS and dying of starvation and thirst during recessions. When Irish people start dying of recession then I'd consider abolishing it.

Why wait that long?

I know its not flavour of the month anymore but are people lying (and dieing) on hospital trolleys not a good reason?

Just because people arent going to actually die is not a reason anyway to send money that is needed here abroad.

MrMicra

Boards <> Stormfront

Or does it there is a real toleration for this c rap nowadays.

Guy:Incognito

MrMicra wrote: »

Boards <> Stormfront

Or does it there is a real toleration for this c rap nowadays.

Ah the good old "say anything thats not entirely positive (note, it doesnt even have to be negative) about anyone or anywhere that isnt Irish/Ireland and your a racist" brigade are in.

If a close friend of yours or a member of your family is in financial trouble will you say "sorry, cant help, have to lend money to a guy in the pub I met last night"? Or if we want it to be closer to the subject, will you give money to concern and leave your child or any other member of your family short of somethign they need? Why sshoudl it be different on a larger scale?

Mena

Stekelly wrote: »

To the people voting that no cuts should be made, why exactly not when the country is ****ed? Charity begins at home as they say, so why should a billion euro be heaidng overseas in aid?

Because your inability to continue paying for your second house and your McBurger is far, far less important than people who are dying because the water they have to drink, which is located miles away, is infested with faeces and the last bit of food they ate you'd never even give to your dog.

acontadino

great to see the poll destroying the social darwinists views on here. just under 90%. fair play boardsies.

stovelid

We're clearly running out of recession scapegoats at such a rapid rate, we have to double back near weekly.

Why just sticky a scapegoat rant mega-thread about foreign aid / travellers / single mothers / long-term unemployed / lower grade civil servants / nurses to save server resources?

Guy:Incognito

Mena wrote: »

Because your inability to continue paying for your second house and your McBurger is far, far less important than people who are dying because the water they have to drink, which is located miles away, is infested with faeces and the last bit of food they ate you'd never even give to your dog.

I have no intentions of tryign to hid my indifference to people outside my family and friends.
What my son needs comes first on the list whether someone somewhere else in the world that I dont know needs something or not.

There are plenty of people in Ireland that are dieing and plenty living in poverty, why are they less deserving of the money?

Dave!

Stekelly wrote: »

Why wait that long?

I know its not flavour of the month anymore but are people lying (and dieing) on hospital trolleys not a good reason?

Just because people arent going to actually die is not a reason anyway to send money that is needed here abroad.

People lying on hospital beds is not a money issue, there's been no shortage of money in this country but the health service (beds, MRSA, etc.) remains the same.

The need for money in Ireland is laughable compared to the need in other countries, so I'm afraid some perspective is needed. As I said, people in other countries don't stop dying just because there's a recession. I don't see how you could justify withdrawing aid.

What if every country takes your approach? All the big dogs are suffering also, America, China, all of Europe. So everyone abolishes overseas aid.

What happens to the rest of the world? Canada and Finland (or whatever countries remain standing) will be able to support them?

And btw I don't buy that "charity begins at home" line -- charity should go where it's most needed.

Mena

Stekelly wrote: »

I have no intentions of tryign to hid my indifference to people outside my family and friends.
What my son needs comes first on the list whether someone somewhere else int he world that I dotn know needs something or not.

Fair enough, but the government giving away a paltry 1 billion euro (as you stated) is not going to hinder you in an way in your ability to feed your children.

Despite what the popular media say, we're not yet at the cannibalism stage.

cornbb

It should be reduced in line with how other areas of expenditure are reduced. We should never stop helping those whose situations are far worse than ours unless we are completely f*cked ourselves (and I mean war-torn/famine/AIDS epidemic sort of f*cked). Surely we are bigger than that.

Guy:Incognito

Mena wrote: »

Fair enough, but the government giving away a paltry 1 billion euro (as you stated) is not going to hinder you in an way in your ability to feed your children.

Despite what the popular media say, we're not yet at the cannibalism stage.

Would a billion extra in the budget not offset some of the imminent tax hikes?

Mena

Stekelly wrote: »

Would a billion extra in the budget not offset some of the imminent tax hikes?

I don't know. It might, but that's neither here nor there.

Look, until you've seen the kind of poverty we're talking about here, you really have no clue. We're living like kings here in Ireland in comparison. I spent the guts of 27 years in Africa. I've seen this first hand, smelt it, tasted it.

Until you have done the same, you simply cannot comprehend it.

cornbb

Stekelly wrote: »

Would a billion extra in the budget not offset some of the imminent tax hikes?

A billion extra in this country would slightly ease some of the sh*t that is going down. It would save a few jobs or build a few hospitals. A billion extra in a 3rd world country would probably save many hundreds of lives and improve the quality of life for thousands of others.

Guy:Incognito

Mena wrote: »

I don't know. It might, but that's neither here nor there.
.

You said it wont hinder my ability to provide in any way. Any drop in money will clearly hinder me.

Dave!

Stekelly wrote: »

Would a billion extra in the budget not offset some of the imminent tax hikes?

jesus christ -- you'd take a loaf of bread from a starving African to avoid paying some extra tax? Get a f*cking grip

Guy:Incognito

cornbb wrote: »

A billion extra in this country would slightly ease some of the sh*t that is going down. It would save a few jobs or build a few hospitals. A billion extra in a 3rd world country would probably save many hundreds of lives and improve the quality of life for thousands of others.

It would save the lives directly in the cases of lots of people who die here each your from poverty, being homeless etc. Cervical cancer vaccine?
Are our own peopel less important?

Would you sacrifice a family member to save 500 people you never met?

Dave! wrote: »

jesus christ -- you'd take a loaf of bread from a starving African to avoid paying some extra tax? Get a f*cking grip

Jesus Christ - you'd reply to a quote without reading the context it was replying to?

JohnGalt

Dave! wrote: »

jesus christ -- you'd take a loaf of bread from a starving African to avoid paying some extra tax? Get a f*cking grip

I for one certainly would. I owe them nothing and I should not be obligated to help them. My existence is mine alone to enjoy and I do not have to help anyone but myself

acontadino

JohnGalt wrote: »

I for one certainly would. I owe them nothing and I should not be obligated to help them. My existence is mine alone to enjoy and I do not have to help anyone but myself

HUMANITY FAILS

Mena

JohnGalt wrote: »

I for one certainly would. I owe them nothing and I should not be obligated to help them. My existence is mine alone to enjoy and I do not have to help anyone but myself

You've no humanity in you, at all. I pity you, and am only thankful that not everyone has this closeted view.

Guy:Incognito

acontadino wrote: »

HUMANITY FAILS

Self-preservation wins.

acontadino

I know some people think this money gets into the wrong hands, but damn open your eyes. go to these places and see what a difference this money makes to peoples daily lives. really some of you are heartless, how can you feel this way?

acontadino

Stekelly wrote: »

Self-preservation wins.

social-darwinist.

Guy:Incognito

acontadino wrote: »

how can you feel this way?

How can you feel that someone who dies on your own doorstep is less important than 50 or 100 people a few thousand miles away? Is that not heartless too?

I'll ask again. Would you sacrifice a family member to save the lives of 500 (thats a deliberatly high number to favour your decsion) people you dont know and will never see?


Out of interest, which family member are you havign executed shoudl you go that route?

cornbb

Stekelly wrote: »

It would save the lives directly in the cases of lots of people who die here each your from poverty, being homeless etc. Cervical cancer vaccine?
Are our own peopel less important?

Would you sacrifice a family member to save 500 people you never met?

Would you be willing to give up your car on the basis that you might one day kill a pedestrian? Of course not... and I see you've very carefully chosen your words there. See how I've twisted mine too?

No-one is sacrificing anyone's life in order to pay for foreign aid. Should we stop funding the arts in order to pump money into hospitals? Should we stop building roads and bridges on the basis that "saving lives" is more important? Should we abolish all education because the money would be better spent elsewhere? Of course not. Then why should we stop sending money to those who need it? Foreign aid from Ireland is a drop in the ocean compared to what we spend at home, on our own people. Shame on anyone who would say that we cannot afford to send a tiny fraction of our wealth to those who badly need it.

Guy:Incognito

cornbb wrote: »

Would you be willing to give up your car on the basis that you might one day kill a pedestrian? Of course not... and I see you've very carefully chosen your words there. See how I've twisted mine too?.

We're not talking about the possibility of me killing someone. People ARE dieing in Ireland unessecarily.


If I'm doing my personal budgeting, the first thing to go is giving money away tbh.

Dave!

Stekelly wrote: »

It would save the lives directly in the cases of lots of people who die here each your from poverty, being homeless etc. Cervical cancer vaccine?
Are our own peopel less important?

Would you sacrifice a family member to save 500 people you never met?

Jesus Christ - you'd reply to a quote without reading the context it was replying to?

And there was no homeless people during the Celtic Tiger? Of course there was, because it's not simply a money issue.

As for the cervical cancer vaccine, you don't think there is any other way to source €10 million? I'll tell you what, cut €44 k from the salary of each TD and senator, and there you have it, 10 million more or less. You don't think there's any better ways? Okay cut a little less from TDs' salaries, but take some from the ministerial salaries and get rid of some of the junior ministers that are there to make people feel like they're influencing things.

No? What about all those other senior civil servants and PR people employed by the government?

JohnGalt wrote: »

I for one certainly would. I owe them nothing and I should not be obligated to help them. My existence is mine alone to enjoy and I do not have to help anyone but myself

My hero. Unfortunately for you, you already pay taxes and they've gone towards paying my college fees and they'll go towards my dole once I graduate. Hate that.

CDfm

we need the money ourselves.

Boston

Yes, but only because I'm unsure what the real large scale benefit of foreign aid is. To me it often seems to be used as a means for developed countries to exert control and influence under less developed ones, often to their ultimate detriment.

Dave!

CDfm wrote: »

we need the money ourselves.

Spoken like a true Christian CDfm! :eek:


SteKelly, what happens when all the other countries in recession follow our lead and withdraw overseas aid?

cornbb

Stekelly wrote: »

We're not talking about the possibility of me killing someone.

Then maybe you should stop implying that people who support overseas aid are "killing" people in Ireland, I'm highly insulted by that.

People ARE dieing in Ireland unessecarily.

So are people all over the world. And you would deny a huge amount of people the chance to live (or lead vastly improved lifestyles) on the basis that the money might help a few of own people. Don't you think we could get the money from someone else? You haven't answered my question about taking funding from other areas.

You're talking like you care only for yourself and those immediately around you. You clearly don't give a crap about anyone else. You've failed to show an ounce of humanity or empathy and you just sound like you are bitter that Irish money is going to foreigners.

Capt'n Midnight

*broken record*
the poll is missing the option to increase aid because it is more needed now.

the total amount of Irish aid this year is less than €800m
if we halved the already reduced Irish aid we might just pay for these 10 wasters
http://www.angloirishbank.com/Media-Centre/Press_Release_HTML/Anglo_Irish_Bank_Publishes_Report_and_Accounts_for_the_Year_Ended_30_September_2008.html

the total amount loaned to ten longstanding clients of the Bank to buy shares from the CFD providers was €451 million of which €83 million has been repaid

But they may cost us more than that since a lot of other investors are planning to sue over the share support scheme http://www.tribune.ie/article/2009/mar/01/sean-quinn-may-sue-anglo-over-golden-circle-say-sh/ the Quinn family and the other two investors mentioned lost €1.9Bn between them

Canceling Irish Aid wouldn't even get us out of that hole in Anglo Irish even though we own most of the bank. :mad:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0212/breaking25.htm

The Overseas Development Aid (ODA) budget, which was set last October, will now be cut from €891 million to €796 million, a reduction from 0.56 per cent of GNP to 0.53 per cent.
...
Mr Zomer noted that the Government has previously committed to providing 0.7 per cent of GNP in overseas aid by 2012.
...
The ODA budget was reduced by €45 million in July 2007 and by a further €15 million last October, a total cut of 17.2 per cent.

The commitment was to increase aid by 25% , the reality was a 17.2% drop

JohnGalt

Dave! wrote: »

SteKelly, what happens when all the other countries in recession follow our lead and withdraw overseas aid?

There is no reason to believe that would happen, but why would that matter, it means less european money wasted helping other countries, a better situation for europe

CDfm

whatever it is currently we cant afford it.

Mena

CDfm wrote: »

whatever it is currently we cant afford it.

Your hypocrisy, frankly, sickens me.

Nodin

JohnGalt wrote: »

Personally I am not in believer in foreign aid at the best of times, but given the current economic climate, do you think that it is time that the government stopped sending aid abroad and instead used this money to alleviate problem which exist here

I think we should abolish domestic aid to those who don't need it. For instance, if you've a house in Gorey and another in D4, you don't need a half mill plus pay off at the irish tax payers expense, or a pension in six figures.

CDfm wrote:

whatever it is currently we cant afford it.

And Christ be with you too.

scorpioishere

Dave! wrote: »

No thanks, Africans don't stop having AIDS and dying of starvation and thirst during recessions. When Irish people start dying of recession then I'd consider abolishing it.

Well done Dave, i fully agree with you. People is talking about recession, if you see everyday how many people are shopping, buying, eating in restaurants, drinking in pubs, making all these little extras and then they come up and said that charity begins at home. Some people doesn't have even a grain of rice to eat or a drop of water to drink somewhere in the world so stop complaining. Dnt forget the times,, you, your parents or your grand parents had to deal with the famine in ireland.

DNT BE SO SELFISH

Gone West

Seriously lads.
They need it a lot more than us.
Yeah, the economy is in the sh1tter, but we don't have widespread diseases, hunger, famine, warlords, and the rest of it.

And yes, I know that a lot of the money isn't going to the right places, but thats another issue entirely, and redundant as a point in favour of aboloshing foreign aid.

scorpioishere

CDfm wrote: »

we need the money ourselves.

No we don't need that money here. So many people here in ireland are lazy ****ers who wants everything done for them. Instead they should be working and not be on the dole all their life and benefits every euros. People are well able to work here but they are too lazy and wants everything done for them. At least some people somewhere in the world are worth that money and at least they could get some food and water whereas you here are having your dinner in restaurant, having a pint, enjoying life to the maximum on the dole money.

JohnGalt

scorpioishere wrote: »

No we don't need that money here. So many people here in ireland are lazy ****ers who wants everything done for them. Instead they should be working and not be on the dole all their life and benefits every euros. People are well able to work here but they are too lazy and wants everything done for them. At least some people somewhere in the world are worth that money and at least they could get some food and water whereas you here are having your dinner in restaurant, having a pint, enjoying life to the maximum on the dole money.

Not everybody on Ireland is on the dole, and those who are deserve just about as much of my money as the Africans do, exactly zero. If you earn your own money you alone deserve it, and you should not be obligated to divert a cent of it to something other than your own desires.

Nodin

JohnGalt wrote: »

Not everybody on Ireland is on the dole, and those who are deserve just about as much of my money as the Africans do, exactly zero. If you earn your own money you alone deserve it, and you should not be obligated to divert a cent of it to something other than your own desires.

So no tax either?

JohnGalt

Nodin wrote: »

So no tax either?

Ideally much less tax due to much smaller government with the free market taking care of most things without interference, but taxation is not necessarily excluded by my previous statement, provided that it is not sent to a foreign country or poured over the idle, as is the case now.

cornbb

JohnGalt wrote: »

Ideally much less tax due to much smaller government with the free market taking care of most things without interference, but taxation is not necessarily excluded by my previous statement, provided that it is not sent to a foreign country or poured over the idle, as is the case now.

Yep, your previous post implied that you wouldn't want to pay tax. Not paying tax would be the only way to ensure that your money doesn't go to anything that doesn't consist of "your desires".

God forbid you should ever get sick or lose your job, by the way.

JohnGalt

cornbb wrote: »

Yep, your previous post implied that you wouldn't want to pay tax. Not paying tax would be the only way to ensure that your money doesn't go to anything that doesn't consist of "your desires".

That is not the case. My desires may include initiatives which are paid for by taxation, in which case I would hypothetically not have any problem with paying taxes as it is in line with my desires.

wylo

FuzzyLogic wrote: »

Seriously lads.
They need it a lot more than us.
Yeah, the economy is in the sh1tter, but we don't have widespread diseases, hunger, famine, warlords, and the rest of it.

And yes, I know that a lot of the money isn't going to the right places, but thats another issue entirely, and redundant as a point in favour of aboloshing foreign aid.

Agreed, im shocked at the poll results so far.

We really have no comprehension of the hell they go through in the worse areas over there, spending every day hoping your child will live that day, seeing disease ridden families around you, comforting friends because they have just lost someone in their family.