Dealer reneges on a new car deal!

JoeA3 · 03-03-2009 11:42am #1

Hi folks,

My Dad was due to collect a new Ford Focus this friday, trading in his '06 Focus. He ordered the new car before Xmas, and it arrived in a few weeks ago, but he arranged not to collect till this week (tax at new month, etc). All OK so far!

This morning, the saleman calls him. Bad news. He says they have to back out of the deal, they cannot take any more 2nd hand stock in! The new car is still there if he wants it, but they're no longer interested in his old one.

I already advised him to contact his solicitor, which he has done, and she says he's entered into a contract, he's paid a deposit, so they are legally bound to go through with the deal.

He's gonna go into them today and talk nicely first, if that gets him nowhere, then play hardball. Does he have much leg to stand on ye think?

If the boot was on the other foot and he pulled out, would he have gotten his deposit back? I reckon not!

quad_red · 03-03-2009 11:46am

JoeA3 wrote: »

If the boot was on the other foot and he pulled out, would he have gotten his deposit back? I reckon not!

So he's put a deposit down? What does the receipt say? Does he have anything in writing?

JoeA3 · 03-03-2009 11:51am

quad_red wrote: »

So he's put a deposit down? What does the receipt say? Does he have anything in writing?

Yes, deposit paid since day of order, and he has it in writing!

I know dealers are going through a tough time (aren't we all) but this type of thing is not on. If the shoe was on the other foot, can you imagine the salesman's reaction.

smash · 03-03-2009 11:56am

Does the receipt say anything about a trade in though? or just that he's left a deposit on a new car...

JoeA3 · 03-03-2009 11:59am

steve06 wrote: »

Does the receipt say anything about a trade in though? or just that he's left a deposit on a new car...

I couldn't tell you that for certain to be honest. I'll try finding out!

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 11:59am

Did he sign an order form?

According to the terms and condidtions on the order forms for a sale
- "This order and any trade-in allowance offered to you will not bind the dealer until this order form is signed by or on behalf of the dealer"

I think your father will get his deposit back. I also think that he wont have much of a case - he has his money back, and is not out of pocket.

The best thing he can do is go and buy from a different dealer. Why risk legal fees?

If the dealer cant take the trade in, he cant do the deal. A court wont order them to take the trade in if it puts the business and jobs at risk.

maidhc · 03-03-2009 12:00pm

JoeA3 wrote: »

I already advised him to contact his solicitor, which he has done, and she says he's entered into a contract, he's paid a deposit, so they are legally bound to go through with the deal.

Then you have more informed opinion than you will get here!

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:05pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

A court wont order them to take the trade in if it puts the business and jobs at risk.

A court will look at the legal standing of the contract, whether it puts the business & jobs at risk is irrelevant.

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:08pm

I dont know. Its an interesting one to say the least.

But i want to know why the OP's father is going legal with it. It hasnt cost him anything, except a bit of time.

Why not just take it on the chin, and buy from a different dealer who will take his car in instead??

It seems to me he's going to cause himself a lot of bother to buy from this particular dealer.

Bandara · 03-03-2009 12:08pm

imagine how bad things must be at the dealership if they are prepared to lose the sale !!!!!!!!!!!

The salesman must be doing his nut having the sale taken away from him

JoeA3 · 03-03-2009 12:08pm

Thanks lads, I'll let ye know how it goes.

Its not the end of the world I know, people have more pressing concerns right now (such as losing their jobs!), but he's very disappointed about it, this is a dealer he's bought cars off for years and years, so he feels very shabbily treated.

Another stark reminder of how bad things are gone really.

robtri · 03-03-2009 12:10pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Did he sign an order form?

According to the terms and condidtions on the order forms for a sale
- "This order and any trade-in allowance offered to you will not bind the dealer until this order form is signed by or on behalf of the dealer"

I think your father will get his deposit back. I also think that he wont have much of a case - he has his money back, and is not out of pocket.

The best thing he can do is go and buy from a different dealer. Why risk legal fees?

If the dealer cant take the trade in, he cant do the deal. A court wont order them to take the trade in if it puts the business and jobs at risk.

If the dealer has made a deal with the guy, he should be required to honor that agreement,
And the court won't care about the business or jobs, the court is only concerned with the law and will uphold any legally binding contract.... and legally binding contract is very broad in its interpertation, not just confined to a dealer order form....
its absolute crap and ****ty of a dealer to do this.... and completely unacceptable.

smash · 03-03-2009 12:10pm

would you really take someone to court and then buy the car from them, and then expect them to be nice to you if something happens and you're looking for your warranty to cover it?

ellobee · 03-03-2009 12:11pm

I think his only chance of getting this deal to happen is to go in there heavy handed threating solictors and all that stuff and if that doesn't work then forget about it, get your deposit back and go somewhere else, I've heard about this happening quite a lot recently and it's not that the dealer has too much stock, it's just that things are so bad that he probably can't even afford to put 10k or whatever he allowed you into the 06 focus and there is probably a fair chance he wont even be around in 6 months

R.O.R · 03-03-2009 12:13pm

JoeA3 wrote: »

Hi folks,

My Dad was due to collect a new Ford Focus this friday, trading in his '06 Focus. He ordered the new car before Xmas, and it arrived in a few weeks ago, but he arranged not to collect till this week (tax at new month, etc). All OK so far!

This morning, the saleman calls him. Bad news. He says they have to back out of the deal, they cannot take any more 2nd hand stock in! The new car is still there if he wants it, but they're no longer interested in his old one.

I already advised him to contact his solicitor, which he has done, and she says he's entered into a contract, he's paid a deposit, so they are legally bound to go through with the deal.

He's gonna go into them today and talk nicely first, if that gets him nowhere, then play hardball. Does he have much leg to stand on ye think?

If the boot was on the other foot and he pulled out, would he have gotten his deposit back? I reckon not!

It wouldn't be a Ford dealer in South Dublin by any chance?

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:13pm

steve06 wrote: »

would you really take someone to court and then buy the car from them, and then expect them to be nice to you if something happens and you're looking for your warranty to cover it?

He can just use a different Ford dealer, why would he want to go back to the same one after the way they're behaving?

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:13pm

Lads if the dealer isnt in a position to do the deal, he cant do it. It happens every day, in other industries too.

They were obviously ordered by their finance house not to take in any more stock. Do you ignore that and take in more cars and get closed down, or do you listen to them?

Think about what your sayin here. You want the dealer to close down over one deal is the basics of it. Do you think the dealer would refuse a sale in these times unless it was for a very serious reason.

As usual, i think some people come onto Boards with a very un-resonable attitude.

Not aimed at you OP.

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:14pm

R.O.R wrote: »

It wouldn't be a Ford dealer in South Dublin by any chance?

Thought that myself, but didnt want to say anything.

robtri · 03-03-2009 12:15pm

steve06 wrote: »

would you really take someone to court and then buy the car from them, and then expect them to be nice to you if something happens and you're looking for your warranty to cover it?

YES.... no problem I would, and I would then use a differnt dealer for warranty work....
it is stuff like this that gives the motor trade its bad name.... and worse still people seem to be ok with it, telling OP to just forget and move on..
the motor trade will always be mistrusted when customers are dealt with like this...

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:16pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Lads if the dealer isnt in a position to do the deal, he cant do it. It happens every day, in other industries too.

They were obviously ordered by their finance house not to take in any more stock. Do you ignore that and take in more cars and get closed down, or do you listen to them?

Think about what your sayin here. You want the dealer to close down over one deal is the basics of it. Do you think the dealer would refuse a sale in these times unless it was for a very serious reason.

As usual, i think some people come onto Boards with a very un-resonable attitude.

Not aimed at you OP.

All the OP wants is for the dealer to honour the agreement they made. The dealer's financial situation is their own affair, and irrelevant to the rest of the world. Honestly, Drummerboy08, you're starting to sound more and more like the taxi drivers! We're not here to keep the motor trade afloat.

smash · 03-03-2009 12:18pm

I have to agree with Drummerboy08 on this one... It's not always the dealers fault!

I know of a few dealers that came in one morning to find letters from their finance companies to say that upon reviewing finance applications for a 2nd time, numerous applications were now being refused. At this point cars had been ordered and deposits had been taken... that's massive financial pressure put on them.

This dealer could be the same and just can't afford to take the trade in as with it, he mightn't have the money to cover the cost of the car purchase from the distributor.

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:18pm

Anan1 wrote: »

All the OP wants is for the dealer to honour the agreement they made. The dealer's financial situation is their own affair, and irrelevant to the rest of the world. Honestly, Drummerboy08, you're starting to sound more and more like the taxi drivers! We're not here to keep the motor trade afloat.

But when they physically cant do the deal what do you expect them to do? Give you the car for nothing? Come on.

robtri · 03-03-2009 12:20pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Lads if the dealer isnt in a position to do the deal, he cant do it. It happens every day, in other industries too.

They were obviously ordered by their finance house not to take in any more stock. Do you ignore that and take in more cars and get closed down, or do you listen to them?

Think about what your sayin here. You want the dealer to close down over one deal is the basics of it. Do you think the dealer would refuse a sale in these times unless it was for a very serious reason.

As usual, i think some people come onto Boards with a very un-resonable attitude.

Not aimed at you OP.

There is a difference between refusing a sale and backing out of a deal.... I personally have no issue with a dealer refusing to take a trade in... but if he agreed and contracted himself to take a trade in and sell a new car, and took a deposit for such, then yes, he should be required to honor that deal...

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:21pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

But when they physically cant do the deal what do you expect them to do? Give you the car for nothing? Come on.

Honour the contract they signed, just like everyone else.

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:21pm

robtri wrote: »

There is a difference between refusing a sale and backing out of a deal.... I personally have no issue with a dealer refusing to take a trade in... but if he agreed and contracted himself to take a trade in and sell a new car, and took a deposit for such, then yes, he should be required to honor that deal...

Yes he should be required to honour it IF he can do so.

As i said, if he has been ordered by the finance companies not to take in any more stock, what can he do?

justsomebloke · 03-03-2009 12:21pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I dont know. Its an interesting one to say the least.

But i want to know why the OP's father is going legal with it. It hasnt cost him anything, except a bit of time.

Why not just take it on the chin, and buy from a different dealer who will take his car in instead??

It seems to me he's going to cause himself a lot of bother to buy from this particular dealer.

chances are that he has actually lost out if he is looking to buy the same car as chances are that if he now goes to a different dealer he probably won't get the same trade in value on his second hand car so will have to part with more cash to get the same car.

OP unless you have soemthing in writing spitulating that they will take the car as a trade in on the new car and have written the trade in price down as welll, then chances are the garage will be able to get out of the deal

smash · 03-03-2009 12:22pm

robtri wrote: »

There is a difference between refusing a sale and backing out of a deal.... I personally have no issue with a dealer refusing to take a trade in... but if he agreed and contracted himself to take a trade in and sell a new car, and took a deposit for such, then yes, he should be required to honor that deal...

The car was ordered before christmas... the industry has changed a lot over the last 2 months!

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:23pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Honour the contract they signed, just like everyone else.

Give you a 20k + car out of their stock, take in another car at 7k+ all while the finance company is trying to close them down? Thats not how it works.

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:25pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Give you a 20k + car out of their stock, take in another car at 7k+ all while the finance company is trying to close them down? Thats not how it works.

Like I keep telling you, that's the dealer's problem. The customer is no more responsible for the dealership's finances than I am!

smash · 03-03-2009 12:27pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Like I keep telling you, that's the dealer's problem. The customer is no more responsible for the dealership's finances than I am!

Yea and if you can't pay your mortgage and you have a tenant and have to tell them to move out because you're selling up... If they pull the 'tenants rights' card and say "it's your problem" how would you feel?

you see, some times it's not financially viable!

peasant · 03-03-2009 12:27pm

steve06 wrote: »

The car was ordered before christmas... the industry has changed a lot over the last 2 months!

that could be a blessing in disguise ...there might be a better deal out there now

Lord Trollington · 03-03-2009 12:28pm

i'd imagine what drummerboy08 is saying is correct, it would be down to there financial house rather than the dealer themselves.
All used cars in Dealers lots are under finance to a finance company, and are costing dealers finance repayments and interest repayments weekly and monthly.
if the finance company has instructed the dealer to take no more trade ins well the dealer cant.
The delaers must be in a bad state of Afairs to be honest.
With the car already being in ireland, i'd go to another dealer and dela else where and get them to get my car from the original dealer!!

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:28pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Like I keep telling you, that's the dealer's problem. The customer is no more responsible for the dealership's finances than I am!

It is the dealers problem, your right.

What do you expect him to do. Go through with the deal, at the risk of being shut down? If it is, i think thats a very selfish, unreasonable attitude to have.

If it was me, i would go to a different garage. Easy. None of this hassle with solicitors etc.

robtri · 03-03-2009 12:29pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Give you a 20k + car out of their stock, take in another car at 7k+ all while the finance company is trying to close them down? Thats not how it works.

no it doesn't work like that youa re right, the car if RRP is €20k propably only cost the garage, €13K if even, with the discounts being offered by the manufactureers, the massive registrations bonuses, vat write down, so if in this example the cusomer is pay €13k cash, they really aren't being too badly effected by this one deal....

garages like this and leasing companies in the past and to this day, do the same to their customers, they lease cars to customers, when the customer is going broke and can't pay the lease anymore, they bring the customer to court and sue the arse of him.... WHY is it any different, if there is a contract, the garage is required by law to honor it no matter what...

justsomebloke · 03-03-2009 12:30pm

Anan1 wrote: »

Like I keep telling you, that's the dealer's problem. The customer is no more responsible for the dealership's finances than I am!

but it's only the dealers problem if he has legally spitualted that he will take in a trade in at a certain value other then that he has probably only given you an "offer" to take the car in at that value so can be withdrawn if it has to

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:31pm

steve06 wrote: »

Yea and if you can't pay your mortgage and you have a tenant and have to tell them to move out because you're selling up... If they pull the 'tenants rights' card and say "it's your problem" how would you feel?

you see, some times it's not financially viable!

That is not the OP's fathers problem. How many ways do you want me to put it?

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:34pm

Anan1 wrote: »

That is not the OP's fathers problem. How many ways do you want me to put it?

And how many ways do you want me to explain that the dealer obviously cannot do it!!

What would happen if it was the other way around? If the customer lost his job and could not afford to go through with the deal? Would you think he still has to take the car, or would you be screaming that the dealer is ripping him off?

pred racer · 03-03-2009 12:35pm

drummerboy, we all see your point and sympathise with people going through tough financial times just coz the financial sector is tightening up. But the argument "I just cant do what i agreed" is not good enough, you or I dont have that facility with contracts we have agreed to (car loan, mortgage, leases etc.) if the shoe were on the other foot and the op tried to pull out (we get threads on that here too and the advice they are given is that if you signed the contract, tough!) do you not think that the dealer would be keeping deposits threatening law and screaming blue murder?
Although its also true that if he gets his deposit back hes not out of pocket and can try again somewhere else, but why should he have to? If contracts can be broken, why bother signing them?

F-Stop · 03-03-2009 12:37pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

What would happen if it was the other way around? If the customer lost his job and could not afford to go through with the deal?

In that case wouldn't the dealer be compensated by keeping the deposit that was paid? The buyer would definitely lose out in that scenario.

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:38pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

And how many ways do you want me to explain that the dealer obviously cannot do it!!

What would happen if it was the other way around? If the customer lost his job and could not afford to go through with the deal? Would you think he still has to take the car, or would you be screaming that the dealer is ripping him off?

All we know is that the dealer will not do it. The notion that fulfilling this one contract will push the dealership into recievership is as yet unproven (and still irrelevant). A contract is a contract, sob stories don't change anything.

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:38pm

If there is nothing signed, with only a receipt for a deposit, the dealer hands it back.

Its happened so many times recently that i know it inside out at this stage.

Dave147 · 03-03-2009 12:39pm

Joe the Santa wrote: »

but it's only the dealers problem if he has legally spitualted that he will take in a trade in at a certain value other then that he has probably only given you an "offer" to take the car in at that value so can be withdrawn if it has to

It's stipulated

robtri · 03-03-2009 12:39pm

pred racer wrote: »

Although its also true that if he gets his deposit back hes not out of pocket and can try again somewhere else, but why should he have to? If contracts can be broken, why bother signing them?

Actually thats not true.....
first of all there's the interest on the deposit.... who get to keep that one, I know not a huge amount but thats not the point...
What about the time spent by the OP on this deal.... who will pay for that.... what if the OP had to take a day of work to go down and sign contracts...who will pay for that...
Also if he agreed ( i do say if) with the dealer a price on the trade in, that price has more than likely dropped, and now when he goes to another garage his car will be worth less and he will ahve to pay a lot more money...

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:41pm

Anan1 wrote: »

All we know is that the dealer will not do it. The notion that fulfilling this one contract will push the dealership into recievership is as yet unproven (and still irrelevant). A contract is a contract, sob stories don't change anything.

Why doesnt the OP ask why the dealer cant do the deal? If its from the finance house, then i believe the dealer is legally clear. The company have been ordered by their finance company that they cant do take more stock.

A judge will see evidence of this from the finance company, and the OP's father will have serious bother for nothing.

justsomebloke · 03-03-2009 12:41pm

Dave147 wrote: »

It's stipulated

hey I'm sick and my brain isn't working properly

ellobee · 03-03-2009 12:43pm

robtri wrote: »

no it doesn't work like that youa re right, the car if RRP is €20k propably only cost the garage, €13K if even, with the discounts being offered.

Jesus you'd know you don't work in the Motor Industry, There is no one in Ireland selling new cars that have more than 50% mark up

Anan1 · 03-03-2009 12:43pm

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Why doesnt the OP ask why the dealer cant do the deal? If its from the finance house, then i believe the dealer is legally clear. The company have been ordered by their finance company that they cant do take more stock.

A judge will see evidence of this from the finance company, and the OP's father will have serious bother for nothing.

How would a refusal of finance make the dealer 'legally clear' of a signed contract?

pred racer · 03-03-2009 12:43pm

just to clarify, not having a go at you drummerboy, it just pisses me off that if I put a deposit on a house and pull out the builder gets to keep my deposit, but if he finds someone who will pay more, I get my deposit back and told to fcuk off, it seems the same in this case, that joe public has to abide by everything and businesses seem to be able to cite poverty or anything else they remembered to put in their terms and conditions to fcuk you over.......
sorry for the rant.

TheBazman · 03-03-2009 12:46pm

Surely either way the dealer has 1 car on the forecourt, either the 06 Focus or the brand new one (assuming the Ops dad pulls out of the deal). Would it not make more sense for the dealer to sit with the 06 one given that worse case scenario he cant sell either?

Drummerboy08 · 03-03-2009 12:48pm

Anan1 wrote: »

How would a refusal of finance make the dealer 'legally clear' of a signed contract?

It's like banging my head off a brick wall with you.

Look.

Facts of this issue.

Customer orders car, agrees price, gives deposit.

Car arrives, they organise times to hand over.

Dealer now says he cannot carry out the deal.

Now. There are two reason why.
a - The company themselves have decided to take no more cars in, in which case the customer should get his new car, regardless.

B - The finance have told them not to. In this case its tough.

OldmanMondeo · 03-03-2009 12:50pm

In fairness, while I do see the dealer point of view, everyone knows that car sales in Ireland has been fck for the last 9 months or so. I was told by a main dealer in April last year that they would not take any 05-06 trade ins. The dealer should have been aware of this and taken into consideration, therefore honour the deal.

However, if a liquidator has taken the company over, the OP 's father will be luckey to get his deposit back. If this is the case I would go down todaya dn get the money back.

Dealer reneges on a new car deal!

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