Difference between 6 and 7?

thomond2006

I know that 6 covers the blindslide and 7 the openside but what are the other differences between 6 and 7 in their functions/roles on the pitch?

Popey and Hooky both said Stephen Ferris was a 6, not a 7? Why is that??

Thanks.

Sparky14

No. 7 is usually a more mobile player seen as a link between the backs and forwards. Main jobs would be securing quick ball, stealing ball and high tackle count.

No. 6 is usually a more physical player, seen as an enforcer type player. Big tackles and ball carrying would be his main duties.

Quite a simplistic explanation, but thats basically it. Usually in South Africa and France the numbers are reversed, Betson wore 6 as does S. Burger. Ferris would be seen as too big and heavy to be a traditional openside.

leeroybrown

The fundamental difference in the type of athlete is caused by the blindside and openside positions you mention. If you're on the blindside you have less space to cover, you have less cover tacklers with you and you need to deal with the number eight off the scrum. This calls for size and strength. Conversely, if you're on the openside you've got much more ground to move into, you need to be mobile to get to the ball quickly, you've got most of the back line with you and you're less likely to be making big tackles off set pieces.

It's easy to see the disadvantage that Ferris' size would leave him at if he were required to play seven.

Edit: I'll add to avoid confusion that while the seven is less likely to be making big tackles off set pieces, their mobility will mean that they tackle a lot in open play.

The 7 is also there to slow the ball down and steal it at ruck time,alot of their play could be considered illegal but the best ones i.e McCaw are so good they make it so difficult for the ref to see it.

Some 7's have different attributes,for example before the six nations started there were some calls for jennings to starts ahead of wallace because he is an "out and out 7" this is in reference to him being more natural at slowing ball down and cheating etc.
Whereas Wallace might not be as good as Jennings at this but his all around game would be superior.

Keith Gleeson was also also an out and out 7 as is Martin Williams,whereas some would call Wallace more of an 8 than a 7.

thomond2006

Thanks lads. :):)

thomond2006

Who would be your Lions 6 and 7 btw?

Sparky14

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who would be your Lions 6 and 7 btw?

Would have to be Martyn Williams imo, though against South Africa the increased physicality of Wallace would be a good option.

Jones is likely to be blindside due to the fact that hes Welsh captain and has a big reputation, Ferris on current form will push him hard tho.

Martin Williams has been **** these six nations,he would have been the front runner before.

Many thought Powell was a cert but heaslip seems to have taken it from him,after Powell was so bad and one dimensional against France.

Ryan Jones is a shadow of himself and Ferris deserves 6 ahead of him.


Ferris,Heaslip and Wallace will all tour and I wouldnt be surprised If all 3 started tbh,maybe others will think thats very biased but for me its a real possibility.

Webbs

Charles Icy Seeker wrote: »

Martin Williams has been **** these six nations,he would have been the front runner before.
.

YOu must have been watching a different williams to most of us, he has been consistently Wales best backrow this 6N, he was excellent against France in that he was playing off the back foot yet still managed to cause turnovers, slow ball down and make a general nuisance of himself for the French. Without him Wales would have been exposed even further.

Webbs

Webbs wrote: »

YOu must have been watching a different williams to most of us, he has been consistently Wales best backrow this 6N, he was excellent against France in that he was playing off the back foot yet still managed to cause turnovers, slow ball down and make a general nuisance of himself for the French. Without him Wales would have been exposed even further.

Hes good,but hes not as good as he has been in the past.Even the wales fans have not been impressed with him,hes so good that if he recovers any of his form he will start but I wouldnt start him now.
Whatever about the French performance,this 6 nations hasnt been a vintage one for him imo.

I would probably agree that he has been their best backrower,but that says more about powell and Jones performances than his.

outwest

it all depends who wins the six nations. when ireland do win it will be an all irish backrow. one thing is for sure powell will be playing in red in the summer just not with the lions. jones and williams on bench with jones coverig the second row too

anonymous_joe

Charles Icy Seeker wrote: »

The 7 is also there to slow the ball down and steal it at ruck time,alot of their play could be considered illegal but the best ones i.e McCaw are so good they make it so difficult for the ref to see it.

Some 7's have different attributes,for example before the six nations started there were some calls for jennings to starts ahead of wallace because he is an "out and out 7" this is in reference to him being more natural at slowing ball down and cheating etc.
Whereas Wallace might not be as good as Jennings at this but his all around game would be superior.

Keith Gleeson was also also an out and out 7 as is Martin Williams,whereas some would call Wallace more of an 8 than a 7.

Great post there.

I still worry about Wallace at 7 if I'm honest. :pac:

[Jackass]

We don't really have an established out and out 7 at international level. I don't think Jennings or someone like O'Connor has been given enough of a chance at international level, but then again, Gleeson was, in my opinion, the finest Irish (qualified) 7 of his generation and got feck all caps.

The question about Wallace isn't if he'd be in the Lions backrow, it's where. He can play all 3, but his least natural would be at 7. I'd imagine Wallace will be at 6, with possibly Heaslip getting the 8 jersey which would mean a welsh backrow at 7, maybe Jones.

The future Irish 7 is Pollock in my opinion. We've some really good players coming through in the backrow though, always have, Heaslip at 8 is well established, but there's also Leamy who's still young, players like Ferris who's quality, Ronan at Munster is an out and out 7, O'Brien at Leinster plays 7 but I think he'll end up as a 6 but can play anywhere in the backrow simular to Wallace, Ryan can play backrow as well as second row...loads of really good backrow players coming through, not to mention the likes of Quinlan (surprised he's not in the 22, despite age), Wallace, Jennings etc. who are already available.

Sparky14

[Jackass] wrote: »

The question about Wallace isn't if he'd be in the Lions backrow, it's where. He can play all 3, but his least natural would be at 7. I'd imagine Wallace will be at 6, with possibly Heaslip getting the 8 jersey which would mean a welsh backrow at 7, maybe Jones.

Jones is even less of a 7 than Wallace is, can't see Wallace playing anywhere other than 7. There was a possibility of him maybe playing at 8 but with the emergence of Powell and the form of Heaslip he won't be considered in that position.

corny

Theres no way Ryan Jones should get near a test place. He'd be a liabilty in the tackle area given the likely size of the saffa's back row ball carriers. I'd have Haskell and Worsely ahead of him on current international form, not to mention Ferris who really should start. Martyn Williams will start at 7 and i can see Wallace taking the 8 jersey from Heaslip and Powell. Wallace is too great an asset to leave on the bench.

Nukem

No.7 needs a good rugby mind and know when to kill ball and be ruthless in slowing the game down, where IMO the No.6 is a sledge hammer who just causes havoc and does a good deal of donkey work.

Wallace is an immense No.7 but not a typical ground hog and nor does he slow ball down. Martyn Williams on form is probably the best in NH IMO but when you look at the Munster backrow its a very good mix of what an ideal backrow needs and if the Lions learned from that - it would be cool.

Ferris, Haskell, Jones and Wallace would be my ideal backrow on the Lions tour. Ferris and Jones can both play second row, as well and Wallace and Haskell can play in most backrow positions.

nacho libre

Worsley definitely merits Lions selection based on his last two performances against Ireland and Wales. His tackling against Wales was superb. The likes of Roberts and Powell were stopped in their tracks by him. Should Ferris get injured, Worsely is definitely the man you need to spring from the bench to try and the stifle the powerhouse African backrow. I'd pick Wallace at number seven ahead of Williams. Heaslip deserves the number eight spot as he has been the best number eight in the six nations so far. Although, Harinordoquy was brilliant against Wales. Can he be as good against England? I can't wait to find out.

Webbs

nacho libre wrote: »

Worsley definitely merits Lions selection based on his last two performances against Ireland and Wales. His tackling against Wales was superb. The likes of Roberts and Powell were stopped in their tracks by him. Should Ferris get injured, Worsely is definitely the man you need to spring from the bench to try and the stifle the powerhouse African backrow. I'd pick Wallace at number seven ahead of Williams. Heaslip deserves the number eight spot as he has been the best number eight in the six nations so far. Although, Harinordoquy was brilliant against Wales. Can he be as good against England? I can't wait to find out.

Worsley is nowhere near a Lions spot, he has been given one job and to be fair he has carried it out well in that he has been given a target to stop and thats it. He has no link game, is poor with ball in hand and is no ball carrier. If the Lions have any ambition to try and win games then Worsley shouldnt even make the touring party. I would prefer Strokosch for Scotland over Worsley.
The backrow combination will be one decided on by the style of rugby the Lions want to play, open and Williams will play, a more structured take them on up front then Wallace will play.

nacho libre

Webbs wrote: »

Worsley is nowhere near a Lions spot, he has been given one job and to be fair he has carried it out well in that he has been given a target to stop and thats it. He has no link game, is poor with ball in hand and is no ball carrier. If the Lions have any ambition to try and win games then Worsley shouldnt even make the touring party. I would prefer Strokosch for Scotland over Worsley.
The backrow combination will be one decided on by the style of rugby the Lions want to play, open and Williams will play, a more structured take them on up front then Wallace will play.

True he is one dimensional. Strokosch is a better all round player than Worsley but he is not as effective a tackler as Worsley in my opinion.
So I still think Worsley deserves a place in the squad based on that ability alone. It's all very well talking about dynamic play in the loose, which Worsley won't give you, but you are unlikely to win a game if the opposing backrow is dominant, so the lions forwards will have very little go forward ball. I would still favour Wallace over Williams based on how physicial the South Africans are. Although, Williams is better scrapper and more capable of nicking ball at the breakdown

outwest

i hate to say this i really do but. but wallace might not staRT FOR THE LIONS cause marty is plying some good stuff and by wallace normally high standards as not played better then the other backrows in contention for lions starter spots. that said he def make the match 22 and wud be a hell of a impact sub at half time or after 50 mins.

i cant beleive worsley name has been mentioned :eek:

only way worsley will get to south africa is if he goes as a supporter or a maor uisce :D