Smoking in front of the Newman Building

spudington16

Hey,

there are numerous signs in front of the Newman (Arts) Building - the enclosed area at the top of the steps - saying it is illegal to smoke in that area, yet it is always thronged with smokers. Is it actually illegal, in which case why do the college authorities not stop people smoking there? Surely this contravenes the smoking ban?

P_1

Is it illegal though? AFAIK a smoking area can at most have 3 walls and a roof or 4 walls and no roof. As the area outside Newman has 3 walls and a roof that would seem to suggest that smoking is ok there.

Also noticed recently that the holes in the bins where you're meant to put your cigarette butt have been covered over. WTF is the point in doing that?

spudington16

It's kinda ambiguous... According to citizensinformation.ie outdoor smoking areas are defined as "an outdoor place or premises that is covered by a roof, so long as not more than 50% of the perimeter (outside) is covered by a wall, windows, gate or similar." Well if it's legal to smoke there, UCD Services should remove the half dozen or so signs claiming it's illegal, and provide proper bins for disposing of butts, but if it is in fact illegal then they should properly enforce it.

Raphael

Afaik it's legal to smoke there, however they tried to make it a no-smoking area so that everyone coming into or leaving the building wouldn't need to walk through a cloud of smoke. However, as it's been the place everyone smokes for years, People are just ignoring it.

I imagine they closed the bits of bins over for the same reason they put up "no smoking" signs - to stop people smoking there.

RandolphEsq

Raphael wrote: »

Afaik it's legal to smoke there, however they tried to make it a no-smoking area so that everyone coming into or leaving the building wouldn't need to walk through a cloud of smoke. However, as it's been the place everyone smokes for years, People are just ignoring it.

I imagine they closed the bits of bins over for the same reason they put up "no smoking" signs - to stop people smoking there.

Who is this 'they' everybody keeps referring to?

/looks around fearfully

Red Alert

Smokers as usual making life difficult for the rest of us... :rolleyes:

Presumably then I can ignore the Ladies/Gents signs on the jacks too?

scop

It is legal to smoke there; nothing they can do about that. They just don't want people to smoke there.

Smokers are not just being annoying here. There really is no alternative smoking spot (smokers are human too, and giving them some shelter is surely right). Fact is barring constant removal the area will remain, as it always has been, the smoking area. **** the wall is called the Smoking Wall/Department of Lung Cancer etc. Lecturers/staff/students alike ignore it because it is plain silly.

We gave you the entire INSIDE...now you want the OUTSIDE too!

Zounds

BrightEyes wrote: »

Who is this 'they' everybody keeps referring to?

/looks around fearfully

Services.

Tea-a-Maria

Isn't that why they point those ugly and pointless 'tables' along our beautiful concourse?:pac:

muffinman

scop wrote: »

nothing they can do about that.

:rolleyes:

graduate

Presumably then I can ignore the Ladies/Gents signs on the jacks too?

Not only that but you can have a slosh up against the window of the Arts cafe, if you are smoker then you can do what you like.

We should follow the example of some international campuses and require the bowsies to go to the Stillorgan road flyover.

Red Alert

scop wrote: »

We gave you the entire INSIDE...now you want the OUTSIDE too!

No, just move away from the doors - how about that sheltered place under the library or somewhere.

boneless

I am not 100% sure on this but will try to find out more; I have heard in the distant past (that's anything over two weeks for me) that smoking may not be permitted within a certain distance to the entrance of a work area. This is covered by Health and Safety legislation I think... Newman Building is (allegedly) a workspace.

spudington16

Ok, I think this is relevant:

Citizens' Information website wrote:

Remember, it is an offence to smoke in an area that has been designated 'non-smoking'.

If that applies to outside areas - such as the entrance to a building - then surely smoking outside the Newman is against the ban?

Riamfada

Legal or illegal any instution or business can restrict smoking from any areas of its property where it sees fit. (like a smoking section in the car park of a factory). So it dosnt matter how many meters you are from the door to any buidling as long as you are on campus property you cannot smoke where they tell you cannot.I think the problem with UCD is that they did not provide a viable winter alternative for people to use or possibly having smoking sections rather than non-smoking signs. Also student/staff cards should be taken by the head of Newman Services.


G

Tayto2000

Grimes wrote: »

Legal or illegal any instution or business can restrict smoking from any areas of its property where it sees fit. (like a smoking section in the car park of a factory). So it dosnt matter how many meters you are from the door to any buidling as long as you are on campus property you cannot smoke where they tell you cannot.I think the problem with UCD is that they did not provide a viable winter alternative for people to use or possibly having smoking sections rather than non-smoking signs. Also student/staff cards should be taken by the head of Newman Services.


G

Yup, true. I think the 'official' smoking area was meant to be the area down beside the steps where the bins and benches are, but of course no one ever uses that space except in summer because there's no shelter... There's a general lack of enforcement of the smoking areas around campus as well which doesn't help.

One thing I've never got, is what's with the littering of butss? All the smokers I know would never think of throwing a plastic wrapper or drink can on the ground but for some reason fag butts are an exception... Having to wade through the carpet that accumulates by lunchtime is disgusting.

crashers

Tayto2000 wrote: »

One thing I've never got, is what's with the littering of butss? All the smokers I know would never think of throwing a plastic wrapper or drink can on the ground but for some reason fag butts are an exception... Having to wade through the carpet that accumulates by lunchtime is disgusting.

i second that, it really is disgusting..

micf

A weedy, spotty and uncaring individual sat beside me at the wall at the Arts Cafe and proceeded to blow his smoke right in my face... disgusting.

Bubs101

Tayto2000 wrote: »

One thing I've never got, is what's with the littering of butss? All the smokers I know would never think of throwing a plastic wrapper or drink can on the ground but for some reason fag butts are an exception... Having to wade through the carpet that accumulates by lunchtime is disgusting.

Having to walk on the end of cigarrettes is disgusting?? How so.

Tchaikovsky

BrightEyes wrote: »

Who is this 'they' everybody keeps referring to?

/looks around fearfully

The Stasi.
Surely the architecture makes it clear that we're in 1980s East Berlin?

vote4pedro

Red Alert wrote: »

No, just move away from the doors - how about that sheltered place under the library or somewhere.

How could it possibly affect you?

I've never smoked, yet often hang out around there chatting with my non-smoking friends. If there's a big pile of smokers beside us we move a couple of metres away and surprise, surprise problem solved. If you don't congregate there then I refuse to believe anyone could be bothered by the smoke in an outdoor area as they walk in and out of a building, especially when the doors are a few metres away from the wall most smokers sit on.

Are you really so miserable, or such a dweeb, that you have to moan about something that doesn't cause anyone any problems?

"But what if I get blinded by the smoke walking up the stairs, fall and split my head open causing permanent brain damage...."

Tayto2000

vote4pedro wrote: »

How could it possibly affect you?

I've never smoked, yet often hang out around there chatting with my non-smoking friends. If there's a big pile of smokers beside us we move a couple of metres away and surprise, surprise problem solved. If you don't congregate there then I refuse to believe anyone could be bothered by the smoke in an outdoor area as they walk in and out of a building, especially when the doors are a few metres away from the wall most smokers sit on.

Are you really so miserable, or such a dweeb, that you have to moan about something that doesn't cause anyone any problems?

"But what if I get blinded by the smoke walking up the stairs, fall and split my head open causing permanent brain damage...."

Bullsh1t. What you're saying is "I don't mind breathing in a bit of smoke, why do you?" - Go and read up on the effects of second hand smoke - the smoking ban isn't arbitrary.

vote4pedro

I'm fully aware of the dangers of second hand smoke, and also the dangers of standing several metres away from someone outside in a well ventilated area (too well ventilated, UCD must be the windiest place on earth). I'm just saying don't be so precious, you're not going to cark it because the bloke 5metres away is having a fag.

Red Alert

vote4pedro wrote: »

I'm fully aware of the dangers of second hand smoke, and also the dangers of standing several metres away from someone outside in a well ventilated area (too well ventilated, UCD must be the windiest place on earth). I'm just saying don't be so precious, you're not going to cark it because the bloke 5metres away is having a fag.

Because it's unplesant - would you willingly walk beside an open sewer, no you'd walk across the street. Why the hell do we essentially allow smokers to inflict their filthy habit on the rest of us just because 'they can'?

33% God

Red Alert wrote: »

Because it's unplesant - would you willingly walk beside an open sewer, no you'd walk across the street. Why the hell do we essentially allow smokers to inflict their filthy habit on the rest of us just because 'they can'?

I always think the same about those horrible people who wear ugg boots and squelch their way around campus but my plan to run for president on a "Cull the D4s" platform didn't go over so well.


"Oh no, I have to walk within meters of smokers for a few seconds before the door closes behind me, waaaaa"

Bubs101

Red Alert wrote: »

Because it's unplesant - would you willingly walk beside an open sewer, no you'd walk across the street. Why the hell do we essentially allow smokers to inflict their filthy habit on the rest of us just because 'they can'?

If you feel that strongly about it go out the other door. As for "filthy habit", get over yourself

scop

Red Alert wrote: »

Because it's unplesant - would you willingly walk beside an open sewer, no you'd walk across the street. Why the hell do we essentially allow smokers to inflict their filthy habit on the rest of us just because 'they can'?

You don't own outside.

Tayto2000

Once again, nothing from the smoking side except rubbish along the lines of 'suck it up, u are teh wusses'. That's not an argument. It comes down to choice - you choose to smoke, that's fine (although stupid), I don't and don't want to be forced to breath fag smoke. An neither I suspect do a large number of people in Arts.

Smoke produced by the 100+ people who gather there is significant, we're not talking about a few people here or a little bit of smoke. It also stinks, aside from the well documented health effects. (It may surprise you to know that some in UCD still possess a sense of smell, smoke from the front can be smelt up as far as the top floor of D block.)

This is aside from the littering issue, which should be handled separately. I don't like walking on a carpet of sucked-on bits of plastic impregnated with nerve toxin for the same reason I find littered chewing gum and rubbers distasteful. It's especially ugly at the front entrance to what should be a prestige building on campus.

Comes down to lack of facilities really. Where is the covered smoking shelter with bins away from the doors? There's no such facility anywhere on campus, so smokers will continue to gather at the doors of all the buildings. The front of the main library, Health Sciences, Science, Ag... nowhere has the issue been tackled. The pathetic 'mushrooms' under the walkway are a total waste of time and money, they didn't even bother putting bins with them.

vote4pedro

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Once again, nothing from the smoking side except rubbish along the lines of 'suck it up, u are teh wusses'. That's not an argument. It comes down to choice - you choose to smoke, that's fine (although stupid), I don't and don't want to be forced to breath fag smoke. An neither I suspect do a large number of people in Arts.

I don't smoke and so am not part of a "smoking side". I favour common sense.

Smoke produced by the 100+ people who gather there is significant, we're not talking about a few people here or a little bit of smoke. It also stinks, aside from the well documented health effects. (It may surprise you to know that some in UCD still possess a sense of smell, smoke from the front can be smelt up as far as the top floor of D block.)

100+? Hmm, but im not good at judging crowds so I'll keep schtum. Can it really be smelt as far away as there, I find that utterly amazing and have never experienced it before. And even then, is it really so strong a smell up there that it causes you any sort of bother? It seems like your being more than a little overly pernicious, average Joe Student I guarantee you is not wretching with the smell floors above.

This is aside from the littering issue, which should be handled separately. I don't like walking on a carpet of sucked-on bits of plastic impregnated with nerve toxin for the same reason I find littered chewing gum and rubbers distasteful. It's especially ugly at the front entrance to what should be a prestige building on campus.

"sucked on bits of plastic impregnated with nerve toxin", don't think you're oversensationalising the subject a smidge?? I've seen piss splashbacked off the urinal before, and there's a bit of a manky waft off the jacks. Why don't you put that in to sensationalised language too?

Tayto2000

vote4pedro wrote: »

I don't smoke and so am not part of a "smoking side". I favour common sense.

Which is ignoring it?

vote4pedro wrote: »

100+? Hmm, but im not good at judging crowds so I'll keep schtum. Can it really be smelt as far away as there, I find that utterly amazing and have never experienced it before. And even then, is it really so strong a smell up there that it causes you any sort of bother? It seems like your being more than a little overly pernicious, average Joe Student I guarantee you is not wretching with the smell floors above.

Count em up at lunch some time. No one is retching or gagging admittedly, my point is, it's avoidable. What do you think of Hilpers having to close their doors at breaks to keep the smoke out?

vote4pedro wrote: »

"sucked on bits of plastic impregnated with nerve toxin", don't think you're oversensationalising the subject a smidge?? I've seen piss splashbacked off the urinal before, and there's a bit of a manky waft off the jacks. Why don't you put that in to sensationalised language too?

Just stating plain fact. Butts are made of tow acetate, a plastic, while nicotine is a nerve toxin (hence it's calming effect). The smell out of the jacks is due to a basic human requirement to eliminate waste, common to us all. The smell of smoke is from a bunch of people who are addicted to sucking on burning leaves and choose to do so next to the front entrance. There's a difference.

scop

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Count em up at lunch some time. No one is retching or gagging admittedly, my point is, it's avoidable. What do you think of Hilpers having to close their doors at breaks to keep the smoke out?

It's to keep out the cold (obviously). On warm days the doors stay open.

And 100 people...:rolleyes:

noodler

Thank god for the smkoing ban.

Red Alert

Yeah you used to pretty much gag after just walking though the arts block at one time.

Riamfada

Red Alert wrote: »

Yeah you used to pretty much gag after just walking though the arts block at one time.

I think that was most places in the country at one point. No one is contesting the relevance of the smoking ban but the yearly first year pissing and moaning post about having to look at someone smoking 4 or 5 meters away from them or sitting in the one smoking section in the entire campus and moaning about it is getting rather tiresome at this stage.

Also whoever said that the Arts Cafe door are closed because of the 100 smokers outside .... pure lol

Peleus

Tayto2000 wrote: »

Bullsh1t. What you're saying is "I don't mind breathing in a bit of smoke, why do you?" - Go and read up on the effects of second hand smoke - the smoking ban isn't arbitrary.

oh come on, walking through a bit of smoke is not gonna kill you. You'd probably do more damage to yourself walking through town.

40 years ago, there'd probably be people smoking in lectures. 5 years ago people could smoke in pubs and clubs. Now smokers can't smoke outside buildings? Give me a break. It's a bit of tobacco smoke, get over yourselves...

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Tayto2000 wrote: »

the smoking ban isn't arbitrary.

Well actually it kind of is. There are things that are more dangerous and kill more people and yet are still legal.

Red Alert

So basically we should allow people to piss on the ground outside the buildings given the rationale that you can just step over it?

Riamfada

Red Alert wrote: »

So basically we should allow people to piss on the ground outside the buildings given the rationale that you can just step over it?

RA your know yourself that saying something like that only confirms that you have no founded points to make . If you want to piss on the ground go ahead. If I dont like it Ill just go in the door where no one pisses


Can I ask, have you the same issue with smoke when walking into the student bar? I am wondering because you'd think by this thread that smoking only happens at the arts block and no where else in the country.

spudington16

Grimes wrote: »

I think that was most places in the country at one point. No one is contesting the relevance of the smoking ban but the yearly first year pissing and moaning post about having to look at someone smoking 4 or 5 meters away from them or sitting in the one smoking section in the entire campus and moaning about it is getting rather tiresome at this stage.

The crux of the matter is that smoking isn't just a habit that impacts on the smoker; it is well documented that second-hand smoke is dangerous to those in the vicinity of smokers. This thread isn't "pissing and moaning" about having to look at smokers sitting smoking in a designated area; it's about having to walk through the smoke of people who are flaunting the ban by smoking in a designated non-smoking area which is the main entrance to one of the busiest buildings on campus.

Red Alert

The student bar outside is not a designated no-smoking area. My problem is with people who decide that they'll selectively ignore no-smoking signs then complaining when others pull them up on it.

Tayto2000

Grimes wrote: »

RA your know yourself that saying something like that only confirms that you have no founded points to make . If you want to piss on the ground go ahead. If I dont like it Ill just go in the door where no one pisses

I don't think it's RA who has no point to make, so far the best argument for smoking at Arts has been 'get over it'. Wow, outstanding logic there.

Red Alert was being a little coy there as well, a more accurate analogy would be to make sure it's not possible to go in through either of the main front doors without getting sprayed with piss. 'Ah, sure it's only a bit of piss, it won't kill you!'

100 people at the front of Arts at peak times is unrealistic? I invite you to do a headcount count during one of the daily peak times, say 11am during first semester. Given that the theatres alone hold a bit less than 2000, and not including the classrooms upstairs or any staff members or visitors in the building, 100 over the course of the break is a relatively small number.

Grimes wrote: »

Can I ask, have you the same issue with smoke when walking into the student bar? I am wondering because you'd think by this thread that smoking only happens at the arts block and no where else in the country.

No. The area at the bar is not enclosed and doesn't trap smoke in the same way the front of Arts does. Smokers at the bar do not go all at once en masse and create clouds of smoke which blow back into the building and cause the doors to be locked. Nor is it strictly necessary to go into the bar to go to class or study. And of course, the area at the bar is a designated smoking area with proper cover and bins.

fillefatale

I'm not a frequent smoker but before I did I never had any problem with people smoking in that area, they usually sit on the walls rather than blowing smoke in your face as you walk in...

HappyCrackHead

There are 5 seperate entrances to the Arts building, smokers tend to congregate mostly around two of these, outside the arts cafe. if you object to smokers near the entrance use one of the others.

I've been in ucd for 5 years, i have always smoked at the wall, i've always been courteous not to blow smoke in peoples faces etc., to smoke around kids or people who are astmatics or have respitory problems.

HOWEVER. If i am smoking a cigarette in my usual spot and someone chooses to sit next to me and then complains about my smoking... well they have words for people like that. my personal favourite is R-tard.

You can enjoy all the clean air once you get inside or 2 feet away from the area.

Smokers in my experience are happier than non-smokers. Maybe those of you moaning should try it and see the other perspective.

(the wonderful self defeating argument)

Red Alert

HappyCrackHead wrote: »

Smokers in my experience are happier than non-smokers. Maybe those of you moaning should try it and see the other perspective.

(the wonderful self defeating argument)

Really? They all seem to complain a lot.