"As a parent..." - magic words?

cuckoo

Listening to all the recession talk a lot of the texts into radio stations have the "as a parent" words thrown into them.

That phrase also pops up when people are having a rant about violence on tv and lads magazines in the shops.

I'm not a parent, and I have nothing against children or those that parent them - maybe i'm just not understanding the sense of identity that some parents feel as parents.

But....a lot of the time it feels like they're throwing a big "BABY ON BOARD" sticker in front of their opinion and expecting it to be respected more.

There are child rearing specific issues that I would lend more weight to a parent's opinion, but when it comes to bank recapitalisation I don't care if someone has bred or not.

Yes, life is a little financially pinched at the moment, but I am tired of listening to people justifying their complaints about having less income by the fact that they're 'parents'. I have a fondness for belgian chocolates and pearls that i am unable to indulge these days, but i'm not starting my complaints with "as a wearer of pearls...". I feel confident that people get a lot more pleasure from raising their children than i do from pretty pearls - so why are the magic words "as a parent" used most to complain about things?

hamsterboy

As Bill Bailey said, you can replace the words "Speaking as a parent" with "Speaking out of my arse"

HB

Robbo

"I'm a mother Joe..." can be used as a legitimate introduction to any thought you may have from conscription to the mandatory castration of parking offenders.

CeilingCat

cuckoo wrote: »

Yes, life is a little financially pinched at the moment, but I am tired of listening to people justifying their complaints about having less income by the fact that they're 'parents'. I have a fondness for belgian chocolates and pearls that i am unable to indulge these days, but i'm not starting my complaints with "as a wearer of pearls...". I feel confident that people get a lot more pleasure from raising their children than i do from pretty pearls - so why are the magic words "as a parent" used most to complain about things?

I hear ya... just recently I tried to explein to my son that due to the current financial climate we would have to forego indulgences like food, clothing, heat etc. He wasn't having any of it.

Kids these days....

Dudess

Ah, in fairness, when it comes to the economy, it's understandable for parents to make a point of mentioning their children, as this is probably their biggest worry... but in situations where it's not relevant, it's as annoying as all the usual "you haven't got kids - you wouldn't understand" patronising, dismissive crap.

jim o doom

Good mate of mine has a sister who claims "It's OK to be a hypocrite if you are a parent"..


Apparently she was a bit of a "wild child" for a good many years before settling down and having kids..


Totally flips the lid if my mate plays metal for the girls (who loved it as babies) or even tries to teach 'em how to juggle - because they might end up hanging out with hippies (oh NO not the hippies!.. cartman would be thrilled ).


If it was my own sister I would tell her how stupid I thought she was being and there's no good reason to be a hypocrite. It's funny though.. and another parent friend of ours; upon hearing the "it's ok as a parent to be a hypoctrite" statement.. agreed. *sigh* we're fecked as a species really, arn't we..

stovelid

cuckoo wrote: »

Listening to all the recession talk a lot of the texts into radio stations have the "as a parent" words thrown into them.

That phrase also pops up when people are having a rant about violence on tv and lads magazines in the shops.

I'm not a parent, and I have nothing against children or those that parent them - maybe i'm just not understanding the sense of identity that some parents feel as parents.

But....a lot of the time it feels like they're throwing a big "BABY ON BOARD" sticker in front of their opinion and expecting it to be respected more.

There are child rearing specific issues that I would lend more weight to a parent's opinion, but when it comes to bank recapitalisation I don't care if someone has bred or not.

Yes, life is a little financially pinched at the moment, but I am tired of listening to people justifying their complaints about having less income by the fact that they're 'parents'. I have a fondness for belgian chocolates and pearls that i am unable to indulge these days, but i'm not starting my complaints with "as a wearer of pearls...". I feel confident that people get a lot more pleasure from raising their children than i do from pretty pearls - so why are the magic words "as a parent" used most to complain about things?

As a parent, I would tend to disagree.

Dudess

Robbo wrote: »

"I'm a mother Joe..." can be used as a legitimate introduction to any thought you may have from conscription to the mandatory castration of parking offenders.

How effective is "Joe, I'm a father"?

Robbo

Dudess wrote: »

How effective is "Joe, I'm a father"?

It's one notch below "I've been a taximan 82 years Joe and..." and well below mothers.

There's a Liveline pyramid of credibility vaguely in proportion with the demographics of the listenership.

jim o doom

Robbo wrote: »

There's a Liveline pyramid of credibility vaguely in proportion with the demographics of the listenership.

lol! - I'm interested in who you think falls to the lowest end of the scale.. do politicians ever ring that show?

stovelid

Robbo wrote: »

There's a Liveline pyramid of credibility vaguely in proportion with the demographics of the listenership.

Exactly. Outraged mother is the one that trumps all.

Dudess

:D:D

Malari

stovelid wrote: »

Exactly. Outraged mother is the one that trumps all.

Aren't we forgetting Outraged OAPs?

claiva

Father of 3 here........
When you have kids, everything changes. Especially your perspective on what is important and what isn't. You stop putting yourself first. Which is VERY hard for singletons to grasp.

I think when people use that term they mean that the point they are making is not to highlight an issue where they personally have a problem longterm, but to highlight that in the longterm we should ALL stand up for whats right for the sake of the next generation who obviously cannot do it themselves yet.

you never hear the tracksuit wearing benefit fraudsters from using the "as a parent" slogan..........
Why - coz they don't give a fcuk, if they did, they wouldn't feed their kids coke and crisps for breakfast !!!

A lot of folk in this country are oblivious to the injustices in our little democracy.....but hey, we voted for these clowns, headed by King Clowen himself !!!!:eek::eek:
Rant over.....

cuckoo

stovelid wrote: »

Exactly. Outraged mother is the one that trumps all.

Trumped by 'outraged mother complaining about child's teacher'.

I perhaps didn't explain myself fully in my original post, i do understand that children require more feeding, watering and worry than my beloved flock of houseplants. And, I do understand when parents express worries about specific child related issues: third level fees, their children finding jobs, etc.... It's the general pronouncements on morality, and the sense of entitlement that the 'but...i'm a parent!' often convey that annoy me.

PeakOutput

claiva wrote: »

I think when people use that term they mean that the point they are making is not to highlight an issue where they personally have a problem longterm, but to highlight that in the longterm we should ALL stand up for whats right for the sake of the next generation who obviously cannot do it themselves yet.

i think the point was its ok to preface your argument with this line if the argument is about kids/child benefit/ paedophiles/ anything connected to children

but when you say something along the lines off 'as a parent i think its a disgrace that the golden circle got offered these free loans' it should automatically cut you out of the conversation / shut off you phone if your live on liveline / eject you from your seat onto your arse as its stupid and irrelevant in the extreme

finally students are the least important opinions on liveline

any students listen to liveline? i doubt it

cuckoo

claiva wrote: »

Father of 3 here........
When you have kids, everything changes. Especially your perspective on what is important and what isn't. You stop putting yourself first. Which is VERY hard for singletons to grasp.

Could having kids also mean that it's difficult for you to understand my singleton perspective? It's wonderful that your children are the centre of your world, and I hope you're enjoying being a parent, but I don't think it makes your differing perspective any more valid than a singleton's.

People without children are also capable of putting other people first, thankfully, otherwise our society would be in an even worse state.

PeakOutput

cuckoo wrote: »

It's the general pronouncements on morality, and the sense of entitlement that the 'but...i'm a parent!' often convey that annoy me.

'ye but im a parent joe thats not much use to me'

i can actually hear the voice saying the above in my head

nobodythere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caxJyw89kKg

3:40

Don't usually think he's funny but I really like his new stuff

Dudess

claiva wrote: »

Father of 3 here........

LOL

When you have kids, everything changes. Especially your perspective on what is important and what isn't. You stop putting yourself first. Which is VERY hard for singletons to grasp.

No it isn't - don't be so patronising. Anyone with half a brain cell will very easily grasp that you stop putting yourself first when you have children - it's probably one of the reasons some people don't want to have children.
And I presume by "singleton" you mean non parent? I'm not a singleton and some single people have children.

I think when people use that term they mean that the point they are making is not to highlight an issue where they personally have a problem longterm, but to highlight that in the longterm we should ALL stand up for whats right for the sake of the next generation who obviously cannot do it themselves yet.

As in, "won't somebody please think of the children?"

stovelid

cuckoo wrote: »

It's the general pronouncements on morality, and the sense of entitlement that the 'but...i'm a parent!' often convey that annoy me.

People with kids probably do have more to fear in this kind of climate than those who don't.

That said, I also really dislike it when i'm a parent is used to convey some sort of gravitas, or an elevated place in the recessionary pecking order.

Dudess

stovelid wrote: »

People with kids probably do have more to fear in this kind of climate than those who don't.

Absolutely. As a non-parent (;):D) I consider myself one of the lucky ones that there are no small people depending on me should I lose my job (quite possible).

stovelid

Dudess wrote: »

I consider myself one of the lucky ones that there are no small people depending on me should I lose my job (quite possible).

Nothing a bit of tweaking to our antiquated child-labour laws wouldn't correct.

00112984

My sister does this. Not even just with the recession but with every argument.

Me: "God, I'm manic in work lately. Am really tired"
Her: "You don't know what tired is until you have a toddler and a 7 month old baby"
Me: "Maybe keep your legs closed in future if they're that much of a burden?"

I need to form a good debate on people having children causing a lot of this economic trouble. I'm married and don't have kids (by choice- getting knocked up was never my main "ambition" in life), I work and pay taxes. I didn't get a free college education. A huge percentage of the tax I pay goes on schools. I have my own arrangements made for my retirement so I'm not depending on the next generation to keep me in my old age. I don't live in council housing or collect social welfare for the many, many crotchfruit I could have produced by now.

Child benefit should be means tested for everyone and should be cut off after X amount of kids. I do maintain that every is entitled to have as many children as they want as long as they have the ability to pay for them themselves and don't rely on state handouts.

Not all but some people seem to think that reproducing is some form of an achievement. Fertilising and egg/giving birth is not an achievement but raising happy, well-adjusted children is. Just don't expect everyone else to foot the bill.

Dudess

00112984 wrote: »

Her: "You don't know what tired is until you have a toddler and a 7 month old baby"

My friend's always saying that too - yeah, I know it's extremely hard, that's why I don't want to have any (now or in the very near future anyway).

stovelid

00112984 wrote: »

Her: "You don't know what tired is until you have a toddler and a 7 month old baby"
.

Well actually, you don't.

But that still doesn't mean that parents should assume that anybody else is interested in hearing about it all the time either.

Piste

There are plenty of ways to be tired other than having kids. Try telling someone who's been awake for 48 hours straight and have been windsurfing and running marathons while saving puppies from burning buildings that they "don't know what tired is" and see where it gets you!

Dudess

I will admit "As a parent, I..." while annoying is absolute poetry in motion compared to "DS, DH, DD". If you use those abbreviations, you are officially a moron.

stovelid

Dudess wrote: »

I will admit "As a parent, I..." while annoying is absolute poetry in motion compared to "DS, DH, DD". If you use those abbreviations, you are officially a moron.

Darling Son; Darling Daughter; Darling Hermaphrodite, right?

:pac:

PeakOutput

Dudess wrote: »

"DS, DH, DD". I

do they really stand for what stovelid says they do?

i have never heard of people using them before but i cant wait to laugh in their face when they do

Dudess

PeakOutput wrote: »

do they really stand for what stovelid says they do?

Almost ("dear husband" being the last one, as you probably guessed). They're more written than said (well I'm hoping nobody would actually say them). I've seen them a fair bit on Boards.

Redpunto

cuckoo if it annoys ya that much you should really stop listening to Joe Duffy:D there do be some radio stations that play music,,,,,, some that even play good music

Redpunto

Redpunto wrote: »

cuckoo if it annoys ya that much you should really stop listening to Joe Duffy:D there do be some radio stations that play music,,,,,, some that even play good music

In between the ads?

johnnyskeleton

stovelid wrote: »

People with kids probably do have more to fear in this kind of climate than those who don't.

That said, I also really dislike it when i'm a parent is used to convey some sort of gravitas, or an elevated place in the recessionary pecking order.

Indeed, what I'd really like to hear them say is "I'm a parent, and I'd like to go on the record and apologise to my kids and to all the children of Ireland because I was greedy in thinking that I could own 4 houses, take 3 foreign holidays a year and buy a new car every other year. Now, when I retire, I will need my kids to look after me financially, am I'm really sorry that I destroyed your future and have committed you all to a life of penury and high taxes."
Instead, what we hear between the lines is "When I was living it large I didn't care about anyone else, now that I'm unemployed I want someone to look after me and, incidentally, my kids."

Capt'n Midnight

you could tell people that time in the presence of young children may affect your opinions.

remind them that in the past primary school teachers could not go on juries here because their judgement would be impaired
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56545752

JC 2K3

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

Not that there aren't intelligent parents on boards, just that those who are don't feel the need to include the "As a parent..." part.

Dudess

cuckoo wrote: »

People without children are also capable of putting other people first, thankfully, otherwise our society would be in an even worse state.

Absolutely. Look at those who are full-time carers for relatives (not children). And those who are like surrogate parents to younger siblings.

And look at those who work as care assistants, home helps, various types of nurses - these are vocations. They ain't in it for the money.

allabouteve

Dudess wrote: »

Absolutely. Look at those who are full-time carers for relatives (not children). And those who are like surrogate parents to younger siblings.

And look at those who work as care assistants, home helps, various types of nurses - these are vocations. They ain't in it for the money.

Teachers, child care workers, nursery nurses... not getting rich, but in it for the kids.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

Not that there aren't intelligent parents on boards, just that those who are don't feel the need to include the "As a parent..." part.

The worst kind of idiot seems to think the minute they whelp, they have some sort of extra insight or wisdom as a result.

Eh, no. You've just thought about someone other than yourself for the first time (probably), so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

00112984

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

It's a bit like "I'm not a racist but..."
May as well just ignore everything written after that as, whatever the debate, the OP will constantly remind you that they're NOT racist and even have black people living on their street but not liking all Polish people isn't racist.

stovelid

allabouteve wrote: »

so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

wtf?

embee

Cuckoo,

Everyone on the planet who is now a parent was, at some stage in their lives, not one. Do you think that all parents somehow forget their lives as "singletons" or childless people on their baby is born?

I remember it well, it was only 3 years ago after all. I remember what it was like before I had a child.... Being a parent changes your priorities and what you worry about, but you don't develop amnesia for the many, many years you lived before your child/children were born.

Dudess

I don't think cuckoo's disputing that, embee. I think she's saying though that some people do appear to develop amnesia in relation to life before parenthood - I think that's what she means anyway.

Chinafoot

jim o doom wrote: »

Good mate of mine has a sister who claims "It's OK to be a hypocrite if you are a parent"..


Apparently she was a bit of a "wild child" for a good many years before settling down and having kids..

Of course people are hypocritical when they have kids. I'd imagine most people want the best for their kids and as such would rather they stayed away from things like drugs and drink (until they're old enough anyway). My sister was also a "wild child" before she had her daughter, does that mean she'd be happy for her to be out at all hours up to all sorts? Of course not.

Dudess wrote: »

but in situations where it's not relevant, it's as annoying as all the usual "you haven't got kids - you wouldn't understand" patronising, dismissive crap.

I'd tend to agree with them. I can't possibly imagine what its like to have kids. I'm aware that it's difficult but I don't know just how hard it is. How could I? I think rolling your eyes and saying "yeah..I know" is far more dismissve tbh.

Dudess wrote: »

claiva wrote:

Father of 3 here........

LOL

Seriously? For some who is accusing others of being patronising I find your attitude here to be out of order. The poster is merely letting people know where he is coming from in his post.

Dudess wrote: »

No it isn't - don't be so patronising. Anyone with half a brain cell will very easily grasp that you stop putting yourself first when you have children - it's probably one of the reasons some people don't want to have children.

Yeah anyone with half a brain cell probably could grasp the concept...doesn't necessarily mean that those without children will fully understand the extent to which this actually happens.

Dudess wrote: »

I will admit "As a parent, I..." while annoying is absolute poetry in motion compared to "DS, DH, DD". If you use those abbreviations, you are officially a moron.

Honestly, that's really not necessary or welcome.


Guys this thread isn't going to be a free for all on parent bashing. If you would like somewhere to do that may I suggest you head on over to the Forums forum and request your own little area for that?

embee

Dudess wrote: »

I don't think cuckoo's disputing that, embee. I think she's saying though that some people do appear to develop amnesia in relation to life before parenthood - I think that's what she means anyway.

Aye, fair enough, maybe they do.

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them. To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

I don't go around telling people to bear in mind that they *might* be parents some day

cuckoo

embee wrote: »

Aye, fair enough, maybe they do.

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them. To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

I don't go around telling people to bear in mind that they *might* be parents some day

Ah, no, i don't have a problem with people focusing on their children, it's when they expect me to focus on their opinions because they have kids - that's what got me wound up enough to start a thread about it.

Dudess

Chinafoot wrote: »

Of course people are hypocritical when they have kids. I'd imagine most people want the best for their kids and as such would rather they stayed away from things like drugs and drink (until they're old enough anyway). My sister was also a "wild child" before she had her daughter

And yet your sister turned out ok didn't she? I think the "hypocrisy" people refer to is not a "wild child" toning down their ways and becoming a concerned parent, but acting all shocked and innocent and outraged when it comes to drugs and alcohol and promiscuity as if they never did those in their day, and warning their children they'll "kill them if they ever catch them doing any of that stuff".

I'd tend to agree with them. I can't possibly imagine what its like to have kids. I'm aware that it's difficult but I don't know just how hard it is. How could I? I think rolling your eyes and saying "yeah..I know" is far more dismissve tbh.

Saying "you wouldn't understand since you don't have children" is fair game in plenty of situations - I'm referring though to those instances where it's just not warranted, like the recent debacle in Parenting, and when it's used to undermine people rather than just being a statement of fact.

Seriously? For some who is accusing others of being patronising I find your attitude here to be out of order. The poster is merely letting people know where he is coming from in his post.

I was only having a giggle at it because it read very similarly to "Joe, I'm a father" as discussed humorously beforehand. I see now though how it could have been interpreted as facetious - apologies. It wasn't intended as such.

Yeah anyone with half a brain cell probably could grasp the concept...doesn't necessarily mean that those without children will fully understand the extent to which this actually happens.

Well plenty would - claiva just said "singletons". Not having children isn't, in and of itself, enough reason for a person to have no idea of how hard it is/how it changes you. E.g. staying at the home of a friend/relation who has small children gives you a good idea of even the day-to-day difficulties.

Guys this thread isn't going to be a free for all on parent bashing.

I'm certainly not a "parent-basher". There's a nasty movement whose agenda is to put people down simply for having children. I have zero time/tolerance for that venom. I just, like many others, have a distaste for people who seem to feel as if being a parent makes them superior to those who aren't parents.

Dudess

embee wrote: »

But I think that it's perfectly normal for your life to be engulfed by your child/children... they're implicit in everything you do, every choice you make, you do have to consider them.

Of course. Any good parent would. I'd be worried about a parent not doing the above.

To ask parents to always, always bear in mind that they were once non-parents, just so that people don't find them patronising,boring, whiney... well, it's a bit much.

Ah I think there's misinterpretation going on here - I'd hardly have a problem with a parent putting their child first at all times, with their life being built around their child. That just goes with the territory. I'd be the same.
What I'm referring to here is parents who have an elitist attitude towards non parents in terms of what they say, or who feel they're god's gift "as a mother/father". My friend and I were talking about a horrendous tragedy in our community concerning a little boy recently and both of us were trying to get our heads around it and talking about how shocked and upset we were. She then said to me "and if you've kids, it brings another dimension to it." She wasn't telling me "oh your sadness means nothing, you're not a mother"... she was simply saying the fact she has children makes the thought of such a tragedy physically painful. Perfectly reasonable.

Quality

Ah sure none of us would be here without our own parents!!

Its part of my evolution anyway, now that i am a parent my views are different, cant explain it but they just are!!

stovelid

Not to drag it out, but I must admit that unfair generalizations about parents seem more acceptable than those who elect to be child-free for whatever (perfectly valid) reasons.

To wit:

hamsterboy wrote: »

As Bill Bailey said, you can replace the words "Speaking as a parent" with "Speaking out of my arse"

00112984 wrote: »

I need to form a good debate on people having children causing a lot of this economic trouble.

JC 2K3 wrote: »

From my experience on boards, any opinion which is preceeded by something like "As a parent..." tends to significantly more ignorant and less intelligent than the average post.

And especially this:

allabouteve wrote: »

The worst kind of idiot seems to think the minute they whelp, they have some sort of extra insight or wisdom as a result.

allabouteve wrote: »

so don't assume no one else is capable of it unless they're a breeder too.

How long would specious and idiot generalizations about the child-free last on a forum about women's issues: rug-munchers, spinsters, barren birds; clock-tickers, and the like?

You know, a parent that feels that parenthood deserves some sort of medal or confers some sort of special insight on topics other than than parenting is an idiot. Ditto the parents that do nothing but talk about kids. But I'm not sure why this means it's open season on anybody with kids.

mossieh

I know I have to rein myself in from talking about my kids at times but it's difficult to convey how much of your time and thought they occupy and consequently difficult to not talk about that.

Nobody likes to be patronised, this is understood and some parents can be extremely patronising but I'd be willing to bet they were like that before they had kids too.

Becoming a parent does change your perspective, massively, and (trying to not sound patronising here) you really can't grasp the depth of that change until it happens. That's not a criticism, there are plenty of commonsense reasons why that is the case and I don't see why either side should use it as an excuse to talk down to the other side.

irishgrover

Speaking as a parent (:D - sorry couldn't resist), I think a few things happen that change the way you view things...
from my own experience - I had 4 kids under 6, and having them has changed me in the following ways...

TOO BUSY TOO TALK ABOUT ANYTHING INTERESTING...
I talk about my kids more that I probably should - I think the main reason for the is that feck all else happens in my life. They take up a shocking amount of my time, consequently to be honest I have feck all all to talk about, as I have feck all free time to do anything else.

WHY I'M A TWO FACED PR!CK
The moment I became a parent I became a two faced pr!ck, I absolutely don't want my daughters doing the things I did when I was younger, nor do I want them hanging around with people who do such. Not that I was completely nuts when I was younger, lets just say there was room for improvement. I think that it's just natural that parents want their kids lives to be an improvement on their own - it's probably just evolution.

AS A PATENT...
Because I now have kids I interact with and rely on things that used to be completely immaterial to me, things that I was totally unaware of and had no bearing on my life now have much more impact on me .... so as a parent.. school numbers annoy me (there are 30+ in my kids class), lack of road safety scares me (I live in a town but there is no footpath outside my house), the health care system frustrates me (my 4 yr old broke her arm in two places on a Friday, went to hospital, was x-rayed, given a sling (NOT a cast) and calpol, and told to come back on Tuesday when there would be a pediatric specialist available).
However, to be honest, I don't think I've ever started a sentence with 'as a parent' in my life...

BABY ON BOARD STICKERS
Never understood the purpose of these. I think the only people who actually put there up are first time, very excited parents?
However I usually treat them as a warning to other motorist as a warning "Baby on Board" = "Potentially very distracted driver!"

As a parent, that's all I've to say....