DART Performance Standards - Whats the point?

sitstill

On the dart on Friday there was a poster about the system's performance standards and it said in January, 98.26% of Darts came no more than ten minutes late.... I'm sorry - to me that is meaningless. There are either late or they are not. Does anyone know why they bother with these?

Cookie_Monster

sitstill wrote: »

There are either late or they are not. Does anyone know why they bother with these?

To make the system look better than it actually is. If the used 1 min delays to measure instead of 10 mins it might be valid.

But then again why would IE ever set a bar higher than needs be, rather than just aim for the lowest common denominator.

Ten minutes over a roughly 70-80 minute journel is a huge delay, and targets need to be set much much lower to make them meaningful in any way.

Cookie_Monster

Also surely the % on time should be lower. If the first Dart of the day is late then it's return run will also be late as will the 3 or 4 behind it who will have to slow down to avoid running directly behind it

paulm17781

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Also surely the % on time should be lower. If the first Dart of the day is late then it's return run will also be late as will the 3 or 4 behind it who will have to slow down to avoid running directly behind it

There are huge gaps between DARTs.

The "on time" figure should be within 3 minutes. If a DART is 9 minutes late and I miss a connecting train (let's say to Sligo) by 3 minutes because of this. How is this "on time"?

Cookie_Monster

paulm17781 wrote: »

There are huge gaps between DARTs.

5 minutes at rush hour is hardly a huge gap:rolleyes:

paulm17781

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

5 minutes at rush hour is hardly a huge gap:rolleyes:

I haven't see DARTs 5 minutes apart since 1998. They tend to be minimum 12 minutes these days.

HonalD

paulm17781 wrote: »

I haven't see DARTs 5 minutes apart since 1998. They tend to be minimum 12 minutes these days.

Are you sure, can you paste in the timetable etc. as it seems a bit far-fetched....but seeing IS believing!:)

Cookie_Monster

Dart leaving Dalkey (from Bray/Greystones) to Town at 8.01, 8.11, 8.21, 8.26, 8.31, 8.36, 8.44, 8.55
weekdays.

Granted there ain't to many of them but there they are...

Just stick in the stations

paulm17781

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Dart leaving Dalkey (Bray/Greystones) to Town at 8.01, 8.11, 8.21, 8.26, 8.31, 8.36, 8.44, 8.55
weekdays.


Just stick in the stations

Something tells me this is the exception to the rule and not one IE have to worry about in their performance standards.

I always laugh at that poster. 10 mins late is a HUGE delay - how can under 10 mins late be counted as 'on time'? Only in Ireland. Trains in the Brussels metro generally come every 3-4 mins max, the other day there was a 10 minute wait (a Saturday afternoon - not rush hour at all) and they kept apologising over the speakers. Everyone was moaning and looking at their watch. It's insane how you just get used to crap service in Ireland.

HonalD

[quote=[Deleted User];59245193]I always laugh at that poster. 10 mins late is a HUGE delay - how can under 10 mins late be counted as 'on time'? Only in Ireland. Trains in the Brussels metro generally come every 3-4 mins max, the other day there was a 10 minute wait (a Saturday afternoon - not rush hour at all) and they kept apologising over the speakers. Everyone was moaning and looking at their watch. It's insane how you just get used to crap service in Ireland.[/QUOTE]

patience is a virtue..................for some.......................:rolleyes:

It's nothing to do with patience. This is a service people are paying for. I cringe when I think how much of my life I wasted standing on DART platforms. Yeah it sounds funny but it adds up. My DART used to be 10 mins late every day, each way, that's almost 2 hours a week just standing there waiting.

Cookie_Monster

[quote=[Deleted User];59245193]I always laugh at that poster. 10 mins late is a HUGE delay.[/QUOTE]

Tis nothin sure.... IE have a 40 Minute gap on sat mornings, online timetable doesn't have it but one of the Darts runs empty, not letting people on. I think it was the 10.24 train from Bray

elekid

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Dart leaving Dalkey (from Bray/Greystones) to Town at 8.01, 8.11, 8.21, 8.26, 8.31, 8.36, 8.44, 8.55
weekdays.

Granted there ain't to many of them but there they are...

Just stick in the stations

It depends where you live, Portmarnock is woefully under-served. This is our morning rush hour timetable, Portmarnock to Connolly:

07:49, 08:12, 08:31, 09:06

and our evening rush hour timetable:

16:58, 17:23, 17:40, 18:02, 18:27, 18:43

Add a 10-minute delay to that and things get ridiculous

dmeehan

i was in london over the weekend, and got the stanstead express from the airport into the city. while waiting for the train an anouncement came on appologising for the delay of 4 minutes - i kid you not. all i could think about this was if it happenend at home Irish Rail would still say it was on time

and oyster card is SO handy, why are we spending millions on reports and feasability studies when tehre is an excelent system already working in london (i think its in hong kong too, not sure) that we could copy - but thats a rant for another thread

KC61

Because Oyster requires subvention from the government and the congestion charge and all revenue goes to the Regulator (Tfl).

The plan here is for revenue to go to operators.

BluntGuy

dmeehan wrote: »

i was in london over the weekend, and got the stanstead express from the airport into the city. while waiting for the train an anouncement came on appologising for the delay of 4 minutes - i kid you not. all i could think about this was if it happenend at home Irish Rail would still say it was on time

The London Tube service is excellent compared to the crap we have here. And yet people over there still complain about it. And rightly so, they are pushing for even higher standards in their public transport. Why don't we?

Many of us just sit there and accept this rubbish, brushing it off with "ah sure, 'tis better than it used to be" or "ah sure, 'tis better than nothing".

Now I'm sorry, 10 minutes late is not "on time". 5 minutes late is not "on time". 2 minutes late is not "on time". "On time" is when the train comes at the time it is scheduled to come.

IE should be ashamed with themselves for this drivel.

Now I'm sorry, 10 minutes late is not "on time". 5 minutes late is not "on time". 2 minutes late is not "on time". "On time" is when the train comes at the time it is scheduled to come.

Exactly. This attitude drives me mad. What really gets to me is not only are Irish Rail woeful, they have the gall to boast about ONLY being 10 minutes late! :eek: The foreign students I used to teach got a good laugh out of those posters. At first they wondered if it was supposed to be a joke. I used to spend longer waiting for the DART than the time I was on it once it finally arrived!

thebman

Yeah I always hated seeing them.

TBH, I don't mind the 5 or 10 minutes late my evening train was always late. The posters always annoyed me a lot more.

Acting like the service is better than it is is pathethic especially considering your doin this to the passangers who know what the service is like :rolleyes:

markpb

sitstill wrote: »

On the dart on Friday there was a poster about the system's performance standards and it said in January, 98.26% of Darts came no more than ten minutes late.... I'm sorry - to me that is meaningless. There are either late or they are not. Does anyone know why they bother with these?

I read somewhere recently that the trick to a good advert is to mention a brand name and then conjure an image that's as unbelievable as possible. For example, airlines ads show people relaxing in a comfortable, reclined chair with plenty of leg room. Dart adverts have 100% of trains running on time!

thebman

Yes as far as I know its called positive association.

So you say Ryanair and then show a picture of a model or something and people will subconsiously link the two together so when they think of Ryanair they'll also think of the model and be more inclined to use the service or whatever even though the two aren't in anyway related really other than in the ad.

However, it is a little different when the person is on your service and you have this on the ad space for them to read while they sit in the uncomfortable train that turned up late :P

Then the message is lost.

Gruffalo

It is absolutely crazy that 10 minutes late could be considered on time. I remember when I was commuting to Dublin from the midlands the posters used to say "arrived within 20 minutes of the scheduled time". Perhaps things are gradually getting better.:)

Bunnyhopper

Amusing take on this topic here.

Captain Chaos

Talking about the reliability for the DART, the posters say 100% for the end of last year yet in October and November I happened to be on 3 DARTs that had to be taken out of service during the morning rush because of a failure with the train. Was I just unlucky to be on all these failures or was there alot more. I think the latter.

IE statement, reliability does not count if the train is back in service within a week.:D

MOH

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Talking about the reliability for the DART, the posters say 100% for the end of last year yet in October and November I happened to be on 3 DARTs that had to be taken out of service during the morning rush because of a failure with the train. Was I just unlucky to be on all these failures or was there alot more. I think the latter.

IE statement, reliability does not count if the train is back in service within a week.:D

Be interesting to see what the stats are for February, given that no trains at all ran to Greystones for a couple of weeks.


Note also that the punctuality figures mean less than ten minutes late at final desitnation. So if a southbound DART is 20 minutes late reaching the city centre, but makes up more than 10 minutes before it reaches e.g. Greystones, it is officially on time.

Also, last year they were still using the same criteria, but not even bothering to mention anything about the 10 minutes on the posters.

loyatemu

MOH wrote: »

Be interesting to see what the stats are for February, given that no trains at all ran to Greystones for a couple of weeks.


Note also that the punctuality figures mean less than ten minutes late at final desitnation. So if a southbound DART is 20 minutes late reaching the city centre, but makes up more than 10 minutes before it reaches e.g. Greystones, it is officially on time.

I think its just City Centre, not the final destination or any intermediate stops (could be wrong here). Not that it matters - 10 minutes is such generous leeway on a sub-60 minute journey

Also, last year they were still using the same criteria, but not even bothering to mention anything about the 10 minutes on the posters.

I think Rail Users Ireland complained about this, hence the change to the poster. Good old Irish Rail - never mind what the dictionary says, we make our own definitions here...