The Brian Cowen Ard Fheis Speech Thread

Het-Field

Tonight, Brian Cowen will make his first speech as Taoiseach, and Leader of Fianna Fail. In 2008 falling ratings, and the Bertie issue ensured that the party had no Ard Fheis. However, this Conference is being held against the backdrop of plummeting poll ratings, rising unemployment, the seemingly unending banking crisis, and the day by day festering economic situation.

What can Cowen say ? Will he outline his national plan ? Will he outline a method for moving forward ? Will he declare the next steps towards the banking crisis ? Wiill he show leadership over the taxation issue, and make cunning decisions in the field ? Will he declare a new wave of FDI from the Obama office (unlikely) ? Will he declare a job stimulus package/scheme ? Will he declare a promise for major public sector reform ? Will he outline Ireland's "Next Steps" ?

Or will he...

Bash Fine Gael and Labour as unpatriotic ?
Use the word "Republican" 100 times with the 30 mins
Outline "what has been done", while consciously ignoring what hasnt ?
"Rally the troops" with uber partisan rhetoric, before ajouring to the bar.

SEPT 23 1989

one mention of the words "smart economy" and i will need a new TV come the morning:mad:

mike65

This will be boom or bust for Cowen, if he speaks as the leader of the State and not FF enunciating clearly a way forward the gubberment has a chance, if he can't see any further than partisan rhetortic the public will hammer FF so hard this spring they will not recover before the next general election.

I usually avoid these speeches like the plague but I may just tear myself away from Prem Soccer Saturday for this one.

Darragh29

Het-Field wrote: »

What can Cowen say ? Will he outline his national plan ? Will he outline a method for moving forward ? Will he declare the next steps towards the banking crisis ? Wiill he show leadership over the taxation issue, and make cunning decisions in the field ? Will he declare a new wave of FDI from the Obama office (unlikely) ? Will he declare a job stimulus package/scheme ? Will he declare a promise for major public sector reform ? Will he outline Ireland's "Next Steps" ?

He will do none of the above, and even if he did all of the above, he still doesn't have the drive or the intelligence or the vision or the ambition to implement any effective action that he might tell us is required to start pulling us out of this calamity.

It's one thing saying your going to do something, this is the easy part, which he can't even manage to do at the moment!!! The hard part is taking the plan and the strategy and implementing it, he first of all doesn't even have a plan, secondly he cannot communicate a plan if he had one, and most importantly of all, he cannot implement policy in a way that brings about immediate and effective results.

I hate saying this as I feel like I'm talking the country down, but I've never seen a man more devoid of leadership ability and inspiration in my entire life.

I'd actually like to be able to get behind him and give him my support but I can't help but see a man who is hopelessly out of his depth and unable to cope in his job. If he had a decent Tanaiste and Finance Minister, he just might be able to pull it off, but Jesus the three of them are hopeless, it is the only word you could find to describe them.

ejmaztec

He'll probably start playing the fiddle after the smoke alarm goes off.

I watched an hour or so ago when Lenihan was spouting and could take no more after a few minutes. I couldn't work out why there was an audience, unless they were all locked in.

Darragh29

This is where the 120K people should be protesting, outside this venue.

sceptre

ejmaztec wrote: »

I couldn't work out why there was an audience, unless they were all locked in.

Even wannabes who hope to preside over a burned shack hope to preside over something.

spadder

sceptre wrote: »

Even wannabes who hope to preside over a burned shack hope to preside over something.

Yep, the adulating, brainwashed morons. I wonder if this is what Waco looked like before David koresh set fire to the kip.

Darragh29

I hear they are handing these out at the Ard Fheis...

sceptre

<sigh> I shouldn't bother with allegorical references, it just opens the floodgates for the bad standup comedy and extreme references.

Let's do the "serious thread" thing, people, eh? I've complete respect for the existence and operation of After Hours but this isn't it. And it's not going to become it either.

Sully

Regardless, everyone will give him a standing ovation, cheer and clap him on as if nothing ever happened.

Id assume he will deliver a good speach but I cant see it having any difference in the local/european elections. People dont care about speaches, they want the correct action taken.

nesf

First thing he's talked about that I hugely support is reforming our bank regulation system and form a single regulator for commercial institutions and a separate one for regulating products offered to the public. I'll need to see details but this is very good. We need this.

He's also mentioned higher taxes and cutting spending, until he actually brings concrete plans forward I'll withhold my views on this. He is in a position to do more than talk and needs to act here.

Sully

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500495

nesf

Threads merged. I can't believe I missed this thread.

nesf

Sully wrote: »

Regardless, everyone will give him a standing ovation, cheer and clap him on as if nothing ever happened.

Of course, it's a party conference. They're all the same in this way, doesn't matter what country you're in.

Sully

So what do people make so far? So far, I wouldnt think its anything special our outstanding. Not sure its what people would have expected but more to come I guess.

Darragh29

Sully wrote: »

So what do people make so far? So far, I wouldnt think its anything special our outstanding. Not sure its what people would have expected but more to come I guess.

Most unconvincing speech I have ever heard in my life.

Sully

nesf wrote: »

Of course, it's a party conference. They're all the same in this way, doesn't matter what country you're in.

Oh I know. True FF crowd sticking with the party regardless. I found the comment on Lisbon amusing when he got an applause considering a huge amount of blame can be left on his party for loosing it.

nesf

Sully wrote: »

So what do people make so far? So far, I wouldnt think its anything special our outstanding. Not sure its what people would have expected but more to come I guess.

The regulatory thing was good and was so badly needed. They needed to make up their mind and bite the bullet and either decide to try and fix our present one or try to form a whole new system. They've chosen the better of the two options given international experiences in this.

Alessandra

They are clapping like duracell bunnies and with no conviction.. Not convinced at all Brian. Now the emotional anecdote, eugh

Hillel

The best idea he can come up with is a "meitheal", right. I don't give him three months.

Alessandra

That was not worthy of standing ovation

Darragh29

Alessandra wrote: »

That was not worthy of standing ovation

It was worthy of a pair of fast moving and well worn leather shoes connecting with his head...

Hillel

Alessandra wrote: »

That was not worthy of standing ovation

Maybe, if it was his obituary.

(Pity he doesn't recognise that there's real anger with politicians, "out there" and their refusal to share in the "pain and hardship"!)

nesf

It was better than I expected and considering the circumstances he did ok. He's not a great orator and we all knew that.

Actions will speak louder than words in this. If he follows through on his speech, delivers the new regulatory system, cuts in spending and rises in taxes then I'll be happy enough. Everything after that is just window dressing, without sorting out our financial sector we won't be able to borrow the necessary money to cover us while we make the necessary fiscal adjustments to balance the budget because we cannot do it in one year.

Hillel

Ireland might well rise again, but not with Brian at the helm. No way!

Alessandra

How are we facing the situation from a "stronger position" than before? I don't believe the national debt has ever been so large?

Darragh29

Hillel wrote: »

Maybe, if it was his obituary.

(Pity he doesn't recognise that there's real anger with politicians, "out there" and their refusal to share in the "pain and hardship"!)

Couldn't agree more, he doesn't seem to get the fact that the book stops with the government. If the bankers screw us over, he is responsible and culpable. That's what we have been paying him and his ilk for and they haven't delivered, it's as simple as that.

Trotter

I'm politically fairly neutral and I'd have to say that I was completely unconvinced by that speech. It was full of waffle.

I have no confidence in these people to lead with honesty. I don't trust them, or him.

Where are all the FF voters/supporters here? What do you think?

RealityCheck

That speech was complete and utter revolting drivel. Cliche after cliche with absolutely no substance. That in my opinion was his last chance to turn it around and he has let it go idly by. Goodbye Brian.
Did anyone notice the body language of all the ministers? They looked so disinterested.

nesf

Alessandra wrote: »

How are we facing the situation from a "stronger position" than before? I don't believe the national debt has ever been so large?

Yes, hugely so. As a percentage of our national income our public debt is very small compared to what it was like in the 70s and 80s. Though it's going to deteriorate a lot over the next three to five years we're still better off than we were.

Seriously you people have short memories, this is nothing compared to the crap we were in before they finally pulled themselves together and implemented the Tallaght strategy.

Hillel

nesf wrote: »

If he follows through on his speech, delivers the new regulatory system, cuts in spending and rises in taxes then I'll be happy enough.

We'll I won't, it is big on rhetoric and short on specifics.
Still no commitment to Public Service or Government reform. No attempt to show leadership by cuts to TD's/Ministers salaries, pensions and perks. Nothing that would convince international investors taht they have a handle on this.

Alessandra

Trotter wrote: »

Where are all the FF voters/supporters here? What do you think?

I'd love to know how they managed to fill a room with FF supporters at this stage.

Hillel

nesf wrote: »

Seriously you people have short memories, this is nothing compared to the crap we were in before they finally pulled themselves together and implemented the Tallaght strategy.

Are you serious :eek:

Haven't been near the magic mushrooms, by any chance?

Even Brian acknowledges that it is worst crisis, in an Ireland context, of our generation.

nesf

Hillel wrote: »

We'll I won't, it is big on rhetoric and short on specifics.
Still no commitment to Public Service or Government reform. No attempt to show leadership by cuts to TD's/Ministers salaries, pensions and perks. Nothing that would convince international investors taht they have a handle on this.

My expectations for what he's capable of delivering is low. If he manages those three things he'll have exceeded them, which isn't much.

Reworking the regulatory system is something that international investors will be looking very closely at. If he gets someone who has no connections to the Irish banking sector to head his new regulatory body and the Fraud Squad deals well with Anglo then investors might be more favourable.

It's unrealistic to expect our bond prices to decline back to where they were in anything but a time line stretching years though, even if he does everything right.

Darragh29

Last 20th September, he announced the state guarantee of the banks, he said he would make the banks that were being guaranteed, start lending to small businesses again to protect jobs.

Today he is still talking about the same thing and no sign of him delivering on it and now because he failed to act, we are losing 2,000 jobs a day. If that isn't failure, I don't know what is...

Hillel

Alessandra wrote: »

I'd love to know how they managed to fill a room with FF supporters at this stage.

A lot of aspiring county councillors, still hoping to save their asses.:D

andywozhere

Alessandra wrote: »

I'd love to know how they managed to fill a room with FF supporters at this stage.

Most of the looked bored shi*less.

nesf

Hillel wrote: »

Are you serious :eek:

Haven't been near the magic mushrooms, by any chance?

Even Brian acknowledges that it is worst crisis, in an Ireland context, of our generation.

Oh, as a crisis this is far worse than the oil shocks of the 70s and 80s, but our public debt which is what I was talking about is in a far better position than it was back then.

acontadino

majestic speach by biffo.

Alessandra

nesf wrote: »

Yes, hugely so. As a percentage of our national income our public debt is very small compared to what it was like in the 70s and 80s. Though it's going to deteriorate a lot over the next three to five years we're still better off than we were.

Seriously you people have short memories, this is nothing compared to the crap we were in before they finally pulled themselves together and implemented the Tallaght strategy.

That's all very well well but revenue is decreasing rapidly. I believe the figures are even worse than we are led to believe. We have very little progress made in terms of infrastructure in our health service and are now cutting expenditure in education and health.. If we had higher taxes during the boom and proper provision had been made for the inevitable we wouldn;t have to endure such hardship now.

Now I'd be all for higher taxes like France if we were getting anything in return.. We're giving more and getting less in return. Tax at 50% will be hard to swallow.

Hillel

nesf wrote: »

My expectations for what he's capable of delivering is low. If he manages those three things he'll have exceeded them, which isn't much.

Agreed. But, "isn't much" simply isn't enough in current circumstances.

andywozhere

new thinking? so inspired by breast cancer patients, cowen sanctions massive cuts in health spending! possibly not the best choice of inspiration?

Hillel

nesf wrote: »

Oh, as a crisis this is far worse than the oil shocks of the 70s and 80s, but our public debt which is what I was talking about is in a far better position than it was back then.

Yeah, but not for long. The outlook is truly frightening.

Darragh29

nesf wrote: »

Oh, as a crisis this is far worse than the oil shocks of the 70s and 80s, but our public debt which is what I was talking about is in a far better position than it was back then.

Remember back in the 70's and 80's, a minister didn't have a whole team of media handlers, spin consultants and wasters around him. A minister back then did their job and didn't need a battalion of over paid hangers on to get through their working day. The amount of waste we are carrying now is nothing near what it was in previous decades.

RealityCheck

nesf wrote: »

Oh, as a crisis this is far worse than the oil shocks of the 70s and 80s, but our public debt which is what I was talking about is in a far better position than it was back then.

Thats all well and good but that doesnt take into account the astronomical private debts that the ordinary people are faced with. This limits what the government can do.

Darragh29

andywozhere wrote: »

new thinking? so inspired by breast cancer patients, cowen sanctions massive cuts in health spending! possibly not the best choice of inspiration?

He obviously wasn't that impressed with them when he allowed the reversal of the decision to give lifesaving cancer vaccines to shchoolchildren.

juuge

andywozhere wrote: »

new thinking? so inspired by breast cancer patients, cowen sanctions massive cuts in health spending! possibly not the best choice of inspiration?

Yeah ! Cutting health spending while maintaining an expensive and useless bunch of junior ministers and ministers of state that should be f**ked out into the real world. Jaysus! Fianna Fail have to go !

nesf

RealityCheck wrote: »

Thats all well and good but that doesnt take into account the astronomical private debts that the ordinary people are faced with. This limits what the government can do.

Indeed it does which is part of why I think this crisis will be worse than the ones of the 70s and 80s. The public finances are in a better position (which isn't saying much) but the broader economic picture is worse in many ways especially in that the problems in many of our main export markets are just as serious as ours.

And Darragh29 we had plenty of crap politicians back then too.

RealityCheck

Alessandra wrote: »

That's all very well well but revenue is decreasing rapidly. I believe the figures are even worse than we are led to believe. We have very little progress made in terms of infrastructure in our health service and are now cutting expenditure in education and health.. If we had higher taxes during the boom and proper provision had been made for the inevitable we wouldn;t have to endure such hardship now.

Now I'd be all for higher taxes like France if we were getting anything in return.. We're giving more and getting less in return. Tax at 50% will be hard to swallow.

That is all very true. The vicious circle is spiralling out of control. The problem is that by the time Brian Lenihan raises taxes the gap in spending will be almost unsurmountable. They need to act Now not after the local elections and Lisbon 2. If we let the figures get much bigger we will be absolute junk and nobody will lend to us. We simply cannot let the predicted deficit get any bigger.

AlekSmart

A thoroughly uninspiring speech in content and delivery...who writes these things ?

One very obvious element of the Governance thing would be to maintain the Politicians Pay and Conditions,but instead to double the representation level.

The Dàil should consist of no more than 83 Members and the Seanad 20.

Additionally far more Parliamentary business should be done via all-party Committee with only the most contentious of stuff actually taking up the very valuable time of Parliament.
The entire concept of Minister for State is totally unnecessary and should cease forthwith.
The recruitment of high profile "Faces" to head up quasi political bodies such as the HSE needs to be more transparent and the reasoning behind it fully researched BEFORE contracts are entered into.

I am mindful here of the current HSE situation where the position of Prof Drumm is now a dei-facto bulkhead between the Citizenry and an elected and duly appointed Minister.
Mary Harney in her current role is surely potentially open to charges of professional negligence in relation to many aspects of the Health brief but the ever present presence of Prof Drumm in some role or other keeps the Minister insulated.

This situation cannot continue for ever and it requires serious consideration as to whether it is to become overall Govermental Policy or simply a one-off in this case.

However as tonight shows,there remains a vast gulf in what the Political establishment are prepared to do and what they are REQUIRED to do in order to prevent the collapse of the country.