Brand new BMW 116d Diesel from UK €22,687

LoveDucati2

Brand new BMW 116d Diesel from UK €22,687 3 year warranty.


Car brand new in Ireland €28,500 with 2 year warranty.

Can someone from BMW please explain this.


Brand new 116d BMW

STG price new £15,591 (-15% VAT = 13,557)

£13,557stg = €15,270 euro

add Vat 21.5% = €18,553

add VRT 14% = €4,134 based on OMSP

total cash price €22,687

Yearly road tax = €104

Mailman

that vrt value looks wrong.
I figure €3591 at 28500 x .9 * 14%
Personally, I'd seek out a six or twelve month old car and avoid the VAT as well and pay a chunk less VRT too.

another one is the Kia Soul diesel which is selling for £12495 in UK and is bumped up to €19995 here in Ireland. Rip off

LoveDucati2

Mailman wrote: »

that vrt value looks wrong.
I figure €3591 at 28500 x .9 * 14%
Personally, I'd seek out a six or twelve month old car and avoid the VAT as well and pay a chunk less VRT too.

another one is the Kia Soul diesel which is selling for £12495 in UK and is bumped up to €19995 here in Ireland. Rip off

I overestimated the VRT cost as the car has not been released here yet.

Your calculation is wrong.

28500 is the price I am estimating the car should be here. That figure is 114% of the OSMP. Divide by 114 *100 is the correct calc.

Mailman

No OMSP is RRP x 90%
VRT is at a rate of 14% if it emits less that 120g/KM
VRT is 14% of OMSP.

LoveDucati2

Brand new BMW 318d Diesel from UK €30,691 3 year warranty.


Car brand new in Ireland €40,500 with 2 year warranty.

Can someone from BMW please explain this.


Brand new 318d BMW

STG price new £21,359 (-15% VAT = 18,573)

£18,573stg = €20,860 euro

add Vat 21.5% = €25,344

add VRT 16% = €5,347 based on OMSP

total cash price €30,691

Yearly road tax = €156

Guy:Incognito

Are you goign to go through every car?

What have BMW to explain? Even if it was 100,000 here they dont have to explain themsles. They can sell them for whatever they like.

Would you not go live in the UK and avail of all the cheap cars.

LoveDucati2

Stekelly wrote: »

Are you goign to go through every car?

I have posted on the 1,3 and 5 series BMW's only.

Hopefully just even a few % of potential new BMW buyers will read this or be told this by someone on boards.

Stekelly wrote: »

What have BMW to explain? Even if it was 100,000 here they dont have to explain themsles. They can sell them for whatever they like.

A 10k difference on a car costing 30k in the same Island is Insane.

Stekelly wrote: »

Would you not go live in the UK and avail of all the cheap cars.

I do live in the UK, how did you know:)

Guy:Incognito

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I have posted on the 1,3 and 5 series BMW's only.

Hopefully just even a few % of potential new BMW buyers will read this or be told this by someone on boards.



A 10k difference on a car costing 30k in the same Island is Insane.:)

Everyone in the country knows and has known for donkeys years that cars are a good bit more expensive here , your not an innovator or a pioneer.


Oh, and they still dont have to justify anything. They can sell for whatever price they want

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

I do live in the UK, how did you know:)

So why the hell are you inflicting yourself on us?

LoveDucati2

For you stekelly



Brand new 520d from UK €35,500
Here is the newest price in from the UK including VRT and VAT, ferry flight and 3 year warranty.

It is for an SE without leather.

Our dealers here €52,000 new,

08 second hand imports from €42k.

What a joke

peasant

threads merged

LoveDucati2

Stekelly wrote: »

Everyone in the country knows and has known for donkeys years that cars are a good bit more expensive here , your not an innovator or a pioneer.


Oh, and they still dont have to justify anything. They can sell for whatever price they want





So why the hell are you inflicting yourself on us?

Whats your problem. Do you like people being ripped off.

Can you understand that this is why Ireland is so expensive.

How did we get from the reasonable value in the 90's to the crazy labour charges we have now.

A service 10 years ago was 80 quid.

crocro

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Car brand new in Ireland €28,500 with 2 year warranty.

This car is not yet sold inIreland so how do you know the Irish list price?

Brand new 116d BMW

STG price new £15,591

List price in the UK is 17,605

(-16% VAT = 13,440)

UK VAT is 15% - not 16%

Guy:Incognito

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

Whats your problem. Do you like people being ripped off.

Can you understand that this is why Ireland is so expensive.

How did we get from the reasonable value in the 90's to the crazy labour charges we have now.

A service 10 years ago was 80 quid.

My problem is your demanding a company justifies its prices to you. They dont have to do anything of the sort.


The pre tax prices of the cars are similar enough and afaik up to the collapse of sterling (which is the fault of no one in this country) they were cheaper here. So therefore , it's nothing to do with BMW.

So unless you expect BMW to be able to sell the car here for about 7k less than the UK price pre tax this thread is stupid and pointless.

-Chris-

Consider the minimum wages in Europe

Ireland has the second highest minimum wage in Europe behind Luxembourg. At current exchange rates the Irish minimum wage is 40% higher than the UK minimum wage rate.
(A bit of a leap but...) If we apply this trend to the national wage structure in general and if we assume that the national wage rates inform the prices of products and services, then BMW UK are slightly overcharging their customers compared to Ireland.


Also consider the median hourly pay in the private sector.

Even though Irish prices are generally higher than UK prices, both of us get the same rating for real net spending power.



Also, our wage increases have been higher than the EU average.

All in all, I'm not saying that BMW Ireland are under of overcharging us, or whether the Irish Government are overtaxing us or not, I'm merely making a very simplistic illustration of how and why you can't just compare prices between two separate territories with different tax rates and cost bases and wildly cry "Rip off!!".



While your point is interesting, your sums so far have been incorrect (you haven't understood OMSP properly, or even used the correct VAT rate for the UK). :rolleyes:


I suggest the best thing for you to do is to rally the Irish public to march on the Dail and demand a substantial reduction in the national minimum wage. It's only by lowering our cost base that our goods and service providers will be able to afford to drop their prices.

C'mon LoveDucati2, let's go!! We'll rally the masses and shout from the rooftops, "We want lower wages, we want lower wages!!!". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:



Edit: More evidence (I think this was mentioned in a different thread, but I think it's appropriate here too):
Aldi graduate starting salary in Ireland - €60k
Aldi graduate starting salary in the UK - £40k

BMW pricing cannot be taken and compared in isolation, to do so is pointless.

LoveDucati2

Stekelly wrote: »

My problem is your demanding a company justifies its prices to you. They dont have to do anything of the sort.

The pre tax prices of the cars are similar enough and afaik up to the collapse of sterling (which is the fault of no one in this country) they were cheaper here. So therefore , it's nothing to do with BMW.

So unless you expect BMW to be able to sell the car here for about 7k less than the UK price pre tax this thread is stupid and pointless.

The cars come from the same place, they are the same cars.

They are the SAME cars, with €4 - 7,000 worth of extra tax.

cloughy

correct me if I am wrong, but if buying new from the UK, then the VRT is calculated off the invoice price irrespective of the OSMP, as it is new and OSMP is not relevant.

Is that not correct ?

LoveDucati2

AudiChris wrote: »

While your point is interesting, your sums so far have been incorrect (you haven't understood OMSP properly, or even used the correct VAT rate for the UK). :rolleyes:

I know what OMSP is.

UK VAT rate was an error thats corrected now.

AudiChris wrote: »

BMW pricing cannot be taken and compared in isolation, to do so is pointless.

Of course it can, Irish people have a choice where to buy their new BMW.

They can choose to buy a 3 series diesel 10 grand cheaper on the same Island.

Mailman

cloughy wrote: »

correct me if I am wrong, but if buying new from the UK, then the VRT is calculated off the invoice price irrespective of the OSMP, as it is new and OSMP is not relevant.

Is that not correct ?

OMSP is at the core of everything VRT related.

Pique

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

The cars come from the same place, they are the same cars.

They are the SAME cars, with €4 - 7,000 worth of extra tax.

Not the whole story, and this is something worth noting. BMW(and every other manufacturer) sell their cars, pre-tax, at different prices to different markets.

A few years ago, we were getting Alfa 156s cheaper than anywhere else in Europe....pre-tax. After tax, Alfa 156s in Ireland were more expensive then most other European countries.

We DO get screwed thanks to VRT. LoveDucati2 has a very valid point and people need to be made aware of it so that our money works the best for us (and screw this 'patriotism' crap....I buy my car for 10K less abroad, means that 10K will be spent on local businesses, rather than going on taxes for overinflated TDs salaries, grants of millions to horse studs, etc.).

SteKelly is missing the point(IMO) and that is to show those who don't already know, that buying a car in Ireland without looking at the comparable car imported from the UK, that they're being at best naive, and at worst, stupid.

Seth Brundle

BMW (and some other manufacturers) were to have brought in a policy of charging the same pre-tax price right across the EU.

galwaytt

Pique wrote: »

....I buy my car for 10K less abroad, means that 10K will be spent on local businesses, rather than going on taxes for overinflated TDs salaries, grants of millions to horse studs, etc.).

Not so. As the Aldi job ad shows, you'd get paid less in the UK in the first place, so you wouldn't have the 10 grand, anyway. Furhtermore, unless you've spent 5 years saving religiously, you'll be borrowing at least some, if not all, of the money. You're not going to borrow an extra 10k just to spend it in the shops............

Ducati - as you've said yourself - the issue is tax. That has nothing to do with traders or importers.

DubTony

kbannon wrote: »

BMW (and some other manufacturers) were to have brought in a policy of charging the same pre-tax price right across the EU.

Wasn't that some sort of EU thing? Theu wanted a level playing field across the union and were taling about forcing a standard price Europe wide.

As to the OP.

Why would anyone care what price a new 116 is ? :P

galwaytt

DubTony wrote: »

Wasn't that some sort of EU thing? Theu wanted a level playing field across the union and were taling about forcing a standard price Europe wide.

Yes, but it can't work. For all consumer prices to be equal, taxes across the EU would have to be equal. They're not, and never will be - Irl Inc won't give up VRT just 'cos the Germans don't charge any.....

So, to make consumer pricing equal, mfr's have been trying to adjust pre-tax prices instead. Which gets skewed when people start buying in one tax jurisdiction, and registering it another - you get weird mix of different pre-tax prices and post-tax prices..........all very confusing.

As to the OP.

Why would anyone care what price a new 116 is ? :P

Guy:Incognito

LoveDucati2 wrote: »

with €4 - 7,000 worth of extra tax.

So why are you asking for BMW to explain themsleves?

pburns

AudiChris wrote: »

Consider the minimum wages in Europe

Ireland has the second highest minimum wage in Europe behind Luxembourg. At current exchange rates the Irish minimum wage is 40% higher than the UK minimum wage rate.
(A bit of a leap but...) If we apply this trend to the national wage structure in general and if we assume that the national wage rates inform the prices of products and services, then BMW UK are slightly overcharging their customers compared to Ireland.


Also consider the median hourly pay in the private sector.

Even though Irish prices are generally higher than UK prices, both of us get the same rating for real net spending power.


Also, our wage increases have been higher than the EU average.

All in all, I'm not saying that BMW Ireland are under of overcharging us, or whether the Irish Government are overtaxing us or not, I'm merely making a very simplistic illustration of how and why you can't just compare prices between two separate territories with different tax rates and cost bases and wildly cry "Rip off!!".


While your point is interesting, your sums so far have been incorrect (you haven't understood OMSP properly, or even used the correct VAT rate for the UK). :rolleyes:

I suggest the best thing for you to do is to rally the Irish public to march on the Dail and demand a substantial reduction in the national minimum wage. It's only by lowering our cost base that our goods and service providers will be able to afford to drop their prices.

C'mon LoveDucati2, let's go!! We'll rally the masses and shout from the rooftops, "We want lower wages, we want lower wages!!!". :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Edit: More evidence (I think this was mentioned in a different thread, but I think it's appropriate here too):
Aldi graduate starting salary in Ireland - €60k
Aldi graduate starting salary in the UK - £40k

BMW pricing cannot be taken and compared in isolation, to do so is pointless.

Some excellent points. IMO we need to take some pain and deflate the whole economy. There are too many 'ordinary' Joe/Joesephine Soaps out there living the type of lifestyle (holidays, cars, homes) that a millionaire would have baulked at 20 years ago. I guess the Motors forum isn't the place for my curmudgeonly views though!

Distributors (not necessarily dealers) DID take the piss on the margins they charged in Ireland during the good times but we closed our eyes, opened up and let it happen.

And before anyone starts whinging about VRT I think it's fair enough we got charged a huge whack of money for sending such a large amount to Bavaria, Wolfsburg, Tokyo or wherever.

On a related note it makes me laugh when the SIMI are on whinging for incentives to revitalise the 'motor industry' . We don't have a motor 'industry'. It's part of the retail sector pure and simple. Not that it matters to the poor sods at the coalface losing their jobs I know, but it seems like such a load of over-bloated self-aggrandisment so typical of the Pseudo Tiger years.

BTW Audichris - hope things are going steady for you, not a good time to be in the motor industry

crocro

BMW chose not to raise its sterling pre-tax price after the pound fell against the euro. BMW is absorbing the loss in the UK rather than risk raising prices in a depressed market.

This means there is an opportunity to import a new bmw at a discount to local prices. BMW will even help you and supply a car with the speedo in KMs etc.

http://www.bmwtaxfree.co.uk/6000-export/index.html

Like any arbitrage, it won't go on forever.

galwaytt

pburns wrote: »

And before anyone starts whinging about VRT I think it's fair enough we got charged a huge whack of money for sending such a large amount to Bavaria, Wolfsburg, Tokyo or wherever.

...... We don't have a motor 'industry'. It's part of the retail sector pure and simple.

I don't get that - you think we deserve VRT because we don't have a Motor industry ?

So what alterantive to the car industry are you suggesting for: transport, police, services, goods delivery, emergency, - even if you invent the utopian fuel in a back garden in Dublin.........the cars will still be built in France/Germany/Japan/wherever.

P.C.

I have a question:

Would the OP like the UK to come in here and annex the Republic of Ireland?
Would the OP like the Republic of Ireland to become a province of the UK.

Somehow I don't think so.

They are two different countries.
They have different currencies.
They are allowed to sell things at different prices.

mickdw

When Euro was about 67 pence sterling there was not a huge amount between prices in uk and ireland. BMW uk are buying the cars from germany (a euro country) so assuming that that BMW factories still get the same euro price for the car ex factory, how can they even afford to sell the cars in the uk for the same sterling price as before. Someone is taking a huge profit hit.

Drummerboy08

I was away over the weekend so i didnt see this thread.

He's not back again is he?

testicle

P.C. wrote: »

I have a question:

Would the OP like the UK to come in here and annex the Republic of Ireland?
Would the OP like the Republic of Ireland to become a province of the UK.

Somehow I don't think so.

They are two different countries.
They have different currencies.
They are allowed to sell things at different prices.

And given that we are both in the EU, people form either country are free to go to the other to buy whatever they like.

LoveDucati2

P.C. wrote: »

I have a question:

Would the OP like the UK to come in here and annex the Republic of Ireland?
Would the OP like the Republic of Ireland to become a province of the UK.

Somehow I don't think so.

They are two different countries.
They have different currencies.
They are allowed to sell things at different prices.

Are you mentally deficient?

Irish people have a choice where to buy their new BMW.


I do not understand why you would want to pay over 10,000 euro extra for the exact same car in the same Island.

If the 520d is 35k brand new imported with longer warranty, why would you pay 45k+ for it here.