NS?

macgowan

What happens exactly when you are given an "NS" (non satisfactory) from college?

Are you "allowed" to get just one?

Agent Smith

I would imagine you would have to Retake the class/year


Donal or xeducat Would prob know more, tbh

godtabh

go speak to your tutor

snappieT

You're allowed to get 1 per year, from a maximum possible three (one for each term). Go speak to your tutor now to see why you got the NS and to get assistance in not getting an NS for Hilary Term.

Boston

Entirely depends on you school/ faculty. What snappy describes above is the case for Engineering/CS but i know some Arts schools hand them out like candy.

tabouli

snappieT wrote: »

You're allowed to get 1 per year, from a maximum possible three (one for each term). Go speak to your tutor now to see why you got the NS and to get assistance in not getting an NS for Hilary Term.

So say if you got two or three in this term, you'd be ok as long as you didn't get any in the last term?

Boston

In engineering if you get two in a year you're not allowed pass the year.

Jonathan

Boston wrote: »

In engineering if you get two in a year you're not allowed pass the year.

What can you get one for?

Crash

In CS i believe that if you get two in a year, its at the discretion of the school whether you're allowed to sit exams and pass the year.

Denerick

They are basically a kick up the behind to make sure you go to your tutorials. I got one, paniced, talked to my tutor and said I was sorry. Nothing to it. Never heard of anyone having to repeat because of it.

Boston

jmccrohan wrote: »

What can you get one for?

I've never actually known of someone getting one. But in general they're used when you fail to complete some aspect of a course. In second year we had two programming projects worth about 10% and the lecturer warned us that he would hand them out if we didn't make submissions. The logic being that it was a bad idea for you to be able to pass the year without having done any of the course work.

Crash wrote: »

In CS i believe that if you get two in a year, its at the discretion of the school whether you're allowed to sit exams and pass the year.

That's more accurate, same for the entire faculty.

macgowan

It's in History, and I know why it is: laziness. I'm just wondering if they're more meaningless than they let on...

Denerick

I got one. Its just intimidating language and vague threats. You won't get a second one if you've any sense.

JohnnyDoogue

I do history...you need to get an NS in Michaelmas Term and Hilary Term ie 2. They hand them out alot in history.Laziness is not a valid excuse for absence HOWEVER personal problems etc would allow for an NS to be waved away. Its hard to get two NS' i wouldnt worry but go to your tutor anyway


EDIT:Ok your a first year and you got an NS!!. They must be getting stricter since last year. Just go to your tutorial guy for whatever course Irish/Early European etc if you have'nt been going in this term and just explain to them the situation lalala and attend the rest of their tutorials to get on the good side of them. Therefore no NSing again. You might be just unlucky with your tutorial person who keeps an eye on whose in and whose in bed. It happens. Im TSM history as well and know loads who got one NS just as a scare tactic. Just be careful.

snappieT

Boston wrote: »

Entirely depends on you school/ faculty. What snappy describes above is the case for Engineering/CS but i know some Arts schools hand them out like candy.

Apologies, shouldn't have generalised. I presume, however, that an NS functions as a kick up the arse, and you'd need more than just the one to fail the year, regardless of faculty.

LenovoUser

I believe that in CS, an NS in Trinity term doesn't " count " , that you have to get one in Michaelmas as well as in Hilary, the two 9-week sessions.

And in CS you don't have to pass the coursework in either 5-credit subject in 1st year - there are two.

However, you do have to hand up Coursework whether it's right or wrong, making a genuine attempt in both 5-credit subjects.

There were seven NS' issued at the end of Michaelmas to CS Junior Freshmen, so those seven would want to be really careful and attend and hand up everything ( sleep is no excuse ! ), in this last approaching week of Hilary. Attend, submit and attend again, and be sure to make sure you are seen attending, esp by asking every lecturer a question dring the week, ask, even about the weather, but be there and be seen and heard to be there :-) Cheers and the best of luck :-)

Boston

Enough of this guess work. and rumor. See here.

Extract from University of Dublin Calendar 2007-08, General Regulations, page H6.

Non-satisfactory attendance and course work

§23 All students must fulfil the requirements of the faculty, school or department, as appropriate, with regard to attendance and course work. Where specific requirements are not stated, students may be deemed non-satisfactory if they miss more than a third of their course of study or fail to submit a third of the required course work in any term.

§24 At the end of the teaching term, students who have not satisfied the school or department requirements, as set out in §§17, 21 and 23 above, may be returned to the Senior Lecturer as non-satisfactory for that term. In accordance with the regulations laid down by the University Council non-satisfactory students may be refused permission to take their annual examinations and may be required by the Senior Lecturer to repeat their year.

Denerick

Yeah, but that is never actually enforced. I didn't go to one single history of political science seminars last years and got a first. Completely depends on whether your particular tutor is a dickhead.

Boston

1) Just because its not enforced for your course doesn't mean it isn't enforced in others.
2) You're the dickhead, not your tutor.

Denerick

Take it easy there mate, but there is clearly a big gap between the tutors who go the bother of reporting people for NS's and those who don't.

mathew

if its in the college regulations they have every right to take action... in no way does that make them 'a dickhead'. You cant expect to succede if you dont put in the work. The tutors job is to ensure you are putting in the work..

Denerick

'They have every right to take action' Yes, they do. It depends on the tutor. There are people who think they know whats best for you, or simply report you because they enjoy it for some reason and then there are people who don't. I do my work thanks very much, more than most actually, but there are some classes I choose not to attend. The great thing about university is that it is not a school, and the emphasis in on self directed learning.

Boston

You're a very clever chap, arn't you.

LenovoUser

Boston wrote: »

You're a very clever chap, arn't you.

In fact Denerick is correct and has the right approach - only dickheads have to attend every lecture, tutorial and laboratory, ask Stephen Hawking - he hardly ever attended anything at all :--)

You either have it ( like Denerick and Hawking) or you haven't it, sorry about that :-

An if a lecturer knows you have it , he won't sent an NS as in the case of Denerick .

Diickheads who have to attend everything , and swot, are known at Oxford as " Grey Men " - to be popular you must be naturally brilliant, or a good sport .

Mark200

Denerick wrote: »

The great thing about university is that it is not a school, and the emphasis in on self directed learning.

What university? Because in this one the rules state that if you don't attend too many lectures/tutorials and so on then you can get an NS. And if you get two, then you can be refused permission to sit your exams. If you don't like that then you should go to a university that agrees with your view....but that's how it works in Trinity.

LenovoUser wrote: »

In fact Denerick is correct and has the right approach - only dickheads have to attend every lecture, tutorial and laboratory, ask Stephen Hawking - he hardly ever attended anything at all :--)

You either have it ( like Denerick and Hawking) or you haven't it, sorry about that :-

An if a lecturer knows you have it , he won't sent an NS as in the case of Denerick .

Diickheads who have to attend everything , and swot, are known at Oxford as " Grey Men " - to be popular you must be naturally brilliant, or a good sport .

You were told of the rules at the start of the year. If you still choose not to attend lectures and tutorials after you've been told, then fair enough.....but you will only have yourself to blame if you get one or more NS's.

Boston

LenovoUser wrote: »

In fact Denerick is correct and has the right approach - only dickheads have to attend every lecture, tutorial and laboratory, ask Stephen Hawking - he hardly ever attended anything at all :--)

You either have it ( like Denerick and Hawking) or you haven't it, sorry about that :-

An if a lecturer knows you have it , he won't sent an NS as in the case of Denerick .

Diickheads who have to attend everything , and swot, are known at Oxford as " Grey Men " - to be popular you must be naturally brilliant, or a good sport .

17 The requirements for attendance at lectures and tutorials vary between the different
faculties, schools and departments. Attendance is compulsory for Junior Freshmen in all subjects.
The school, department or course office, whichever is relevant, publishes its requirements for
attendance at lectures and tutorials on notice-boards, and/or in handbooks and elsewhere, as
appropriate. For professional reasons lecture and tutorial attendance in all years is compulsory in
the School of Engineering, the School of Dental Science, the School of Medicine, the School of
Nursing and Midwifery, the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, for the B.Sc. in
Clinical Speech and Language Studies, the Bachelor in Education and the Bachelor in Acting
Studies. Attendance at practical classes is compulsory for students in all years of the
moderatorship in drama and theatre studies and drama studies two-subject moderatorship.

LenovoUser

Boston wrote: »

17 The requirements for attendance at lectures and tutorials vary between the different
faculties, schools and departments. Attendance is compulsory for Junior Freshmen in all subjects.
The school, department or course office, whichever is relevant, publishes its requirements for
attendance at lectures and tutorials on notice-boards, and/or in handbooks and elsewhere, as
appropriate. For professional reasons lecture and tutorial attendance in all years is compulsory in
the School of Engineering, the School of Dental Science, the School of Medicine, the School of
Nursing and Midwifery, the School of Pharmacy and Pharmaceutical Sciences, for the B.Sc. in
Clinical Speech and Language Studies, the Bachelor in Education and the Bachelor in Acting
Studies. Attendance at practical classes is compulsory for students in all years of the
moderatorship in drama and theatre studies and drama studies two-subject moderatorship.

TOO LATE - I didn't get an NS in Michhaelmas, hehehe

Also I am fully covered for my myriad absences with Medical Certificates for all my absences and it takes the High Court to overrule a GP's certificate.

When Arthur wittily suggested that the Department might think I was buying my GPs off with drink, I went to the College doctors and got it all c onfirmed, also to College Disability, to Declan Reilly, who is brilliant at his job.

Taking no chances, I also went to College Counselling who have accepted me as well.

And I didn't forget to call into my solicitor either :-)

One thing you will learn in life - fall out with anybody except your doctor and solicitor , thus you are prepared and backed up for all contingencies that may arise .

The sign of a good student is attendance, but that is not the sign of a brilliant student, who is usually not the best of attenders.

BTW Do ensure to have all assignments and as much coursework as possible in.

( The best programmer we have in JF just calls in now and then, haven't seen him for a month, not only a brilliant but a really nice guy too ) .

NB : Lecturers actually do make allowances for their most brilliant students regarding attendance , that is an ongoing unofficial practice not provided for in the College Calendar, for brilliant students do actually have an ongoing rapport with their lecturers.

Lecturers also have great time for students who ask meaningful and pertinent qiuestions at lectures , as it is clear that such students are actually interested in the sub ject, and lecturers do really like that .

There is so much going on in practice that is not provided for in the College calendar, no such document could p;ossibly provide for all the contingencies and circumstances of everyday College life, and if you are ever to be a lecturer , the Interview Board will actually look for this ability to bend, and to cope with real life , and with your ability to be able to make decisions for yourself and your class without having to reach for the College Calendar at every hand's turn.

You are expected to be able to exercise your discretion in all matters, to be able to think and act independently for the greater good and progress of your students and of your class .

Mark200

LenovoUser wrote: »

The sign of a good student is attendance, but that is not the sign of a brilliant student, who is usually not the best of attenders.

But that's usually because the brilliant students are doing something more worth while.

I'm sure Stephen Hawking wasn't falling down the steps of a pub drunk instead of going to lectures.

Boston

LenovoUser wrote: »

( The best programmer we have in JF just calls in now and then, haven't seen him for a month, not only a brilliant but a really nice guy too ) .

In all likelihood he'll be next year's JF class's best programmer as well.

LenovoUser

Mark200 wrote: »

But that's usually because the brilliant students are doing something more worth while.

I'm sure Stephen Hawking wasn't falling down the steps of a pub drunk instead of going to lectures.

Thank you Mark, that is a most enlightening contribution to the discussion in hand ! ( It shows where you are coming from ) .

" The Third Day he rose again " , hehehe

In fact , it happened at a session in the Pav on 5tth Dec last to celebrate getting through Michaemas without an NS , I am not as accustomed to drink as my fellows , nor , alas, young enough to take it in copious quantities anymore, Apologia Pro Vita Sua...

That said, young Hawking was indeed drunk on several occasions at Oxford, and took part fully in pub life, and in drinking sessions with his fellows in his rooms, he has also admitted this cheerfully, do not confuse academics with saints :-)

LenovoUser

Boston wrote: »

In all likelihood he'll be next year's JF class's best programmer as well.

Sadly, Yes, as he is a really nice guy who has always helped everybody he could in class

Boston

You talk an inordinate amount of bollix.

Fad

Boston wrote: »

You talk an inordinate amount of bollix.

Its absolutely stunning:)

LenovoUser

Boston wrote: »

You talk an inordinate amount of bollix.

And you need to become cultured , Trinity is above all is about that, sets us apart from the rest.

A Gentleman can fail his exams with dignity and he will care to remain a gentleman above all .

That said, it's better to pass, preferably with honours if you can, not only for you own sake but for the reputation of Trinity and your Department - and in CS we have a magnificent reputation to uphold and carry on . I am ever conscious of that .

The College calendar, Rules & Regs and all of that, are composed, as they can only be, with the general in mind, not the specific , no document could possibly do that .

But genuine respect for your lecturers and your peers will get you most of the way ;

And always of course, a rub of the green , that question you know backwards, shining up from the exam paper .

Fad

LenovoUser wrote: »

And you need to become cultured , Trinity is above all is about that, sets us apart from the rest.

If you wanna become cultured why are you doing CS:pac:

LenovoUser

Fad wrote: »

If you wanna become cultured why are you doing CS:pac:

A good question which I think should be thrown open to the floor...

Personally , I think that no matter what degree you are doing, the actual environment of Trinity should rub off , even on the most hardened cases .

And never forget how privileged you are to be here at all , so do try to stay here...

snappieT

LenovoUser wrote: »

The best programmer we have in JF just calls in now and then, haven't seen him for a month, not only a brilliant but a really nice guy too

best programmer ≠ best student.
I attend every lecture, haven't missed a single one this year. I have missed just one tutorial (for genuine medical reasons), and have submitted every ounce of coursework to date, each bit with my heart and soul poured into it.
It may be fine when you're a first year, but come final year every little bit counts. You'll soon see an emphasis on coursework already completed being re-examined. If you haven't done the coursework, you'll get burned.

LenovoUser

snappieT wrote: »

best programmer ≠ best student.
I attend every lecture, haven't missed a single one this year. I have missed just one tutorial (for genuine medical reasons), and have submitted every ounce of coursework to date, each bit with my heart and soul poured into it.It may be fine when you're a first year, but come final year every little bit counts. You'll soon see an emphasis on coursework already completed being re-examined. If you haven't done the coursework, you'll get burned.

Yes, Snappie , I alway have the picture of the marathon in front of me , it is important in First year to keep up with the front runners , be just about at the rear of the leading pack without burning yourself out, but conserving yourself and your energy all the time for years 2 , 3 - and then 4 when you have all the stamina you have conserved carefully for that fin al glorious burst.

it is useless, as I have seen happen in another excellent institution, to be way in the lead in the first year - and then fall back miserably in succeeding years , particularly the final year .

Burnout is a huge problem at third-level throughout the country , so you have to take a reasonable attitude toward your progress. The thing about Burnout , and I have observed it up closely , is that the student never knows when it's going to happen , and then doesn't know what happened when it does . .

There is little or no talk about Burnout at any level in Trinity - and understandably so .

Regarding first year , the exam results will be a nine-minute wonder. Ditto in second year .

Not so in third and fourth year :-)

( Arthur grimaced as he mentioned Suicide to me, that he has had to deal with as Tutor )

So a student can never be careful enough, and must try to keep mentally and physically in good shape right through. And even if you don't believe in religion, the comforts and teachings of all spiritualities are ther for you too .

NO STUDENT EVER HAS TO BE ALONE , REMEMBER THAT .

Fad

LenovoUser wrote: »

NO STUDENT EVER HAS TO BE ALONE , REMEMBER THAT.

Then why do you single yourself out by being such a complete (As Baza210 put it) twonk?

snappieT

I think I actually burned myself out this weekend. Thank god there's only one more week of lectures to sit through.

devinejay

This thread makes my brain hurt....

mathew

snappieT wrote: »

I think I actually burned myself out this weekend. Thank god there's only one more week of lectures to sit through.

Plusity one to that...

Its starting to get very laborious... Not long to go tho... I think I can cope with one more week...

Fad

mathew wrote: »

Its starting to get very laborious... Not long to go tho... I think I can cope with one more week...

Have fun in Schols afterwards:p

LenovoUser

devinejay wrote: »

This thread makes my brain hurt....

Somebody from Psychology could help...

devinejay

LenovoUser wrote: »

Somebody from Psychology could help...

Might try that, seeing all this thread has taught me is to stay away from CS, I've nothing against Psychology. Yet. :rolleyes:


(Ya know it's probably (definitely) wrong to form an opinion of a wholegroup of people based on one person, especially when they're on that amplifier of annoyances the internet but the evidence is so, damn, strong.....)

LenovoUser

Fad wrote: »

Have fun in Schols afterwards:p

Consolation for those who don't get schols - Trinity rooms are neither comfy, nor healthy , nor conducive to study at times.

The food is foul , I never eat in college . except when I'm in a rush

Better off with a nice apartment in Ballsbridge, for instance . The money does not come into it .

Denerick

I don't see why people got so offended by my decision to skip a lecture or tutorial here or there... The word 'stu' comes to mind :rolleyes:

mathew

LenovoUser wrote: »

Consolation for those who don't get schols - Trinity rooms are neither comfy, nor healthy , nor conducive to study at times.

The food is foul , I never eat in college . except when I'm in a rush

Better off with a nice apartment in Ballsbridge, for instance . The money does not come into it .

Take the money in lieu of both so, buy your own dinner and rent yourself a nice place...
You still get the binifit of free fees for the next 5 years... and of course the 254euro sallary..

Boston

Denerick wrote: »

I don't see why people got so offended by my decision to skip a lecture or tutorial here or there... The word 'stu' comes to mind :rolleyes:

No one cares if you skip a lecture. Your attitude towards a lecturer who reprimands you is the problem.

LenovoUser

mathew wrote: »

Take the money in lieu of both so, buy your own dinner and rent yourself a nice place...
You still get the binifit of free fees for the next 5 years... and of course the 254euro sallary..

yes , of course , good thinking .

LenovoUser

Boston wrote: »

No one cares if you skip a lecture. Your attitude towards a lecturer who reprimands you is the problem.

A lecturer's reprimand , like water off a duck's back -- but then it does depend on the stature of the lecturer concerned and the respect that lecturer has earned .