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Pacemaker for 2.59.59 Rotterdam Marathon
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27-02-2009 7:02pm#1
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Haile typically has a slight negative split (?20-30secs)
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I suppose everyone's different, so if time in the bank works for you go for it.
My experience was I wanted 89.30, but after 5k I was going a bit faster evry km, but it felt so natural I stayed with it and went through in high 88s. I wasn't consciously trying to put time in the bank as I was fairly sure I'd run a negative split, but it just felt so natural I stayed with that pace. However, it got quite tough then at 25k and so I ran a positive split 90.30ish second half.
Now I know what all the experienced heads meant when they were saying beforehand to 'hold back on the reins first half'. I had spoken to a fair few older fellows a few days before, all marathon vets who had done many good marathons and many more poor marathons. The common theme for all the good ones was that they felt like they were holding back first half.
This is what I didn't do, rather than holding back and consciously slowing down a tad to stay at 89.30-90.00 pace I stayed at the natural pace. I think I'd have had a much better 2nd half had I held back, but I'll never know. A minute slower doesn't seem like much, but it's 5 seconds a mile and I think it might just be enough to make the second half more comfortable.
It meant for me that 25-40k was uncomfortable and very worrying that I wouldn't make it, when based on the training is should have been relatively straightforward. It shouldn't have gotten uncomfortable until 35k.
In relation to the stats about neg/pos splits, I recommend going onto the results page of the Dublin marathon website and examine the splits of those between 2.55-2.59 and then those at 3.00-3.05. Much more even splits in the former I believe.
Another thing to look at, go on the Berlin results page and look at the times for the last 2.1k. Many people lost the sub 3 there. Not at 20 or 22miles, but in the last mile almost. It shouldn't be too hard to maintain pace or up it slightly for just 1 mile when you need a result, but if you've spent that extra bit of energy first half it might prove impossible. Some people who went through 40k in 2.50 didn't make it. You should be able to do 2.1k in 10mins, but not if you've no energy left I suppose.
It was horrible going past people at that stage who were just spent, you're looking at them saying 'come on, just 1km in 5mins, that's easier than your recovery run pace' and they just look back at you forlorn, shaking their head, knowing they can't do it. Don't be that person!!!0 -
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TheRoadRunner wrote: »I'm also looking into some of these 2 mile intervals myself so I'd be interested to hear any views on pace and interval. I was thinking 11 minutes with 2-3 minute recovery jog ?
I'm not sure to be honest - Tergat is the man for that question I think.
I'd say you wouldn't need to be much faster than your LT pace, so for you if 5.40 is your LT pace, 5.30-5.40 might be about right, depending on how many you are doing. If you are doing 6m at 5.40 pace (3x2m with no recovery) you shouldn't have too much problem with 4x2m at that pace with a short recovery (90secs?), or maybe you could do 2 or 3 reps at a slightly faster pace, 5.30 or so, when you might need a little more recovery.
You mentioned previously that you might stretch out the tempo run a bit. Tbh I wouldn't be going much longer than 40mins at LT pace (after all if it is your 1hour max pace, much longer than 40mins and you'll be racing). If you do want to do 50mins or more at a good pace, you might be better off slowing to marathon pace, and then building this up from 50mins to about 13-15miles. I'd do a fair bit of running at that pace an hour here and there, with maybe 1 13miler at that pace and 1 15miler...
In relation to pace of tempo runs, and like you said the terminology can be confusing here as we all call them different things, but yourself and Abhainn mentioned that you might have been doing these a bit too slow. But if aiming for a LT run, being close enough to 10m or half marathon race pace or the max pace you can hold for an hour, if you don't have a HR zone to guide this effort, I always try to imagine 2-3miles in, is this how I'd be feeling 2-3miles into a half marathon? I think 2-3miles into a race you'd know you were working fairly hard, but you'd still have something in the tank, so that might help to guide the pace/effort.0 -
Cheers. Yeah the intervals and recovery you mention sound about right. I'm thinking close to 11 minutes for 2 miles with 90 second recovery. Maybe start with 3 or 4 reps. I really should be using my HR monitor. I bought a fancy watch specifically for the HR functions and have probably used it once
I'm definitely going to do a 13 and 15 mile run at PMP. The first will be next weekend unless I decide to race a half marathon in Carlingford. I'm undecided about this. Either way next weekend I'll have a good idea where I'm at based on either run.0 -
I must admit that i have done all my speedwork on the threadmill. But as i hurt i stay going. It might be easier but it has given me great confidence and as we all know this is a mental thing.Racing Flat wrote: »Haile typically has a slight negative split (?20-30secs).
I suppose everyone's different, so if time in the bank works for you go for it.
My experience was I wanted 89.30, but after 5k I was going a bit faster evry km, but it felt so natural I stayed with it and went through in high 88s. I wasn't consciously trying to put time in the bank as I was fairly sure I'd run a negative split, but it just felt so natural I stayed with that pace. However, it got quite tough then at 25k and so I ran a positive split 90.30ish second half.
Now I know what all the experienced heads meant when they were saying beforehand to 'hold back on the reins first half'. I had spoken to a fair few older fellows a few days before, all marathon vets who had done many good marathons and many more poor marathons. The common theme for all the good ones was that they felt like they were holding back first half.
This is what I didn't do, rather than holding back and consciously slowing down a tad to stay at 89.30-90.00 pace I stayed at the natural pace. I think I'd have had a much better 2nd half had I held back, but I'll never know. A minute slower doesn't seem like much, but it's 5 seconds a mile and I think it might just be enough to make the second half more comfortable.
It meant for me that 25-40k was uncomfortable and very worrying that I wouldn't make it, when based on the training is should have been relatively straightforward. It shouldn't have gotten uncomfortable until 35k.
In relation to the stats about neg/pos splits, I recommend going onto the results page of the Dublin marathon website and examine the splits of those between 2.55-2.59 and then those at 3.00-3.05. Much more even splits in the former I believe.
Another thing to look at, go on the Berlin results page and look at the times for the last 2.1k. Many people lost the sub 3 there. Not at 20 or 22miles, but in the last mile almost. It shouldn't be too hard to maintain pace or up it slightly for just 1 mile when you need a result, but if you've spent that extra bit of energy first half it might prove impossible. Some people who went through 40k in 2.50 didn't make it. You should be able to do 2.1k in 10mins, but not if you've no energy left I suppose.
It was horrible going past people at that stage who were just spent, you're looking at them saying 'come on, just 1km in 5mins, that's easier than your recovery run pace' and they just look back at you forlorn, shaking their head, knowing they can't do it. Don't be that person!!!
I will wait to analyse my pace for rotterdam till after ballycotton but if i did 61.30 should i be going for 2.58 ??? Any advise ??
Really enjoyed your thread and i found it very interesting.
The one thing worries me is that not many runners do negative splits so i am still undecided.
What is your marathon PB ? 10km etc ?? Maybe i can gauge myself against yourself. I have more stamina than speed. I ran 3.11 in Berlin carrying 201ibs and am now 189ibs so I reckon i am strong. Ran 3.24 in paris carrying 212ibs. My biggest motivating factor is a lad in work has offered me a eat all i can lunch in Eddie Rockets if i break 3 hours. The decision is why should i go for 2.57 when i coulfd be comfortable going for 3 hours(assuming i lose 3-4 ibs more and stay injury free)
Anyone any ideas of stop eating rubbish ? I am on the energy bars and protein bars at the moment. I can only eat two of them so it aint bad.0 -
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