Rip Off Garage!

dak

My Local Mechanic didn't have time to fix my car , water pump was going and it was about time to replace the timing belt so I went to another local Garage ( North County Dublin) and asked to have the repair done plus a full service.

They replaced the water pump and timing belt on the engine ok and did the full service and I parted with €470 euro the other evening.

As I hadn't used them before I had a look under the bonnet the next day and found that while they had changed the oil they didn't change the oil or air filter. I went back in the next day and gave them a piece of my mind , got all sorts of excuses and did eventually get a new oil and air filter!

I would love to name the Garage but I expect I can't. Does anyone else ever check that they have actually got new oil ,filters etc after a full service ?

Darragh29

dak wrote: »

My Local Mechanic didn't have time to fix my car , water pump was going and it was about time to replace the timing belt so I went to another local Garage ( North County Dublin) and asked to have the repair done plus a full service.

They replaced the water pump and timing belt on the engine ok and did the full service and I parted with €470 euro the other evening.

As I hadn't used them before I had a look under the bonnet the next day and found that while they had changed the oil they didn't change the oil or air filter. I went back in the next day and gave them a piece of my mind , got all sorts of excuses and did eventually get a new oil and air filter!

I would love to name the Garage but I expect I can't. Does anyone else ever check that they have actually got new oil ,filters etc after a full service ?

Let's see if we can make sense of this.... You asked for a water pump and timing belt assembly to be replaced. Without knowing what type of car you have, it is hard to speculate as to whether 470 Euro is value for money, but it is a ball park price for this type of a transaction.

Did you ask for your oil, oil filter and air filter to be replaced???

Anan1

He asked for a full service, I think most people would understand that to mean oil & filter at a very minimum.

dak

Darragh29 wrote: »

Let's see if we can make sense of this.... You asked for a water pump and timing belt assembly to be replaced. Without knowing what type of car you have, it is hard to speculate as to whether 470 Euro is value for money, but it is a ball park price for this type of a transaction.

Did you ask for your oil, oil filter and air filter to be replaced???

Its an Opel Omega ! The Full Service price was on the wall as 170 and included oil and air filters etc . They just obviously thought I wouldn't check . When I paid for the repair I asked the question did they replace plugs, oil and air filter and was told that they did ! It was dark so I didn't check it until the next day!

Darragh29

Anan1 wrote: »

He asked for a full service, I think most people would understand that to mean oil & filter at a very minimum.

Apologies, I power read the OP... Dead right, that's a disgrace.

robtri

Anan1 wrote: »

He asked for a full service, I think most people would understand that to mean oil & filter at a very minimum.

Agreed, I don't think the money is the issue here, the Op asked for his pump and timing belt assembly and A Full Service, which by the sounds of it was not done....
In my old job, the days of company car, If I ever have to leave the company car into a garage I always mark the parts I expect to be changed with tipex and check afterwards, I have gone as far as numbering the tires and seeing if they rotate them when I specifically request it.. its amazing how many try to pull a fast one......

dak

Darragh29 wrote: »

Apologies, I power read the OP... Dead right, that's a disgrace.

It is a disgrace ... being told categorically that all was changed and it wasn't. Money wasn't the issue here ! I do mind however paying 170 for what would have been an expensive oil change if they had got away with it!

Darragh29

robtri wrote: »

Agreed, I don't think the money is the issue here, the Op asked for his pump and timing belt assembly and A Full Service, which by the sounds of it was not done....
In my old job, the days of company car, If I ever have to leave the company car into a garage I always mark the parts I expect to be changed with tipex and check afterwards, I have gone as far as numbering the tires and seeing if they rotate them when I specifically request it.. its amazing how many try to pull a fast one......

This kind of discussion has been done to death on this forum. I see this from a very narrow perspective, I've run my own indy garage and I had to deal with this cynicism on a daily basis. I ended up getting out of the business because I was literally sick of the constant cynicism and distrust that I experienced. And I went out of my way to add on value and freebies and vehicle reports that showed all that was checked and inspected and all that sort of stuff...

I have to say, I don't know what the answer is, somewhere there has to be a solution to this...

In the UK, there is the Good Garage Scheme...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

I'd love to see the good independent garages in this country coming together and putting something like this in place.

Moanin

dak wrote: »

My Local Mechanic didn't have time to fix my car , water pump was going

How did your mechanic know that the water pump was going?

dak

Moanin wrote: »

dak wrote: »

My Local Mechanic didn't have time to fix my car , water pump was going

How did your mechanic know that the water pump was going?

There was quite a bad knocking noise coming from the engine . He diagnosed it straight away and when I left the car in the other garage They rang me in half a hour with the same result after an inspection!

Moanin

Jez he's good. I didn't realise that you could diagnose when a water pump was on the way out.

Disgraceful re the service by the way. I would never check to see if filters etc were changed.

dak

Darragh29 wrote: »

This kind of discussion has been done to death on this forum. I see this from a very narrow perspective, I've run my own indy garage and I had to deal with this cynicism on a daily basis. I ended up getting out of the business because I was literally sick of the constant cynicism and distrust that I experienced. And I went out of my way to add on value and freebies and vehicle reports that showed all that was checked and inspected and all that sort of stuff...

I have to say, I don't know what the answer is, somewhere there has to be a solution to this...

In the UK, there is the Good Garage Scheme...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

I'd love to see the good independent garages in this country coming together and putting something like this in place.

Its a sad day when you have to get out of a business because of mistrust ! I have come across a few good garages and mechanics in my time but I have also had one run in with an SIMI Main Dealer who gave me back a fully serviced car with less than 1mm of brake pads ! Maybe garages should provide a free DVD showing the car being serviced ! Then there would be no trust issues over what was done and how long it took !

Darragh29

dak wrote: »

Its a sad day when you have to get out of a business because of mistrust ! I have come across a few good garages and mechanics in my time but I have also had one run in with an SIMI Main Dealer who gave me back a fully serviced car with less than 1mm of brake pads ! Maybe garages should provide a free DVD showing the car being serviced ! Then there would be no trust issues over what was done and how long it took !

I've said this before on the forum, but running an indy garage is an absolutely thankless job. I went into the industry with a view to raising standards and adding value and improving service standards, both in respect of the cuctomer and the technical aspect of the business, but I had the drive knocked out of me by people who were just full of conspiracy theories.

I said this before, but you have an 80/20 rule in a garage. 80% of people, terribly nice and easy to deal with and take up 20% of your time, 20% are c*nts that you cannot please no matter what you do for them, and these shower will take up 80% of your time.

I'd say my garage was the most transparent indy garage in the country. We had a policy of not just showing every customer their old parts, but sitting down with them and educating them as to what these parts do, why they wear and what we have done to resolve the issue.

We gave every customer a 2-3 page technical report after every service, we have a full NCT test lane, and we put every car through that procedure as part of a service, still we had people who thought that we were out to rip them off, because after all, "it is a garage"...

Mr Benevolent

The 80/20 rule holds for indy garages as well. 80% of them are great, efficent, respectful and knowledgable, and the other 20% make most of us just a bit paranoid. The Tippex idea is a great one imo.

spadder

Confab wrote: »

The 80/20 rule holds for indy garages as well. 80% of them are great, efficent, respectful and knowledgable, and the other 20% make most of us just a bit paranoid. The Tippex idea is a great one imo.

80/20 rule applies to every business dealing with the public

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

This kind of discussion has been done to death on this forum. I see this from a very narrow perspective, I've run my own indy garage and I had to deal with this cynicism on a daily basis. I ended up getting out of the business because I was literally sick of the constant cynicism and distrust that I experienced. And I went out of my way to add on value and freebies and vehicle reports that showed all that was checked and inspected and all that sort of stuff...

I have to say, I don't know what the answer is, somewhere there has to be a solution to this...

In the UK, there is the Good Garage Scheme...

http://www.goodgaragescheme.co.uk/

I'd love to see the good independent garages in this country coming together and putting something like this in place.

Hi Darragh,


I really wish you would not post here as though you represent the independent motor trade.

I deal with many small garages on a daily basis and the majority run smoothly without the problems you report with customers etc.

I am genuinely sorry your business didn’t work out for you but the majority of garages who run well and make a profit do not subscribe to the MO for running a garage that you have posted here many times. All the successful ones cant possibly be wrong while you are right.

Regards,

Mr Tim Buktoo

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've said this before on the forum, but running an indy garage is an absolutely thankless job. I went into the industry with a view to raising standards and adding value and improving service standards, both in respect of the cuctomer and the technical aspect of the business, but I had the drive knocked out of me by people who were just full of conspiracy theories.

I said this before, but you have an 80/20 rule in a garage. 80% of people, terribly nice and easy to deal with and take up 20% of your time, 20% are c*nts that you cannot please no matter what you do for them, and these shower will take up 80% of your time.

I'd say my garage was the most transparent indy garage in the country. We had a policy of not just showing every customer their old parts, but sitting down with them and educating them as to what these parts do, why they wear and what we have done to resolve the issue.

We gave every customer a 2-3 page technical report after every service, we have a full NCT test lane, and we put every car through that procedure as part of a service, still we had people who thought that we were out to rip them off, because after all, "it is a garage"...

Wheres your garage then?! sounds good

Mr Tim Buktoo

just saw it now. ur outta the biz

Max Factor

Darragh29 wrote: »

Let's see if we can make sense of this.... You asked for a water pump and timing belt assembly to be replaced. Without knowing what type of car you have, it is hard to speculate as to whether 470 Euro is value for money, but it is a ball park price for this type of a transaction.

Did you ask for your oil, oil filter and air filter to be replaced???

..

Darragh29 wrote: »

Apologies, I power read the OP... Dead right, that's a disgrace.

..

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Hi Darragh,


I really wish you would not post here as though you represent the independent motor trade.

I deal with many small garages on a daily basis and the majority run smoothly without the problems you report with customers etc.

I am genuinely sorry your business didn’t work out for you but the majority of garages who run well and make a profit do not subscribe to the MO for running a garage that you have posted here many times. All the successful ones cant possibly be wrong while you are right.

Regards,

Well said Mr Diagnostic. At best he knows a little about the industry and that is his own little island from what I have read.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Hi Darragh,


I really wish you would not post here as though you represent the independent motor trade.

I deal with many small garages on a daily basis and the majority run smoothly without the problems you report with customers etc.

I am genuinely sorry your business didn’t work out for you but the majority of garages who run well and make a profit do not subscribe to the MO for running a garage that you have posted here many times. All the successful ones cant possibly be wrong while you are right.

Regards,

I don't claim to represent the independent motor industry. There is clearly a problem however when so many people are so cynical of the whole motor industry in Ireland and in particular the independent end of the industry.

What other industry do you hear of people putting tippex on parts to make sure the person doing the work is actually changing the parts as they are being paid to change???

What other forum on boards to you see people looking for info on a business before getting into a transaction with them, like you see on this forum every day???

I get the impression from your involvement in the industry, that you offer some sort of mobile diagnostic service, to various garages. If this is the case, you are not dealing with the retailer, your in a business 2 business operation. When you've actually dealt with the public on a full-time basis, you might have a better understanding of what I'm talking about here.

Also, with regard to your suggestion that every other garage you know "is doing it right and I must have been doing it wrong", I can see how you can come to this conclusion...

I found that the reason other indy garage operators I know had less hassle than I had in the game, was because they simply didn't give a f*ck about their customer, they were completely indifferent to their customers needs. If the customer turns up mad at their reception, eff'ing and blinding because you have called them to say that the 450 Euro clutch replacement job has now turned into a 575 Euro clutch replacement job because their clutch fork is damaged or something along those lines, these guys don't give a f*ck. Their attitude is "I have your car and until you pay me what I want, you're not getting your car back"...

All the lads I know running indy garages, they get this day in day out but they don't give an RA, it's water off a ducks back to them. To me, this is not the basis for a positive customer relationship.

I'm not saying I have all the answers, as I've said above, but if you think that the degree of cynicism and distain towards the motor industry and the indy end of it in particular is normal, I'm afraid I don't agree.

Darragh29

Max Factor wrote: »

..

Well said Mr Diagnostic. At best he knows a little about the industry and that is his own little island from what I have read.

You can't have read much with 10 posts, you're not here a wet week.

Whenever I look at this forum, it is laced with pure cynicism. Is someone not entitled to question why all this cynicism is there and see what can be done to improve the experience that customers can expect???

The biggest problem that I think the industry has, is that there are too many people in it who are not up for change, it's more of the same, improve nothing, change nothing, just keep doing things the same auld way...

Voodoomelon

Darragh29 wrote: »

What other forum on boards to you see people looking for info on a business before getting into a transaction with them, like you see on this forum every day???

You should take a look on the Airsoft forum, it's worse than here for discussing retailers.

Mr.Diagnostic

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't claim to represent the independent motor industry.

I didn’t say that you have claimed this. What I said was that I thought it would be better if you didn’t post as though you represented the independent motor trade.
When you post the problems that garages have and how they feel plenty of retail customers reading here will likely get the impression that all garages share your outlook. That is in reality wrong.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I get the impression from your involvement in the industry, that you offer some sort of mobile diagnostic service, to various garages.

Your impression is wrong. You have no idea of how my business is structured or in fact what I actually do. I am very much in a position to comment on how the trade views thing as I hear about it on a daily basis, not just nationally but internationally.
You should join a few of the professional forums and read the threads on how hundreds of garages all over the world view things.
If you posted the same views on professional forums as you do here you would be slaughtered.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I found that the reason other indy garage operators I know had less hassle than I had in the game, was because they simply didn't give a f*ck about their customer, they were completely indifferent to their customers needs.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about.
There are of course a few garages who don’t respect customers but the vast majority do.
In view that is a disgraceful statement to make, especially since its so far removed from the truth.

Everyone has their own opinion and on a forum such as this everyone has a right to express their own view. I dont dispute your right to post yor opinions but I believe you have a duty to make it clear that your views are just that, yours, and not the views of others.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

I didn’t say that you have claimed this. What I said was that I thought it would be better if you didn’t post as though you represented the independent motor trade.
When you post the problems that garages have and how they feel plenty of retail customers reading here will likely get the impression that all garages share your outlook. That is in reality wrong.

In your opinion.

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Your impression is wrong. You have no idea of how my business is structured or in fact what I actually do. I am very much in a position to comment on how the trade views thing as I hear about it on a daily basis, not just nationally but internationally.
You should join a few of the professional forums and read the threads on how hundreds of garages all over the world view things.
If you posted the same views on professional forums as you do here you would be slaughtered.

I'm not discussing technical issues on this particular thread as the issue raised is not a technical issue but a customer service/trust issue, but if I wanted to, I could have any level of discussion with any person on a professional forum and I'd be as educated and as fluent in what I'm talking about as any other person on the forum...

If you read your own previous post, you would see that you have said, quote: "I deal with many small garages on a daily basis..."

My understanding of a statement like that, is that you are dealing with many garages on a daily basis. From this I assume, not unreasonably, that you provide a service to the many small garages that you have said that you deal with on a daily basis. When I ran an indy garage, I didn't deal with many small garages on a daily basis, I dealt with many retail customers on a daily basis. If I get the impression that you deal with many small garages on a daily basis as distinct from many retail customers on a daily basis, this is only because you have said in a previous post here: "I deal with many small garages on a daily basis..."

This just comes back to my point that it would appear that your primary experience is in dealing with business/trade customers and not retailer customers/the public. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, in fact I think that is a great idea, and it means that you don't have the hassle of dealing with the public, instead you are dealing with people who are educated in what you do. But you might not be in a position to identify with what I'm talking about here when you are not dealing with the public full time.

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about.
There are of course a few garages who don’t respect customers but the vast majority do.
In view that is a disgraceful statement to make, especially since its so far removed from the truth.

Everyone has their own opinion and on a forum such as this everyone has a right to express their own view. I dont dispute your right to post yor opinions but I believe you have a duty to make it clear that your views are just that, yours, and not the views of others.

It couldn't be more obvious that my views here are made in a personal capacity. I couldn't shake a stick at the amount of times I had a car brought to me from another garage for a second opinion and it turned out that the other garage were trying to screw their own customer. I disagree hugely that the "vast majority" of garages respect their customers. The evidence on this forum alone points to huge cynicism and distrust. I have personal experience of this, I'm not making it up, running an indy garage is a thankless job, I've been there, done it and can speak with regard to the experience that I have in that regard.

Look at what has happened here to the OP, parts charged for that were not replaced, labour charged for that wasn't done. There is something seriously wrong with an industry that has customers going in to garages with tippex on parts, just so they can check that work has been done, or as is the case here, the work inspected afterwards, to make sure that the work done is consistent with how it has been charged for...

Mr.Diagnostic

My last word on the subject.

Regardless of what you think the trades opinion is you have no mandate to post on behalf of the trade. As I said its your opinion, nothing more.
Your posts very often read as though you represent the trade. Even your reply here does. I really feel the need to stress that my experiences of the independent sectors outlook is at odds with yours.

Technical issues are not at issue. I never mentioned them on this thread. If you feel the need to claim great technical abilities then by all means do so. Its no skin off my nose and not a subject I have any interest in.

You are still jumping to conclusions about what I base my opinions on without having even the slightest idea of what I actually do.
You have gone to great lengths to defend why you jumped to conclusions. I would suggest it may be better to not jump to the conclusions rather than try to defend the reason why you did.

The reality as far as I am concerned, is that the readers of this thread should know that the majority in the trade do not regard customers the way you do.

Darragh29

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

My last word on the subject.

Regardless of what you think the trades opinion is you have no mandate to post on behalf of the trade. As I said its your opinion, nothing more.
Your posts very often read as though you represent the trade. Even your reply here does. I really feel the need to stress that my experiences of the independent sectors outlook is at odds with yours.

I never claimed to be representing anyone on here but myself. I could get into more discussion about this with you but to be honest, I couldn't be arsed.

dak

I think this thread has got side tracked ! My question is about garage / customer trust and specifically whether people generally check under the bonnet to see if the few items such as spark plugs, oil and air filters have been changed when pay for a full service .

In my case if I hadn't checked I would have parted with 170 euro for an oil change effectively .

I won't be using this garage again !

robtri

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've said this before on the forum, but running an indy garage is an absolutely thankless job. I went into the industry with a view to raising standards and adding value and improving service standards, both in respect of the cuctomer and the technical aspect of the business, but I had the drive knocked out of me by people who were just full of conspiracy theories.

I said this before, but you have an 80/20 rule in a garage. 80% of people, terribly nice and easy to deal with and take up 20% of your time, 20% are c*nts that you cannot please no matter what you do for them, and these shower will take up 80% of your time.

I'd say my garage was the most transparent indy garage in the country. We had a policy of not just showing every customer their old parts, but sitting down with them and educating them as to what these parts do, why they wear and what we have done to resolve the issue.

We gave every customer a 2-3 page technical report after every service, we have a full NCT test lane, and we put every car through that procedure as part of a service, still we had people who thought that we were out to rip them off, because after all, "it is a garage"...

Most jobs are thankless, why should yours be any different, no offence I find it very hard you went into business to raise standards, lik everyone you went into business for money.

And like customers, garages are the same, 80% are very good like the yours seems to be and 20% are crap and will rip you off. So customers have the right to check and question , what work has been done and whats been charged for.

Hellrazer

Just going to give my 2 cent on this.

The sheer amount of mistrust of dealers by the public has the industry the way it is.

My advice--ask for the old parts back.We do it here all the time and it does away with the mistrust from the public.

As for the OPs question regarding the service that was supposedly carried out-thats a disgrace.To stop it happening in the future either mark your old parts with a ultraviolet marker or ask for the old stuff back.

I dont know why every garage doesnt offer to keep parts for inspection by suspicious customers.It would solve a lot of the mistrust.

Drummerboy08

Hellrazer wrote: »

Just going to give my 2 cent on this.

The sheer amount of mistrust of dealers by the public has the industry the way it is.

My advice--ask for the old parts back.We do it here all the time and it does away with the mistrust from the public.

As for the OPs question regarding the service that was supposedly carried out-thats a disgrace.To stop it happening in the future either mark your old parts with a ultraviolet marker or ask for the old stuff back.

I dont know why every garage doesnt offer to keep parts for inspection by suspicious customers.It would solve a lot of the mistrust.

Thats only part of the problem.

A bigger one is the fact that the majority of motorists (mainly men i'll admit) think they Know better when it comes to cars. If you say black, they will say white. I've experienced it from the sales side, and to a degree the parts side. I've also seen it on here. People who have an "interest" in cars thinking that they know better than the people who sell them, service them, and make their living from them everyday of the week.

Bottom line is - unless you are a mechanic, work in the trade, or are in some other way directly involved in the motor industry, chances are someone who is in the trade WILL KNOW BETTER than you.

For some reason this phenomenon is only seen when it comes to cars.

Darragh29

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Thats only part of the problem.

A bigger one is the fact that the majority of motorists (mainly men i'll admit) think they Know better when it comes to cars. If you say black, they will say white. I've experienced it from the sales side, and to a degree the parts side. I've also seen it on here. People who have an "interest" in cars thinking that they know better than the people who sell them, service them, and make their living from them everyday of the week.

Bottom line is - unless you are a mechanic, work in the trade, or are in some other way directly involved in the motor industry, chances are someone who is in the trade WILL KNOW BETTER than you.

For some reason this phenomenon is only seen when it comes to cars.

This is very true. I've done work for female customers before and if say for example I service the car before an NCT and it needs rear brake shoes and wheel cylinders to pass the test, if I call her and tell her this, it would not be unusual to have her boyfriend turning up at the garage later that day, wanting to see exactly what parts need to be changed and why they need to be changed. He'll come in with a false persona, usually acting all big and hard and will act as if he knows what he's talking about when in fact the parts your showing him could be off any car, he hasn't a clue what you are showing him but the act goes on all the same...

Darragh29

robtri wrote: »

Most jobs are thankless, why should yours be any different, no offence I find it very hard you went into business to raise standards, lik everyone you went into business for money.

And like customers, garages are the same, 80% are very good like the yours seems to be and 20% are crap and will rip you off. So customers have the right to check and question , what work has been done and whats been charged for.

My current job is not thankless, it pays me about 2-3 times what I paid myself when running an independent garage for around 2-5% of the hassle and crap that I had with that business.

Esel

Max Factor wrote: »

Well said Mr Diagnostic. At best he knows a little about the industry and that is his own little island from what I have read.

Darragh29 wrote: »

You can't have read much with 10 posts, you're not here a wet week.

Well said, Darragh.