Ex has taken baby to UK :(

LegacyUser

My ex has disappeared to the uk with our baby boy. I don't have guardianship rights yet (my own fault, I didn't push for it because I thought she'd agree to sign the joint guardianship form). Legally I have no rights. This backward country won't recognise my natural fatherhood of my baby boy and grant me automatic guardianship, which means I can't bring my baby boy back here.

I'm a good dad. I've videos of him giggling away on my phone. I'm weeping looking at them. He's gone 2 weeks now. I'm an empty shell without him. He turns 1 soon. I've issued a summons for guardianship to the ex's solicitors as I don't know exactly where she's gone. Her parents support her, and they're tools, and I see red even thinking about them.

I want my boy back. The judge commended me for not pushing guardianship. I thought the gesture would be appreciated. I thought I was laying a foundation of trust between me and the ex. We'd never be friends but we have a child. I've paid child support from day one. I've offered to be there anytime, any day, not just cos it's the right thing to do, but because I love him so much it makes my heart bleed.

Now he's gone. That b1tch has taken him because she knew that if I didn't get more access than the paltry 4 hours a WEEK I was getting from her, I was going to apply for more. Of course I was. He has fun around me, he loves me...or loved. He's gone, and he probably forgets me.

I want to cry. I want to scream. I want to run straight to her parents' house, tear the doors down and find out my boy's location no matter what it takes or who it hurts. It's not right.

We claim to live in a society suffering from fatherly abandonment. Well why the hell doesn't the government change the constitution to automatically grant guardianship to men like me? My name's on the birth cert. I pay child support. If I stopped, I'd go to jail. But...she...can disappear off the face of the planet without even a warning and not a thing is done about it.

According to the law, I must have...her...present in court in order to apply for guardianship. So if she doesn't show...and most likely, she won't...that means I'm screwed. She gets the money (waaaaay above the norm) and I don't get a single sight, sound, touch, hug off my little baby boy.

I want to die. I want to kill. This is destroying me. All I see is his face. My eyes burn with tears. The law is against me: a father crying out for fairness, rightness. He's illegitimate in their Christian-brainwashed eyes. Therefore, so is my love for him. So is my bond with him.

What can I do? Please help.

LegacyUser

My friend I fully feel your pain. I know what its like to have an ex decide she doesn't want you to see your children on a whim. I wish I could help you but all I can do is share your pain.

MissHoneyBun

OP I'm sorry I can't think of any constructive advice to give to you at this late hour. I guess because I value my own daddy so much I just felt compelled to say something after reading your post, which is heartbreaking. All I can say is I sympathise with you and I hope you find the strength to deal with this difficult situation. Best wishes to you and your little boy x

sickpuppy32

you do have rights due to the Mr G case ( or was it M?) where the exact same thing happened, go to your solicitor immediately and apply to the court for rights, under european law you can get her to come back witht he child. PM me and sure we can talk and i'll tell you what i know

minidazzler

OP, as you are aware, you cannot go and do anything Rash, don't go beating down doors, don't do anything that might let her say you are unstable, I know you are angry now, but as soon as she is back, (tell people you know who live near her parents to keep an eye out) Get a summons sent to her.

She sounds like a cnut of the highest order, but still, you have to grin and bear it until you can get this into court.


I know nothing about law, but do you really have no rights over this child? That sounds rather suspect to me!!!

sickpuppy32

did you sign the papers for your kids passport - if you didn't then she took the child out of the country illegally - ( even if you did, she still needed your permission) get on to mary banotti MEP - she got the law changed - thankfully we are in the EU and us single dads have some rights because of it. If this is the case report the child as "abucted by parent" to the gardai and to the english police. Also get yourself a good solicitor who specialises in theses cases - most solicitors haven't a clue
get on to ray kelly at the single fathers support group in tallaght
get onto fathers for justice in the uk as well.

sickpuppy32

"According to the law, I must have...her...present in court in order to apply for guardianship. So if she doesn't show...and most likely, she won't...that means I'm screwed. She gets the money (waaaaay above the norm) and I don't get a single sight, sound, touch, hug off my little baby boy."

stop all payments now if you haven't already - also apply for joint custody as she has proven herself to be a bad parent - sure apply for full custody while your at it - you have rights but most impotantly your child has rights - a right to a father

c4cat

If you need to trace your Child then its easy to do, first stop yr child support payments Contact the UK Child Support Agency whose Job is to track down Absentee fathers to make them pay child support to mothers claiming benefit. They will be real happy that you make their job easy for them. then go through the UK courts to claim yr parental rights. She can run but can not hide in the UK The UK Child support agency will only need a copy of the childs birth cert to assertain if you have a responsibility to the child and if your ex is on any UK benefit they expect your contribution financially. If she then refuese access to the child you will find the UK courts much more father friendly to your situation

imissmyson wrote: »

My ex has disappeared to the uk with our baby boy. I don't have guardianship rights yet (my own fault, I didn't push for it because I thought she'd agree to sign the joint guardianship form). Legally I have no rights. This backward country won't recognise my natural fatherhood of my baby boy and grant me automatic guardianship, which means I can't bring my baby boy back here.

I'm a good dad. I've videos of him giggling away on my phone. I'm weeping looking at them. He's gone 2 weeks now. I'm an empty shell without him. He turns 1 soon. I've issued a summons for guardianship to the ex's solicitors as I don't know exactly where she's gone. Her parents support her, and they're tools, and I see red even thinking about them.

I want my boy back. The judge commended me for not pushing guardianship. I thought the gesture would be appreciated. I thought I was laying a foundation of trust between me and the ex. We'd never be friends but we have a child. I've paid child support from day one. I've offered to be there anytime, any day, not just cos it's the right thing to do, but because I love him so much it makes my heart bleed.

Now he's gone. That b1tch has taken him because she knew that if I didn't get more access than the paltry 4 hours a WEEK I was getting from her, I was going to apply for more. Of course I was. He has fun around me, he loves me...or loved. He's gone, and he probably forgets me.

I want to cry. I want to scream. I want to run straight to her parents' house, tear the doors down and find out my boy's location no matter what it takes or who it hurts. It's not right.

We claim to live in a society suffering from fatherly abandonment. Well why the hell doesn't the government change the constitution to automatically grant guardianship to men like me? My name's on the birth cert. I pay child support. If I stopped, I'd go to jail. But...she...can disappear off the face of the planet without even a warning and not a thing is done about it.

According to the law, I must have...her...present in court in order to apply for guardianship. So if she doesn't show...and most likely, she won't...that means I'm screwed. She gets the money (waaaaay above the norm) and I don't get a single sight, sound, touch, hug off my little baby boy.

I want to die. I want to kill. This is destroying me. All I see is his face. My eyes burn with tears. The law is against me: a father crying out for fairness, rightness. He's illegitimate in their Christian-brainwashed eyes. Therefore, so is my love for him. So is my bond with him.

What can I do? Please help.

tbh

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

stop all payments now if you haven't already -

don't. That'll only punish your child. I wish you the best of luck.

helimachoptor

tbh wrote: »

don't. That'll only punish your child. I wish you the best of luck.

I'm undecided on this, If you stop payments it will impact the child 100% but also your ex will probably get in contact to see where the money is.

If it was me, I would stop the money for a month and see if she crawls out of the woodwork.

whitelightrider

Contact your solicitor before stopping the payments. You dont want to stop the payments and then find out that it has hampered any chance of you getting custody or access to your son.

DinoBot

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

did you sign the papers for your kids passport - if you didn't then she took the child out of the country illegally - ( even if you did, she still needed your permission) get on to mary banotti MEP - she got the law changed - thankfully we are in the EU and us single dads have some rights because of it. If this is the case report the child as "abucted by parent" to the gardai and to the english police. Also get yourself a good solicitor who specialises in theses cases - most solicitors haven't a clue
get on to ray kelly at the single fathers support group in tallaght
get onto fathers for justice in the uk as well.

If you dont have guardianship you have no rights. If your unmarried in Ireland you must apply for this, being on the birth cert is not enough. She was under no legal requirement to inform him of her move.

OP:
The good thing is if you had been making regular payments and contact I think that will stand to you applying now. You need legal advice. As others have said do nothing until you get advice. It can get very complicated very quick and the last thing you want now is for something you do to hinder you in anyway.

Stay strong !

Wibbs

DinoBot wrote: »

The good thing is if you had been making regular payments and contact I think that will stand to you applying now. You need legal advice. As others have said do nothing until you get advice. It can get very complicated very quick and the last thing you want now is for something you do to hinder you in anyway.

Really good advice there. Get a solicitor well versed and practiced in this stuff, before cutting payments. Beyond punishing the child, it may impact any claim you have to the lad.

paperclip2

Op these are some websites on UK organisations dealing with child abduction. The might give you somewhere to start in the UK.

Reunite: http://www.reunite.org/

Parents and Abducted Children Together: http://www.pact-online.org/html/about_pact.html

I really hope you get somewhere with this. Your ex clearly doesn't have a clue how important and precious it is to have a loving Dad involved in a childs life.

mirwillbeback

I wish you well my friend, can only hope all works out as well as can be.

andrewh5

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

you do have rights due to the Mr G case ( or was it M?) where the exact same thing happened, go to your solicitor immediately and apply to the court for rights, under european law you can get her to come back witht he child. PM me and sure we can talk and i'll tell you what i know

+1. She CAN be made to return to a hearing in an Irish court as the above case proved.

RIRI

OP - your story is heartbreaking, I;m so sorry to hear you and your son are in this situation. I have no advice to offer but I wish you every sucess in pursuing your ex.

yellowcurl

RIRI wrote: »

OP - your story is heartbreaking, I;m so sorry to hear you and your son are in this situation. I have no advice to offer but I wish you every sucess in pursuing your ex.

+1

The Corinthian

tbh wrote: »

don't. That'll only punish your child.

The child is already being punished. If a temporary cessation of payments brings her out of the woodwork and reunites father and son, then this would be by far the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately, in a belligerent relationship between parents, children do suffer, but the reality is that in avoiding such short term suffering, a child can end up suffering far more in the long run.

Quick question: was access by private agreement or court ordered? If the latter, she would be in breach of this and you could (in theory, although being Ireland I doubt it) seek a bench warrant (after perusing the matter through the Irish courts). Is maintenance court ordered?

Given this, I would agree with calls to discuss this with a solicitor as he may do himself more damage by ceasing payments than good, or he can get advice on how to cover himself if he does. Additionally, ceasing payments does not guarantee any resolution. She may have already decided to forgo maintenance as part of a clean break - as pursuing it would result in her having to disclose an address with which legal action can be carried out against her.

Either way, I wish the OP the best.

themadchef

Really sad story, and i know it's not a story to you... it was a heart wrenching read.

As a mother i think what she is doing is wrong...what ever her reasons. She chose to have this child with you, and even if she hates the ground you walk on should respect the fact that you are this child's father.

Why do fathers have such little rights in this country if they are unmarried?Does it make you less of a parent, do you love the child any less? No. So In this case not only is the father being punished but so is the child. Being denied the love of your Dad...i can't imagine it.

Fight, tooth and nail...but within the law. Don't let your hatred for her make you impulsive and cause you to do things or say things you later regret.

There must be hundreds of Dads in your situation, is there a group you can contact for advice?

Very best of luck OP

LegacyUser

why did you break up with the mother? why did she chose to go to the UK? family or relatives there?

We don't know the full story here, but I'd say, for the sake of the child, best way would be trying to contact the mother and try to work it out for you to be able to see your child. You could even have a mediator in the family..

Sleepy

Nothing constructive to offer but I've great sympathy for you OP.

Hope it works out.

stovelid

That's desperate, OP. When you think of the deadbeat dads out there, the thought of being punished when you want to be a good dad makes my blood boil. I really hope things work out.

andrewh5

themadchef wrote: »

Why do fathers have such little rights in this country if they are unmarried?

Not just here though. Unmarried fathers in the UK also have no automatic rights and have to apply to the courts for them.

sickpuppy32

DinoBot wrote: »

If you dont have guardianship you have no rights. If your unmarried in Ireland you must apply for this, being on the birth cert is not enough. She was under no legal requirement to inform him of her move.

!

if the irish government had been left to their own devices, you'd be right but thanks to the EU and ,mary Banotti, things have changed - iN the Mr G case last year the circumstances where exactly the same and he won his case. If you want to take your child out of the country, the shild needs a passport and the passport application requires both parent signatures ( irrespective of whether your a guardian or not). The only case that requirment is moot is if the mum swares a written oath saying the father is uncontactable. If she did this in this case then she has broken the law.
good luck man - i'm a single dad too but i'm lucky to have joint custody of my child - as my mum would say " ther go I but for the grace of god"

sickpuppy32

themadchef wrote: »

Really sad story, and i know it's not a story to you... it was a heart wrenching read.

As a mother i think what she is doing is wrong...what ever her reasons. She chose to have this child with you, and even if she hates the ground you walk on should respect the fact that you are this child's father.

Why do fathers have such little rights in this country if they are unmarried?Does it make you less of a parent, do you love the child any less? No. So In this case not only is the father being punished but so is the child. Being denied the love of your Dad...i can't imagine it.

nice to hear you say this , too often equal rights for fathers movement is portrayed as been mysoginist and as wanting to take away mother rights - it isn;t and it doesn't .

sickpuppy32

stovelid wrote: »

That's desperate, OP. When you think of the deadbeat dads out there, the thought of being punished when you want to be a good dad makes my blood boil. I really hope things work out.

actually statistics show that only 20% of single fathers are deadbeat dads so to speak

sickpuppy32

andrewh5 wrote: »

Not just here though. Unmarried fathers in the UK also have no automatic rights and have to apply to the courts for them.

more rights than here though

Darthhoob

i really really feel for you hun x

my son's dad is one who abandoned him, and was violent (he told me to drown out baby when he was 1 week old). i dont see him, i tried but he didn't want to know and we have moved on. because of this i feel VERY angry when some women start being selfish and take their children away from dad who DO care and want to be a part of their lives. i actually have more males friends who have had this happen to them than female friends who have been abandoned. ofc that is my own little circle of friends but it does open my eyes to how wrong things are.

andrewh5

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

actually statistics show that only 20% of single fathers are deadbeat dads so to speak

True but that doesn't stop feminists, governments and welfare agencies throwing the term about loosly though. The sad fact is that all the above still treat fathers as an afterthought with no importance whatsoever apart from coughing up the maintenance on time.

sickpuppy32

The Irish Centre for Parentally Abducted Children is a charity based in Dublin, offering practical advice and support to parents whose children have been abducted, or who fear their children may be abducted to another country.

]ICPAC operates a telephone help line where parents and carers can get practical advice and support from persons experienced in dealing with these cases. ICPAC also has an extensive network of contacts worldwide and works closely with reunite – International Child Abduction Centre, based in London, and ICMEC, the International Centre for Missing and Exploited Children. ICPAC is a member of the European Network on Parental Child Abduction.

Although ICPAC cannot give legal advice, we can put you in touch with organisations, such as reunite in the UK, who provide a list of solicitors in different countries experienced in international child abduction. We are currently preparing a lawyers’ listing for Ireland.[/FONT]

ICPAC also provides an information pack, which sets out the steps you need to take to prevent abduction taking place, and advises on what to do if your child has been abducted.[/FONT]

The pack costs €7.00. Paid to ICPAC, St Ann’s Parish Centre, Molesworth Place, Dublin 2.]
[
Contact numbers: 01 6620667 - Fax: 01 6625132


thought this might help

pandas

your not screwed man!! Irish law is backwards but exhaust it up to the Supreme Court and then utilise EU law and you should have your baby back or at least shared custody!!

Courts wont stand for it!! you'll get him back!!! i really hope you do she sounds like a git plus he's very lucky to have a father like you!!!

sickpuppy32

andrewh5 wrote: »

True but that doesn't stop feminists, governments and welfare agencies throwing the term about loosly though. The sad fact is that all the above still treat fathers as an afterthought with no importance whatsoever apart from coughing up the maintenance on time.

my mum was a feminist activist, true feminism is about equality and its why i campaign for fathers rights

stovelid

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

actually statistics show that only 20% of single fathers are deadbeat dads so to speak

Aye, that's why I said when you think of the deadbeat dads out there, instead of when you think of the overwhelming majority of men who are deadbeat dads, for example.

The Corinthian

pandas wrote: »

your not screwed man!! Irish law is backwards but exhaust it up to the Supreme Court and then utilise EU law and you should have your baby back or at least shared custody!!

Courts wont stand for it!! you'll get him back!!! i really hope you do she sounds like a git plus he's very lucky to have a father like you!!!

It's very easy to suggest to someone that they should "exhaust it up to the Supreme Court and then utilise EU law", but other than the cost of such determination (which will cripple a man if he can even raise the money), the sheer emotional drain of it can be devastating.

And even if he 'wins', what then? The belligerence between the parents does not simply end there and he will be faced with decades of obstruction and counter suits.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Not a pretty situation for anyone to be in.

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

my mum was a feminist activist, true feminism is about equality and its why i campaign for fathers rights

Arguing what a true Feminist is, is a bit like arguing what denomination of Christianity is the true one.

glezo

imissmyson wrote: »

I pay child support. If I stopped, I'd go to jail.
quote]

reading your thread my heart is breaking for you, i left my kids father 2 years ago and he has not seen them since and only lives 5 min drive away even doh i told him to vist at xmas/ birthdays but no avail. then to see the pain your in cause you cant see your boy:(

reason i picked this quote out is because, even doh i have gone to court got maintance since last may i have not received a penny yet from him i have 3 warrents out for his arrest and the 4th in line and still the law is to lazy to be bother to do the paper work that involved..

so what im saying is that if you do stop the maintance your paying you will not go to jail, and if your guards are anyways different where your from you will get warning first but i would think not any different than here in sligo

King of Kings

dude - i had to look it this years ago as my ex threatened to move aboard.
nothing ever came of it cos I warned her I'd fight her through the courts.

My heart goes to you

My only advice is that when you engage a solicitor make sure that they specialise in family law.
Too many of them will take the case , with sod all experience , fight it and lose.
You need to get somebody who knows their family law and has experience in it,

on another front - call around to her parents and be calm but tell them how much your are hurting and remind them how a child is better off with both parents.
Chances are they're from an older generation who believe this. - they could be key to persuading her to come home.

LegacyUser

The Corinthian wrote: »

It's very easy to suggest to someone that they should "exhaust it up to the Supreme Court and then utilise EU law", but other than the cost of such determination (which will cripple a man if he can even raise the money), the sheer emotional drain of it can be devastating.

ya i see what your saying but if he wants his child back... plus there is eu legislation to prevent child kidnapping and that is essentially what she has done, not under irish law because you dont really have any rights to the child under irish law, but you do in eu circles and she has kidnapped him!

i am nearly certain family law matters especially ones like this are dealt with speedily enough for obvious reasons but i am not certain on that!

matters between the two aren't exactly going to be cordial now anyway either!!!

Klingon Hamlet

King of Kings wrote: »

call around to her parents and be calm but tell them how much your are hurting and remind them how a child is better off with both parents.
Chances are they're from an older generation who believe this. - they could be key to persuading her to come home.

Her parents are nuts (I've decided not to unregistered this time). Her mam is off the wall, mad, and her dad, well he's behind it too, cos she's staying with his dad.

If I go over there it'll end up nasty, no doubt about it.

I've been in touch with Dept of Justice. They're going to use the Hague Convention to find my boy. How thorough and speedy is anyone's guess, without an address.

I've represented myself in court so far. This time I'm taking no chances. How do I contact that MEP?

Thanks for all your support!

sickpuppy32

The Corinthian wrote: »

Arguing what a true Feminist is, is a bit like arguing what denomination of Christianity is the true one.

true!:D

sickpuppy32

mary banotti - shes retired now but she's still heavily involved with child aduction cases - got this off her website
Home Address

8, Cambridge Avenue,
Ringsend,
Dublin 4
[
Ph. [/I]01-6680341

EMAIL="banotti@indigo.ie"]mbanotti@gmail.com

Klingon Hamlet

sickpuppy32 wrote: »

did you sign the papers for your kids passport - if you didn't then she took the child out of the country illegally - ( even if you did, she still needed your permission) get on to mary banotti MEP - she got the law changed - thankfully we are in the EU and us single dads have some rights because of it. If this is the case report the child as "abucted by parent" to the gardai and to the english police. Also get yourself a good solicitor who specialises in theses cases - most solicitors haven't a clue
get on to ray kelly at the single fathers support group in tallaght
get onto fathers for justice in the uk as well.

I've been speaking with Ray Kelly---he's helped me with the dept of justice side of things. The only problem is that the gardai won't do anything without guardianship---hopefully the dept of justice will get on their case about it.

Thanks man.

sickpuppy32

maght be worth a try to get on to the british embassy as well- inform their police?
glad to help - us single dads have to stick together

The Corinthian

Unregistered wrote: »

i am nearly certain family law matters especially ones like this are dealt with speedily enough for obvious reasons but i am not certain on that!

If you have guardianship they are pretty speedy. If not, while the G case changed the landscape so as to allow a father without guardianship rights, they are not guaranteed.

My recollection of the G case was that the father was the primary child carer for much of the child's life and this was a factor involved in the decision. The OP has only four hours access per week, and this could be used against him in court. Either way, it is more than likely that this would involve potentially contested court action.