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Whats my muscle fiber type!

  • 25-02-2009 2:30pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭


    Vertical Jump Test at Home


    This test is designed to measure your explosive leg lower. All you need is a a high wall, such as the outside of a building, and a bit of room so you can jump and land safely.

    Start by standing side on to a wall and reach up as high as you can with the hand closest to the wall. Make note of how high you can reach. This is called the standing reach height. Then stand a little away from the wall, and jump high as possible using both arms and legs to assist in projecting the body upwards. Attempt to touch the wall at the highest point of the jump. Make note of where you touched the wall at the height of the jump. Measure the distance between the standing reach height and the maximum jump height, and that is your result.

    You can assist in recording your score by holding a piece of chalk in your had and using it to mark the wall. If the wall already has horizontal lines, such as a brick wall, it will be easier to mark your jump height. Have as many attempts as you need to get the best possible score. Practice your technique, as the jump height can be affected by how much you bend your knees before jumping, and the effective use of the arms.


    How did you go?

    Compare your results to the table below. Remember, these scores are based on doing the tests as described, and may not be accurate if the test is modified at all. Don't worry too much about how you rate - just try and improve your own score.

    See the end of this page for your score.

    http://www.topendsports.com/testing/tests/home-vertical-jump.htm
    and here
    http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/VerticalJump.html


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    In real English it's spelled F I B R E.

    And that test isn't for muscle fibre type, only a biopsy can test that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    I know all about the "biopsy" and this test does the same thing.
    Why not try it out?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    But one can increase their VJ thru training....

    And if VJ measures fibre type, then by increasing your VJ you must also increase your VJ "fibres" - ie the "fast twitch" ones???????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    It doesn't do the same thing. There are too many factors at play. Flexibility, technique, leverage, muscle mass, bodyweight, strength....

    It's a test i've done many times and I've never had anyone tell me my dark meat ratio off it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,549 ✭✭✭✭cowzerp


    Hanley wrote: »
    But one can increase their VJ thru training....

    And if VJ measures fibre type, then by increasing your VJ you must also increase your VJ "fibres" - ie the "fast twitch" ones???????

    well spotted Hanley
    Exactly why this test is not equal to a biopsy, Its purely only an indicator of fibre type..

    Rush Boxing club and Rush Martial Arts head coach.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    But one can increase their VJ thru training....

    And if VJ measures fibre type, then by increasing your VJ you must also increase your VJ "fibres" - ie the "fast twitch" ones???????
    It's a standard test done throughout the world by coaches.
    Your question is to basic to answer.And i feel you knwo the answer to your own question.

    Do the test you might be suprised.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    There are lots of tests people could do. VJ, broad jump, sprint tests etc. but these would tell you next to nothing except for the speeds/times/distances which are the actual goal of the test. You might stand there and say "Hmmm, I reckon this guy might have some fast twitch fibres", but you cannot find that out by viewing these tests. And it doesn't matter to me and I can't think of anyone I know who coaches who gives a hoot about fast twitch fibres. Leave that for the academic discussions and for the guys in the labs. I'll read about it later. Right now is the guy I'm looking at getting faster/stronger is th only thing I care about.

    If you want my real opinion, most people shouldn't bother their hole wondering how many fast twitch fibres they have. If you get stronger and faster, then you must be increasing them and you don't need to know. It's another thing that sounds awesome when we hear the commentators talking about it in the Olympics but doesn't transfer over to real training. In simple terms, stimulation of fast twitch fibres is lifting heavier stuff so that you can lift even more heavy stuff and make yourself go faster, higher and quicker.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    cowzerp wrote: »
    well spotted Hanley
    Exactly why this test is not equal to a biopsy, Its purely only an indicator of fibre type..

    It was too easy....
    It's a standard test done throughout the world by coaches.
    Your question is to basic to answer.And i feel you knwo the answer to your own question.

    Do the test you might be suprised.

    Answer it so....

    Without training at all for it, and without warm up, I can three step jump over something about 2-3 inches above bellybutton height. I'm 5'10 so I guess that's about 35-40 inches. Not a vertical jump, but decent enoguh for someone who weighs 110kg I woulda thought.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Hanley wrote: »
    Without training at all for it, and without warm up, I can three step jump over something about 2-3 inches above bellybutton height. I'm 5'10 so I guess that's about 35-40 inches. Not a vertical jump, but decent enoguh for someone who weighs 110kg I woulda thought.
    Are you extended though? It sounds like you're describing a box jump type leap? My box jump is way above my VJ, that's standard as the VJ measures force production through triple extension: ankle, knee, hip.

    Weighlifters usually have large VJs. Don't know about PLers though but I'd imagine it'd be quite high.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 38 duffman08


    interesting i'm going to do that now and will post my result!!!


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Roper wrote: »
    Are you extended though? It sounds like you're describing a box jump type leap? My box jump is way above my VJ, that's standard as the VJ measures force production through triple extension: ankle, knee, hip.

    Weighlifters usually have large VJs. Don't know about PLers though but I'd imagine it'd be quite high.

    Tis a box jump!

    Might check VJ at some stage over the next couple of weeks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭slemons


    Vertical jump takes weight into account in a big way.
    Heavier guys wont do as well in it, where shot putters etc are notoriously good at single long(horizontal) jumps


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    roper wrote:
    It doesn't do the same thing. There are too many factors at play. Flexibility, technique, leverage, muscle mass, bodyweight, strength....

    It's a test i've done many times and I've never had anyone tell me my dark meat ratio off it.
    hanley wrote:
    But one can increase their VJ thru training....

    And if VJ measures fibre type, then by increasing your VJ you must also increase your VJ "fibres" - ie the "fast twitch" ones???????

    Yes thats why they say the test doesn't work well with untrained people.
    It makes perfect sense.And as for heavier/overweight guys jumping.
    It's obvious heavier guys would jump more if they were lighter.Thats why you do a power test ;)
    The people who jump higher are the people who have more fast twitch fibers.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    It's obvious heavier guys would jump more if they were lighter.Thats why you do a power test ;)
    The people who jump higher are the people who have more fast twitch fibers.

    What?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    The people who jump higher are the people who have more fast twitch fibers.
    Sorry but that's just not true. Only the Sith deal in absolutes. Slow twitch fibres (note the East side of the Atlantic spelling) contribute to the jump as well. It will be an indicator (as Cowzer said) of fast twitch fibres, but not some holy grail test. There are too many variables, some of which I've listed above but you seem to have ignored.

    I don't think you understand this test very well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Hanley wrote: »
    Tis a box jump!

    Might check VJ at some stage over the next couple of weeks.
    Okay so just going to knock down some fences here. Roughly given that you can deadlift 2xBW, I would assume that you could move a bar with single bodyweight off the floor fairly fast right? Now the VJ is basically only a deadlift without a bar (plus ankle extension) so if you can do 2XBW dead you should have a pretty good VJ. That's oversimplified but I think we can see the logic.

    But wait a sec. Now blackgold has said that because your bodyweight is larger than normal, that you won't have a good VJ. BUT if you drop your bodyweight, you will also decrease your leverage, decrease your muscle mass, and decrease the amount of weight you can deadlift. So surely that will impact negatively on your VJ as well right? (assuming the extra weight isn't all fat)

    Confusing isn't it? And yet another reason why the VJ is a good test but not a perfect test. It's not even a perfect lower body strength test never mind a fast twitch fibre test.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    roper wrote:
    But wait a sec. Now blackgold has said that because your bodyweight is larger than normal, that you won't have a good VJ. BUT if you drop your bodyweight, you will also decrease your leverage, decrease your muscle mass, and decrease the amount of weight you can deadlift. So surely that will impact negatively on your VJ as well right? (assuming the extra weight isn't all fat)

    Confusing isn't it? And yet another reason why the VJ is a good test but not a perfect test. It's not even a perfect lower body strength test never mind a fast twitch fibre test.

    About the weight issue.Thats taken into consideration and there exists and equation for just that.
    Yes it's a good test and not perfect but what is? Coaches use it every day of the week. It is and has been for a long time a method of accessing athletic ability, ie sprining.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What good is it going to do the average person to know what type of muscle fibres they have more of?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    The people who jump higher are the people who have more fast twitch fibers.

    The people who jump higher are the people who can jump higher. That's all it tells you. Nothing else. Anything else is just speculation. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    What good is it going to do the average person to know what type of muscle fibres they have more of?
    What do you mean average? And if it turns out your 75%+low twitch fibers in your legs.Your never ever going to be any good at sprinting,ever.
    The people who jump higher are the people who can jump higher. That's all it tells you. Nothing else. Anything else is just speculation.
    I disagree.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    I disagree.

    If you're saying it's an indicator of muscle fibre type and that he with most power fibres will jump highest, how do you explain the following:

    Twins with identical fibre type distributions, determined by biopsy. Going along with your theory, they jump idential heights. Then, only one trains at the vj for 2 weeks. They repeat the test. The one who trained will jump higher. He will jump higher becasue he qill have trained his neural pathways, but there will not have been enough time for any muscular adaptation (this is well established). so he now jumps higher, because of practice, yet his fibre type distribution is still the same as his twin brother...

    As Roper said, there are too many variables, skill, technique, motivation etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    Yes but the test is for people who trained for a certain amount of time ie 6 weeks or so.And the test is taken throughout the training. His fibre type distribution won't be changing that much maybe 5% over months of vigorous exercise.But it won't be changing from slow to fast.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    If we hadn't picked holes in Mark Rippetoe's squat we woudln't be dealing with this crap.

    I'm sorry Mark, I relent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    But it won't be changing from slow to fast.

    Maybe OT, but in animal models of decreased muscle use slow twitch fibres transform to fast twitch fibres, while in increased muscle use models, fast twitch fibres transform to slow twitch; so in these cases there is muscle fibre type transformation.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    What do you mean average? And if it turns out your 75%+low twitch fibers in your legs.Your never ever going to be any good at sprinting,ever.

    I think the fact that I can't run very fast is a better indication that I'll never make it as a sprinter.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    Maybe OT, but in animal models of decreased muscle use slow twitch fibres transform to fast twitch fibres, while in increased muscle use models, fast twitch fibres transform to slow twitch; so in these cases there is muscle fibre type transformation.
    Did you know the cheetah has most fast twitch fibers?
    New information is always a good thing.Maybe in the near future they will have us doing the same.Who knows.
    I think the fact that I can't run very fast is a better indication that I'll never make it as a sprinter.
    Have you ever been trained to run fast brian?
    I wonder why you can't run fast?


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,899 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Did you know the cheetah has most fast twitch fibers?
    New information is always a good thing.Maybe in the near future they will have us doing the same.Who knows.


    Have you ever been trained to run fast brian?
    I wonder why you can't run fast?

    I have in a way I suppose. Soccer, hurling, Gaelic football, Tennis all require a bit of speed. I know what you're getting at, I'm slow because I have less fast twitch than slow twitch fibres. Could be, but then again it might not be. Could be because I wasn't trained properly, could be because I'm too feckin heavy. My muscle fibre makeup is irrellevant to me, I am still slow.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    I have in a way I suppose. Soccer, hurling, Gaelic football, Tennis all require a bit of speed. I know what you're getting at, I'm slow because I have less fast twitch than slow twitch fibres. Could be, but then again it might not be. Could be because I wasn't trained properly, could be because I'm too feckin heavy.My muscle fibre makeup is irrellevant to me, I am still slow.
    Have you done the vertical jump test in training? Alot depends on your trainer.
    What sport were you better at ?Just wondering.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    WHY BOOKS ARE SOMETIMES BAD!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,900 ✭✭✭littlefriend


    Is this a serious thread?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Yeah it is. At this stage I think we should all say that it's okay, we get it, blackgold has read some new stuff on muscle fibres and he wants to tell the world.

    I'll make this very simple because you seem to be ignoring all of the relevant information. The VJ is a good test for lower body strength. It gives some indication of fibre type, but then so does sprinting, lifting, SLJ and a myriad of other tests. But no matter how many times you read the book you saw it in, it cannot and will not do what you say because of the list of variables I gave you above, but some of which I will repeat:

    Flexibility
    Skill (or nueral adaptation to the test itself)
    Body type
    Weight
    Muscle Mass
    Levers
    White fibre strength

    A coach of mine reckons he can cheat most tests and when he was an athlete he did the best of all of his stronger, fitter, better team mates because he was smarter and knew how to skew the tests in his favour through better technique.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 384 ✭✭qt9ukbg60ivjrn


    Roper wrote: »
    Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

    watched that the other week:rolleyes:
    kevpants wrote: »
    If we hadn't picked holes in Mark Rippetoe's squat we woudln't be dealing with this crap.

    I'm sorry Mark, I relent.

    i love this thread:pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    Black people may have more fast twitch fibres and be better at sprinting and "the hip hop" but in the pool those fast twitch fibres are no good...



    Oh wait..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,819 ✭✭✭✭g'em


    Brilliant find kev :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭blackgold>>


    cool video.I can do it with 1 leg ! That guys a pussy :)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    kevpants wrote: »
    Black people may have more fast twitch fibres and be better at sprinting and "the hip hop" but in the pool those fast twitch fibres are no good...



    Oh wait..

    I saw that the other day. Beyond sick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭Racing Flat


    Hanley wrote: »
    I saw that the other day. Beyond sick.

    He does have the upward force that is buoyancy of water assisting him mind....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭kevpants


    He does have the upward force that is buoyancy of water assisting him mind....

    Which is miniscule combined to the drag created by the water when he lifts his knees.


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