Unwanted attention-girls fault?

Mcfast

Inspired by a thread in travel where a poster blamed a girl getting unwanted attention on how she looked i have brought this q to tll. I know its almost more men then women so i thought id get a varied response not just the women.

So everyone if you hear a girl complaining of getting attention from men, either to much/to pervy/not hearing no/following them around/etc would you assume its the girls fault for how she looks or how she presents herself or what would you think? Do you think its different here compared to other places and is it better or worse and isit really much of a problem?

Dragan

I would blend the two common schools of thought on this. If you dress in a manner which you feel makes you more attractive then you need to accept there will be some more interest from the opposite sex. When you are out and about in pubs and clubs etc it is simply going to happen.

However, once you politely decline the interest, for whatever the reasons, that should be it. There is nothing more pathetic to me than watching the type of guy who will hound a chick on a night out. It's funny for a while, but then it gets creepy and the last stage is scary.

Having plenty of years on the doors under my belt i witnessed plenty of creepy guys doing plenty of creepy things, so that's not just from a punter perspective either. There have also been times where i simply had to have a quiet chat with the guy in question, on the behalf of female friends. It was always met with the same "Or, and your the boyfriend is it?" to which i would reply "Nope, i am just a concerned friend of a female that you keep ****ing bothering on her night out. So **** off".

It really does worry me, the retarded social graces of blokes in pubs and clubs.

Nevyn

No, it's lack of manners and respect for her as a person by the men doing it.

I have a friend who is a pretty lass and she gets pestered on nights out,
she's not so stunning she intiminates men but is cute, pretty and dimples and curls
and curves and it is unreal the liberties that men will take, even when told no
and often they are physical ones and it has nothing to do with her being immodestly attired.

Wibbs

I'd be with Dragan on this one.

Dragan wrote:

I would blend the two common schools of thought on this. If you dress in a manner which you feel makes you more attractive then you need to accept there will be some more interest from the opposite sex. When you are out and about in pubs and clubs etc it is simply going to happen.

However, once you politely decline the interest, for whatever the reasons, that should be it. There is nothing more pathetic to me than watching the type of guy who will hound a chick on a night out. It's funny for a while, but then it gets creepy and the last stage is scary.

Pathetic too, when the woman has turned them down and they start getting lippy or even agressive with her because of that.

Nevyn

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd be with Dragan on this one.

Pathetic too, when the woman has turned them down and they start getting lippy or even agressive with her because of that.

Saw that at the hollow'een beers, some muppet hitting on on the larger ladies
and when they refused said them " well I wouldn't fcuk you anyway cos your a fat cow" he pestered and abused at least 4 women that way until he found one that he decided to just dog until she came to me about him and he was told to leave.

Kya1976

or if you turn a bloke down, you obviously have to be gay:rolleyes:

Dragan

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd be with Dragan on this one.

Pathetic too, when the woman has turned them down and they start getting lippy or even agressive with her because of that.

Yeah, that is one of the odder reactions and i would put it to ANY woman that if you turn down a guys advances and he goes off on one then you have all the justification you need right there.

I have been turned down by plenty of women...I think most people have been turned down many times over the course of their life. You can't get every interaction right, and you can't control everything. Some people will be married, others stressed, some upset, some happy about things you will never be involved in etc etc etc. Normally, people have far more reason to say no to someones advances than to say yes. It's always been met with a smile and wink from me and i go away happy that at the very least i got to pay an interesting and attractive girl a compliment.

I really don't see what the issue is, there is far, far more to people that a simple interaction in a pub lets on. It's not a completely judgement of them as a person or anything. I just think it's blokes who have too much time for themselves and are victims of there own self image and too many emotional drivers. I mean, it goes from wanting to get with a girl to calling her a slag/bitch/ugly etc in a matter of seconds.

The lack of logic in the argument tells the tale i think.

Mcfast

in the thread i was refering to a girl had said she didnt like various holiday destinations because she got so hassled by men in them to the point where guys blocked her exit from a store and men on the street were following them requesting sexual favours. another poster responded by saying its obvious from your post that you need to tone down the look i was more than a bit shocked by that i thought it was a horrible response.

Dragan, wibbs what would you define as getting dressed up enough to ask for it?

I would think there are places worse than ireland for it where women are seen as second class citizens or sex objects and probably those men would carry on the same here which i think would end up being nothing to do with how the woman presents herself. Having said that i think a girl should be able to walk down a street without getting hassled and it is pathetic when a guy has been told no and goes on the desperado hunt.

I have a friend who is plain but pretty with long blond hair, she gets a horrible amount of attention bordering on molestation and not just in pubs or clubs. if i were her i wouldnt leave the house!

Toots

One time I was out with a few friends of mine who are couples. My OH was arriving along later so I was the only one there who did not have their partner with them. I got hassled by this guy who was least in his 40s who just wouldn't leave him alone. I reckon he probably saw our group and thought 'the only single girl, bit chubby, she'll be easy' and he got very aggressive when I eventually lost it and told him to eff off. He was acting like he was doing me a favour or something!!

I totally agree with what Dragan is saying, if a guy wants to come up and say hi or whatever then fair enough, however some would do well to realise that no means no!

Dragan

Mcfast wrote: »

Dragan, wibbs what would you define as getting dressed up enough to ask for it?

I don't think there IS such a thing as dressing up enough to ask for it. I think people should just be able to dress how they want and not get any hassle over it. But, that is not the way the world works so you need to apply the same level of logic to other people as you do to yourself.

If Hot Girl A arrives home from work, showers, gets her make up on, gets her outfit on....it doesn't matter WHAT she looks like when she walks out the door, but if she is looking in the mirror beforehand and thinks "Well, i look attractive now" then she needs to accept that the public will pick up on this attractiveness too and act on it.

I mean, i had a girl walk up to me on a door one night and complain, because in her words "A loads of blokes inside and a few obvious ****ing lesbians keep staring me out of it".

She was dressed in a very short skirt, a very, very low cut top and had quite the figure. I asked her had she looked in the mirror before she went out and she gave me a confused look. I simply said "Look, you have a rocking body, and your dressed as you are, of course people are going to look. It's the social dynamic that you have set yourself up for. You've put yourself into the sphere of "desire". The only chance you have of going out and NOT getting stared at is to dress down a little and show less flesh. Might not be a great solution, but it's the only one you have".

I was expecting more blank looks but as it happens she was studying Sociology so we ended up having an hour long chat about it.

Were the stares and repeated come ons acceptable? Not really, but in a way, based on her style of dress, they were semi invited.

When I go out, I always get unwanted attention.. I am aware of what I look like.. how I dress.. what make-up I use.. etc..

I can honestly say.. that I know I bring some of it on myself by the way I dress.. I like to look good, sexy, attractive whatever.. It makes me feel good.. and I like the attention.. (who doesnt?) But what I really hate.. is those who can't take no for an answer.. those guys that think just cuz' im dressed in a certain way, im obviously "gaggin for it" or something.. and think I like the disgusting comments made toward me..

God, and the amount of times, I may have said No to a guys advances.. and then to be told "**** off, you slut, wouldnt have done ya anyway etc" is.. just highly amusing..

Kya1976

I personally find that it makes a huge difference how you dress, if I'm being lady muck, going to the stable or going for a run with my dogs wearing wellies and a cap and a smelly tracksuit I rarely get any attention but if I wear 'normal' clothes and put my face on I'll get a little more.

If receiving unwanted attention I always find that using the same methods/techniques as I use when I train 'bold' dogs work well.
*The ignoring technique: no eye contact, touching or talking.
If they put their paws on you, slightly turn until they 'fall off'.










*Has been tried and tested on both men and dogs with successful results.:P

jim o doom

Kya1976 wrote: »

I personally find that it makes a huge difference how you dress, if I'm being lady muck, going to the stable or going for a run with my dogs wearing wellies and a cap and a smelly tracksuit I rarely get any attention but if I wear 'normal' clothes and put my face on I'll get a little more.

If receiving unwanted attention I always find that using the same methods/techniques as I use when I train 'bold' dogs work well.
*The ignoring technique: no eye contact, touching or talking.
If they put their paws on you, slightly turn until they 'fall off'.










*Has been tried and tested on both men and dogs with successful results.:P

lol! whilst I find what you said extremely amusing, I must admit I am vaguely insulted by the comparison between dogs and men

Mr. Presentable

Dragan wrote: »

I simply said "Look, you have a rocking body, and your dressed as you are, of course people are going to look. It's the social dynamic that you have set yourself up for. You've put yourself into the sphere of "desire". .

Can anyone imagine this from a bouncer

Dragan, you must be the most top quality doorman in Ireland. I'll bet your work colleagues slag the veritable out of you.

OP, everyone has a right to be left alone, but if a girl (or guy) presents themselves in a shop window, they must expect offers to buy. But, a refusal should be the end of it.

Kya1976

jim o doom wrote: »

lol! whilst I find what you said extremely amusing, I must admit I am vaguely insulted by the comparison between dogs and men

well I was joking;)

Dragan

nipplenuts wrote: »

Can anyone imagine this from a bouncer

Dragan, you must be the most top quality doorman in Ireland. I'll bet your work colleagues slag the veritable out of you.

Ah, i've been out of that game for about 2 years now, thankfully! Still though, it was always fun to dismiss the idea of the "knuckle dragger".:)

For a time on one of the doors my nickname was "Professor", that was pretty funny. Then they started a rumour that i really WAS a Professor out in UL and i would have loads of people asking me about courses!! That was freaking hilarious.

Mcfast

Im amazed-in the other thread the girl said she didnt like certain places because of the way men treated her, it wasn't a few comments, it was bad incidents of being blocked from leaving a store for sexual favours,people asking her with her bf next to her for sex and when her friends were dancing men surrounded them and grabbed them all. Thats not normal behaviour anywhere but the poster is being told its her fault because of how she looks and people have automatically assumed its her being dressed innapropriately despite poster giving info on above situations and no info on how she looks.

it shocks me that someone can be almost sexually assaulted anywhere and people who dont even know what the girl looks like assume its her fault. Is this where were at now with women? its automatically her fault if shes attractive?will we only believe unattractive girls can be harrassed?

girls just like men get dressed up to feel more confident and attractive. im not sure how many men have had a girl following them or grabbing them, its happened to me (very) rarely but its a pain in the hole when it does. i would think its worse for a girl because of the possible fear/intimidation.

do you think its restricted to certain places or cultures?

i dont,i see it here all the time and it sickens me.its not even to the extent that the girl in the other thread posted about but its still invasive and shouldnt happen. im surprised theres not more uproar about this

Dragan

Mcfast wrote: »

do you think its restricted to certain places or cultures?

Nope, it more about certain personality types, but the thing there is that certain places and cultures will breed more of certain type of personalities than others.

It can also be a case of what people have gotten away with in the past. If a guy goes out and misbehaves a few times and gets away with it, it may become habit. If he goes out and misbehaves and gets called on it, or smacked in teeth, he may learn his lesson.

That why i always try and go the Agent of Karma route and if i see a person misbehaving, be it work or a night out, i am gonna call them on it. It's just a whole lot of fun to pull the rug from under them and put them into a situation that they no longer control. They tend to fade pretty fast then.

Mcfast

what if a friend told you that their friend has experienced this kind of behaviour-you dont know the person or how they look,would you or anyone assume it was how they dressed/looked that was to blame?

i thought the culture of blaming women for being harrassed was long gone but it seems its the case even in 2009

Mcfast

when the gf and i were in paris she had fellas trying it on strongly with her 24/7,even in jeans runners and no make up and even with me right next to her.unreal. it wasnt even hey how r u,it was filthy stuff that she found real distressin

if she re told the story and people blamed her for it because they assumed she was a slapper or dressed like one she d b very upset and theyd b wrong

Wibbs

Mcfast I know theres not a lot of it in your posts, but could you ease up on the oul txtspk? It's against the charter and there may be older viewers who find it irritating(IE me:)) Thanks.

Mcfast

hadnt noticed i was doing it-assume you meant the how r u

ali.c

Mcfast wrote: »

Inspired by a thread in travel where a poster blamed a girl getting unwanted attention on how she looked i have brought this q to tll. I know its almost more men then women so i thought id get a varied response not just the women.

So everyone if you hear a girl complaining of getting attention from men, either to much/to pervy/not hearing no/following them around/etc would you assume its the girls fault for how she looks or how she presents herself or what would you think? Do you think its different here compared to other places and is it better or worse and isit really much of a problem?

tbh I would have mixed thoughts on this, I have seen girls out acting provocatively and being provocatively dressed lapping up attention with no interest in any of the guys they are acting that way with. I know girls that are not really that assertive and find it difficult to clearly say no and

Then there are guys who are just asses and think that no really means maybe. But I have found that certain girls(although attractive) do not really fall subject to this type of behaviour for whatever reason and I think some of it down to whatever signals they give off.

Extreme harrasment like the incidences you described are outside of this though and IMHO are solely the responsibility of the individuals doing the harrasment

I am not that shocked at the reaction though, since to quote a recent opinion poll

Irish Examiner wrote:

at least 25% of people will attach some blame to women who are raped based on what they wear, where they walk or what they have to drink.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2008/03/28/story58881.asp

GirlInterrupted

ali.c wrote: »

tbh I would have mixed thoughts on this, I have seen girls out acting provocatively and being provocatively dressed lapping up attention with no interest in any of the guys they are acting that way with. I know girls that are not really that assertive and find it difficult to clearly say no and

Then there are guys who are just asses and think that no really means maybe. But I have found that certain girls(although attractive) do not really fall subject to this type of behaviour for whatever reason and I think some of it down to whatever signals they give off.

Extreme harrasment like the incidences you described are outside of this though and IMHO are solely the responsibility of the individuals doing the harrasment

I am not that shocked at the reaction though, since to quote a recent opinion poll

You could go out in a bin bag, and still be hit on twenty times.

If you smile, if you are polite, if you make casual eye contact, if you do anything other than be completely closed off, and disgustingly rude, to allcomers, you will be told you are giving off signals and its your fault you're being targetted.:(

ali.c

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

You could go out in a bin bag, and still be hit on twenty times.

If you smile, if you are polite, if you make casual eye contact, if you do anything other than be completely closed off, and disgustingly rude, to allcomers, you will be told you are giving off signals and its your fault you're being targetted.:(

Likely by the same type of tards who think that if a woman is unfortunate enough to be sexually assaulted she is somewhat to blame. I dont get that kind of thinking its completely ridiculuos and IMHO disrespectful to both men and women

The travel thing isn't about how you look, or what you are wearing.
It is the fact that your as a foreigner your percieved as vunerable, lacking in street smarts, an easy target. Certain people keep their eyes open for soft touches.

Except the nightclub incident, that is just how packs of Italian men behave stereotypically.

Acacia

GirlInterrupted wrote: »

You could go out in a bin bag, and still be hit on twenty times.

If you smile, if you are polite, if you make casual eye contact, if you do anything other than be completely closed off, and disgustingly rude, to allcomers, you will be told you are giving off signals and its your fault you're being targetted.:(

I agree. I don't like being rude to people (i.e. guys that approach me), so I find it hard to let someone know I'm not interested without directly moving away from them, or saying "I have a boyfriend." Then I'm accused of 'leading them on' even though I just want to be polite and chat with them for a few minutes. I don't know what's the best thing to do really.

I accept wearing certain clothes will attract men's attention, but I don't think it's okay to constantly hound a girl because she's wearing a short skirt for example.

liah

So hold on. How come no one has brought up simple male accountability yet?

Just because a girl's out dressed to the nines doesn't mean a guy has to be sleazy about hitting on her. He has self control and the ability to direct his actions! He can choose what he says, does, how he reacts-- regardless of how the girl dresses..

..Any guy who goes up and hounds a girl who's dressed like that and insults her if she doesn't reciprocate is just a sleazeball, nothing to do with the girl provoking him by her dress, jesus...

Mcfast

These are the posts i was reffering to in the worst destination thread of the travel forum.

Tje first one with the girl talking bout she didnt like the places http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59152636&postcount=186

The response has been edited by a mod but it said to the best of my knowledge -its obvious from your post that you need to tone down the look, less make up, longer skirts, less skin showing. girls who dress up are asking for it or something-not exactly what it said but tjat was the impression.As the post was edited i cant copy and paste.

The other response was http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59167780&postcount=208

Now nobody asked the girl what she looked like or what she was wearing-it was all just assumed immediately. Given the dept of harrassment the girl went through to say i was shocked by responses is mild.

I would have thought in this day and age a girl should be able to buy some chewing gum without nearly being assaulted in any part of the world. Im completely appalled that posters here would automatically assume its a girls fault without knowing anything about her. I wonder what would happen if a girl who did like to doll herself up said shed encountered this kind of treatment-would it then be more than assumed?would it be a definate that it was her fault?

Aside from this incident(its what made me begin the thread not the content of it) do you girls encounter this attitude regularly? Is it reflected in the clothes you wear and is that attitude throuwn at you? How does the above situation and situations make you feel?

i was wondering why i alone in being appalled that people would assume its the girls fault for her looks despite them not knowing what she looked like. im glad to see im not

R.D. aka MR.D

This is a great thread because i've experienced this so much in the area i used to live in last year.(dublin 8) I realise that when in a nightclub some men will leer at you and make comments etc but when walking around at 1 o clock in the day its madness!

I was left in tears one day because I was going down to the shop in a pair of baggy denim jeans down to my knees and and a v-neck vest top, and a man blocked me on the street and looked me up and down and made me feel disgusting.:mad: I said to him whats your problem? he just laughed and walked away. I'm not a soft person but i felt so so so upset by it. I never walked down that road without a jacket again and hated myself for letting it effect me.

It happened several times when during the day i would sexually propositioned or followed down the road with someone trying to stop me and say things to me.

Everyones advice?
Don't dress so provocativly!
yes indeed..baggy shorts...jeans...thick black tights and skirt. I'm quiet self-concious about my body (especially my legs) so I never dress in anything that could be considered inappropiate!


its difficult for a woman to stand up for herself on a quiet road to someone who obviously has very little respect for women.

How do we deal with people like this?

It definitly doesn't help when many peoples attitudes are: well hes only a man, he can't help it!

In other countries however, I think its important to fit in with what is expected with local woman (unless your over there to stage some sort of rebellion)
I have experienced things in other countries and it was simply because i am so pale (I'm practically see-through:p) nothing to do with what I'm wearing!

Húrin

Dragan wrote: »

She was dressed in a very short skirt, a very, very low cut top and had quite the figure. I asked her had she looked in the mirror before she went out and she gave me a confused look. I simply said "Look, you have a rocking body, and your dressed as you are, of course people are going to look. It's the social dynamic that you have set yourself up for. You've put yourself into the sphere of "desire". The only chance you have of going out and NOT getting stared at is to dress down a little and show less flesh. Might not be a great solution, but it's the only one you have".

I was expecting more blank looks but as it happens she was studying Sociology so we ended up having an hour long chat about it.

heh, complete with Bordieu references?

Mcfast wrote: »

do you think its restricted to certain places or cultures?

i dont,i see it here all the time and it sickens me.its not even to the extent that the girl in the other thread posted about but its still invasive and shouldnt happen. im surprised theres not more uproar about this

In Iran the rulers think that women who get raped are to blame for it.

PrettyInPunk

I think men showing appreciation for women is one thing, but pestering them is annoying. One thing i dont like is builders, it can make me really uncomfortable. The other morning i got up outta bed, was wearing tracksuit bottoms and a jumper, so non of this provocative stuff, didnt even have make up on, and was walking round the corner to the dentist.
There is a lot of roadworks where i live, and as i walked by four builders turned and just stared whilst another in a digger started beeping the horn at me. Not once, not twice but about 7 times. I was in a bad mood and i really wanted to turn around and tell the lot of them to fcuk off and actually do some work instead of spending the whole day beeping and shouting at females.
I just dont really get how they think they have the right to shout comments, and beep and whistle at women just because their builders. It shows the lack of respect they themselves have for women and also makes a lot of people feel really uncomfotable. rant over!

Dragan

Húrin wrote: »

heh, complete with Bordieu references?

Well, she brought up class distinction but personally i had no real idea who Bordieu was until a couple of years later to be honest.:o

Wibbs

liah wrote: »

So hold on. How come no one has brought up simple male accountability yet?

I agree it's all to do with that. Then again, the problem isn't the guy who sets himself standards and follows them, its the guy who doesn't. IMHO there is the acknowledgement of the reality of how some are dumb fools. It's like no one deserves to be mugged, but you don't walk through an known dodgy area wearing a rolex and an expensive camera. Sad to say there are fools and even dangerous men out there and sometimes the (correct)principle of the thing has to be set against the reality.

Then again as many of the women here have attested, even if you go out in tracky bottoms, looking like something the cat dragged in, you'll still get the crap. Much like people get mugged even if they're being careful. Sad reflection of society really and in this case many of my own gender.

mikemac

PrettyInPunk wrote: »

I just dont really get how they think they have the right to shout comments, and beep and whistle at women just because their builders. It shows the lack of respect they themselves have for women and also makes a lot of people feel really uncomfotable. rant over!

Reply back and be sure to include "soon to laid off" and "dole queue" and they'll shut up

or "hire the great Polish guy who can do same job for less"

Fight fire with fire, they bother you, now you know what bothers them.

Crumble Froo

ali.c wrote: »

tbh I would have mixed thoughts on this, I have seen girls out acting provocatively and being provocatively dressed lapping up attention with no interest in any of the guys they are acting that way with. I know girls that are not really that assertive and find it difficult to clearly say no and

Then there are guys who are just asses and think that no really means maybe. But I have found that certain girls(although attractive) do not really fall subject to this type of behaviour for whatever reason and I think some of it down to whatever signals they give off.

Extreme harrasment like the incidences you described are outside of this though and IMHO are solely the responsibility of the individuals doing the harrasment

I am not that shocked at the reaction though, since to quote a recent opinion poll

that irish examiner link you provided (forgot you had it as a quote, wont turn up in this post) reminded me of this really chilling ad campaign over in new zealand.... the motto was "it's not what we're drinking, it's how we're drinking". shows this chick out with her workmates, quite shy, has a couple drinks, feeling more comfortable in herself, making everyone laugh, couple more drinks, up dancing, couple more drinks, can't see her workmates, she's dancing with some dude, couple more, eating some dude's face, but it ends with her leaving the club, some guy taking her shoulders, her not quite knowing what's happening, then him leading her down a dark alley and then looking back at the camera quite dodgily, then the woman starts protesting.. it's really very chilling.

but as for the thread in general, i'd agree with the mugging comparison... while living in ireland, i would go out frequently, usually at least once a week, quite often two or three nights (and occasionally every night), but how much negative/unwanted attention i got in all that time, i could probably count on one hand.

i'd put that down, mostly, to how i dress and where i went out to. most of the time, if i could help it, i'd never wear clothes that reveal any cleavage, leg, or... well, jeans and tshirt where possible (and i know anyone who's met me in person can back me up on that)...

what i hated most, was club dress codes. the fact that i couldnt get in if i wasn't showing off some cleavage/leg or wearing some ungodly pair of shoes. even wearing a nice shirt and jeans (which is what just about all guys could get away with in most places), i get turned away, come back in revealing clothes, yay, in we go. id rarely be going out to pick guys up, particularly to places like that, it's that i want to go dancing and hang with my girlie mates who are less fond of my usual hangouts.

bah, im just ranting now...

roberta c

This is one thing that really ruins my night sometimes. I've tried everything with these kind of guys (except the obvious *shudder*). Sworn at them, ignored them, been pleasant but uninteresting, engaged them in a normal conversation about work or whatever, told them I'm not single etc. and they either dont give up or when they do they get violent/abusive.
And for the record(though i know from experiance that what you wear is totally irrelivant when it comes to these types of guys) I'd generally wear jeans, runners and nice t-shirt on a night out, and go to late night bars rather than clubs..

After last satuday night out i was considering a life time of dvds and cinema nights rather than spending 50 quid on a night out with my friends only to spend half of the short night out explaining to horrible people why i dont want their genitalia inside me.

Next step i guess is going to the bouncer and hoping they throw the sleaze merchants out!

here.from.day.1

Kya1976 wrote: »

I personally find that it makes a huge difference how you dress, if I'm being lady muck, going to the stable or going for a run with my dogs wearing wellies and a cap and a smelly tracksuit I rarely get any attention but if I wear 'normal' clothes and put my face on I'll get a little more.

If receiving unwanted attention I always find that using the same methods/techniques as I use when I train 'bold' dogs work well.
*The ignoring technique: no eye contact, touching or talking.
If they put their paws on you, slightly turn until they 'fall off'.


*Has been tried and tested on both men and dogs with successful results.:P

Bit bitchy no? Seems like a good strategy though, but how many could keep this up when drunk? Ive seen plenty of girls start out with that attitude but then warm to the guys puppy traits over the night.

It makes me cringe how bad some guys get towards the end of a night. I actually start to feel embarassed for them.

The dog puns were for your benefit!

Dragan

roberta c wrote: »

Next step i guess is going to the bouncer and hoping they throw the sleaze merchants out!

This should be step number one to be honest, not the last thing you do. These types of guys are never one time offenders, or even one victim offenders. If a guy is bothering you in such a way you can bet that he is bothering some other girl in a similar manner.

The best thing to do is find a bouncer who is NOT on the front door. Whilst i know most people who go looking for a bouncer feel the door is the place to go, it really isn't unless you are in a pub or club that only has door coverage ( which is one of Dragan's big no no's for clubs ). The door is busy, we gotta check ID's and make stoppages, deal with angry people who are not let in and is the most likely place for violence to break out over the course of the night.

Find someone inside, and explain the situation. Don't make a massive deal out of it the first time round. Let him know a male customer has been bothering you, tell them exactly what has happened up to that point. Don't make it sound like an attempted rape, just let them know they have an element in their club that they might want to keep an eye on. If they ask you to point out the guy, then do so in a discreet manner. Thank the bouncer for listening to you and introduce yourself, shake his hand and ask his name. This way, you know who to ask for the second time out.

If you get hassled again, go back to the same bouncer and tell him once again what happened. Tell him you now feel quite uncomfortable. Repeat what was said to you by the guy. If you have a witness, be it male or female, bring them with you to back you up. Hopefully at this point the bouncer will do his job, keep an eye on the dude and chuck him at the first opportuinity.

IF you spend the whole night complaining to a member of security that you are being hassled and they show no interest or don't even try and help you then you need to make the decision to never return to that pub or club again.

The role of security staff is to ensure your safety and in a way, your enjoyment. You have paid a cover charge on the door and are entitled to a safe night a good time. Don't pay for what you are not getting.

*Lees*

PrettyInPunk wrote: »

One thing i dont like is builders, it can make me really uncomfortable.

+ 1 :mad: I hate this! Im sure they think it's in their job description to harass any female who walks by!!
Where i work I am on my own all day, my desk is right next to a big window so anyone who walks by is basically right next to me!! There is a warehouse next door where 2 guys come throughout the day collecting stuff! When I first started they really made things awful for me! Wolf whistling in the mornings walking from the car, walking past staring in and tapping on my window, blowing kisses!! At first i tried to be nice thinking they would just get bored and stop but it seemed to make them worse they would walk past the window shouting "hiiiii" sort of mocking the way I say hello! :rolleyes:
It got to a stage where i kept the blinds down, my boss used to come in and open them all the time and i didn't want to tell him what was happening because i felt if i made a big deal of it it would make things worse!!! It's calmed down a lot, 2 years later it only happens once or twice a week (instead of 5 times a day!) they think im an odd cow but i really don't care. I wish they knew the misery they put me through for months.:rolleyes:
So, to answer the original question the OP asked, no i don't think it's the girls fault for getting unwanted attention!!!
Although I do believe that people should be able to wear whatever they want, realistically women should be careful on nights out, there are some serious headcases out there!!! Some women dress revealing to get some attention which makes them feel good about themselves but really they should think twice about being too revealing if they are not prepared to take the negative aspects of getting attention!

Gauge

Dragan wrote: »

IF you spend the whole night complaining to a member of security that you are being hassled and they show no interest or don't even try and help you then you need to make the decision to never return to that pub or club again.

Quoted for truth. My female friend was slapped across the face by a guy in a club. A bouncer was stood not five feet away and witnessed it, laughing. Haven't been back to that club since.

Dragan

*Lees* wrote: »

+ 1 :mad: I hate this! Im sure they think it's in their job description to harass any female who walks by!!

It's a safety thing, and thats about it. They don't have to actually interact with you in any way and this leads to swollen ego's and swollen balls.

Get them off the scaffodilling and they are ****ing pussies.

Besides, having work on building sites i can happily say it's a fairly small percentage of builders that do this and the rest are much like anyone else, just there to work.

Nevyn

I would have found out who they work for and made a complaint.

Kya1976

here.from.day.1 wrote: »

Bit bitchy no? Seems like a good strategy though, but how many could keep this up when drunk? Ive seen plenty of girls start out with that attitude but then warm to the guys puppy traits over the night.

It makes me cringe how bad some guys get towards the end of a night. I actually start to feel embarassed for them.

The dog puns were for your benefit!

lol well luckily for me a very rarely drink so this strategy usually works.
Having said that sometimes it might be necessary to throw in a sharp 'No' if they dont get the message.:p

TheDollyParton

I am a curvy woman with breasts that get a lot of attention. I like them, I wouldn't change them, but I would change the way that people (mostly guys) react to them.

As far as I'm concerned no one has the right to comment on my body, or touch me ever, unless I've given them permission (verbally or otherwise ) and yet it never ceases to amaze me when I'm out that men feel entitled to discuss them, guess my bra size, ask to motorboat me, grab them "accidentally" etc. etc. I'm talking about perfect strangers here. I don't wear anything that is even borderline obscene, I don't wear anything that is really low cut but the fact of the matter is if I wear a high necked top I usually look ridiculous (like I have a shelf sticking out of me) and clothes that look perfectly modest on most women can look a little naughty on me. To be honest though, that shouldn't even be relevant because the fact is I should be able to wear what I want and not have to bow to the "she's asking for it" attitude. And also, I've gotten lots of comments when I've been wearing high necked jumpers! So it would appear there is nothing I can do about it. And even if there were, why should I??? Why should I be made uncomfortable for the shape of my body just because ignorant people feel they have the right to comment? I don't really know where I'm going with this...bit of a rant frankly...I guess it just really infuriates me that I feel uncomfortable on a regular basis when I'm out because of other people's horrifically rude behaviour.

here.from.day.1

Kya1976 wrote: »

lol well luckily for me a very rarely drink so this strategy usually works.
Having said that sometimes it might be necessary to throw in a sharp 'No' if they dont get the message.:p

I think you may have a hard time getting the rest of the Ladies Lounge to take your alcohol free approach!

TheDollyParton wrote: »

I am a curvy woman with breasts that get a lot of attention. I like them, I wouldn't change them, but I would change the way that people (mostly guys) react to them.

or it didnt happen!

Snowie

take adult industry,. women for ever complaining about guys going kiss her show us your boobs yada yada yada... guys dont seem to be able to grasp that it could infact be a job....

and when there out there useually more normal then most people... not really!

but is the same with gurls who dress up and become mopre revealing there going to get unwanted attention because the bloke is going think well here this girl she dressed provocativly shes looking for soem sexy time. i think il get away with lude comment's...

where as in fact the reason she could be dressed like that is that shes just broken up with her boyfriend of 5 years and her self esteam is taking a bit of a kicking...
and she dressed like that for that reason, to get attention... other time girls just like dressing like that...like the attention and can give as good as they get .

OP if it's my post you're referring to, I suggest you check it again. I said dressing appropriately COULD cause unwanted attention, (the particular poster made no reference to how they were dressed). I was mainly referring to going to a nightclub in a Muslim country and being surprised to get stared at and groped. Just seemed a bit odd to me. Of course it's not 'right', but common sense would tell me that drinking and partying in a culture where women don't really do that isn't the best idea??

I brought up the dress because the post reminded me of an American girl I met in Marrakech who spent the day giving out about being harrassed. She was wearing a miniskirt and a vest top. I mean, what did she expect? It's going against all the advice given to women travellers to that part of the world. In this case I'd say it WAS her fault for disregarding all the advice. I thought it was pretty disrespectful of her tbh, like a big 'F-YOU' to the locals. If she didn't want to respect their culture, why did she go to Morocco?

Sometimes you just get unwanted attention for no reason at all, just some nutter takes a liking to you, but if you stand out, of course you're more likely to get it. It's not rocket science. That doesn't mean that's how it SHOULD be, but that's how it is. If I go out in hotpants, thigh high boots and a boob tube, guys will be grabbing my ass. If I go out in jeans and converse, there's a lot less chance of that happening. You have to think about the time and place as well. I have no problem going around Dublin in a miniskirt/tights/boots combo as it's very normal there. I wouldn't do the same in Istanbul or Tangiers because it's a different culture. Dressing like that is going to make you a MUCH more likely target for sleezes - common sense, no?

roberta c

I just dont think the way you dress is that big a factor in this, it is a factor, but not the main one. I've never worn a micro mini skirt out in my life but going to clubs i've still had my ass grabed etc., this is wearing jeans and converse too! While it can be a factor, its not the main one at all. The main factor is the guys who have no respect for women who get away with hasseling them once and keep doing it.

The whole question of what your wearing stinks of victim blaming, since its been proved to me in many circumstances that it really doesnt matter what your wearing to a sleazebag.

In other countries with other dress cultures its still not the girls fault that shes treated like a comdity/piece of meat. No one deserves that. She could avoid it by never traveling, because she does travel does not make it her fault. Because she wears normal holiday clothes for a scorching country does not make it her fault that the men there have no repect for her a human being. Its a factor in the situation, but not the main one.

In other countries with other dress cultures its still not the girls fault that shes treated like a comdity/piece of meat. No one deserves that. She could avoid it by never traveling, because she does travel does not make it her fault. Because she wears normal holiday clothes for a scorching country does not make it her fault that the men there have no repect for her a human being. Its a factor in the situation, but not the main one.

Different countries have different cultures, and in most Muslim countries, showing lots of flesh is unacceptable. Who says what's right and wrong? Just because 'normal holiday clothes' here are short skirts and little tops doesn't mean it's normal everywhere. I think it's rude not to respect the local customs - that goes for clothing and everything else. My female Muslim friends would be offended at seeing a girl in skimpy clothes or drinking alcohol in their country because it just isn't done there. Nobody is forced to go to Morocco or Tunisia on holiday - if dressing modestly (long sleeves and long pants) is too much hassle, then why not just go to Ibiza? Why go to a country known for leering men, go to a nightclub and presumably drink alcohol (not really accepted there) and then complain that Morocco is a kip? What do you expect? I'm not saying anyone deserves anything, but I thought that poster was being a bit unfair/naive. I had a wonderful holiday there and was treated with respect for the most part because I respected their culture. It goes both ways.

minidazzler

The way I see it, while in Different countries it may not be fair that a woman is treated as a second-class citizen, and are expected to cover up, it is the way it is. If you choose not to respect the customs of that country then you will be ridiculed, you made a bad choice.


When it happens here, the ridicule is unacceptable, but in a Muslim country, if you are female and showing your figure, it is a Genuine problem, Muslim's are supposed to resist temptations and such, (No Alcohol) and the body of a woman is a very tempting sight indeed, especially if you don't regularily see it.

What I am trying to say, is if you don't want to adhere to the customs of another country, then don't go there, I know it isn't fair on the women of those countries, especially from a western perspective, but if they want things to change they will have to take a stand themselves.


Italy is a terrible place for females actually!!! There men have no shame in pinching arses and other "flirtatious" behaviour.