BER report content is useless

hurlerman

Had the BER done recently on a 20yr old house in the midlands and content of the advisory report is a joke. It's just generic garbage, copied and pasted from one report to the next. A couple of lines here and there specific to the dwelling yet nothing that helps me understand where the problems are in my dwelling or an idea of the most cost effective upgrades.
Why can't I plainly see the ratings for all areas of my house (windows, walls, attic, boiler ...) in a simple scale of 1-10 rather than than getting meaningless (to the average homeowner) energy rating stats and garble.

Furthers my belief that the whole system is a joke as it currently stands.

sydthebeat

hurlerman wrote: »

Had the BER done recently on a 20yr old house in the midlands and content of the advisory report is a joke. It's just generic garbage, copied and pasted from one report to the next. A couple of lines here and there specific to the dwelling yet nothing that helps me understand where the problems are in my dwelling or an idea of the most cost effective upgrades.
Why can't I plainly see the ratings for all areas of my house (windows, walls, attic, boiler ...) in a simple scale of 1-10 rather than than getting meaningless (to the average homeowner) energy rating stats and garble.

Furthers my belief that the whole system is a joke as it currently stands.

hurlerman,

the reason your advisory report is useless, is because it is a generic report generated from the SEI website. I agree with you that it is completely useless!!!!
SEI never should have allowed such a generic document to be created for clients comsumption.
Prices to do BERs have been bet down so much, that any good assesor who writes up his/her own advisory report, simply cannot get the work.

Therefore the 'advisory report' side of it has become almost irrelevant, to the shame of SEI.

I believe SEI created this generic report to hide the fact that they allowed so many assessors to qualify, without any construction knowledge whatsoever. These assessors would either not be alble to write up a proper advisory report, or would write up ones that would be incorrect or dangerous from a building science point of view.

If i was you i would go back to your assssor and demand a specific advisory report be written up for your specific building, and if he/she refuses or demands extra money, i would report him/her to SEI.
The aim of this would not be to get this assessor in trouble, as he/she would actually be working within the code of conduct of SEI, but rather to alert SEI to the folly of their own generic report-generating software....

clint_eastman

As a matter of interest, what did you pay the assessor for the BER Cert and generic "report"?

hurlerman

It was around the 280 mark.

I can see an element of you get what you pay for perhaps here - but how am I supposed to know who's good and whos bad at their job just based on price.

I'd just like to be able to see in plain simple terms how they decided my house was worth the value they gave it. Their must be calucations of some sort involved..? or do they just pluck an estimate out of their heads based on a look round the house??

sydthebeat

hurlerman wrote: »

It was around the 280 mark.

I can see an element of you get what you pay for perhaps here - but how am I supposed to know who's good and whos bad at their job just based on price.

I'd just like to be able to see in plain simple terms how they decided my house was worth the value they gave it. Their must be calucations of some sort involved..? or do they just pluck an estimate out of their heads based on a look round the house??

what you are referring to here is different from the 'advisory report' you refer to in the original post.

The assessor collects the data and inputs this into a software package. As the house exists, the assessor determines an 'age band' of the house, and the software automatically gives different u values to different elements, ie floors walls roofs.

The value for windows can be determined by looking at them ie are the single or double glazed, whats is the gap in the DG, is there any evidence of a low e coating, what is the frame made of etc

What you are actually asking for is a detailed report generated by DEAP (the software). the assessor can dio this for you with a click of a mouse... ask them for the 'detailed report generated by DEAP' fo ryour house.. get them to email it to you in .doc format.....

sinnerboy

The BER rating process is not primarily intended for those who obtain the BER cert.

It is primarily there to provide consumer information to buyers and renters so they can make informed choices.

Those who seek the BER in the main will look for the cheapest possible option which results in quick in-out inspection , reliance of default performance values , generic advisory reports . €300-400 - but many are cutting rates way below even this .

Now , if you as a property owner want more than that you can expect to pay for more than that . The BER process is just the start , not the end . Cost benefit analysis , options , construction proposals , m+e upgrade specs - forget it . This will not form part of the "dial up and pick the cheapest" BER assessment .

If you have an existing property and you want to improve it to remain there and NOT sell or let it - engage the services of an architect or architectural technician ( or QS or Engineer or building services engineer ) who is also a BER assessor to

1. do a BER assessment ( and hold off processing with SEI )
2. prepare a tailor made upgrade package in consultation with you .
3 . obtain quotes + report on same
4. monitor works
5. sign off on completion
6. Revise BER assessment and process with SEI

dunie001

If you have an existing property and you want to improve it to remain there and NOT sell or let it - engage the services of an architect or architectural technician ( or QS or Engineer or building services engineer ) who is also a BER assessor to

1. do a BER assessment ( and hold off processing with SEI )
2. prepare a tailor made upgrade package in consultation with you .
3 . obtain quotes + report on same
4. monitor works
5. sign off on completion
6. Revise BER assessment and process with SEI

This is exactly where the value will be obtained for homeowners. they should (eventually) be able to just ring up a decent assessor (with construction background) get them to assess their house via DEAP and come up with upgrades that are most beneficial to the home in question, get quotes from suppliers for the homeowner.
Then the homeowner picks the price they want to pay and the assessor supervises all the work done, signs it off and completes a BER that will be more efficient (higher rating) than what it was when the process started.

basically everything that sinnerboy said as quoted above...:D

Time, however is the only thing that will weed out all the assessors who are just out to make a few bucks when the ball starts rolling. It's the qualified engineers who also do energy ratings that will be still operating in years to come (we hope anyway) offering proper services at proper prices...

and I agree completely with everything said about the "advisory Report" which is more like a "couldn't be arsed thinking for myself so here's one I spat out earlier Report";)

At the moment I just print off the Advisory Report like we're supposed to do, unless of course I'm specifically doing an upgrade package for a homeowner, in which case I will spend a few hours making a custom report which clearly shows the effects any upgrades would have on the energy rating. But I will only do that if asked to (once offered by me to do it) and at a very small fee for my time.

dunie001

If i was you i would go back to your assssor and demand a specific advisory report be written up for your specific building, and if he/she refuses or demands extra money, i would report him/her to SEI.

The thought of that alone sends shivers down my back;)

People should be paid for their time...if they weren't then no-one would have any money to pay their mortgages, bills etc. and what kind of a society would that be!

topcatcbr

hurlerman wrote: »

It was around the 280 mark.

I can see an element of you get what you pay for perhaps here - but how am I supposed to know who's good and whos bad at their job just based on price.

I'd just like to be able to see in plain simple terms how they decided my house was worth the value they gave it. Their must be calucations of some sort involved..? or do they just pluck an estimate out of their heads based on a look round the house??

What you want is a spec for improvements. This should be available to you at a cost ask your assessor.
The fee for BER assments is too low to include this as standard and it is not usually required. People generally require cert for sale or rental of home and were asked by solicitor or Co Co.

They do not pluck an estimate out of their heads. they use a programe called DEAP to determine the rating.
I usually give clients a copy of this http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/Building%20Energy%20Rating%20Leaflet.pdf to help explain.

You may get further answers here http://www.sei.ie/Your_Building/BER/BER_FAQ_Search/

sinnerboy

On a scary note I know of two company that are sending out non-registered staff out to gather all the info and the one person in the office is putting through the certs. Thtas just not right.

Caveat Emptor .

topcatcbr

the homeowner must be supplied with a detailed report specific to their home .

The automated advisary report was developed to provide this and reduce the time required and thus reduce the cost. It is pretty useless but is suffecient to cover this.

If I were the homeowner I would be getting onto the SEI and taking this up with them.

Good luck. :rolleyes:

I agree with what everyone is saying in regards to getting what you paid for. A proper assessment of your property should take three hours minimum and every reasonable effort should be made to get specific U-values for the dwelling. Only if it is not possible to do this should the default values be used.

You have to be able to prove any non default U-Values.

As part of our own assessments we offer a free thermal image of the property so the customer can actually asee where they are loosing heat and where cold is ingressing into the dwelling. The reason we do this is the normal Joe soap doesn't usually understand thermal bridging or how heat loss occurs. We break it down as much as possible. At the same time we do charge more than the cowboys doing it for €210 !!! Like anything you get what you pay for.

Are you chargin the Indian Rates so.
Only kidding. Fair play its good to see others interested in doing things right. Are you getting much call for the Thermal imaging.

On a scary note I know of two company that are sending out non-registered staff out to gather all the info and the one person in the office is putting through the certs. Thtas just not right.

This is your compitetion. And i agree you get what you pay for. But i dont see anything wrong with providing just the service which is required. If someone just wants a BER to allow the contract for sale through I dont see the need to sell them thermal imaging or a Spec for improvements also. Just give them what they want and charge for this.

d'Oracle

The report issued in this instance is the one generated by SEI.

Its also the report required by SEI's Declaration of Conformance.
I think it should be scrapped, its broken.

The function of the BER cert is to allow someone to see how efficient a building is. This is why it has been made mandatory. If you want to renovate or improve, it makes a fair basis for assessing the potential for improving a house. If its done properly and you house is poor, it will get a poor rating.

And, no offense but how is the thermal image free if you are charging more for the service?

d'Oracle

Have a lot of calls for the thermal imaging. Our standard price for a BER, carried out by a qualified assessor, for a 3 bed Semi-D is €310. We generally get in touch with the local authority and get the plans for the houses / estates and we go from there so we can prove the actual U-values. The difference between the defaults and what we uncover are dramatically different.

All our advisory reports are detailed to the individual dwelling along with their thermal imaging. We offer an additional service if they want were we drop back after their improvements and do a final imaging so they can see the difference any improvement have made. We do charge for the call back but it's a nominal fee.

We go a lot further than competitors but about 40% of our work is from refrences. Do a good job and the work keeps coming. Do one bad job and it will haunt you.

Sounds like a good job.
And if somebody was buying an old house, or looking to renovate in energy terms, it sounds like a great service.

Tell me this though, do you do a low cost service for people who are selling or longterm renting and dont give a damn about the report?

I would still tell you to keep the thermal image, though. They are as much use as a spoiler on a Fiat Uno.

sydthebeat

Have a lot of calls for the thermal imaging. Our standard price for a BER, carried out by a qualified assessor, for a 3 bed Semi-D is €310. We generally get in touch with the local authority and get the plans for the houses / estates and we go from there so we can prove the actual U-values. The difference between the defaults and what we uncover are dramatically different.

All our advisory reports are detailed to the individual dwelling along with their thermal imaging. We offer an additional service if they want were we drop back after their improvements and do a final imaging so they can see the difference any improvement have made. We do charge for the call back but it's a nominal fee.

We go a lot further than competitors but about 40% of our work is from refrences. Do a good job and the work keeps coming. Do one bad job and it will haunt you.

d'Oracle - A lot of assessors out there are charging in and around €310 and they are sending out a dogs-body to gather info. We send an assessor, go further to gain more information and do the imaging for free while competitors are charging at least €100 for imaging on top of the BER assessment, not including a follow up after improvements.

frank, you cannot 'prove actual u values' from thermal imaging...

can you expand on what you mean here please....

d'Oracle

sydthebeat wrote: »

frank, you cannot 'prove actual u values' from thermal imaging...

Im completly sure that he suggested nothing of the sort.

sydthebeat

well, then i hope he can explain the difference between what he does to determine u values and what the 'ordinary' assessor does...

i really hope to god he doesnt take planning drawings and try to work out u values from these.......

sinnerboy

Me-thinks the newcomers FOR and DOR are doing a new dance together .... the SPAM

sydthebeat

We do a package specifically tailored to landlords. It's in a lower price bracket than an assessment for a homeowner usually comes in at the same rate we charge for a 2 bed apartment.

We generally offer the standard BER assessment but we use default values. We do however still give them a list of dwelling specific improvements. We don't do the imaging for them but it's an option if they want it, for a fee of course

could you answer my question please frank

d'Oracle

sinnerboy wrote: »

Me-thinks the newcomers FOR and DOR are doing a new dance together .... the SPAM

No.
No Im not.

Are you are assuming that just because I am new to these forums I dont know what I am talking about?

Or are you just bored and trolling?

d'Oracle

sydthebeat wrote: »

could you answer my question please frank

I think he was answering mine.....

sydthebeat

d'Oracle wrote: »

I think he was answering mine.....

seeing as you were answering my questions to him, i would him to answer them himself....

specifically, what he does differently to assess and calculate u values...

Frank...

please answer the direct question....

how does either using the thermal camera, or getting plans off the council, aid you in calculating the u values of construction???

sinnerboy

d'Oracle wrote: »

No.
No Im not.

Are you are assuming that just because I am new to these forums I dont know what I am talking about?

Or are you just bored and trolling?

Good . No . No .

sinnerboy

sydthebeat => See above for answer

Me-thinks someone else who is doing BER assessments just realised he is doing a half-assed job of it..

Not so . You should read the forum charter however .....

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

Frank...

please answer the direct question....

He wasn't able to answer before now and I can guarantee he wont be answering after this.

Now I have a little weeding detective work to do to see what other unwanted species are around.

muffler

Sorry lads but I wanted that name removed from all posts so apologies for the edits.

hurlerman

Thanks for all the feedback and info.

Still not convinced by aspects of the BER but how and ever I see that finding a reliable assessor and looking for more detailed info is what I'd need to do if I had another one.

Maybe SEI should so a better job of explaining steps to the average joe soap and providing a bit more transparency in their processes.

d'Oracle

Hurlerman.

Im not sure how to allay your suspicions, or what exactly is bothering you about BER and the process.

I know the DEAP (the procedure) pretty well and although its not perfect, it is sound. However problems (sometimes big ones) can arise with poor assessors. If you have a carpenter come to put up a stud wall, and it falls over a day after he finishes, you dont criticise the practice of studwork.

I would also point out however that a lot of people dont realise how bad their houses are from an energy point of view. Practice has not been good, up untill the 2005 regulations.

legs akimbo.

The generated improvements report is merely to beef up the overall package and assessors use it to justify their fees as though it were a work of art they have crafted themselves.
A good assessor, and by this I mean someone that has intricate knowledge of building practices, materials functionallity of such, can generate and supply a truly usefull improvements agenda. More so than someone who is exceptionally computer literate with a finely tuned grasp of using the DEAP software alone.
I always give a personalised improvements report, with estimated costings for varying implementations on a V.F.M. scale, as well as the physical effect on the incremented BER scale and an estimated energy consumption in € to compare with € after completion of improvements.
Higher cost improvements and estimations are also covered, as well as upon request recomendations of qualified trades to undertake said works.
It is not time consuming other than that spent collecting data and storing it relative to where, as and when you need to retrieve it.
You can store alot of information and make relevant calculations through excel. Understanding what you put into your proposals is a matter of experience.
P.S. Thanks Syd for the link you sent me at AAM.

sinnerboy

legs akimbo. wrote: »

The generated improvements report is merely to beef up the overall package and assessors use it to justify their fees as though it were a work of art they have crafted themselves.
A good assessor, and by this I mean someone that has intricate knowledge of building practices, materials functionallity of such, can generate and supply a truly usefull improvements agenda. More so than someone who is exceptionally computer literate with a finely tuned grasp of using the DEAP software alone.
I always give a personalised improvements report, with estimated costings for varying implementations on a V.F.M. scale, as well as the physical effect on the incremented BER scale and an estimated energy consumption in € to compare with € after completion of improvements.
Higher cost improvements and estimations are also covered, as well as upon request recomendations of qualified trades to undertake said works.
It is not time consuming other than that spent collecting data and storing it relative to where, as and when you need to retrieve it.
You can store alot of information and make relevant calculations through excel. Understanding what you put into your proposals is a matter of experience.
P.S. Thanks Syd for the link you sent me at AAM.

I would not go that far - but I accept the general thrust of your post .

The market demands 2 types of assement .

1. cheap fast , don't really care what "the piece of paper" says I just need to get my f-ing house / apartment sold / let & I don't give a monkeys - Voila - the €200 cert inc VAT + SEI fee ( with auto generated improvements report )

2. Second type of assement - i have outlined at post # 6

.

legs akimbo.

My remark was not dig at Assessors, its simply that a BER is offered with an advisory report, that is generated by default its true value is derisory....but it sounds good !
A beneficial report of real value should be a pre requisite not a bonus bonanza to be paid for at an added premium.

sinnerboy

legs akimbo. wrote: »

My remark was not dig at Assessors, its simply that a BER is offered with an advisory report, that is generated by default its true value is derisory....but it sounds good !
A beneficial report of real value should be a pre requisite not a bonus bonanza to be paid for at an added premium.

Ok . Don't want to flog this to death . Not everyone will want or care for this

Now if you intend to spend your time preparing tailor made solutions for every client you will not be able to compete and stay afloat yourself

You ideas about a matrix of you own making factoring in costs / benefits sound to me like you are simply going to systemise a method yourself for a process that simply can't be . You are going only a little step step further than the SEI auto report with this approach . And .... if you don't do this - you will go out of business .

My view is - as posted before - 2 types of punter ( only ) no middle ground .

For the sake of all reading - I will leave it at that

phelangroovy

For my humble contribution to this..

A ber is now required by law before selling or renting. The vendor/landlord needs to comply with the law and will at the lowest possible price. I cannot afford so send someone out to carry out a ber as I would insist it is done correctly.

We need to seperate the requirement for a BER cert with the wish to provide a comfortable economic home. mabey we could come up with a different name for that (CEH cert) and only people who are interested in the answer and willing to pay for it will seek a CEH cert...or am I just being naive.:cool:

d'Oracle

phelangroovy wrote: »

For my humble contribution to this..

A ber is now required by law before selling or renting. The vendor/landlord needs to comply with the law and will at the lowest possible price. I cannot afford so send someone out to carry out a ber as I would insist it is done correctly.

We need to seperate the requirement for a BER cert with the wish to provide a comfortable economic home. mabey we could come up with a different name for that (CEH cert) and only people who are interested in the answer and willing to pay for it will seek a CEH cert...or am I just being naive.:cool:

I dont think you are being naive, just not getting the point.
The BER has been made mandatory, so that people buying or renting a property have an idea of how much it will cost to heat.
Same Idea as knowing how much a fridge will cost to run, by its Energy Rating.

If you are not selling, then there isnt a requirement to have one.
Its a decent enough methodology to use as a basis for improvements, but thats it.

I cant, for the life of me, understand why anyone would choose to get one when its not legally required.

dunie001

A beneficial report of real value should be a pre requisite not a bonus bonanza to be paid for at an added premium.

That's ridiculous...over 3/4 of the people who will end up getting a BER Cert carried out won't give a monkey's as to what the Rating is just that they have the "bit o' paper" to keep the whole lot legal.

If the purchaser wants to beef up the insulation and replace the boiler etc. etc. in their newly purchased dwelling then that's entirely up to them, but the person selling or letting the house isn't going to bother doing anything to the house unless they are forced to do so because they cannot get any tenants, buyers.

Once the Cert is produced and the purchaser buys the house, it is then the purchaser that will be approaching the BER assessor to get an improvement report drawn up of possible improvements that could be carried out.

And concequently will also be purchasing a new BER cert for the house to reflect all the fantastic improvements they made, so that they can show off their great house to all their jealous neighbours...

It's that magic cross over point from seller to purchaser when the BER Assessors should be kicking into top gear to really sell themselves as proper energy savers...and they are the assessors that will stay afloat.

d'Oracle

I think the big opportunity is for renovating contractors.
Have a good Carpenter, Plumber and Spark who know what they are doing.
Then offer a service where you use DEAP to establish a Baseline, then work with the client to decide what level of improvement, spend and intrusion they want. Price it up and then issue the BER when the job is done.

Probably stating the obvious here, but its a good business model.

ben bedlam

the whole BER thing is *****

edit:

syd

d'Oracle

ben bedlam wrote: »

the whole BER thing is *****

I get the impression you wouldnt know....

sinnerboy

ben bedlam wrote: »

the whole BER thing is *****

Ben .... get a life

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59100600&postcount=5

ardara1

ben bedlam wrote: »

the whole BER thing is *****

I know of a new commercial property that had a survey completed on the behest of a VERY large UK retailer - the resultant label was not to their standards (Air permeability failed misserably), and retro upgrade to meet that standard impossible - the retailer walked away - the property is still empty.

Corporate bodies will not waste money needlessly - they do not want to be associated with environmently bad premises.(Some publish their certificate at building entrance)

Domestic properties will go the same way eventually.

Behaps a BAD BER is a B****X ?????

dunie001

no offense to anyone...but this topic is gone away from the original issue...a long way away;)

sydthebeat...you should probably stop this thread completely...

just a thought.

sinnerboy

Section 16

Public authority buildings and buildings frequently visited by the public should set an example by taking environmental and energy considerations
into account and therefore should be subject to
energy certification on a regular basis. The dissemination
to the public of this information on energy performance
should be enhanced by clearly displaying these energy
certificates.

sydthebeat

dunie001 wrote: »

no offense to anyone...but this topic is gone away from the original issue...a long way away;)

sydthebeat...you should probably stop this thread completely...

just a thought.

i agree dunie,

the OP probably has had his/her query answered on the first page....

I think we can let the thread continue once posters stay to the topic.....

lets use this thread to debate the pros and cons of either a generic generated advisory report or a dwelling specific one.

If the debate is carrid out in a courteous and professional manner, perhaps i will mail a link to SEI for their comments...

Ben bedlam...... you are welcome to contribute in a constructive manner once you can argue your corner... but if you post in the same manner as your last post in this thread, action wil be taken against you....

legs akimbo.

dunie001 wrote: »

That's ridiculous...over 3/4 of the people who will end up getting a BER Cert carried out won't give a monkey's as to what the Rating is just that they have the "bit o' paper" to keep the whole lot legal.

If the purchaser wants to beef up the insulation and replace the boiler etc. etc. in their newly purchased dwelling then that's entirely up to them, but the person selling or letting the house isn't going to bother doing anything to the house unless they are forced to do so because they cannot get any tenants, buyers.

Once the Cert is produced and the purchaser buys the house, it is then the purchaser that will be approaching the BER assessor to get an improvement report drawn up of possible improvements that could be carried out.

And concequently will also be purchasing a new BER cert for the house to reflect all the fantastic improvements they made, so that they can show off their great house to all their jealous neighbours...

It's that magic cross over point from seller to purchaser when the BER Assessors should be kicking into top gear to really sell themselves as proper energy savers...and they are the assessors that will stay afloat.[/quote]






Sorry Dunie but I think this is just wishfull thinking. As you state at the beginning of your post 75% just want the cert full stop and dont give a monkeys. This will then apply to the purchaser of a house, they will not be going to any lengths to have an additional BER done, why would they, its their house. By its very nature the new home owners BER should be telling them what needs improveing, they then do this, but they wont be paying someone €XXX to tell them what they already know.
As far as additional improvement agendas are concerned I think most have missed the point, its about marketing your business, Ok a bit strong of me to suggest it should be compulsory, but, as is common knowledge most clients just want the cert and cheaply but they do want a good rating and more importantly they want to see that this "stealth tax" as it is perceived is going to give them at least some value for money.
So the more you can give for minimum effort the better the chance of continual business.
In some respects its no more than a placebo to clients, that they are getting something extra....with little care or concern that it is actually very worthwhile.
The super economy Assessor will have his niche but so too will the quality assessor and at the end of the day its an added cost service that is universally going to be begrudgingly availed of.
Might not be for everyone but an extra half hour for me on an assessment is worthwhile when I have all the info I need at my fingertips.

dunie001

This will then apply to the purchaser of a house, they will not be going to any lengths to have an additional BER done, why would they, its their house. By its very nature the new home owners BER should be telling them what needs improveing, they then do this, but they wont be paying someone €XXX to tell them what they already know.

I'm mainly talking about people who buy existing properties. Why should we spend an hour of our time writing up an improvement report for the person selling the house, when they will never use it to improve the house...and probably wouldn't bother passing on the list to the purchaser.

That's why I mentioned about doing the list for the person who just bought the house...of course they would have to approach us to do it, which is where the kink in my plan is...they probably wouldn't bother.

just to put the "spending an extra half hour to do the report doesn't bother me" into perspective...would a builder stay around to paint your house for nothing once it's built just because he might have a few tins of paint in the back of his van...i doubt.

Or would your accountant spend an extra hour balancing your accounts just because he has your accounts sitting in front of him? No...

So why should we...although I agree with you that the client would value our services more and would be more likely to come back if we did do a proper improvement report for nothing. But if we did that, we'd never make enough money to earn a half decent wage from the BER Certs...

At the moment I'm barely earning more than the dole...

legs akimbo.

I agree to an extent but as for time it is similair to getting a quote from a builder, some may write it out on the back of a tatty envelope where I have always made a concise effort to present any quotation clearly and well presented with full detail. It meant getting far more work than I lost even if it took me longer at the desk. Time spent is money earned.
Presumptions of follow on BER's from a house sale just wont happen, and if they were to, I dont think an assessor will be able to command a full fee for a property he has already assessed.
If the market were fruitfull I certainly would not bother, as it is its quantity as well as quality at a p**s poor price with this whole thing as far as I can see.

dunie001

To be perfectly honest with you legs akimbo...i'll more than likely be doing improvement reports free of charge as well. Like you said, anything to make your price feel like a better quality package than joe soap down the road will help get more work...:D

To date I haven't bothered doing one up, but since the times are getting tighter and tighter, I need to do everything i can to justify my relatively low prices...

Although I still wouldn't bother doing it for builders...simply because any that I did assessments for before never even looked at the rating on the cert. So the chances of them looking at the improvement report would be slight.

But saying that, I can't do one for some and none for others!:rolleyes:

MEONLY

dunie001 wrote: »

To be perfectly honest with you legs akimbo...i'll more than likely be doing improvement reports free of charge as well. Like you said, anything to make your price feel like a better quality package than joe soap down the road will help get more work...:D

To date I haven't bothered doing one up, but since the times are getting tighter and tighter, I need to do everything i can to justify my relatively low prices...

Although I still wouldn't bother doing it for builders...simply because any that I did assessments for before never even looked at the rating on the cert. So the chances of them looking at the improvement report would be slight.

But saying that, I can't do one for some and none for others!:rolleyes:

Do you see what pressures for business can bring with it??

Having being in the position of doing an Existing BER for house for sale, where both buyer and seller had agreed terms. BER was a formality piece of paper requested by solicitor for matters to progress fully.

I did the required BER and when it came to the Advisory Report I began to think of my PI insurance.
What if I produced a report much superior to the generic SEI report (my subjective view) and if my(superior) report was the cause of the sale falling through, could the seller have a case against me for loss of sale?

Call me a coward if you like but I deleted the matters on the generic report not (in my view) relevant to the house in question and selected the ones I could stand over with a bible in my hand.
The thinking being that whats left is SEI advisory report. Now I thought this was the answer to my dilema.
However I am now wondering about having made any changes whatsoever to the generic SEI Advisory Report? Does these changes, made by me, mean that it reverts back to my report again because I made some changes.
If you hear of a case of a client taking action for the loss of a sale against a BER assessor on these grounds, its probably me.
Jesus I hope this sale goes through!!!
Oh!!! am I impartial or do I now have a vested interest in the sale of this house?
Reply on postcards please to

sinnerboy

In common law any body can take a case against any body for anything

Sobering thought but if we think like that none of us would do anything

You have to carfefully exercise judgement- which sounds like what you are doing

Sales will fall through for many reasons now - and a BER cert may be to obscure the true reasons . Still I would not like to be the subject of even a spurious claim .

Tough times indeed in many ways

No6

A lot of sales will fall through at the moment because the banks will not give the funding required to the purchaser, any bets on these purchasers then turning around and blaming the BER cert to save face, particurarly where they are currently only being looked for (in my experience) where the sale is agreed

topcatcbr

If you remember John (No 6) we were talking to an engineer in athlone who's primary business was getting clients out contracts for purchasing property. He was doing it based on the property not being the exact same as the property advertised based on Structural and condition survey. Also on the fact that homes are rarely exactly on the site as the site layout or land survey shows. It is inevitable that the BER will also be used if it is possible to do so.

No6

I missed that bit David, I knew he did a lot of condition survey's and structrual surveys though (which have also been used to get people out of a deal) Makes you realise the absolute importance of good PI cover