Ministers using Air Corps as a taxi service

spadder

I tried to get answers to my question over on the military forum without success,

I want to know what the defence force’s policy is on ferrying ministers around the country in choppers with the state cars racing around after them trying to keep up.

For example: Minister Harney promises a friend that she would officially open his pub in some back water down the country, now she really doesn’t want to waste her evening driving down in the state car and back again, so she rings up the the Air corp and says “Hello Captain Biggles, I want to go to Leitrim tonight at 6pm and back again“.

Now can Biggles say “sorry minister, we're busy and you shouldn't really be wasting state funds like this”?

Or are they obliged to say “ Yes minister, and what in-flight meal would you like on your flight?”

diverdriver

The Air Corps are not busy and as the helicopters they bought are not military spec. They have plenty of time to fly ministers around.:(

Why pick on Harney anyway. They're all at it.

But to answer the question the Minister doesn't just take a notion and ring the Air Corps for a trip. It has to go through channels, I think through the Taoiseach's office. Once approved the Minister, organises it with the Air Corps. I somehow doubt that a pub opening would be approved any more.

It is my opinion, expressed before, that the government shouldn't be using the Air Corps to transport them around rather expensively. If a helicopter or jet is required there are many operators around who can provide a VIP service as required rather than keep an expensive fleet and personnel waiting to be used. The Air Corps as a whole is an expensive flying club and need to be reduced to it's proper role, support of the army.

Dannyboy83

It appears that the Taoiseach needs to approve all such flights.

In reality, I would say it is much more informal than this, probably the Taoiseach is told after the event, or some minister is told but the Taoiseach is only told directly when all hell breaks loose, as in the case of Willie O Dea wasting E164,000 flying to Texas

http://www.limerickindependent.com/local-news/local-news/o%92dea%92s-office-hits-back-at-%91dell-trip%92-criticism/

p.s. fair play to O'Keefe for doing something about it, the rest of the shower did nothing.

You can also see that the explanations given for the flights to Paris & Brussels are blatant lies.

And the one to Texas could easily have been rescheduled to Tuesday evening or Wendesday morning

Poccington

spadder wrote: »

Now can Biggles say “sorry minister, we're busy and you shouldn't really be wasting state funds like this”?

Or are they obliged to say “ Yes minister, and what in-flight meal would you like on your flight?”

All members of the DF are required to follow all lawful orders, regardless of how they feel about them. The results of not doing so would be getting charged, fined etc.

So if the AC are contacted and a Lieutenant or Captain is told "Right Sir, you're gonna be flying this eejit down to Carlow" well then they have to do it. It might be ridiculous, it is most certainly a waste of funds but unfortunately it's a lawful order.

Manic Moran

There are times when the extra effort of a private jet is required, even at the higher costs, but I'm not sure how it works out in the long run. My understanding is that the G-Jets are some incredibly high-hour/usage aircraft, far more than most of their type, implying that they're getting some usage out of them. If they weren't being used at all, that's a waste of money as well, the more they get used, the greater the value one gets.

NTM

spadder

The reason I asked, yesterday I was on working on a building site beside Trim GAA pitch, the new Aircorp chopper came in very low and made a few turns. I had my camera with me, being a bit of a plane spotter I took a few shots of the chopper. The local lads on the site said “here’s Dempsey”. sure enough the chopper lands and out jumps Noel Dempsey like Robert Duvall in “Apocalypse now”. Apparently this is a regular occurrence.

A Garda car was there to meet him, not sure if the state car was there too.

dave-higgz

diverdriver wrote: »

Why pick on Harney anyway. They're all at it.

The increased weight on the helicopter would call for a lot more fuel consumption!

Manic Moran

I guess there's also the issue of currency.

Pilots need to have a certain amount of hours per time period in order to stay current on a type. Given that Army use of the things (Especially outside of the ARW) is pretty limited, if they've got to be flying, does it really matter who they're flying or where to? It's like that time that William got into trouble for landing a CH-47 in his girlfriend's back yard. Sure, it was a bit of a show-off stunt, but the purpose of the required training was to fly from A Point to an impromptu location and land, which was achieved. If he could get a little utility out of it, then what the hey?

NTM

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

Manic Moran

William, son of Charles, brother of Harry.

http://www.armedforces-int.com/news/2008/04/20/mod-defends-princes-chinook-middleton-field-landing.asp

NTM

Dannyboy83

Manic Moran wrote: »

I guess there's also the issue of currency.

Pilots need to have a certain amount of hours per time period in order to stay current on a type. Given that Army use of the things (Especially outside of the ARW) is pretty limited, if they've got to be flying, does it really matter who they're flying or where to? It's like that time that William got into trouble for landing a CH-47 in his girlfriend's back yard. Sure, it was a bit of a show-off stunt, but the purpose of the required training was to fly from A Point to an impromptu location and land, which was achieved. If he could get a little utility out of it, then what the hey?

NTM

Could they maybe transport people awaiting surgery?
Or people over traffic?

It seems awfully wasteful having a car for the minister, a driver for the car and the fuel, tax, insurance etc. paid for the car............when the minister is in a helicopter and the car is racing behind it on the road.

diverdriver

Could they maybe transport people awaiting surgery?

They do sometimes, but that job could be done more efficiently by a proper air ambulance.

dave-higgz

Well guys, I don't think Ministers will be using the Air Corps as a Taxi Service anymore!

Minister Martin Cullen's helicopter today lost it's door and had to make an emergency landing!! :eek:

Only happened an hour ago.

Karma??

jmayo

spadder wrote: »

...
I want to know what the defence force’s policy is on ferrying ministers around the country in choppers with the state cars racing around after them trying to keep up.

For example: Minister Harney promises a friend that she would officially open his pub in some back water down the country, now she really doesn’t want to waste her evening driving down in the state car and back again, so she rings up the the Air corp and says “Hello Captain Biggles, I want to go to Leitrim tonight at 6pm and back again“.

Now can Biggles say “sorry minister, we're busy and you shouldn't really be wasting state funds like this”?

Or are they obliged to say “ Yes minister, and what in-flight meal would you like on your flight?”

Listen as other poster said don't blame the pilots or even the Air Corps commanders, they would find their budget shot to s*** next year if they started being awkward.

Oh and get the story straight for God's sake.
Harney was transported by Casa (twin engine aircraft normally used for fisheries patrols etc) to Sligo where her driver who had driven down from Dublin was waiting to ferry her to the opening of an Off License in Co. Leitrim.
Going home the process was reversed I believe.
Now that is wastage.

dave-higgz wrote: »

The increased weight on the helicopter would call for a lot more fuel consumption!

She was in an airplane and I hear they did indeed need longer runway distance to get off the ground that evening

dave-higgz wrote: »

Well guys, I don't think Ministers will be using the Air Corps as a Taxi Service anymore!


Minister Martin Cullen's helicopter today lost it's door and had to make an emergency landing!! :eek:

Only happened an hour ago.

Karma??

He he there is a God or else someone who finally wants to see the back of that twat cullen.
Dempsey getting an AW139 out to Trim is fukcing joke.
Why doesn't he use the road like everyone else ?

spadder

Anyone know what important business the useless gobsh1te was doing in Kerry that necessitated the use of a military chopper?

Darragh29

dave-higgz wrote: »

Well guys, I don't think Ministers will be using the Air Corps as a Taxi Service anymore!

Minister Martin Cullen's helicopter today lost it's door and had to make an emergency landing!! :eek:

Only happened an hour ago.

Karma??

The offending door probably couldn't listen to him for another second.

Tipsy Mac

spadder wrote: »

Anyone know what important business the useless gobsh1te was doing in Kerry that necessitated the use of a military chopper?

He is above criticism, he's the chap who gave the green light for the electronic voting machine, quality Fianna Fail chap

spadder

Darragh29 wrote: »

The offending door probably couldn't listen to him for another second.

He probably wanted to arrive like Robert Duvall in "apocalypse now" stepping off the skid of the chopper.

eoinbn

dave-higgz wrote: »

Well guys, I don't think Ministers will be using the Air Corps as a Taxi Service anymore!

Minister Martin Cullen's helicopter today lost it's door and had to make an emergency landing!! :eek:

Only happened an hour ago.

Karma??

Maybe the public anger is getting out of control

Dannyboy83

Darragh29 wrote: »

The offending door probably couldn't listen to him for another second.

FPMSL:D:D:D

Does anyone know what the outcome was?

What actually happened?

ziggy

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Manic Moran

ziggy wrote: »

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Well, given how much pride Irish people apparently take in local affairs...

NTM

Raiser

FFS

The Country is tiny, theres no call for them to be flown here and there at our expense while their cars and drivers are paid for and not utilised.

Maybe if they planned, budgeted for and actually built some decent roads they wouldn't sneakily prefer to fly everywhere - w@nkers.

old boy

but the cuts never start at the top, just look at the 1% employment levy, it does not apply to barristers, oh yeah lenihan is one, he is also married to another,