Garage conversion.

Hellrazer

Mods feel free to move this if its the wrong forum.

Anyway decided to convert the garage into another sitting room and since Im going to do most of the work myself so I need a bit of help from you knowledgeable folks.

Garage is approx 36 ft x 10 wide x 8 high.,concrete floor,poured concrete roof (Im told) although I never heard of a poured concrete roof on a garage.

I want to make this room as best insulated as I can and I also need to raise the floor by 8 inches to keep it level with the rest of the house.

Questions are
1.Best method for raising the floor and keeping it warm?Wooden joists or poured concrete?There will be a solid wooden floor going on top to match the rest of downstairs.

2.If I go with wood whats the best method for insulating under it.

3.Wall and roof insulation--Since I dont really have much height to play with whats the best method for insulating the roof--a builder recommend the insulated plaster board that Id be using on the wall but how good is this stuff insulation wise?

3.Heating-on the opposite side of one of the walls theres a rad--Any recuperssions of taking a feed from this to the new room?

4.Electrics--The fuse board is in the garage and from looking at neighbours houses most of them seem to leave them in place but Id prefer to move mine to outside under the new window thats going in but I just want to know if I need to get the ESB to do this or can I get an ordinary electrician to do it?

5.Last one--Im told I need no planning permission for this as long as the window is under a certain distance from the boundry of the property and the conversion is under 40 sq metres in size.Anyone know if this is correct?Im under the size limit and the distance to the boundry if Im reading it correctly would be well over the 11 metres allowed.
Cheers,
Richie.

Slig

Technically you are changing the front elevation (if your garage door is on the front) this should require planning permission.

Moving the distribution board(fuse box) could be alot of extra work.

Insulating the ceiling is only really necessary if there is a roof overhead. In this case insulating between and above the ceiling joists is best. If its a concrete slab then there will need to be insulation put in below.

Ask your plumber about the rad, is the boiler able to take an extra rad?

Your garage floor is probably 100mm lower than the other floors in the house (minimum 100mm lower or an upstand of 100mm at the door is needed)Putting in 25mm of insulation and 75mm screed is probably easiest. There are proprietry screeds that dont need to be as deep but I dont know how they would work with insulation under them. If its 200mm then 100mm screed and 100mm insulation is the way to go.

Hellrazer

Cheers for that.
I had an architect look at it for me and he said I dont need PP to convert.But you know the usual friend of a friend stuff--will tell you anything
Will get a second opinion on it.

The roof doesnt have joists--its like a huge slab of concrete so the insualtion will need to go below this.

I had a feeling that the fuse board would be a problem,probably the reason why none of the neighbours have moved theirs.

The plumber says it will take an extra rad alright so I should be okay there.

Slig wrote: »

Technically you are changing the front elevation (if your garage door is on the front) this should require planning permission.

Moving the distribution board(fuse box) could be alot of extra work.

Insulating the ceiling is only really necessary if there is a roof overhead. In this case insulating between and above the ceiling joists is best. If its a concrete slab then there will need to be insulation put in below.

Ask your plumber about the rad, is the boiler able to take an extra rad?

Your garage floor is probably 100mm lower than the other floors in the house (minimum 100mm lower or an upstand of 100mm at the door is needed)Putting in 25mm of insulation and 75mm screed is probably easiest. There are proprietry screeds that dont need to be as deep but I dont know how they would work with insulation under them. If its 200mm then 100mm screed and 100mm insulation is the way to go.

muffler

Hellrazer wrote: »

I had an architect look at it for me and he said I dont need PP to convert.But you know the usual friend of a friend stuff--will tell you anything
Will get a second opinion on it.

Its one of those little anomalies in the P & D Acts. One part will say that permission is needed if you alter the external facade of the house while the exempted development part allows you convert the garage. While there is no direct mention of replacing the garage door with a window its obviously part and parcel of the conversion.

I have certified these a few times in the past and I always confirm that it is exempt.

Hellrazer

Hate to drag up this topic again but here goes.

Garage window was fitted on Wednesday--triple glazed argon filled A rated window,sitting on cavity blocks which were filled with loose fill insulation.

Now my question is regarding the insulation of the room to be.


Ive had a Ber assessor out who said that I dont need to insulate the walls on either side of the garage(one side is the house side and the other side is the neighbours side which is already converted) because both are not open to the elements if that makes sense.
Anyone agree with this?

Now about the roof--Ive been told that 50mm warm boards are my best option and since the roof is concrete I can use these fitted directly to the concrete roof using mushroom fittings.Again Im unsure because someone else told me I need to batten it out first and then fit the boards.

And finally the floor--whats the easiest way to insulate a suspended wooden floor?Its going to be suspended 8 inches above the concrete floor thats already there.

Thanks again,

Richie.

Hellrazer

Hope you lot can help me out with something--again I hate dragging an old topic up.

However,I gave up on the idea of doing the work myself and got a builder in but Im a bit concerned about his ideas for insulating the roof and today I had a bit of a run in with one of them because I questioned the type of insulation he was going to install--He was installing the superfoil stuff--multi layer foil-He actually said it was the same as installing 200mm of glasswool.I did a search here and from what Im reading this stuff is next to useless especially for the application here.Was I wrong to go against him with not me not wanting this stuff fitted??


Can anyone advise me on the best type of insulation for this roof.Im willing to pay someone for the advice.
Again the roof of the garage is basically one large concrete slab with felt above it on the outside--there are no joists on the inside.

This room used to get absolutely freezing in the winter so insulation is a priorty.The external walls will be drylined with the 50mm warm boards and now its just roof that needs finalising.

Help very much appreciated.

sydthebeat

Hellrazer wrote: »

However,I gave up on the idea of doing the work myself and got a builder in but Im a bit concerned about his ideas for insulating the roof and today I had a bit of a run in with one of them because I questioned the type of insulation he was going to install--He was installing the superfoil stuff--multi layer foil-He actually said it was the same as installing 200mm of glasswool.I did a search here and from what Im reading this stuff is next to useless especially for the application here.Was I wrong to go against him with not me not wanting this stuff fitted??

absolute rubbish... the multifoils on the market come nowhere to 200mm of quilted insulation... the most common type doesnt even compare to 100mm...
if you want to read the definitive answer... see here:
http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/planningandbuilding/pdf/multifoil.pdf

you are completely correct to demand they do not use that product!!!

the easiest way to insulate the ceiling is to use cosy boards... any thickness of 70mm will suffice.... however its not the optimum way of insulating... the optimum would be to remove the roof covering and insulate above the concrete slab...

if you insulate below the slab, you are bringing the point at which condensation will occur into the room... this is not advisable... a new build cold roof construction (like yours) is supposed to be ventilated abouve teh insulation level... but thats not possible in your situation... i assume...

therefore how do we reduce the risk of condensation problems?

one way is to use breathable insulation, like quilted material (cosy board is not breathable), and a vapour control layer like intello +, to allow the condensation, when it occurs to divert back into the room to evaporate away... the downside of this means you need to use thicker depths to make adequate u values....

a second way would be to ventilate behind the cosyboard. this would mean battening and counter battening under the slab, and ensuring a very well constructed seal between ceiling boards... (very hard to do in reality). this also means your ceiling drops an extra say 50mm (2 x 25mm battens)... and you also need to drill vent holes in teh area between the insulation and the concrete slab...

personally, id bite the bullet and remove the existing roof covering (it probably needs it anyway, if its torch on felt!). Id then have a free run to use as much insulation as i can (id use 200mm high density pu insulation). Id also put a good quality roof finishing membrane, personally id use trocal pvc membrane. This means you retain your internal ceiling height, your condensation point is located outside the structure, you do not need to ventilate the roof construction, and you end up with a construction that complies to all current regulations........

it may cost extra, but it will be done right...

Hellrazer

Thanks for that Syd.Im glad I told him not to use that foil stuff now.

As for removing the existing the existing roof covering--Thats not really an option either.It would mean a lot more work and honestly I havent got the money to down that road at the minute.


So lets say I decide to use "breatheable" insulation--whats the minimum depth that you would recommend and secondly are there products that are not as thick but have similar properties--ie is there an equivalent product that would achieve 300mm of rockwool in less thickness?

Its sounds like the best option for me both financially and practically and if its a case of loosing headroom then Ill just go with the lower ceiling height--sure it`ll be cosy

a second way would be to ventilate behind the cosyboard. this would mean battening and counter battening under the slab, and ensuring a very well constructed seal between ceiling boards... (very hard to do in reality). this also means your ceiling drops an extra say 50mm (2 x 25mm battens)... and you also need to drill vent holes in teh area between the insulation and the concrete slab...

Something similar was suggested to me except for the drilling of holes in the area between the two**edit--just read it again and its the same thing as venting above the insulation isnt it??**

What was suggested was that to batten the roof with 50 mm battens,attached the cosy boards to the battens--I know you said that it was hard to achieve a good seal between the battens but the way it was explained was that because the room is exactly 8 ft wide and these boards come in 8ft lenghts then it might be easier due to there being no cutting.The ventilation that was suggested was to have a vent at either end of the garage above the level of the cosy board in the exterior walls to stop condensation similar to whats under a wooden subfloor.

Idbatterim

hey guys, I have a garage (not attached) to the rear of the house, I note it is legal to build up to 25m2, is this the absolute limit? or can i go larger with planning permission?

sydthebeat

Idbatterim wrote: »

hey guys, I have a garage (not attached) to the rear of the house, I note it is legal to build up to 25m2, is this the absolute limit? or can i go larger with planning permission?

25m2 is the limit if you want to build WITHOUT permission

if you apply for permission there is no restriction in size other than normal development standards....

Overature

for insulating the oustide walls you can get plaster boards with foam on one side that you can "nail" onto the wall, did this in my house and it seemed to work

Idbatterim

will i be allowed install a toilet in the the garage conversion? or will they simply think It will be used as a little studio / apartment?

sydthebeat

Idbatterim wrote: »

will i be allowed install a toilet in the the garage conversion? or will they simply think It will be used as a little studio / apartment?

you can, no problem...

its only if you use the garage as a studio / apartment etc that trouble could happen... once its still used as a garage its fine...

ThePiedPiper

sydthebeat wrote: »

you can, no problem...

its only if you use the garage as a studio / apartment etc that trouble could happen... once its still used as a garage its fine...

Syd, can you put a toilet in the garage even if it wasn't on the plans?

Poor Uncle Tom

If your garage has planning permission and a condition of the planning states that the works should be built in compliance with the plans submitted which did not include a toilet, then you shouldn't include the toilet without first clearing it with the planners. If that condition is not included then you can add the toilet without a problem, and no window.

If you are building the garage as a development exempted from the provisions of planning permission, then you can add the toilet, no worries.

Idbatterim

another query, when measuring the 25m2 should it be done from outside, or inside? obviously if done from outside the actual floor surface area wont be 25m2 inside...

Poor Uncle Tom

The 25m2 is measured inside the external wall all around.

Idbatterim

ok thanks for clarifying so its measured inside the external wall around and not outside around the external wall! thanks!

Mellor

Idbatterim wrote: »

ok thanks for clarifying so its measured inside the external wall around and not outside around the external wall! thanks!

Exactly, inside the external walls (but including any internal walls).
So if its a single room, the usable floor space will be 25m2

jeepsterboy

Apologies to all if I'm in the wrong place. I did a search to see how to ask a question, but to be honest, I'm none the wiser.

But here goes....

I'm looking to buy a small house in Co Cork that has a detached garage along with it. The garage faces to the road, has an up and over door, and a little decorative parapet above the door. The roof is flat and constructed of timber joists and felt. The garage is dry and perfectly usable as a space, but rather than fill it with mowers and junk I need to use on a part-time basis, and I need to increase the head height in particular.

At the moment the internal height is approx 8 feet, but I need to fit a retractable spring balancer to a rail at around 9, 9.5 feet. So I wanted to ask if removing the flat roof and fitting a very shallow pitched roof would be approved - and do I in fact need planning for such a thing?

The other change is the up and over door - Ideally, so as to not have to depend entirely on overhead strip lighting, I'd like to remove this and replace with a window and door.

The garage doesn't overlook anyone, isn't near a neighbour, doesn't obstruct in any way. But I need to use it for something more than storage, and a window/door at the front, and a slight 'lift' to the roof would make it work for me in a way that it simply doesn't at the moment. I'd need to get electric to it, but nothing else....

If anyone can advise I'd be grateful.

Cheers!

Lumen

Planning depends on use. What will it be used for?

jeepsterboy

thanks.... just a bit of part time work, using a tufting gun and compressor.