I challenge any Psychic on boards.ie

dlofnep

Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me, either in person or on the forum.

This is how it will work.

You will firstly state exactly what it is you can do, in what detail, and specify what information you require. I will then verify whether or not what you have said is valid information or simply, just subtle cold reading.

I doubt any psychics on here have the courage to actually back up their claims, but should you do - I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

farna

Just to let u know I am not or have I ever claimed to be a psychic or anything else for that matter. And as for fraud I would not know where to start. There are still honest and decent people left in this world. Don't tar us all with same brush.

te=dlofnep;59128320]Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me, either in person or on the forum.

This is how it will work.

You will firstly state exactly what it is you can do, in what detail, and specify what information you require. I will then verify whether or not what you have said is valid information or simply, just subtle cold reading.

I doubt any psychics on here have the courage to actually back up their claims, but should you do - I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.[/quote]

dlofnep

There are no honest and decent psychics. I'm sure they are willing to prove me wrong. You obviously are not.

Gordon

dlofnep wrote: »

Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me

I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

It's not really the way to go if you set off on the assumption that they are a fraud and your investigations are going to prove this. I wouldn't be surprised if a legitimate psychic wouldn't want to waste their time if they are going to be proven non-psychic no matter what.

farna

I'm not psychic

dlofnep wrote: »

There are no honest and decent psychics.


I'm sure they are willing to prove me wrong. You obviously are not.

dlofnep

Gordon wrote: »

It's not really the way to go if you set off on the assumption that they are a fraud and your investigations are going to prove this. I wouldn't be surprised if a legitimate psychic wouldn't want to waste their time if they are going to be proven non-psychic no matter what.

There is not such thing as a legitimate psychic. They will have their chance to prove otherwise. And when these people earn millions every year ripping off customers, I have every right to challenge them and call them frauds, but not at any one point have they ever proved their claims.

Just last year, there was the head of a guy who runs an Irish psychic line - When questioned how he verifys if someone is a psychic or not to work for him, he had no answer and was left dumbfounded.. He then went on to say that it was just entertainment and that people were paying to be entertained. The presenter of the show then stated that people go on to get an accurate reading, and not to be entertained and if it was entertainment, then why was it advertised as psychic readings.

They are all fraudsters and need to be called for what they are.

dlofnep

farna wrote: »

I'm not psychic

Fair enough

farna

Gordon wrote: »

It's not really the way to go if you set off on the assumption that they are a fraud and your investigations are going to prove this. I wouldn't be surprised if a legitimate psychic wouldn't want to waste their time if they are going to be proven non-psychic no matter what.

I AGREE

dlofnep

Farna, you're going to have to forgive my lack of good-will towards Psychics.. I believe that they are thieves who offer a service which they do not provide. I do not know how they get away with it, but I believe that society should be much more lenient.

In order for a psychic to sell his/her services - they should be made to sit and pass an independant exam which can verify their claims. If they can do this, they I would happily endorse their services. If they cannot - it just further proves my claims that they are hoaxsters and liars.

Moreover, why hasn't one of them ever passed Randi's test? They've only had 45 years to do so, and a €1million incentive. If i was a psychic, I'd be quick to earn an easy million.

FlyOver

dlofnep wrote: »

They are all fraudsters and need to be called for what they are.

All the phone "psychic" services are registered as entertainment companies. They read off scripts. How do I know? Well I did research. Do your own and you'll realise that they are indeed fraudsters.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

Matt Holck

I always flinch when I hear the word "intuition" used

intuitions covers a realm of unawknowledge practical associative processes
like learning to difference between right and left

farna

Matt Holck wrote: »

I always flinch when I hear the word "intuition" used

intuitions covers a realm of unawknowledge practical associative processes
like learning to difference between right and left

FlyOver wrote: »

All the phone "psychic" services are registered as entertainment companies. They read off scripts. How do I know? Well I did research. Do your own and you'll realise that they are indeed fraudsters.
They have to register for entertainment purpose as its the law. Im well aware re scripts. I dont have to do research as Im not complaining about them:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

blackgold>>

Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me, either in person or on the forum.

This is how it will work.

You will firstly state exactly what it is you can do, in what detail, and specify what information you require. I will then verify whether or not what you have said is valid information or simply, just subtle cold reading.

I doubt any psychics on here have the courage to actually back up their claims, but should you do - I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

no point as nobody can prove they have said powers......
they're just liars.

karynp

eh,in all fairness,nobody who is psychic or a medium is gonna do this challenge as its so negative from the offset,is it not???
before its even been done its been written off, as its not open minded,no matter what information is passed on then the op will say not its not true or find some reason for the info being there,i believe any psychic here on these boards does not trust in this test.

themadchef

It would be one thing to try and convince someone who couldint care less either way. To try and convince someone who looking for "a fraud" from day one, well, you'd want to be mad

For a start they would be depending on your integrity to say wether or not they were correct in their information giving. You think their all frauds, whos to say you wont lie though? Devils advocate here.

No amount of information they could give you would be enough, no amount of proof would be enough... short of bringing back your long lost gran to make the tea for you.

Nice idea for a challenge, but way too negative imo.

Oryx

dlofnep wrote: »

....snipped your rant...- I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

I musta just ignored this the first time I read it, cos your negativity meant you werent going to listen, anyway.

Point one is that not all psychics are thieves. Cos some of em, believe it or not, dont charge. I predict* however, you will counter this point with some other unsupported claim that they delude people, or cause harm with what they do. Whatever. Some do. You will always find evidence of that. Same as you will always find plastic surgeons who do botch jobs. It dont mean they all do. As an objective sceptic, you should assume that.

Point two has already been mentioned here. I wouldnt square up to the biggest drunk guy in a pub and call him a gobsh!te. And I wont square up to you here to prove a point that I dont even want to prove. Personally, I work as a medium, so I dont predict diddly squat. I dont charge money. I see dead people, badumtish. But like themadchef said above unless I make your granny materialise beside you, youre gonna call fraud no matter what. Who in their right mind would take on a fight like that? I decided years ago not to fight with sceptics here, because the ones I usually meet here are so entrenched as to make it pointless. Those I have met irl, of course, are a different matter. Just ask 6th about the paranormal convention.
I dont make ridiculous claims about what I do, no responsible person who does this work will... and heres a tip to spot a fraud without the need for a challenge, a test, by Randi or anyone else. Ask: Do I need to pay upfront? And: Is this guaranteed to work every time? Anyone who says yes to either is a fraud. End of.

*does that get me a prize?

Tellox

Oh John, you and your **** stirring :pac:

I used to believe in psychics, mediums etc etc for a very long while. Then I picked up around 20 books on hypnosis, cold reading, stage mentalism and NLP, and can now disregard anything I've ever been told by a someone claiming to have unearthly powers.

Some of these characters are extremely intelligent in what they do - someone good enough at cold reading would be able to take one quick look at you and suss out a lot about you.

One good example I can think of is a card reader/psychic that was working at ****** 2 years back. The first thing she did was suss out which bands were playing at the moment (whom I obviously wasnt too interested in as I was in talking with her) - since it was mainly pop/****e bands playing at the time ala my chemical romance and the following bands were most of the same, she started telling me I was here to see Muse and Daft Punk - which of course was correct. She then asked me if I was enjoying myself up here, which is a clever move - she then looked to see where my eyes went.

Typically in this case, if your eyes were to look towards the left, you're thinking of the music. If you eye went to the top left (or top right in some cases), you're thinking of a person. This is normally an involuntary reaction. Ask someone to think strongly of a person, and imagine theyre standing right next to them, and they'll look to the top left or right - try it!

So of course, I thought of the girl I was up there with without even thinking, and she immediatly latched onto that, and asked me who the girl was. She moved on from there and asked me what age she was, and I replied giving her age on the button - so of course then she used the fact that I knew things about her to say that I travelled up there with her, and then threw out a few bland statements to suss out a bit more about me.

i.e: "It was her that made signals towards you in the beginning, wasnt it?" - almost everyone would say yes in this case, as I would strongly doubt any long-term relationship developed without the girl showing a remote bit of interest in the early stages. Depending on how much the subject tells (me in this case), you can try to suss out how confident a person they are - and thus make a few more bland statements such as "There's something you do that makes her worry a lot.." from speaking with me and the fact that she saw my suzuki bike keychain while I was taking out my money to hand her a tenner, she said "is it your motorcycle or the fact that you go out a lot that bothers her?"

Of course, being 20 at the time (and a smell of drink off me..and the fact that I'm at ******, and am friendly when speaking with strangers), it was obvious to assume that I have some sort of social life, and allowing her to state that I go out "a lot"(subject to opinion - some people consider once a week a lot, others consider once a month a lot..etc) without any fear of me telling her she's wrong.

I have of course seen a lot better than her, but none have ever convinced me that they possess any real powers. Most people simply believe in psychics/mediums etc because the idea of the paranormal can give them some closure in how their life is going to turn out, or that god exists, or that their dead friends and relatives are watching over them..etc etc. The final step would then come when investing into the belief by paying money to see one of these people.

In my (what I would call) educated opinion, I believe that mediums/psychics are rubbish, and are simply in it for the money - and if required, can help themselves sleep at night by thinking about the false closure they've given their clients. Others of course are simply bat**** crazy and actually believe they possess these powers.

Take that as you will - I'm sure plenty of people will disagree with me. All I can really recommend is to study the topics mentioned above and draw your own conclusions from it then.

Oryx

Tellox, I get that you have your experiences. I have mine. They differ. Theres no point in having a defensive debate, but it is good to exchange those experiences. Yours arent conclusive, neither are mine. But its interesting, nonetheless.

It is true that the tricks you mention are used. You even have to guard against using them unconciously. When you are learning about all this stuff 'from the inside' as it were, exercises are used where the normal visual and verbal cues are removed, in order to ensure they are not feeding info to the medium. I've given readings while blindfolded, from start to finish without any feedback. Its not 100% accurate, but well beyond chance. Good enough for the person to be identified beyond any doubt. Try that experiment yourself by guesswork and see if you can invent a person (not a grandparent...they seem to be generic) that can be indentified by your recipient. It is not at all easy, I wouldnt risk it for a few bob.

Re payment. I restate, many dont charge at all. So money is not always the reasoning behind it.

On your observation about eye movement. Christ, I wish I could concentrate hard enough to do that kind of analysis. But that would be harder than actually doing the medium stuff. And if you can do that from a platform in front of 100 people, the furthest being 25feet away... well fair play to ya. I tend not to look at the recipient at all, to the point of rudeness, cos expressions can lead you.

About the sussing out. When you meet someone in any situation, you immediately make assumptions about them, sure. Hmm. Yup, she looks old enough to have a dead granny... and I bet she likes motorbikes... But in what I do, you have to dismiss any such thoughts. Cos they can lead you astray. Tony Stockwell tells a great anecdote about meeting a dear old ancient devoutly religious italian woman, and seeing a man, in drag, in spirit for her. And she understood it. Whodve assumed that one?

To be perfectly honest, Im lazy. If this stuff involved a lot of effort, study and learning on my behalf, I couldnt be ar5ed. I do it cos tis fun, tbh. I really really am not sharp enough to scam someone to the degree you describe. And for nothing... why bother?

And cmon, make up your mind, are we bat crazy or intelligent? Which is it? My husband would like confirmation of what hes always thought.

Tellox

Oryx wrote: »

Tellox, I get that you have your experiences. I have mine. They differ. Theres no point in having a defensive debate, but it is good to exchange those experiences. Yours arent conclusive, neither are mine. But its interesting, nonetheless.

It is true that the tricks you mention are used. You even have to guard against using them unconciously. When you are learning about all this stuff 'from the inside' as it were, exercises are used where the normal visual and verbal cues are removed, in order to ensure they are not feeding info to the medium. I've given readings while blindfolded, from start to finish without any feedback. Its not 100% accurate, but well beyond chance. Good enough for the person to be identified beyond any doubt. Try that experiment yourself by guesswork and see if you can invent a person (not a grandparent...they seem to be generic) that can be indentified by your recipient. It is not at all easy, I wouldnt risk it for a few bob.

Re payment. I restate, many dont charge at all. So money is not always the reasoning behind it.

On your observation about eye movement. Christ, I wish I could concentrate hard enough to do that kind of analysis. But that would be harder than actually doing the medium stuff. And if you can do that from a platform in front of 100 people, the furthest being 25feet away... well fair play to ya. I tend not to look at the recipient at all, to the point of rudeness, cos expressions can lead you.

About the sussing out. When you meet someone in any situation, you immediately make assumptions about them, sure. Hmm. Yup, she looks old enough to have a dead granny... and I bet she likes motorbikes... But in what I do, you have to dismiss any such thoughts. Cos they can lead you astray. Tony Stockwell tells a great anecdote about meeting a dear old ancient devoutly religious italian woman, and seeing a man, in drag, in spirit for her. And she understood it. Whodve assumed that one?

To be perfectly honest, Im lazy. If this stuff involved a lot of effort, study and learning on my behalf, I couldnt be ar5ed. I do it cos tis fun, tbh. I really really am not sharp enough to scam someone to the degree you describe. And for nothing... why bother?

And cmon, make up your mind, are we bat crazy or intelligent? Which is it? My husband would like confirmation of what hes always thought.

Nothing says you can't be bat**** crazy and intelligent at the same time

I wouldn't go as far to say it's impossible to cold read by voice alone - a little harder yes, but it can definitely be done by someone with enough experience. I had an argument similar to this before, and wound up speaking with them on the phone about it. I studied a bunch of "psychic hotline" scripts too, as it's honestly a job I was considering doing for a while (and still am) to get myself through college.

Look up Derren Brown's "Tricycle" trick, which he performs over the phone. On a first watch (and even the following ones if you're not on the lookout), it seems absolutely amazing - just by speaking with someone over the phone for a few seconds, he writes down on paper what they're thinking about (a tricycle). He does this by subtley mentioning to imagine 3 cogs going around in their mind, one thinking of the object, one trying to allow their thoughts to flow freely, and another to write the name of the object on a chalkboard. In writing, it should be easy to figure that one out - 3 cogs, chalkboard (imagery of childhood) - most people say tricycle, or default to another form of travel. If someone is hooked by this type of technique, they'll subconsciously try to buy into everything you tell them.

But on the subject of just being far away from someone - eye movement is still very visable from across a room. It can even be a little easier as you can pick up on other subtle clues such as feet positioning (their feet will often turn slightly away from you if you pick up on an uncomfortable truth), hand movement.. general body language. Some people even turn their heads a little as their eyes move. Others however, are just hard to read no matter where they are.

On the matter of money though - Anytime I've ever done things like that, I always got a good laugh off it (and of course an ego boost) - I can see how plenty of people would just be happy with that.

Mind reading/psychic/medium etc over the phone is definitely very possible, and I would surely not go as far to say that I could be convinced just because I'm a client over the phone. If you're willing though, I'd be happy to give you a phonecall. And no checking my post history beforehand :P

Oryx

Tellox wrote: »

Nothing says you can't be bat**** crazy and intelligent at the same time

I wouldn't go as far to say it's impossible to cold read by voice alone - a little harder yes, but it can definitely be done by someone with enough experience. I had an argument similar to this before, and wound up speaking with them on the phone about it. I studied a bunch of "psychic hotline" scripts too, as it's honestly a job I was considering doing for a while (and still am) to get myself through college.

Look up Derren Brown's "Tricycle" trick, which he performs over the phone. On a first watch (and even the following ones if you're not on the lookout), it seems absolutely amazing - just by speaking with someone over the phone for a few seconds, he writes down on paper what they're thinking about (a tricycle). He does this by subtley mentioning to imagine 3 cogs going around in their mind, one thinking of the object, one trying to allow their thoughts to flow freely, and another to write the name of the object on a chalkboard. In writing, it should be easy to figure that one out - 3 cogs, chalkboard (imagery of childhood) - most people say tricycle, or default to another form of travel. If someone is hooked by this type of technique, they'll subconsciously try to buy into everything you tell them.

But on the subject of just being far away from someone - eye movement is still very visable from across a room. It can even be a little easier as you can pick up on other subtle clues such as feet positioning (their feet will often turn slightly away from you if you pick up on an uncomfortable truth), hand movement.. general body language. Some people even turn their heads a little as their eyes move. Others however, are just hard to read no matter where they are.

On the matter of money though - Anytime I've ever done things like that, I always got a good laugh off it (and of course an ego boost) - I can see how plenty of people would just be happy with that.

Mind reading/psychic/medium etc over the phone is definitely very possible, and I would surely not go as far to say that I could be convinced just because I'm a client over the phone. If you're willing though, I'd be happy to give you a phonecall. And no checking my post history beforehand :P

I dont guineapig on boards, cos its like a nest of vipers here. No offence. I dont detect the same hostility from you as I did from the op, so never say never. Phone reading would be new, so Id prefer to have experience of it, first.

You havent made mention the actual exercise I described, where a full link is given start to finish, with no verbal or visual feedback whatsoever, that fits a recognisable person. Thoughts?

The only reason Im posting any of this, is not cos I have a masochistic wish to argue. I just see sceptics writing off a whole area, based on what? Feedback from biased websites, James Randi, and Derren Brown (who I admire, btw)? My perception is that the more strident mindsets never seem to be based on their own individual research, just hearsay, which is a real shame. To write of a very intruiging area with one word: fraud.

Tellox

Oryx wrote: »

I dont guineapig on boards, cos its like a nest of vipers here. No offence. I dont detect the same hostility from you as I did from the op, so never say never. Phone reading would be new, so Id prefer to have experience of it, first.

You havent made mention the actual exercise I described, where a full link is given start to finish, with no verbal or visual feedback whatsoever, that fits a recognisable person. Thoughts?

The only reason Im posting any of this, is not cos I have a masochistic wish to argue. I just see sceptics writing off a whole area, based on what? Feedback from biased websites, James Randi, and Derren Brown (who I admire, btw)? My perception is that the more strident mindsets never seem to be based on their own individual research, just hearsay, which is a real shame. To write of a very intruiging area with one word: fraud.

Apologies that I skipped over this, but to have a look at the exercise given, the "man dressed in drag" remark - it's a very bland statement to say the least. I know plenty of guys who wound up in womens clothes one way or another (be it due to intoxication, being whipped by their girlfriend, thinking it's hilarious.. etc etc). If you believe in it strongly enough, you could even go back as far to a newborn child who someone accidently bought girls clothes for. There's so many links that can be drawn from that phrase that I wouldn't think it's worth arguing.

I write off the entire area because almost everyone has a "real experience" with a psychic or medium. My own mother was banging on about seeing one recently, so I did a cold reading on her and told her about one of my father's friends who helped look after me as a baby. I never met this man before, and would have been far too young to have any memory of it - all I did was make an assumption about "another man in her life, but it wasn't a physical relationship" - I can't think of a woman that this wouldn't work on. I did a few tricks like telling her what cards/objects she was thinking of beforehand to make her think I could read her mind. And even after I explained to her how it was all done, she still thinks I'm into black magic :rolleyes:

What I'm trying to get at here is that if some people really believe in it enough, they'll keep believing in it no matter what you tell them. Otherwise they're admitting to wasting x years in believing something which they now think is untrue. It's a similar principle for religion etc etc.

If you're not willing to provide a phone reading, that's all cool - but if it would so happen that you lived in a county near me (or somewhere I plan on travelling to), would you be interested in doing a reading then?

Oryx

The tony stockwell thing was a lot more precise and specific, its in one of his books and i heard him tell it as well.. I condensed it for brevity. Anyone with a will to could cold read. I can spot that, and barnum statements a mile off.. You have to get very specific in terms of description, personality, memories, or your not providing enough evidence. I dont know what kind of reading you know about, but the better ones are damn convincing. ...and will chat more about your meet idea.

starchild27

I have never been to see a physic and I would consider myself highly sceptical about the whole area. I have always felt fairly certain that these supposed 'powers' are nothing more than well polished skills. But I did read the story of Christine Holohan, an irish physic who solved that murder and found it quite astonishing :eek:

Maybe you could contact her.. see if shes up for a little challenge :cool:

deereidy

I'd like to have someone read me.
I'm totally indifferent, if the person comes up with specific details that ring true with me, I'll believe them. Doubt any people who believe themselves to be psychic are reading this though

threeleggedhors

Oryx wrote: »

I dont guineapig on boards, cos its like a nest of vipers here. No offence. I dont detect the same hostility from you as I did from the op, so never say never. Phone reading would be new, so Id prefer to have experience of it, first.

You havent made mention the actual exercise I described, where a full link is given start to finish, with no verbal or visual feedback whatsoever, that fits a recognisable person. Thoughts?

The only reason Im posting any of this, is not cos I have a masochistic wish to argue. I just see sceptics writing off a whole area, based on what? Feedback from biased websites, James Randi, and Derren Brown (who I admire, btw)? My perception is that the more strident mindsets never seem to be based on their own individual research, just hearsay, which is a real shame. To write of a very intruiging area with one word: fraud.

I wouldn't called Derren Brown's show "hearsay", the guy knows this stuff inside out which is how he's able to show it for the fake that it is. In one of his shows he was able to tell a woman what her dream was the night before. I'm amazed that anyone could watch it and still think there's something to Psychics, you're really fooling yourself. I can't understand how these people aren't in jail, pretending to have abilities, taking money from people and likely not to be paying taxes on it in alot of cases. Scandalous !!! Completely irresponsible taking advantage of superstitious people. Lock em all up !!! :mad:

Oryx

threeleggedhors wrote: »

I wouldn't called Derren Brown's show "hearsay", the guy knows this stuff inside out which is how he's able to show it for the fake that it is. In one of his shows he was able to tell a woman what her dream was the night before.

Youve kinda made my point for me if youve formed the opinions below from one tv show. I have a lot of time for Derren Brown. I think his show is amazing. But its a tv show.

I'm amazed that anyone could watch it and still think there's something to Psychics, you're really fooling yourself. I can't understand how these people aren't in jail, pretending to have abilities, taking money from people and likely not to be paying taxes on it in alot of cases. Scandalous !!! Completely irresponsible taking advantage of superstitious people. Lock em all up !!! :mad:

By your logic then, you should also lock up acupuncuturists, reiki practitioners, economic consultants, U2, and quite a few politicians.

Otaku Girl

dlofnep wrote: »

Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me, either in person or on the forum.

This is how it will work.

You will firstly state exactly what it is you can do, in what detail, and specify what information you require. I will then verify whether or not what you have said is valid information or simply, just subtle cold reading.

I doubt any psychics on here have the courage to actually back up their claims, but should you do - I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

Oh but did'nt you know?All the real psychics are too busy to respond,as they're living a life of luxuary in the Pacific after winning the Euro millions lottery every week with their mystic psychic powers....Oh wait,it does'nt work like that,does it?How (in)convinient.:rolleyes:

threeleggedhors

threeleggedhors wrote: »

I wouldn't called Derren Brown's show "hearsay", the guy knows this stuff inside out which is how he's able to show it for the fake that it is. In one of his shows he was able to tell a woman what her dream was the night before. I'm amazed that anyone could watch it and still think there's something to Psychics, you're really fooling yourself. I can't understand how these people aren't in jail, pretending to have abilities, taking money from people and likely not to be paying taxes on it in alot of cases. Scandalous !!! Completely irresponsible taking advantage of superstitious people. Lock em all up !!! :mad:

I was watching a show that was catching cowboy plumbers. Does this mean all plumbers are fake ???

Otaku Girl

Deleted User wrote: »

I was watching a show that was catching cowboy plumbers. Does this mean all plumbers are fake ???

That's a strawman arguement.We can see how a plumber works in physical reality,but we can't with a psychic. The validity of a plumbers work is empirically verifiable,a psychics is not.You can't compare the two.

threeleggedhors

Oryx wrote: »

Youve kinda made my point for me if youve formed the opinions below from one tv show. I have a lot of time for Derren Brown. I think his show is amazing. But its a tv show.

By your logic then, you should also lock up acupuncuturists, reiki practitioners, economic consultants, U2, and quite a few politicians.

I haven't drawn my opinion from just one show. I have never seen, witnessed or heard any evidence to suggest that any human being has posessed psychic abilities, if there was this thread would have been finished up a long time ago with some person displaying these wonderous abilities. The person at the start of the thread is looking for evidence, clearly there is none and never will be, it's a farce and i'll eat my hat if there is.......

No harm though in locking up all those guys too, we could create jobs building a state of the art prison.....

pH

threeleggedhors wrote: »

I wouldn't called Derren Brown's show "hearsay", the guy knows this stuff inside out which is how he's able to show it for the fake that it is. In one of his shows he was able to tell a woman what her dream was the night before. I'm amazed that anyone could watch it and still think there's something to Psychics

While I feel we're on the same side there's an important caveat to the above.

Derren is a magician, and magicians don't really do the things they pretend to do, that's a really important distinction. Derren made it appear to us (the TV viewer) that he could tell a woman what her dream was. There is a big difference from that and actually telling a woman what her dream was the night before - in the same way there's a huge difference between actually sawing a woman in half and putting her back together and appearing to saw a woman in half - if you get my point.

Derren doesn't actually do any of the things in his show - he's a magician - he just makes it look like he does

threeleggedhors

Oryx wrote: »

Youve kinda made my point for me if youve formed the opinions below from one tv show. I have a lot of time for Derren Brown. I think his show is amazing. But its a tv show.

By your logic then, you should also lock up acupuncuturists, reiki practitioners, economic consultants, U2, and quite a few politicians.

pH wrote: »

While I feel we're on the same side there's an important caveat to the above.

Derren is a magician, and magicians don't really do the things they pretend to do, that's a really important distinction. Derren made it appear to us (the TV viewer) that he could tell a woman what her dream was. There is a big difference from that and actually telling a woman what her dream was the night before - in the same way there's a huge difference between actually sawing a woman in half and putting her back together and appearing to saw a woman in half - if you get my point.

Derren doesn't actually do any of the things in his show - he's a magician - he just makes it look like he does

Okay, you'll have to enlighten me as to how he made it "appear to us", you must have some inside info. Don't psychics make it appear that they can actually do the things they do... What they do could be considered a magician's act surely...

ntlbell

dlofnep wrote: »

Any Psychic on boards.ie - I challenge them to prove their claims to me, either in person or on the forum.

This is how it will work.

You will firstly state exactly what it is you can do, in what detail, and specify what information you require. I will then verify whether or not what you have said is valid information or simply, just subtle cold reading.

I doubt any psychics on here have the courage to actually back up their claims, but should you do - I am waiting to prove how much of a fraud you are.

I'd like to have a slice of this.

This is how it will work for me.

I will pay the psychic/medium whatever

1000e for the reading...

That's right 1000e and all you have to do is tell me ONE thing you couldn't possibly know about my past, that's right ONE THING.

If you fail, I get the "reading" for free. lucky me eh :rolleyes:

Otaku Girl

Otaku Girl wrote: »

That's a strawman arguement.We can see how a plumber works in physical reality,but we can't with a psychic. The validity of a plumbers work is empirically verifiable,a psychics is not.You can't compare the two.

Make a Strawman challange get a strawman arguement.


You do know you need to get up off your arses to challange any psychic . Doing over the internet wont prove anything . If you are real "skeptics" you would know this . Otherwise you are pretenders .

Otaku Girl

Deleted User wrote: »

Make a Strawman challange get a strawman arguement.


You do know you need to get up off your arses to challange any psychic . Doing over the internet wont prove anything . If you are real "skeptics" you would know this . Otherwise you are pretenders .

But then we would have to devote the same amount of time to the mud angel from craggy island and other delusions/fantasies.

Otaku Girl

Otaku Girl wrote: »

But then we would have to devote the same amount of time to the mud angel from craggy island and other delusions/fantasies.

Well if you are not willing to put in the time then oviously you know nothing about it so whats the point of arguing :rolleyes:

Oryx

Otaku Girl wrote: »

But then we would have to devote the same amount of time to the mud angel from craggy island and other delusions/fantasies.

I get the point you are trying to make, it has been made before, but with reference to purple dragons in the living room, I think. You can only investigate things which have evidence that can be studied. The example of plumbers was used, which is not the best comparison, imo. More apt, perhaps would be examining the benefit the use of a new type of pipe in plumbing. We are talking about a new type of thought pattern, or one that *some* feel gives intruiging results. Even if you discover that its a deluded thought process, or a psychological effect, personally I think its a worthwhile thing to look at. It cannot be done effectively here though. It would need to be a face to face controlled study. Even if someone took up ntlbell or the op on his challenge, that would be nothing more than anecdotal either way.

threeleggedhors

I'm pretty sure that scientific controlled tests were done on these paranormal matters and obviously were proved false else we would've heard all about it, if I remember right the FBI or CIA did some tests on it. I know it's vague but i'll try and do some research on it

Oryx

I havent even read this fully or looked at the actual paper, but pubmed has loads of links to investigations into psychic phenomena, just based on my first search.

Oryx

Oryx wrote: »

The example of plumbers was used, which is not the best comparison, imo.

I wasnt comparing Plumbers to Psychics more the TV shows Derrin Brown to that show that catches bad plumbers (name) .

These shows consentrate on how you can be had by either .

Oryx

Deleted User wrote: »

I wasnt comparing Plumbers to Psychics more the TV shows Derrin Brown to that show that catches bad plumbers (name) .

These shows consentrate on how you can be had by either .

I was referring to Otaku girls comment. Man, doesnt this lark get complicated.

Otaku Girl

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if you are not willing to put in the time then oviously you know nothing about it so whats the point of arguing :rolleyes:

I did some googling and ended up spending the best part of an evening watching this tonight.

Enemies of Reason.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyQ57X3YhH4

Come on,you have to admit the man makes some good arguments.

iamhunted

I think there definitely should be some decent studies done on mediums. I think ciaran okeeffe done his phd on testing mediums and I dont think he came up with much.

Its an unwinnable argument this one I think. Unless someone is going to analyse, test and interview every single psychic on the planet its going to be impossible to say they are all fake. By the same reasoning we cant prove they arent either.

Whats wrong with the phrase "I dont know'?. Lets try it:

Q Are psychics real?
AI dont know, I dont have enough information.

Its simply in all probability the most genuine answer to date. If anyone is *really* interested in the answer then maybe they should join some kind of paranormal research team and try and find out from experience. Its the only way you (might) find the answer.

iamhunted

then again, if you do end up finding out they arent all fake, you'll just end up in threads like this trying to 'prove' to people you have a point. You'll probably end up suggesting they join a paranomral group and go looking for themselves. Thats if the whole thing is something that genuinely interests them.

Otherwise its armchair politics.

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

I'd like to have a slice of this.

This is how it will work for me.

I will pay the psychic/medium whatever

1000e for the reading...

That's right 1000e and all you have to do is tell me ONE thing you couldn't possibly know about my past, that's right ONE THING.

If you fail, I get the "reading" for free. lucky me eh :rolleyes:

No takers.

They must be recession proof :eek:

ntlbell

ntlbell wrote: »

No takers.

They must be recession proof :eek:

Poor you . You know if you were a true skeptic they would probably do it for free :rolleyes:

meanmachine3

something similar to this thread was tried about 2 years ago. heres the link.
http://blah.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055089360&highlight=readings+net

GhostInTheRuins

Surely someone would take ntlbell up on that very fair and generous proposal, no?

Paul Dee

farna wrote: »

I'm not psychic

I could se that ! LOL!

ntlbell

Deleted User wrote: »

Poor you . You know if you were a true skeptic they would probably do it for free :rolleyes:

What makes you think I'm a skeptic?

Oryx

ntlbell wrote: »

What makes you think I'm a skeptic?

A thousand quid makes me think so.

Who exactly on boards is your offer made to anyway? Im only aware of maybe 4 people on here who say they give readings of any description, and of them only one has actually posted readings online.