DART €50 Fines

superman25 · 20-02-2009 12:56pm #1

Hi,

Need your advice.
I have had the unfortunate experience of getting one of these €50 fines by asking to pay at my destination (Connolly) from Killester.
I am not a regular user of The DART and I had to use it one day. I have however payed at my destination in previous experiences and there was never a problem.
I got off at Connolly, went straight to "The Box" where this employee is and asked to pay for a ticket. He said "Yes" like a smart arse..none the less, ended up getting a fine of €50. i still went and purchased a ticket for my journey and I still have it.
I have appealed to IR with a negative reply and I wonder should I let it run on to the court.

Cheers

highdef · 20-02-2009 1:04pm

Why didn't you just pay at Killester, rather than pay at the far end? Please note that being late for your train is not a valid answer. If you are running late for the train, you still have to buy a ticket beforehand. Worse case scenario is that you'll be very early for the next train

As for the court thing, I wouldn't go to the bother and expense. Read the Irish Rail by-laws. If it is possible to purchase a ticket at your source station, then you MUST purchase it. You will be fined for travelling on a train without a ticket.

.

paulm17781 · 20-02-2009 1:29pm

It has always been illegal to pay at your destination (unless the ticket office was closed) IR just used to let people do this and then started clamping down on it.

Pay the €50, you won't have a leg to stand on in court and it will cost more.

superman25 · 20-02-2009 1:45pm

I know "ignorance is bliss" and all that but I have done this before without any problems and I dont stand at stations reading notice boards about rules. As i said, im not a regular user so I just wanted to know if anyone has ever appealed the same situation and been successful. IR already have come back with a negative reply so it will be the courts next....I hate it that I was being honest about it and i prob would have got away with it if i had went through....
So, Has anyone ever been successful in appealing?

paulm17781 · 20-02-2009 2:13pm

No really, you haven't a hope. Lots of people have been caught with this. It is such an old law, they didn't even put notices up, they just started enforcing it one day. Somewhat unfair.

You have to have a valid ticket to travel on a train. The only exception is if the ticket office is closed. I'm not trying to lecture you here or agree with IR. The fact is, you're better off paying the fine and forgetting about it as you really don't have anything to use. It's not even a new rule.

The annoying thing, as you put it, is that you would probably have gotten away with it if you'd just walked through.

Ham'nd'egger · 20-02-2009 2:14pm

superman25 wrote: »

I know "ignorance is bliss" and all that but I have done this before without any problems and I dont stand at stations reading notice boards about rules. As i said, im not a regular user so I just wanted to know if anyone has ever appealed the same situation and been successful. IR already have come back with a negative reply so it will be the courts next....I hate it that I was being honest about it and i prob would have got away with it if i had went through....
So, Has anyone ever been successful in appealing?

On what basis are you intending appealing the fine on?

Remember, if you choose to take it to court, Irish Rail will have a legal team behind them that are well versed in taking cases like yours to court and you will end up spending a day of work/college in court, possible legal fees (if you are serious about a defence you will need a solicitor on your case) and the risk of a higher fine or a criminal record if the judge is in a bad mood and you are found guilty. Granted you could win as well if the facts side with you and there was some cock up but lets be realistic here; if the facts were with you then Irish Rail would have dealt with this when you appealed to them recently.

So think about your reason for appealing a €50 fine long and hard before you try your luck in the law courts.

KC61 · 20-02-2009 2:55pm

Unfortunately, while you may have indeed done it before, Iarnród Éireann started rigidly enforcing this rule over a year ago, and I'd have to concur with the other posters that you'd be better off paying the fine and being aware of the rule going forward.

superman25 · 20-02-2009 3:05pm

The appeal would have been as follows:
I have the DART ticket for the journey that morning (I bought it even after the fine was given)
I am not a regular user of the Dart and was not aware of the rules due to being able to do this in the past.
I also was not trying to evade the fare as the minute I got off the Dart, i went to purchase a ticket which I have here today..."Your Honour"

i know il end up taking a few hours or day off work and will be a pain in the swiss.
i wouldnt even mind if the cash went to charity but off it goes back to IR/ Government...etc...

Ham'nd'egger · 20-02-2009 3:12pm

superman25 wrote: »

The appeal would have been as follows:
I have the DART ticket for the journey that morning (I bought it even after the fine was given)
I am not a regular user of the Dart and was not aware of the rules due to being able to do this in the past.
I also was not trying to evade the fare as the minute I got off the Dart, i went to purchase a ticket which I have here today..."Your Honour"

i know il end up taking a few hours or day off work and will be a pain in the swiss.
i wouldnt even mind if the cash went to charity but off it goes back to IR/ Government...etc...

And why didn't you purchase a ticket at Killester?

superman25 · 20-02-2009 3:17pm

As i said, Im not a regular user of the Dart and was not aware that i could not purchase at my destinantion....(Now I know)
The Dart was arriving and so I got on without a ticket and I honestly thought I could pay at my destination...which as i said "I have did this before (in the last few months) without any problems"

Kenno90 · 20-02-2009 3:20pm

superman25 wrote: »

Hi,

Need your advice.
I have had the unfortunate experience of getting one of these €50 fines by asking to pay at my destination (Connolly) from Killester.
I am not a regular user of The DART and I had to use it one day. I have however payed at my destination in previous experiences and there was never a problem.
I got off at Connolly, went straight to "The Box" where this employee is and asked to pay for a ticket. He said "Yes" like a smart arse..none the less, ended up getting a fine of €50. i still went and purchased a ticket for my journey and I still have it.
I have appealed to IR with a negative reply and I wonder should I let it run on to the court.

Cheers

wouldn't that cost more then 50 euro if you let it go to court

superman25 · 20-02-2009 3:23pm

Its not the money, its the principle that they will allow people to do it one day and not the next...where is the consistency and law in that...??
I would gladly appeal it but not if someone else has tried with no avail but because of IR's stubborness, it becomes a game of scaremongering people into paying the fines

Ham'nd'egger · 20-02-2009 3:24pm

superman25 wrote: »

As i said, Im not a regular user of the Dart and was not aware that i could not purchase at my destinantion....(Now I know)
The Dart was arriving and so I got on without a ticket and I honestly thought I could pay at my destination...which as i said "I have did this before (in the last few months) without any problems"

Point taken but it won't get you off on the day. Best pay up now and save the day in court, others have tried and failed.

paulm17781 · 20-02-2009 3:29pm

I know you have a ticket now but you need one before you get on the train.

I know you didn't know it at the time but you were wrong. Just pay the fine and move on.

superman25 · 20-02-2009 3:29pm

ye,thats cool. Advice taken and I dont fancy taken the chance of it all and getting a record...
They should have a sign "YOU CANNOT PAY AT FINAL DESTINATION!" that might put the point across!!
thanks anyway

godtabh · 20-02-2009 3:40pm

superman25 wrote: »

As i said, Im not a regular user of the Dart and was not aware that i could not purchase at my destinantion....(Now I know)
The Dart was arriving and so I got on without a ticket and I honestly thought I could pay at my destination...which as i said "I have did this before (in the last few months) without any problems"

I'm not a regular luas user but its common sense to me that I need a ticket before I travel.

Every train station has a sign saying you need a ticket before you start your journey.

IR have heard every story under the sun. I'd love to see how much would have to be spent for you to go to court and lose because lets face thats what would happen

superman25 · 20-02-2009 3:49pm

kearnsr wrote: »

I'm not a regular luas user but its common sense to me that I need a ticket before I travel.

Every train station has a sign saying you need a ticket before you start your journey.

IR have heard every story under the sun. I'd love to see how much would have to be spent for you to go to court and lose because lets face thats what would happen

Point Taken - Its going on past experiences which it was the done thing before...This could go back and forth either way.
Seems No one has ever appealed and won the case or not that we have heard so it will have to be paid.

highdef · 20-02-2009 4:31pm

Yeah, Superman25, just paying the fine really is the best option. Live and learn. Just one question, is a ticket not needed for the turnstiles in Killester to get to the platform. I'm not a frequent user so not sure. Just curious.

Varkov · 20-02-2009 5:03pm

Agreed that after letting EVERYONE do this for so many years, they should have advertised that they were clamping down.

I myself had the same experience, tried to pay at destination withouth sneaking out or anything. Got €100 as I tried giving him a fake address.

Ah well, just pay the fine and remin yourself that at least you dont have to do his ****ty job.

Dante · 20-02-2009 5:07pm

****ing hate this country more and more every day....

Carawaystick · 20-02-2009 5:10pm

kearnsr wrote: »

Every train station has a sign saying you need a ticket before you start your journey.

I'll see your "every train station" and raise you Broombridge

Ham'nd'egger · 20-02-2009 5:34pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'll see your "every train station" and raise you Broombridge

It would have them up but the local scumbags burn them.

MOH · 20-02-2009 5:42pm

highdef wrote: »

Yeah, Superman25, just paying the fine really is the best option. Live and learn. Just one question, is a ticket not needed for the turnstiles in Killester to get to the platform. I'm not a frequent user so not sure. Just curious.

Both turnstiles in Killester have been out of order for at least the last two days (were bein grepaired this morning), so the gate's been open.

If there was no one behind the counter the OP would have a case, but there's been loads of cases lately of IE hitting people for fines who have genuinely attempted to pay at their desitnation.

I'd at least look for the price of the fare back, since they're fining you anyway.

DART €50 Fines

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