*Noname* carbon frame

AstraMonti

Was looking again around in ebay and i fell into a guy selling cheap carbon frames.

This is the one i am talking about.



Now i google it a bit and found that these frames are made by KUOTA's oem manufacturer.

With a cost of 400euro (including shipping and maybe something more for handlebars) that sounds like a good deal to me, but but.. do you know anything for these frames and the most important question, would you trust them?

And last question, (no i am not thinking of buying it now.. there is just the little creature in the back of my head that make me do such stuff :P) would the equipment of my beone storm 1.0 (gears, brakes and the rest of the things) fit on to it?

Once again.. thanks! :-)

Lumen

Looks a bit like a Kuota Kredo.

All the "too good to be true" alarms are going off though. They might be rejects.

kenmc

I would hope that if they are rejects, they would be destroyed for fear of this very thing happening.
But those same alarms are ringing in my head too...

Raam

You can get a pedal force for 595 dollars. I think they are decal free.
http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=100088_101740&products_id=3028

I know a guy with one and he likes it, although he did have to get a replacement one for some reason or another.

Caroline_ie

Look at where the item come from? HongKong, world capital of counterfeit and cheap stuff. Even if it is the product of an 'overnight' factory run in the same factory as Kuota or any other trusted brand, the material used to build the frame will not be as good and the item will not have been subjet to the same quality control and tests. The seller has probably never seen the factory where it's being made either and has no idea what he is selling.

Do Not buy, unless it's to use as a Fire place ornament ...

short circuit

On the positive side he does seem to have very good feedback ... none of his bikes seem to have shattered just yet ... including a few carbon frame mountain bikes ... though he does seem to have diversified into selling bikes only recently ...

AstraMonti

I 've bought a couple of things from this guy and he was fast and generally ok.. but i don't know, investing 400quid on that is a bit to much without knowing anything!

Home:Ballyhoura

Cool! Thats the guy I bought my carbon fiber bottle cages from for a tenner each. I had posted a link to them in my post here (the second link saying 'also here!'). I can vouch for these, very light and effective but that doesn't mean his frames are any good. I did have a look at them before, and yes, they are quite light but it would always be it the back of your mind, especially when going REALLY REALLY FAST (like anything over 30mph/50kmh). I wouldn't be confident in it. The only thing you could do is to actually get it tested. There is a place where they can use advanced technology to determine the strength of things and also any cracks or weaknesses! It probably wouldn't be worth your while cost wise! Cheers

Lumen

Raam wrote: »

You can get a pedal force for 595 dollars. I think they are decal free.
http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=100088_101740&products_id=3028

I know a guy with one and he likes it, although he did have to get a replacement one for some reason or another.

Thanks. Having just waded through this thread on the PF frames, the PF RS2 is on my shortlist.

...calculates...

That said, after import duty and VAT it works out about €1000 for frame and fork, compared to a Cervelo RS '08 at €1350 (from Slane Cycles, with seatpost cost deducted). Not worth it, considering resale value and Euro factors.

AstraMonti

In the other hand (and i am just thinking loudly here) it might be a case of because it says -insert bike brand here- on the frame you pay twice the price in retail...

tunney

Strong, light, cheap.

You can have two of the above.

Chips Lovell

I've read a fair few threads over on Weight Weenies and Bike Forums about these kinds no name frames.

The general consensus is that they often come from factories in China that bike manufacturers have outsourced production to. The same moulds are used to create no name frames that are sold on the cheap.

However, you have no way of knowing that the same carbon layup is being used, that the same quality control is being employed or indeed if these frames aren't rejects from regular production lines. In short, you just don't know.

scottreynolds

AstraMonti wrote: »

In the other hand (and i am just thinking loudly here) it might be a case of because it says -insert bike brand here- on the frame you pay twice the price in retail...

IMHO -- It could be a good deal. Te reality is that all bikes are manufactured in that region. If it is the bike identified above it could purely be that 5000 were made and only 4500 ordered. These could have been production tsting samples.

I can assure you the Trek, Scott, Cervelo whoever it is are not paying any more than 400 euros for there frames. Chances ae some one just got hold of a few to sell.

blorg

AstraMonti wrote: »

In the other hand (and i am just thinking loudly here) it might be a case of because it says -insert bike brand here- on the frame you pay twice the price in retail...

I think there is definitely a lot of this going on. Ribble have a seriously nice looking carbon "sportive" frame (e.g. slightly more relaxed geometry, like a Specialized Roubaix) for only £386 so the price is not a million miles out. Note the Ribble frame does not include the fork, that is another £90. Planet X frames were similar last time I looked. While I would happily buy an Asian carbon frame from someone reputable in Europe though I am not sure I'd be as happy direct from someone in Asia (unless that someone went by the name of Giant or such ).

scottreynolds

Almost looks the same as the ribble

Chips Lovell

I think they are the same frame.

Home:Ballyhoura

scottreynolds wrote: »

Almost looks the same as the ribble

Definitely made out of the same mould! Where did you find this frame, who is it made by and where? Any prices

Chips Lovell

As far as I recall, Pedal Force sell frames to other brands as well as sell their own.

Chips Lovell

Dedacciai and Columbus do the same thing.

Billy Whizz

I have a Kuota Kebel and the frame geometry does look pretty similar. I'd still be very cautious though, just because the moulds are similar doesn't mean the quality of the carbon is. Carbon isn't just carbon, and as somebody mentioned you get what you pay for.

Don't think that Ribble bike is the same mould, look at the thickness of the down tube where the meets the head tube - a lot thinner.

scottreynolds

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

Definitely made out of the same mould! Where did you find this frame, who is it made by and where? Any prices

http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=100088_101740&products_id=8420

el tonto wrote: »

Dedacciai and Columbus do the same thing.

I tried to get pricing from the dist but they weren't forth coming.

Harpz

On the subject of you get what you pay for I'd like to warn everybody about online discounts. There are bikes of chainreaction cycles for 33% off which by this definition must be only 2/3rds as good as a full price bike. To get around this you can ask them if you can pay full retail price and therefore ensure you get a better bike (by definition because you are paying more)

AstraMonti

scottreynolds wrote: »

http://pedalforce.com/online/product_info.php?cPath=100088_101740&products_id=8420

They don't seem to sell just the frame..

blorg

Billy Whizz wrote: »

Don't think that Ribble bike is the same mould, look at the thickness of the down tube where the meets the head tube - a lot thinner.

I think they are the same, can't really see the difference you mention and slight perceived differences could be down to paint/photos being of different frame sizes. Both Ribble and Pedalforce would fall into the "safe/reputable" category though.

scottreynolds

AstraMonti wrote: »

They don't seem to sell just the frame..

Click shop and scroll down

AstraMonti

scottreynolds wrote: »

Click shop and scroll down

Sorry i am blind and thats significally more expensive!

AstraMonti

There are more out there:

link1



This one says that is from Scott OEM manufacturer.

Lumen

AstraMonti wrote: »

This one says that is from Scott OEM manufacturer.

S/44, M/48, L/56

Odd sizing.

blorg

Lumen wrote: »

S/44, M/48, L/56

Odd sizing.

It's probably actual rather than virtual seat tube length on a compact frame.

Billy Whizz

blorg wrote: »

I think they are the same, can't really see the difference you mention and slight perceived differences could be down to paint/photos being of different frame sizes.

Maybe it's just me, but the down tube on the Ribble looks substantially thinner and more cylindrical.

Lumen

blorg wrote: »

It's probably actual rather than virtual seat tube length on a compact frame.

Yeah, but the jump from 48-56 is huge!

niceonetom

certainly looks like the ribble is a pedalforce. the others remain a mystery.

AstraMonti

I am seriously dossing at work, so i 've google a lot these no name frames.

The majority in forums is saying that you get what you pay for, which comes as a defensive answer because instantly you feel bad.. If you have given 1k for a frame that says Bob on it but you can take the same for half the price without Bob on it then you somehow have to justify your money. I am not saying thats the case, its just a possible scenario. In the other hand the other response can be, you don't have enough money to buy a proper frame so you are trying to say that your cheap frame is as good as mine.. and so the story goes..

I found this very interesting article. It mainly says where your bike is build. But even if its being build in the same factory, that doesn't automatically vouch for all the frames that come out of it. Oh well.. i don't know!

I also found this interesting post from a bikesdirect.com guy:

If you get a carbon fiber frame from ADK, Advanced Composites, Topkey, or Martec, you have no quality issue at all - these frame builders make frames for Fuji, Kestrel, Trek, Motobecane, Specialized, Look, Colnago, Bottecchia, Scott, Felt, to name a few.

The cost of a high grade carbon fiber frame in Asia is about 2 times high grade steel; about 3 times high grade aluminum, and about half high end Ti.
So it is certainly possable to buy high grade carbon fiber frames at under $500 or $600 that are the same grade as those that sell for $1500 or $2000 [especially if you are not interested in a trick paint job]

Murph100

Maybe this guy or one or the comment poster at the bottom could give you more info on the frame.

http://tenerife-training.net/Tenerife-News-Cycling-Blog/2009/01/news-tenerife/new-rental-bikes-coming-with-full-carbon-fibre-framesets/


Murph

digitalage

Discussed on another forum

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53819

Greyspoke

If you're looking for a really good price on a frame, it's worth watching the Pedal Force site for their group buy offers which they do when they've a new frame out. I got one of those red/black RS2s last year for $631 including the fork. Also, I only had to pay the delivery guy 82eu in customs/VAT before he'd hand it over so pretty good really. Can't say what it's like to ride though because I haven't built it up yet.

AstraMonti

digitalage wrote: »

Discussed on another forum

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=53819

That's not really a discussion and for some reason that i don't get they locked the topic.. anyway.. at least i see how it looks. Its not bad actually...

Quigs Snr

I had a pedalforce. It was a fine bike, no problems. Strong, light, cheap it had all three. The red version of the RS2 is not quite as pretty in the flesh. Not bad, but the colours look a littler flatter. A great frame all the same especially if you buy in a group buy.

Their aeroblade TT frame is the same as the planet x stealth. I upgraded the pedalforce to a Cervelo. Why ? Because I felt like it. No other reason, still have fond memories of climbing the Alpe D'Huez on the pedalforce. Served me well at the start of last season too.

at1withmyself

Damn you for posting this link!

Was recently looking for a decent priced Carbon frame but didn't want one without some sort of reasonable finish and had decided that my aluminium Giant would be fine for my type of cycling until I seen this yesterday! Almost bought one but going to wait and see can I get it on the cycle to work scheme thing and pick up a new groupset with it.

blorg wrote: »

I think there is definitely a lot of this going on. Ribble have a seriously nice looking carbon "sportive" frame (e.g. slightly more relaxed geometry, like a Specialized Roubaix) for only £386 so the price is not a million miles out. Note the Ribble frame does not include the fork, that is another £90. Planet X frames were similar last time I looked. While I would happily buy an Asian carbon frame from someone reputable in Europe though I am not sure I'd be as happy direct from someone in Asia (unless that someone went by the name of Giant or such ).

bcmf

My issue would be that if the frame collapsed beneath at 5okmh at least you could go back (when you get outta hospital) to Giant,Specialzed etc and have some sorta come back but with the ebayer if something happens.......well good luck to you.I am speaking thru a bad but smaller experience with e-bayer and that was in Germany.What the fcuk chance would you have with an Asian buyer dealing in the shadows.

Murph100

Jaysus, that Ribble is really good value, and you also have a reputable company to limp back to if something does go wrong, thats gotta be worth the extra €50-€100.


Murph

scottreynolds

bcmf wrote: »

Specialzed

A guy on the shop told me if I crashed a Spec and broke the frame the company would charge me 2/3 of the retail price to replace it so I guess they are trying to look after there customers.

AstraMonti

Just updating if anyone else is interested.. the frame is 12K weave carbon (what does that mean?!) and you get with 2years warranty.. :rolleyes:

Home:Ballyhoura

Cheap Kiron Nero Corsa Dedacciai Carbon Frameset on Wiggle for €387 (60% off )

Tau

Home:Ballyhoura wrote: »

Cheap Kiron Nero Corsa Dedacciai Carbon Frameset on Wiggle for €387 (60% off )

It says it weighs 1890g. I sent BeOne an email asking how much the frame off a BeOne Storm 2.0 weighs, and they sent back "between 1770g and 1830g".

Why is the Kiron so heavy? Or is the BeOne frame actually a good frame? Or are all my numbers wrong?

blorg

Kiron: 1890g Incl. Forks, H/Set, S/Clamp and F/Mech Clamp

That is not bad including all that stuff. The BeOne weight sounds like just the frame.

Fork can be 350-650g largely depending on steerer (carbon or alu)
Headset around 100g
Seat clamp, 25g?
F/mech clamp, similar.

Home:Ballyhoura

scottreynolds wrote: »

Almost looks the same as the ribble

HERE IT IS!!!



Another lovely no name carbon frame:

AstraMonti

Beautiful bikes!

bcmf

I like the Black/carbon one.Where did you get that from?

AstraMonti

Paypal is getting itchy..

Here is a big thread with happy people:

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/showthread.php?p=1759842

A lot of people bought these frames and can't see negative comments..

bcmf

Is that the one from the first page/first pic?