[Article] Dictionary helps crack case of notorious Polish serial offender

IIMII

Irish Times, Thu, Feb 19, 2009
HE WAS one of Ireland’s most reckless drivers, a serial offender who crossed the country wantonly piling up dozens of speeding fines and parking tickets while somehow managing to elude the law.
So effective was his modus operandi of giving a different address each time he was caught that by June 2007 there were more than 50 separate entries under his name, Prawo Jazdy, in the Garda Pulse system. And still not a single conviction.
In the end, the vital clue to his identity lay not with Interpol or the fingerprint database but in the pages of a Polish-English dictionary. Prawo jazdy means driving licence.
In a letter dated June 17th, 2007, an officer from the Garda traffic division wrote that it had come to his attention that members inspecting Polish driving licences were noting Prawo Jazdy as the licence holder’s name.
“Prawo Jazdy is actually the Polish for driving licence and not the first and surname on the licence,” he wrote.
“Having noticed this I decided to check on Pulse and see how many members have made this mistake. It is quiet [sic] embarrassing to see that the system has created Prawo Jazdy as a person with over 50 identities.
“He can also be found on the Fixed Charge Processing System as well. This mistake needs to be rectified immediately and a memo sent to the members concerned. I also think that Garda Information Service Centre [in] Castlebar should be notified and some kind of alert put on these two words.”
In Poland, a booklet-type licence such as the one used in the Republic was phased out in 2004 and replaced with a pink, credit card-sized licence with an EU flag, the words Prawo Jazdy in the top right corner with (in admittedly smaller type) the holder’s name and personal details.
A Garda source confirmed that the issue of Polish licences being misread had arisen in 2007, but said the errors were spotted quickly and the problem had now been resolved.
It was not clear whether the confusion was due to licences simply being misread or officers being misled by their holders, he added.
To weed out any other inanimate foreign offenders who might be lurking in the digital depths, the Pulse system has since been updated, with a new section advising officers of the layout of foreign driving licences.
Notices were also sent to Garda stations alerting them to the error.
Expect the recidivist Mrs Library Card from the Czech Republic to have her cover blown.
© 2009 The Irish Times

eth0_

Don't you have to get an Irish licence within 6 months of coming to Ireland now? Or am I imagining things?

NFD100

Maybe time we moved to the standard EU pink Credit Card licence that Poland uses already??? Might help? Much easier to carry around in the wallet?

seanybiker

Ha ha ha thats priceless. Lucky feckers getting off with everything lol.

thesteve

eth0_ wrote: »

Don't you have to get an Irish licence within 6 months of coming to Ireland now? Or am I imagining things?

Nope, not if it's an EU license. I used my Irish one in Germany for years, even got German points on it that didn't transfer when I came home

lostexpectation

It was not clear whether the confusion was due to licences simply being misread or officers being misled by their holders, he added.

is he saying yerman is sitting in he car going ny name is Mr Prawo Jazdy

Stark

NFD100 wrote: »

Maybe time we moved to the standard EU pink Credit Card licence that Poland uses already??? Might help? Much easier to carry around in the wallet?

The EU plan to bring in an EU-wide credit card style driving license in 2012. Ireland will have to wait till then.

positron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Driving_Licence

The licence will be a credit-card-style, single plastic-coated document, very difficult to falsify. The document will be renewable every 10 or 15 years depending on the member state. The several member states will have the option to include a microchip containing information about the card holder on the card. This will prove extremely useful because police can access the driving licence in their own language. This would solve the problem with the three kinds of alphabet (Latin, Greek and Cyrillic) used in the EU. In addition, the fields of the driving licence are uniformly numbered, thus allowing the police to decipher the meaning of the fields without electronic access.

Just wondering, if the format is already agreed and approved, is there any other reason why Ireland should wait till 2012 to start switching to the new format?

thanks!

Alun

positron wrote: »

Just wondering, if the format is already agreed and approved, is there any other reason why Ireland should wait till 2012 to start switching to the new format?

It's not just a new format though. What's proposed is a completely new EU-wide licence that will never need to be exchanged or swapped when moving between EU countries, and I'm guessing a lot of legal / political stuff has to be worked out first before something like that can be introduced.

Run_to_da_hills

It has now reached the Polish media.

http://www.tvp.info/news.html?directory=132&news=884301

bmaxi

The Monty Python team must be kicking themselves for not thinking of this one.

Snickers Man

Reminds me of an older story which I posted here.

Chris_533976

Alun wrote: »

It's not just a new format though. What's proposed is a completely new EU-wide licence that will never need to be exchanged or swapped when moving between EU countries, and I'm guessing a lot of legal / political stuff has to be worked out first before something like that can be introduced.

Heel dragging is probably more accurate.

Whats the bet that we dont actually see it in 2012 because of a barrage of useless excuses?

kravmaga

IIMII wrote: »

Irish Times, Thu, Feb 19, 2009
HE WAS one of Ireland’s most reckless drivers, a serial offender who crossed the country wantonly piling up dozens of speeding fines and parking tickets while somehow managing to elude the law.
So effective was his modus operandi of giving a different address each time he was caught that by June 2007 there were more than 50 separate entries under his name, Prawo Jazdy, in the Garda Pulse system. And still not a single conviction.
In the end, the vital clue to his identity lay not with Interpol or the fingerprint database but in the pages of a Polish-English dictionary. Prawo jazdy means driving licence.
In a letter dated June 17th, 2007, an officer from the Garda traffic division wrote that it had come to his attention that members inspecting Polish driving licences were noting Prawo Jazdy as the licence holder’s name.
“Prawo Jazdy is actually the Polish for driving licence and not the first and surname on the licence,” he wrote.
“Having noticed this I decided to check on Pulse and see how many members have made this mistake. It is quiet [sic] embarrassing to see that the system has created Prawo Jazdy as a person with over 50 identities.
“He can also be found on the Fixed Charge Processing System as well. This mistake needs to be rectified immediately and a memo sent to the members concerned. I also think that Garda Information Service Centre [in] Castlebar should be notified and some kind of alert put on these two words.”
In Poland, a booklet-type licence such as the one used in the Republic was phased out in 2004 and replaced with a pink, credit card-sized licence with an EU flag, the words Prawo Jazdy in the top right corner with (in admittedly smaller type) the holder’s name and personal details.
A Garda source confirmed that the issue of Polish licences being misread had arisen in 2007, but said the errors were spotted quickly and the problem had now been resolved.
It was not clear whether the confusion was due to licences simply being misread or officers being misled by their holders, he added.
To weed out any other inanimate foreign offenders who might be lurking in the digital depths, the Pulse system has since been updated, with a new section advising officers of the layout of foreign driving licences.
Notices were also sent to Garda stations alerting them to the error.
Expect the recidivist Mrs Library Card from the Czech Republic to have her cover blown.
© 2009 The Irish Times

Sounds like the Garda were not trained on how to read a basic European driving licence hehe lol. I have seen the Polish licence and its obvious to me which is the surname and forename.

This is embarrassing as it has made headlines in Poland on all TV networks.

Our guardians of the peace are now the butt of jokes in Poland now, lol.

My girlfriend is Polish and she could not believe it, anyway gave me a laugh

IIMII

But in fairness, our licences are bi-lingual like our passports and ok Polish is more widely spoken than Gaelic but it is hardly a Lingua Franca and definitely not an international language (ok it has ties with Slovakian etc but it doesn't have ties with any west-European languages). You would think that either French or English tags would be added to the Polish version, even just to avoid hassle for Polish licence holders when they travel.

And as far as I remember the law here is that you have to change your licence within 6 months if you are habitually resident here

Anyway it is funny, but the reality is that Irish licences are more travel language friendly than the Polish one

mdebets

IIMII wrote: »

And as far as I remember the law here is that you have to change your licence within 6 months if you are habitually resident here

Not true. as long as you have a valid license from an EU country, you don't have to change it.

Alun

IIMII wrote: »

You would think that either French or English tags would be added to the Polish version, even just to avoid hassle for Polish licence holders when they travel.

Unnecessary, both for Polish licences or any other EU model licence for that matter. Look at your licence and you'll see that each entry is numbered, and this numbering is identical for all EU licences, so all any EU police officer has to know is that 1 means family name, 2 means first name(s), 5 is licence number, 8 is address etc. They might not all be in the same order, but the meaning is the same. Looking at the pictures of Polish credit card sized licences I've seen, these are no different, so no excuses for the Gardai responsible for this IMO.

IIMII

mdebets wrote: »

Not true. as long as you have a valid license from an EU country, you don't have to change it.

Well that's not what the Gardaí tell my wife whenever they inspect her foreign licence

Alun wrote: »

Unnecessary, both for Polish licences or any other EU model licence for that matter. Look at your licence and you'll see that each entry is numbered, and this numbering is identical for all EU licences, so all any EU police officer has to know is that 1 means family name, 2 means first name(s), 5 is licence number, 8 is address etc. They might not all be in the same order, but the meaning is the same. Looking at the pictures of Polish credit card sized licences I've seen, these are no different, so no excuses for the Gardai responsible for this IMO.

Yep. But practicality-wise for car hire for instance it might be useful. I'm sure it helps when we travel abroad that our licences are not only in Gaelic.

L1011

IIMII wrote: »

Well that's not what the Gardaí tell my wife whenever they inspect her foreign licence.

...and this thread serves as a good reminder that a large proportion of our Gardaí are not very bright...

Anyway, I think the Polish licence has 'driving licence' in French on it too?

pcardin

IIMII wrote: »

But in fairness, our licences are bi-lingual like our passports and ok Polish is more widely spoken than Gaelic but it is hardly a Lingua Franca and definitely not an international language (ok it has ties with Slovakian etc but it doesn't have ties with any west-European languages). You would think that either French or English tags would be added to the Polish version, even just to avoid hassle for Polish licence holders when they travel.

And as far as I remember the law here is that you have to change your licence within 6 months if you are habitually resident here

Anyway it is funny, but the reality is that Irish licences are more travel language friendly than the Polish one

OMG! How did you get to these minds? Hit your head somewhere?
Every EU licence has translation of words "driving licence" in 23 languages on it. So there is no excuse for garda. Well, if Ireland recruit gardas who can't read, that's different story. Check your irish licence and even there you will find words Prawo Jazdy
I hold a full irish licence and had so many problems in Germany, Sweden and Latvia where I was hold on road for a good time while police is inspecting if my irish licence isn't false (fake). I couldn't blame them as it really looks like home-made using pc,colour printer and laminator
Latvia have credit card style driving licence since 1992 and it was so good that in 2004 when Latvia stept into EU only EU flag was added. Credit card type licence is very difficult to falsificate.

L1011

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7899171.stm

Notice the "Permis de Conduire" there...

Alun

pcardin wrote: »

I hold a full irish licence and had so many problems in Germany, Sweden and Latvia where I was hold on road for a good time while police is inspecting if my irish licence isn't false (fake). I couldn't blame them as it really looks like home-made using pc,colour printer and laminator

I hold a (still valid) pink paper licence from the Netherlands which looks almost exactly the same as the current Irish one, so all that goes to show is that there some equally stupid cops in Germany, Sweden and Latvia. Or maybe it's just you that looks suspicious

pcardin

Alun wrote: »

I hold a (still valid) pink paper licence from the Netherlands which looks almost exactly the same as the current Irish one, so all that goes to show is that there some equally stupid cops in Germany, Sweden and Latvia. Or maybe it's just you that looks suspicious

Maybe, but I'm an angel!

L1011

The trifold pink paper licence WAS the EU standard was it not? Its not like we're going alone using some obscure format nobody else will have seen; I've seen German trifolds also.

Capt'n Midnight

How do I go about getting my name changed by deed poll to Prawo Jazdy ?

Stark

blueeyedboy wrote: »

Sounds like the Garda were not trained on how to read a basic European driving licence hehe lol. I have seen the Polish licence and its obvious to me which is the surname and forename.

This is embarrassing as it has made headlines in Poland on all TV networks.

Our guardians of the peace are now the butt of jokes in Poland now, lol.

My girlfriend is Polish and she could not believe it, anyway gave me a laugh

http://www.boingboing.net/2009/02/19/northern-ireland-cop.html

Alun

MYOB wrote: »

The trifold pink paper licence WAS the EU standard was it not? Its not like we're going alone using some obscure format nobody else will have seen; I've seen German trifolds also.

Exactly my point. The paper the Irish ones are made from seems a little less robust than my Dutch one, and there are other minor cosmetic differences, but essentially they're identical.

Geogregor

Alun wrote: »

Exactly my point. The paper the Irish ones are made from seems a little less robust than my Dutch one, and there are other minor cosmetic differences, but essentially they're identical.

How many countries still use old format of driving licences?
In Poland they switched them to new ones few years ago. It was done in few years so each year some part of documents had to be exchanged.

How about regulations? Is it true that you don't have to exchange EU licence?
Here in UK you have to exchange it 3 years after residing in the country.
But if I don't own a car just rent it from time to time (like myself) there is no point of doing that. If police stops you, tell them you are just tourist
It's the same if you drive foreign car. Only if you buy car here you should really change it because it is easy to check when you registered car first.

L1011

The UK's regulations are very very dodgy; its an EEA-wide rule that licences are honoured until their expiration date.

Yakuza

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

How do I go about getting my name changed by deed poll to Prawo Jazdy ?

...and find yourself lamped with 50 speeding offenses?
At 4 points a pop (for having missed the court dates by now), that's 200 points, working off 12 points every 3 years....about 50 years of a driving ban

I can see the headline now..."Gardai finally catch mystery Polish driver"

Capt'n Midnight

Yakuza wrote: »

...and find yourself lamped with 50 speeding offenses?
At 4 points a pop (for having missed the court dates by now), that's 200 points, working off 12 points every 3 years....about 50 years of a driving ban

I can see the headline now..."Gardai finally catch mystery Polish driver"

Think of the compensation I'll get when I finally clear my name

GerardKeating

mdebets wrote: »

Not true. as long as you have a valid license from an EU country, you don't have to change it.

Depends on your insurance company, some will not insure you on foreign licences, even a UK licence.

IIMII

pcardin wrote: »

OMG! How did you get to these minds? Hit your head somewhere?

In fairness, Prawo Jazdy to a non-Polish speaker doesn't sound unlike a Polish name! "Hey Lukasz, Miroslaw, Jaczek, Prawo etc, how is it going?!". It wouldn't jump at me that it wasn't a real Polish name if somebody said it to me in passing. You average Irish person is no more familiar with every Polish name, than you would be with every Irish name

I still think that the licence could be better laid out and I'm not an apologist for lazy Gardaí. I do accept the point that the Gardaí were probably checking enough Polish licence holders to be at least be familiar with the licence over the past 4 years. But hey I remember having a conversation with a Polish guy that had just arrived in Ireland and he thought he was in England, so little international misunderstandings are not that uncommon, or big ones either

kasper

will we still get our new driving licenses if we vote no to lisbon again

L1011

kasper wrote: »

will we still get our new driving licenses if we vote no to lisbon again

Yes. Its not like the EU is going to cease to exist if we vote No, considering we did, and it hasn't.