Very poor dealer treatment. Advice?

Nonoperational · 18-02-2009 11:30pm #1

Hi guys, I’ve finally lost my patience with DEALER NAME REMOVED. I’d STRONGLY recommend avoiding them at all costs. Here is my story and I can back up every single bit of it 100% with documentation.

Purchased a 2003 Alfa 156 in June last. Paid top dollar for it and purchased a 12 month warranty for piece of mind. No dodgy second hand car dealer here, long established **** dealer. Ha that’s a joke. Here is what happened since.
Month or so after I got it, drove up from Cork with a few issues. Thermostat stuck open, noise from timing belt area and knocking from front passenger side front. Got 100% fobbed off and drove home. Still not happy took it to a dealer in my area and found out the thermostat was stuck open and the timing belt tensioner was noisy. In fairness the warranty covered the thermostat and tensioner.
Car was sold FULLY SERVICED at 58000 miles. However rang them and was told they didn’t bother doing the plugs which in an Alfa need doing every 60,000 miles. Had to replace them myself cost me 300-400 quid. Also the brake pads they sold the car with had only a few thousand miles left on them (fully serviced…ya right) so I had to lie to the loss of replacing them (60 quid).

Front knocking got progressively worse and so got it looked at last October I took it to be looked at. It also just failed the NCT on rear transverse arm. Was told I needed new front ARB and bushes, top wishbones, rear stub axel bushes and a rear transverse arm. Another 1100 please. Eventually I paid them 700 to do the said work but they said the wishbones were ok. Why I paid them I don’t know but I did. Since then the wishbones are squeaking like hell and I need new ones. 195 a side they want.

Now the best bit. Third gear synchro is now worn meaning anything but the slowest change from 2 – 3 at low revs will cause a lovely crunch. Cost to me 1000 at least to rebuild the box. Went to claim on the warranty, - sorry wear and tear bud. Ha, well that’s the last straw. 7 months, around 1400 spent already and now another 1000 to replace the gearbox. With 4 months “warranty” remaining. Warranty was miss sold to a frightening extent. It basically covers nothing.
I’m a student just out of college. Saved for ages to buy this, turned down cheaper ones at second hand dealers to buy at a reputable big dealer but I could honestly not be treated worse. Smooth talking fobbing off. Lads, please think long and hard about using this crowd. Be it for purchases or servicing. I just feel so had. I’ve never seen such lousy behaviour. And be sure to ignore the “warranty” sticker they have on their used cars. Its no warranty. Its “breakdown insurance”. Of course if its breakdown caused by wear then good luck. No way I can afford 1000 for a gearbox so I’m going around double clutching 33% of the time!

As I said I have documentation to back up everything I have said here.

What do we think? Is there anything I can do? I cant mention the dealer so dont ask, Boards policy.

peasant · 18-02-2009 11:34pm

just an administrative note here, folks:

Please offer helpful advice only. Any Alfa bashing or baying for blood in the form of "name&shame" calls will result in a ban.

Ye have been warned

eringobragh · 18-02-2009 11:35pm

Was it a written warranty??? If so what did it cover?

EPM · 18-02-2009 11:37pm

just go back to the dealer, keep the head. Tell them you expect the problems rectified. If they dont play ball tell them you will seek legal advice

Nonoperational · 18-02-2009 11:44pm

Its a written warranty provided by a third party. Anything that wears is not covered. To be honest thats why I paid for the suspension work. Maybe they could argue rubber will wear. Shouldnt need 1100 quid of work that soon after buying it but I bit the bullet. But a synchro ring. Wear and tear, thats just too much for me to stomach. When I told them they're response was they'd do the work for " the keenest possible price". Same thing they said when they did the suspension work. As it happens I could have got it done cheaper in a dealer in cork without the 400 mile drive and the night in the hotel. :mad:

galwaytt · 19-02-2009 12:58am

...show me something on a car that doesn't wear....

I'd be off to the solr, btw. A warranty is inclusive unless items are specifically stated as exclusive, imho

endasmail · 19-02-2009 1:22am

no harm to talk to solicitor,see if you have a case against the car dealer ,couldnt do any harm

su_dios · 19-02-2009 1:59am

TBH I wouldn't have expected a dealers warranty to cover the car in the same way a manufacturers warranty may. There seems like there was a lot of wear and tear in the car and looks like they sold as is. A 'service' on the car then in that case would have cost them a lot of money.

Its a tough situation alright but looks like you need to check exactly what the warranty was to cover. A lot going on a 2003 model though for that many problems. Sounds like its had a rough life.

Esel · 19-02-2009 2:39am

How the hell is a gearbox a 'wear and tear' item?

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 7:25am

Ya thats why Im so annoyed, Wear and tear sounds on a gearbox I just cant get my head around.

degsie · 19-02-2009 8:28am

esel wrote: »

How the hell is a gearbox a 'wear and tear' item?

All mechanical items are subject to wear and tear....

Notch000 · 19-02-2009 8:40am

fitting a replacement gear box works out a lot cheaoer than a rebuild

Darsad · 19-02-2009 8:41am

Your been fobbed off !An internal failure of a syncro or any other internal transmission part for that matter can not be classed as wear and tear as it is not listed as a service item. Does your policy have a list of items that would be deemed wear and tear.If it does not mention transmission then you need to write directly to the warranty providor outling your experience as there is an onus on the retailer of the policy to ensure the car the policy is sold to cover is fit to be covered.

keefg · 19-02-2009 9:08am

In my experience unless a warranty is on a brand new car from the manufacturer themselves then it isn't worth the paper it's written on (or the money you paid for it).

Also, I wouldn't bother threatening them with legal action because they probably won't give a monkeys.

Just send them a letter (by reg'd post) detailing all of the issues you have with the car and that you expect them to cover the repairs under the warranty they sold you. Give them a set date (two weeks or something) to repair the car to your satisfaction. If this isn't done just go straight ahead to the small claims court.

As EPM suggested, keep cool and give them the opportunity to sort this out, if they don't the way you handle the matter will look good if/when any legal shennanigans start.

I hope you get it sorted.

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 12:45pm

Thanks for the advice. Ranf them again today, will post an update after work.

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 8:59pm

Rang them again and there was no progress. Doing the work for a keen price is the best they'll do. Told him Im not paying one more cent on it so that was that. SIMI complaint and small claims court I think is the way to go. What ye think?

Forgot to mention they also sold the car with a noisy variator which I also paid for a matter of weeks after I got the car.

eringobragh · 19-02-2009 9:02pm

gpf101 wrote: »

Rang them again and there was no progress. Doing the work for a keen price is the best they'll do. Told him Im not paying one more cent on it so that was that. SIMI complaint and small claims court I think is the way to go. What ye think?

Forgot to mention they also sold the car with a noisy variator which I also paid for a matter of weeks after I got the car.

This is why this country need "lemon laws" for cars

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 9:11pm

Your telling me. In the 8 months I have it it needed / needs:

New:
thermostat
Timing belt tensioner
Variator
Spark plugs x8
Rear brake pads
Front ARB / bushes
Front Wishbones
And now gearbox rebuild.

kyote00 · 19-02-2009 9:22pm

The thermostat, variator and front wishbones are all known (well known) probs on the 156....

If its an Alfa dealer you got the car front, then I think its bad form on their part to sell it on without fixing these well known issues....

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 9:45pm

Ya I was taken for a ride. I foolishly assumed buying from a main dealer and paying a bit over the odds would get me a car where the known issues were addressed.

L1011 · 19-02-2009 10:07pm

You may also want to get on to Fiat Auto Ireland (as they distribute Alfa here) as the new boss there was tasked by HQ to 'sort out' the dealer network reputation wise.

Nonoperational · 19-02-2009 10:41pm

The contact us link is not working on the fiat forum. Anyone now an email of someone with a bit of clout?

L1011 · 19-02-2009 11:18pm

adrian.walsh@fiat.ie is a stab in the dark at the MD's email...

mickdw · 20-02-2009 12:06am

gpf101 wrote: »

Your telling me. In the 8 months I have it it needed / needs:

New:
thermostat
Timing belt tensioner
Variator
Spark plugs x8
Rear brake pads
Front ARB / bushes
Front Wishbones
And now gearbox rebuild.

Did you ask when you were buying it if the timing belt had been done? If it was changed by them and they didnt change the tensioner, then they would be responsible for the tensioner job regardless of the warranty you paid for.
Variator is common and I wouldnt be crying about it to be honest.
Thermostat was just a failure that could happen anytime.
Spark plugs...... again you need to ask the question when buying
Brakes...... Garages will leave them alone if there is a few thousand km left on them.
Anti roll bar bushes are wear and tear as are wishbones.

Gearbox is a serious one alright and I would be chasing the warranty on that one.

Overall though it seems you bought a well driven example of the car and alot of these things are to be expected

Boskowski · 20-02-2009 12:21am

Fair enough about all the other stuff but how in the name of god could new plugs cost you 300-400 quid???

I assume this is a 4 cylinder, so we're talking 40 quid max plus changing them say another 20 if you cant do it yourself?!?

fryup · 20-02-2009 12:26am

but its italian.....its bound to give trouble

even ferraris fall apart after a year:cool:

?Cee?view · 20-02-2009 10:50am

Can i ask how much you paid for it?...and what mileage it was when you got it? What size engine has it?

I'm thinking of buying an '03 156 myself which is why I ask.

Good luck with sorting your issues. You should note though that the Small Claims Court only deals with cases up to €2,000. You could choose to take your case there if your car is worth more - it's just that €2,000 is the max that you'll get. You should also check the paperwork that you signed when you bought the car. If it's a standard SIMI contract you might have agreed that any dispute would go to Arbitration, and if you've signed that, then you'll have to go that route.

Again, best of luck.

redmachine · 09-03-2012 7:46am

Hi I purchased a 00 Ford Escort from a garage in Enniscorthy which I thought was reputable for €1250 on 14.11.11. NCT to run out 6.3.12. told me to get in touch nearer the time and he would help sort it. Well did not come back to me. I had someone look over car only done 57,000 miles was 55,000 when I purchased and last NCT done at 52,000 miles. To my amazement the underneath of the vehicle is not more than rust and I know I am not a mechanic but I dont believe this could have happened since the last NCT? So how did it pass this is at Enniscorthy. Anyone got any suggestions?

king_of_inismac · 09-03-2012 8:57am

I'm not going to comment on the dealer, but here's my advice on owning an Alfa.

I owned a 156 for many years and my advice to anyone considering buying one is always the same:

If everytime a warning light comes on, or something starts to rattle, you need to take it to a mechanic, buy another car.

For example, the parts supplier in Galway quoted my ~350 euro for one top wishbone on my 156. This did not include the cost of labour.

So I went to this website (http://www.ebspares.co.uk/) and bought two upper wishbones, two lower wishbones and the ARB bushings for €320 delivered and fitted them myself.

Alfa are a great car but they do require careful minding and regular servicing. Also, genuine parts are expensive. If you can source the parts yourself and either do the work yourself or find a good independent, then alfas can be a pleasure to own.

Henry Ford III · 09-03-2012 9:05am

Gearbox should be covered under warranty.

Suspension and brakes arewearing parts so won't be.

Timing belt, variator etc. are service parts, so again won't be covered.

OP I'd advise communicating with the dealer in writing ONLY. Ringing or calling in will only result in another fob off, and more frustration.

Keep a record of your issues, give a reasonable timeframe for the gearbox to be sorted, and tell them you'll have no option but a legal one if they are not.

p.s. What exactly does the warranty say?

Bearcat · 09-03-2012 9:22am

I would seek the advice of a solicitor who will probably start to where his/her sale of goods act hat. OP you have been sold a pup. I had a similar experience with an s class I bought from a well known south side dealer who wouldn't acknowledge the torque converter was knackered and it needed a gearbox rebuild....a solicitors letter sorted all my woes.