"Bus lane not in use" huh?

milltown

We've all come across these signs I'm sure but what do they mean exactly? What are we supposed to do with this information?

Is the bus lane not being used as a bus lane and therefore available for use by all traffic?

or

Is it still a bus lane but not to be used at all?

I'm sure the majority of responses will be in favour of the first option but I'd be interested in any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that might back it up.

Anan1

It's not yet a bus lane, so disregard road markings to the contrary.

Cionád

If its not in use, its not solely for the use of buses/taxis, so anyone can use it.

On a side note the Dublin Bus website is not usable http://www.dublinbus.ie/

Cookie_Monster

Cionád wrote: »

If its not in use, its not solely for the use of buses/taxis, so anyone can use it.

+1 in general.

I'm sure there are some road where you could consider it to be a hard shoulder if the bus lane is not in use but the majority it just becomes the left hand lane and as such should be the default driving lane

Del2005

Your supposed to drive on the left in this country, if it's a multi lane road you drive in the left most lane, unless overtaking or going right ahead on a DC. Treat roads with bus lanes out of hours/not in use as a DC. But since most Irish people can't drive you'll get lots of dirty looks as you drive past them in the correct lane.

Cookie_Monster

Del2005 wrote: »

But since most Irish people can't drive you'll get lots of dirty looks as you drive past them in the correct lane.

Yeah but screw them, it's great:D

Saruman

That it is... I always use a bus lane out of hours unless its one of those short ones that ends up the way where i would have to yeild.

Cookie_Monster

Saruman wrote:

I always use a bus lane out of hours

*Cough* Noone should use buslanes ever *Cough*














That should keep them out, don't ruin it for us:D

stealthyspeeder

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

*Cough* Noone should use buslanes ever *Cough*

Remember everyone, this applies on the N32, do not under any circumstances obey the small bus lane not in use sign! (this lane has been set aside for stealthyspeeders!:D)

Spud83

Del2005 wrote: »

Your supposed to drive on the left in this country, if it's a multi lane road you drive in the left most lane, unless overtaking or going right ahead on a DC. Treat roads with bus lanes out of hours/not in use as a DC. But since most Irish people can't drive you'll get lots of dirty looks as you drive past them in the correct lane.

You mean undertake them?

Saruman

Its not undertaking if traffic in the right lane is going slower than traffic in the left lane.

Anan1

Saruman wrote: »

Its not undertaking if traffic in the right lane is going slower than traffic in the left lane.

That's only true in slow-moving traffic.

stealthyspeeder

Anan1 wrote: »

That's only true in slow-moving traffic.

Traffic moving slower than the posted limit

Cuddlesworth

Del2005 wrote: »

But since most Irish people can't drive you'll get lots of dirty looks as you drive past them in the correct lane.

Maybe not dirty looks, but I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

Clearly this is meant for when the bus lane is in use and other vehicles are entitled to be there when going straight on in the out of hours bus lane

woodseb

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Maybe not dirty looks, but I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

why don't you just drive on the left and keep up with the traffic like you were taught in your driving test.

Cionád

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

I find that people who don't drive in the bus lanes out of hours

*Cannot read road signage

*Do not adhere to "keep left unless overtaking"

*are generally bitter individuals

stealthyspeeder

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Maybe not dirty looks, but I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

When Im driving in Dublin around 7pm, im counting the seconds till I can get legally into the bus lanes (the one's your alllowed in after 7), I would keep to the speed limit......... mostly, but always if there is traffic in front of me or in the other lane, which often means im going past these cars at a relatively high speed.

I think the second point is technically true, but I could only imagine the most zealous of our guards on a bad day pulling anybody up over it, as a little sprinkling of common sense would indicate that the left hand turn only except buses at junctions, goes hand in hand with the bus lane and could not exist for a practical purpose without it, thus when its out of hrs.......... come on!

Im not an aggessive driver ( dont drive up fast behind people, i leave plenty of space, i dont force my way into lanes etc etc), I dont think Im a dangerous driver either, and I certainly dont see how driving in an out of hours bus lane (which I believe is the correct thing to to as the road is for all practical purposes now a 2 lane road) makes me dangerous?

Drummerboy08

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Maybe not dirty looks, but I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

You dont drive a Nissan Micra by any chance do ya..? :rolleyes:

R.O.R

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Clearly this is meant for when the bus lane is in use and other vehicles are entitled to be there when going straight on in the out of hours bus lane

I've always wondered about this - wonder if anyone can clarify if the "Left Turn Only Except Buses" is still valid when the bus lane is out of hours?

Cookie_Monster

R.O.R wrote: »

I've always wondered about this - wonder if anyone can clarify if the "Left Turn Only Except Buses" is still valid when the bus lane is out of hours?

Look at it the other way. It would mean that you would have to pull out of your lane at every left turn and then re-enter it after the junction. Not very practical and dangerous IMO.

Anan1

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Traffic moving slower than the posted limit

We wish!;)

McSpud

Cionád wrote: »

On a side note the Dublin Bus website is not usable http://www.dublinbus.ie/

Are they on strike already?

The 7-10am & 4-7pm bus lanes are great for any one who travels outside those times. I would guess at least 3/4 of Dublin drivers never read the signs with bus lane times.

The inbound lane on the Navan Road is a handy one on Sunday as road can be fairly busy.

Del2005

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Maybe not dirty looks, but I find that people who drive in out of hours bus lanes

*undertake at high speeds.

*fail to acknowledge the road markings which clearly indicate left hand turn only except buses at junctions(I assume that as there is nothing to contradict the road markings, they still hold true).

*are generally aggressive and dangerous to other road users

Speeding past traffic sitting in the outside lane, I don't do that. But I do pass then below the speed limit, and I'm always waiting for one to cut across me, as they are in a slow moving line of traffic and I'm in an open lane so why should I stop 1km from a junction or travel at 5km/h because people don't use their eyes?

TBH the left turn only except for buses was the only thing that worried me about driving in out of hours bus lanes. But as others have said since the bus lane is now the driving lane and the out side lane is the overtaking lane. It'd be a very dangerous manouver to have to drive in the left lane then 10m before the lights pull into the overtaking lane to pull straight back in after the lights even without traffic.


I find that people who travel in bus lanes in hours are agressive and dangerous to other road users, but peope who drive in bus lanes out of hours are more courtious as they are actually paying attention to the road and drive in the correct lane.

But you'll always meet a muppet on the road at any time and it any lane so don't worry about them.

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Clearly this is meant for when the bus lane is in use and other vehicles are entitled to be there when going straight on in the out of hours bus lane

I don't think I have ever seen anything to signify this is the case.

Cionád wrote: »

I find that people who don't drive in the bus lanes out of hours

*Cannot read road signage

*Do not adhere to "keep left unless overtaking"

*are generally bitter individuals

Considering the road I drive on has a few sections of 24 hour bus lanes, varying times for other stretches and the signs are difficult to read at speed I would not hold it against people to not drive in the lane.

Its also a dual carriageway and out of hours I can't see any reason to necessitate driving in the bus lane besides a overriding need to speed and undertake other road users.

Lastly, the bus lane coming up to junctions is clearly a space for deceleration when approaching the turn in order to not effect other road uses(a filter lane). By turning it into a full lane you remove that area and create a larger risk of a rear end.

woodseb wrote: »

why don't you just drive on the left and keep up with the traffic like you were taught in your driving test.

My driving test taught me nothing about proper road driving. I can definitely toot quietly around estates though.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

When Im driving in Dublin around 7pm, im counting the seconds till I can get legally into the bus lanes (the one's your alllowed in after 7), I would keep to the speed limit......... mostly, but always if there is traffic in front of me or in the other lane, which often means im going past these cars at a relatively high speed.

You don't think that's dangerous? From personal experience, very few people really look in their mirrors when moving from slow moving traffic into bus lanes(in or out of hours) for left hands turns coming up.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I think the second point is technically true, but I could only imagine the most zealous of our guards on a bad day pulling anybody up over it, as a little sprinkling of common sense would indicate that the left hand turn only except buses at junctions, goes hand in hand with the bus lane and could not exist for a practical purpose without it, thus when its out of hrs.......... come on!

They have done people for less. You can happily quote the rules of the road to me about how its legal to drive in the bus lane but you can't clarify if its legal to go straight through a junction when road markings clearly indicate a left turn only except buses.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Im not an aggessive driver ( dont drive up fast behind people, i leave plenty of space, i dont force my way into lanes etc etc), I dont think Im a dangerous driver either, and I certainly dont see how driving in an out of hours bus lane (which I believe is the correct thing to to as the road is for all practical purposes now a 2 lane road) makes me dangerous?

Do you end up constantly undertaking other road users? Whatever way you try to swing it, its dangerous.

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

You dont drive a Nissan Micra by any chance do ya..? :rolleyes:

1.2 Punto and a 650cc motorbike. My choice of car has little to do with my style of driving and more to do with my current finances.

R.O.R wrote: »

I've always wondered about this - wonder if anyone can clarify if the "Left Turn Only Except Buses" is still valid when the bus lane is out of hours?

It is a interesting problem. The junctions are clearly marking the bus lane as a feeder lane both in and out of the road in the proximity. And nothing I have seen would contradict that.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Look at it the other way. It would mean that you would have to pull out of your lane at every left turn and then re-enter it after the junction. Not very practical and dangerous IMO.

Yes it isn't very practical and extremely dangerous. Its also dangerous for people who don't drive in the bus lane who want to exit and enter the road.

There is a simple solution. Don't drive in the bus lane.

Del2005

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There is a simple solution. Don't drive in the bus lane.

I think this sums up the problem. Most motorist can't be bothered to read the legal information signs at the side of the road so the ones that do are in the wrong.

Anan1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Its also a dual carriageway and out of hours I can't see any reason to necessitate driving in the bus lane besides a overriding need to speed and undertake other road users.

How about the fact that you're legally obliged to drive in the left-hand lane?

Cuddlesworth

Del2005 wrote: »

Speeding past traffic sitting in the outside lane, I don't do that. But I do pass then below the speed limit, and I'm always waiting for one to cut across me, as they are in a slow moving line of traffic and I'm in an open lane so why should I stop 1km from a junction or travel at 5km/h because people don't use their eyes?

I'm not saying I haven't seen people using the bus lane as a correct lane and approaching slower moving traffic with care. But most people use it as an excuse to skip traffic at junctions, mainly at speed while the cars are relatively stationary and I view that as aggressive.

Cuddlesworth

Del2005 wrote: »

I think this sums up the problem. Most motorist can't be bothered to read the legal information signs at the side of the road so the ones that do are in the wrong.

Not in the wrong but a danger to themselves and the ones that are.

Anan1 wrote: »

How about the fact that you're legally obliged to drive in the left-hand lane?

As I have said before, road markings clearly indicate that approaching junctions it is no longer a normal lane but rather a feeder lane and a straight through for buses. If that is the case and traffic in the middle lane is at the limit then why the need to move into the bus lane?

And as said above, cops tend to use cop on. You ever seen somebody done for not driving in a out of hours bus lane?

Drummerboy08

If you are legally driving in a bus lane, crack on! I dont care whether you dont like it or not, as long as i am not breaking the law.

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

As I have said before, road markings clearly indicate that approaching junctions it is no longer a normal lane but rather a feeder lane and a straight through for buses.

And implied for taxi's as they are allowed used the buslane but are not specifically mentioned on signage either. If you were to take it at face value then only busses could use the section during bus lane hours. As it is this in common practice and in spirit is not meant to be literal and hence taxi's etc can also use it to go straight on while in use. Same situation when out of use. All road users can use it to go straight on.

Cuddlesworth

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

If you are legally driving in a bus lane, crack on! I dont care whether you dont like it or not, as long as i am not breaking the law.

Hypothetical situation.

You are driving in the bus lane, a red light is ahead and a queue of 10 cars is in the middle lane. The light goes green and you maintain speed. The other cars start to accelerate.

You pass them at 60-80kph undertaking at least 50kph faster then them.

I would say that's dangerous driving. And very few out of hours bus lane drivers I have seen would slow down enough in order to be able to meet the consequences of a car pulling in front.

Its not as bad on the other side as we are all trained to expect faster traffic on the right.

Yes its legal to drive in certain bus lanes but with driving style and other road users taken into account it doesn't necessarily mean its right.

Anan1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Yes its legal to drive in certain bus lanes but with driving style and other road users taken into account it doesn't necessarily mean its right.

Are you suggesting we all break the law and drive in the lane to the right of the empty out-of-hours bus lane instead?

galwaytt

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Hypothetical situation.

You are driving in the bus lane, a red light is ahead and a queue of 10 cars is in the middle lane. The light goes green and you maintain speed. The other cars start to accelerate.

You pass them at 60-80kph undertaking at least 50kph faster then them.

I would say that's dangerous driving. And very few out of hours bus lane drivers I have seen would slow down enough in order to be able to meet the consequences of a car pulling in front.

Its not as bad on the other side as we are all trained to expect faster traffic on the right.

Where is this 80kph bus lane, that's what I want to know.... ?

Yes its legal to drive in certain bus lanes but with driving style and other road users taken into account it doesn't necessarily mean its right.

As you say, it's legal. End of story.
Anyhoo, what is 'right' ? The fact that the slow-to-accelerate traffic can't go any quicker, or, that you didn't feel sorry for them, and slow down. And what if that were to bring a summons for unwarranted impeding of traffic behind you (driving without due care and attention....?)

Del2005

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I'm not saying I haven't seen people using the bus lane as a correct lane and approaching slower moving traffic with care. But most people use it as an excuse to skip traffic at junctions, mainly at speed while the cars are relatively stationary and I view that as aggressive.

People aren't using it as an excuse to skip traffic, they are just passing blind sheep who continue to use the out side lane of a DC when they should be in the left most lane.

You are convientently forgetting that we have a drive on the left law here, everyone who is stopped or moving slowly in the out side lane is breaking the law, unless they are turning right ahead and then passing on the inside is OK anyway.

I think the reason you find it aggressive is because they are getting ahead of you, why don't you drive in the correct lane and these people wouldn't annoy you so much?;)

P.C.

Read the signs.

If you can use a bus lane legally, then use it.

Don't be jelouse because other people use bus lanes legally.

If you can't beat them, join them.

Mena

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You ever seen somebody done for not driving in a out of hours bus lane?

They've tried with me twice, both times on the long mile road. Both times I had to walk to the sign and point out that yes, I am actually allowed to use this lane at this time of the night. Loved it.

woodseb

I would say that's dangerous driving. And very few out of hours bus lane drivers I have seen would slow down enough in order to be able to meet the consequences of a car pulling in front.

Its not as bad on the other side as we are all trained to expect faster traffic on the right.

so what you are saying is that the real danger is people turning from right lane to left without looking

.....if they drove on the left in the first place as per the rules of the road it wouldn't be a problem;)

Anan1

Mena wrote: »

They've tried with me twice, both times on the long mile road. Both times I had to walk to the sign and point out that yes, I am actually allowed to use this lane at this time of the night. Loved it.

She said done for not driving...;)

Cuddlesworth

Anan1 wrote: »

Are you suggesting we all break the law and drive in the lane to the right of the empty out-of-hours bus lane instead?

Yes.

galwaytt wrote: »

Where is this 80kph bus lane, that's what I want to know.... ?

N11

galwaytt wrote: »

As you say, it's legal. End of story.
Anyhoo, what is 'right' ? The fact that the slow-to-accelerate traffic can't go any quicker, or, that you didn't feel sorry for them, and slow down. And what if that were to bring a summons for unwarranted impeding of traffic behind you (driving without due care and attention....?)

I'm not getting what you are saying. In the hypothetical situation above, the driver in the bus lane should decelerate to a speed where they are capable of dealing with the traffic they are undertaking. That means not driving at the limit and taking into consideration they are undertaking traffic.

Del2005 wrote: »

People aren't using it as an excuse to skip traffic, they are just passing blind sheep who continue to use the out side lane of a DC when they should be in the left most lane.

You are convientently forgetting that we have a drive on the left law here, everyone who is stopped or moving slowly in the out side lane is breaking the law, unless they are turning right ahead and then passing on the inside is OK anyway.

I think the reason you find it aggressive is because they are getting ahead of you, why don't you drive in the correct lane and these people wouldn't annoy you so much?;)

I'm not conveniently forgetting anything. In the same way you imply the road signs do not indicate a left hand turn only because the bus lane is now an active lane, I'm saying you can not prosecute somebody for not driving in the bus lane when the signs and road markings are not clear enough for drivers to read at any speed besides a crawl.

P.C. wrote: »

Read the signs.

If you can use a bus lane legally, then use it.

Don't be jelouse because other people use bus lanes legally.

If you can't beat them, join them.

If I believe that driving in the bus lane is dangerous to myself and other road users because of the speed at which I undertake cars you won't find me doing it at any time.

Mena wrote: »

They've tried with me twice, both times on the long mile road. Both times I had to walk to the sign and point out that yes, I am actually allowed to use this lane at this time of the night. Loved it.

Read the question.

woodseb wrote: »

so what you are saying is that the real danger is people turning from right lane to left without looking

.....if they drove on the left in the first place as per the rules of the road it wouldn't be a problem;)

True, but in the real world they don't. We are told to always expect high speed traffic on the right hand side where possible and account for it. Expecting it on the left hand side is not something many drivers do, yet "bus lane" drivers do this all the time.

Anan1 wrote: »

She said done for not driving...;)

She?

Anan1

cuddlesworth - So we should all disregard both the law and commonsense on your say-so? Thanks, but no thanks.

Sarn

Use the bus lane if it's not in use or out of hours. It cannot be considered aggressive driving to legally use a lane of the road simply because you disagree. If somebody doesn't check their mirrors and blind spot before changing lanes it's their fault if they have an accident and really shouldn't be driving in the first place.

What if they pull out without checking their mirrors and there's a taxi or bus coming up at speed? I frequently use the N11 and often turn off to the left. Checking to make sure nothing is there is good practice, I've had taxi's fly past me on the left when the lane is in use and don't consider it hazardous, it's expected.

DanGerMus

If you truely never drive in the bus lane CW then anything in there should never be a worry to you. Otherwise i suggest you treat maneuvering from one lane to another, right OR left, in a safe manner by observing indicating and moving. How do you feel about busses passing you on the inside by your reasoning they're dangerous too because you might suddenly decide to pull dangerously in front of them, other than their size there no different than a car.

Cuddlesworth

Anan1 wrote: »

cuddlesworth - So we should all disregard both the law and commonsense on your say-so? Thanks, but no thanks.

Keep driving in the bus lane. I'm more then capable of checking my mirrors. And the day you round that right hand bend and the artic pulls into the bus lane and ploughs your car out of it, don't come complaining here.

Sarn wrote: »

Use the bus lane if it's not in use or out of hours. It cannot be considered aggressive driving to legally use a lane of the road simply because you disagree. If somebody doesn't check their mirrors and blind spot before changing lanes it's their fault if they have an accident and really shouldn't be driving in the first place.

Yeah, its their fault. Would still prefer to avoid the accident.

Sarn wrote: »

What if they pull out without checking their mirrors and there's a taxi or bus coming up at speed?

From driving a motorbike, bus drivers approach any junction very carefully when they have to undertake or drive slowly along bus lanes during stationary traffic. They really are quite safe.

The amount of hits I have seen taxis take from a variety of maneuvers both by the taxi and the people they hit contribute to my belief that most drivers can't deal with fast moving traffic on their left. I also rarely see them slow down coming up to stationary traffic.

Mena

Anan1 wrote: »

She said done for not driving...;)

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Read the question.

Point taken, comment stands. Perhaps you'd like to do the same with the road signage :pac:

Cuddlesworth

Mena wrote: »

Point taken, comment stands. Perhaps you'd like to do the same with the road signage :pac:

You mean the small one and a half foot blue signs with text thats about 1-2 inches high placed at random locations around 15 feet from the middle lane. Or the huge unbroken white lines, giant markings on the road that say "bus" and the ones with a clear left hand turn marking and bus with a straight arrow.

Maybe you should all learn to drive defensively and see the huge risk that undertaking in a bus lane is.

Mena

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You mean the small one and a half foot blue signs with text thats about 1-2 inches high placed at random locations around 15 feet from the middle lane. Or the huge unbroken white lines, giant markings on the road that say "bus" and the ones with a clear left hand turn marking and bus with a straight arrow.

Maybe you should all learn to drive defensively and see the huge risk that undertaking in a bus lane is.

I've done plenty of advanced driving courses thanks.

However, we seem to be missing the point here. You're saying ignore the rules of the road because most people don't know the rules of the road and driving legally is going to be dangerous because most don't know said rules.

There's something inherently messed up about that.

Cuddlesworth

Mena wrote: »

I've done plenty of advanced driving courses thanks.

However, we seem to be missing the point here. You're saying ignore the rules of the road because most people don't know the rules of the road and driving legally is going to be dangerous because most don't know said rules.

There's something inherently messed up about that.

Undertaking at speed is not legal driving. There is of course the issue of the actual road signs at junctions. I would have no problem with driving in Bus lanes if

it wasn't the random car in there
people were used to it
Irish drivers could use more then two lanes


That being said, if there is a aspect of road law that is a grey area(like bus lanes) and I feel its safer to try overtake slower moving traffic then undertake then yes, I will advocate not driving in the bus lane.

And to anybody who says its not a gray area, can you tell me of a single conviction where somebody was done for not driving in the bus lane in out of hours?

Mena

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

And to anybody who says its not a gray area, can you tell me of a single conviction where somebody was done for not driving in the bus lane in out of hours?

What's the point? Driving up the N/M7 I see people hogging both overtaking lanes for miles on end, and I often see the Gardai driving along same route, and they never appear to do anything about this either. Yet, does that make it right?

stealthyspeeder

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You mean the small one and a half foot blue signs with text thats about 1-2 inches high placed at random locations around 15 feet from the middle lane. Or the huge unbroken white lines, giant markings on the road that say "bus" and the ones with a clear left hand turn marking and bus with a straight arrow.

Maybe you should all learn to drive defensively and see the huge risk that undertaking in a bus lane is.

I have 20:20 vision and can read the signs even in the dark! Maybe somebody needs glasses?:D Plus there is one nearly every other lampost, you only have to read one per road!

There wouldn't be the big risk of undertaking in a bus lane if everybody obeyed the posted rules of the lane! If you were driving in the correct lane, you would not be subject to this danger as they would be overtaking you on a dual carrigeway! So infact it is people who drive like you who are causing the danger!

Cookie_Monster

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

N11

:rolleyes:
The N11 is only 80 south of Foxrock church. There is a 24hr buslane there so you can't ever drive in it anyway