Info @ NARGC.ie

Terrier

Some new info (legal) on NARGC.ie website.

1. Lamping Foxes
2. Clarification Regarding Sound Moderators
3. What are my legal rights and Obligations if stopped by an Authorised Officer

Worth a read...

jwshooter

new hand gun ban.

no new licences will be issued for handguns .sold out by the people looking after our interests.

existing licences will be renewed but tighter controls little or no chance of getting one . sold out by the people looking after our interests

a big fxxk you guys i have my pistol and im keeping it and dont give a fxxk about any one else .
il shoot away and you can look over the fence at me .

Trojan911

Nothing really new in there.

Handgun ban to kick in, which we knew of anyway.

As for the Authorised Officer & the Gardai, they will always get my full co-operation once I see authentic I.D & they have reasonable grounds to stop me.

bunny shooter

jwshooter wrote: »

new hand gun ban.

no new licences will be issued for handguns .sold out by the people looking after our interests.

existing licences will be renewed but tighter controls little or no chance of getting one . sold out by the people looking after our interests

a big fxxk you guys i have my pistol and im keeping it and dont give a fxxk about any one else .
il shoot away and you can look over the fence at me .

reference to handgun ban was posted last November after Ministers announcement therefore, might not be that bad yet?

Sparks

I wouldn't quibble with their stuff on lamping foxes, and the advice on moderators is correct.
I'm disappointed that the stuff on mods is incomplete though. Mods are handled using letters from the Super, yes, but that's an operational thing only; it's not the only route to get them, and it doesn't lay out that Mods are actually legally firearms under the law themselves. Which is important in that if you are refused the letter, you can put in an application (same form as for a firearm) and that gives you access to the DC to contest a refusal. Which, I'll grant, isn't the sort of thing I think you should do lightly, but in cases where an obvious problem exists, that gives you access to a possible solution.

jwshooter

thats the way it is im afraid ,bunny .

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

I wouldn't quibble with their stuff on lamping foxes, and the advice on moderators is correct.
I'm disappointed that the stuff on mods is incomplete though. Mods are handled using letters from the Super, yes, but that's an operational thing only; it's not the only route to get them, and it doesn't lay out that Mods are actually legally firearms under the law themselves. Which is important in that if you are refused the letter, you can put in an application (same form as for a firearm) and that gives you access to the DC to contest a refusal. Which, I'll grant, isn't the sort of thing I think you should do lightly, but in cases where an obvious problem exists, that gives you access to a possible solution.

is there not a EU directive on noise in the work place , that superseeds irish law .
did peter jackson not have a day in court and win .
his wed site is worth a look.

Sparks

The thing about that jw, is work place.
Park Rangers would get a mod on that basis; quite probably none of us would. I know several people have been refused when that was their sole reason (it makes sense when looked at from a non-shooter's perspective, little as we enjoy it).
Not sure what case you're talking about with Jackson - have you a link?

jwshooter

where does sport, work stop and end .
if i was asked to cull some deer on a block of sika spruce by the owner and wanted a mod on my rifle .who is to say its sport or a job .

Sparks

The guy who gets paid taxes from your wages, I would imagine jw...

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

The guy who gets paid taxes from your wages, I would imagine jw...

not so .there is some thing like 10,000 deer killed officially in wicklow every year the npws shoot 200 odd between all the rangers .
there is plenty of hunters that shoot up on a 100 deer a year .

if you shoot 1 or 101 and are worried about your hearing you should be able to use a mod with out a muppet in a office thinking you will be given a contract to take some one .
after all he gave you a licence for the rifle in the first place.
the biggest problem with our supers is ignorance ,they dont know what there talking about and dont want to learn .

Sparks

jw, you cannot say that the biggest problem with supers is ignorance while saying that workplace legislation applies to a hobby. Not with a straight face, at any rate.

Look, this is law. It's very explicit. It covers workplace regulations. You are not working when you're shooting deer unless you're a ranger. That's not opinion, any more than saying that pamela anderson being female is an opinion.

Which is not to say you shouldn't have a mod; just that using that reason with a Super will get you refused for your troubles, and that's just a waste of your time. Choose a different reason (there's a few listed on the NARGC website).

jwshooter

i reckon you have been miss informed ,there is a lot of people involved in deer managemant that are not rangers .coillte shoot 100 s of deer ,goats every year as do other s , private foreatry owners ,private land owners etc.

it might be just a hobby to your self but some of us work hard at the bit we do and a mod is a important tool to do the job .

Sparks

jw, it's not about how dedicated you are, how hard you work at it or your skill level or your contribution; it is solely about whether or not your professional role includes shooting deer. If that's what you're paid for (and I mean properly paid, not a few quid out of hand), if that's what you pay taxes on, that is when the workplace legislation kicks in.
That's it, that's all. No value judgement involved, utterly impersonal. But if you're going to put inthe time to apply for a mod, you might as well get it, no?

jwshooter

Sparks wrote: »

jw, it's not about how dedicated you are, how hard you work at it or your skill level or your contribution; it is solely about whether or not your professional role includes shooting deer. If that's what you're paid for (and I mean properly paid, not a few quid out of hand), if that's what you pay taxes on, that is when the workplace legislation kicks in.
That's it, that's all. No value judgement involved, utterly impersonal. But if you're going to put inthe time to apply for a mod, you might as well get it, no?

there is no problem i have a permits for my mods on my rifles .
my point ,is a rangers hearing that shoots 20 deer a year more important than yours and you also shoot 20 a year.
whether there payed to do the job is not important if this was the case only rangers would have permits for mods in the first place

the EU directive is there to cover the work place and the super should not mess with that but they do .

also how many people with hearing problem caused by gun fire are struggling in the work place .
i know i struggle in crowed s to hear conversations.

dresden8

Sparks wrote: »

The thing about that jw, is work place.

Exactly.

If you shoot in a place where rangers work, it's a workplace.

If you shoot at a commercial range, it's a workplace.

If there's a member's bar or restaurant, with staff, it's a workplace.

Sometime's the law works in your favour.



If you can afford the legal fees, or somebody pays them for you.

Somebody else go for it.

cavan shooter

Be careful with the "its a work place route". There is a substantial amount of interconnecting legislation thats a mine field.

The safety health and Welfare at Work Act and the ancillary regulations around it including the general Application regulations 2007 which deals with noise is there to protect employees from hazards associated with the their work activities.

Therefore, to use the Act or ancillary legislation (noise regs) to argue the case for a moderator, first and foremost you need to establish an employee employer relationship. Rangers no problem/proffessional vermin controllers who do this as a living no problem but for the ordinary Joe soap (joe the plumber I believe is the new saying) :DI am afraid your on a sticky wicket.

Again section 12 of the same act deals with duties to persons not in your employment who maybe affected by your work activities, again note the relationship to gainful employment and work activities.

Now for the sting, read the noise regs and it deals with the management of risk and the management of risk looks first and foremost at a hierarchy of control which gives number one priority to elimination of the hazard (get rid of noise), working all the way down to PPE, looking at substitution and enclosure etc. i.e dont use a 308 use a 243, why have a 223 when a 22 hornet will do?? Dont use High velocity uses sub sonics.

I dont think that the examples Dresden gave will stand because those people arent going to be standing beside you when you take the shot and therfore wont be exposed to the hazard (noise) and therefore arent exposed to the risk of noise induced hearing loss.

Most ranges only allow 22lr and sub sonics and this reduces the exposure. Coilte forests are big open spaces, and in fact when you consider section 12 of the act a loud bang is far safer as it will warn people present at or in the vicinity of your shooting (work activities)

I dont believe that using the workplace style argument will get you anywhere uinless you are an employer and you have people employed to shoot for whatever reasons.

Naa dont go there on that one:o Best to go the environmental route, disturbance

J.R.

Interesting articles on the home page of N.A.R.G.C. which should clarify some issues from a legal viewpoint

http://www.nargc.ie/site.aspx

Lamping Foxes – the legal position

Clarification regarding sound moderators (silencers)

What are my legal rights & obligations if stopped by an authorised officer?

Minister Dermot Ahern T.D. outlines handguns ban

Travelling through the UK & Northern Ireland with a firearm

Clarification on the shooting of woodpigeon

Sparks

Merging with earlier thread on the same topic.

Story Man

Has the date of the NARGC National Clay Pigeon Shoot at Ardee in July been changed?

SM