Is This True?

conf101

Just saw this on Wikipedia, but we all know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable!

Magners League

Starting from the season 2009/2010 italy will field 2 teams in the Magners League, in a move to improve the competitiveness of the Italian Rugby system. The 2 teams will be based on franchises or completely organized by the Italian federation. As of february 2009, the base towns of the 2 teams are not yet defines. One should probably be Rome, the other one a big town in northern Italy.

I knew it was being discussed but has it actually been confirmed?

It's on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_union_in_Italy

Podge_irl

As far as I am aware the current state of affairs is that Italy have formally applied to partake in the Magners League, with either 2 or 4 teams, but a decision has not been made on whether or not to accept them.

thomond2006

Let's hope so, the Italian teams at present are AWFUL. Ireland U-5s could beat them.:D:D

Italian teams in the ML would give their players meaningful game time and improve the standard of Italian rugby. However, I can't see the new Italian franchises luring players like Parisse and the Bergamascos etc.

[Jackass]

I think it's a bit of premature wishful thinking on the Italians part, but this has 100% not been confirmed yet, however is under consideration (and if approved would probably not take affect until 2010/11 with the play-offs due to come in etc.)

I'd like to see it come into effect though, but the whole European Qualification process should be reviewed as a result and only top 6 ML teams go to HEC. (Italian teams get hockied year in year out in both HEC and shield competitions, does nothing for the sport - put best Italian teams in Shield unless good enough to qualify from the league, so they can compete at their own level and develop in Europe).

anonymous_joe

[Jackass] wrote: »

I think it's a bit of premature wishful thinking on the Italians part, but this has 100% not been confirmed yet, however is under consideration (and if approved would probably not take affect until 2010/11 with the play-offs due to come in etc.)

I'd like to see it come into effect though, but the whole European Qualification process should be reviewed as a result and only top 6 ML teams go to HEC. (Italian teams get hockied year in year out in both HEC and shield competitions, does nothing for the sport - put best Italian teams in Shield unless good enough to qualify from the league, so they can compete at their own level and develop in Europe).

Bizarre rumours that the South Africans will be joining soon.

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bizarre rumours that the South Africans will be joining soon.

Speaking of which, whatever happened to that rather odd Rainbow Cup that was announced a number of years back and then forgotten about just as quickly?

themont85

Podge_irl wrote: »

Speaking of which, whatever happened to that rather odd Rainbow Cup that was announced a number of years back and then forgotten about just as quickly?

Ye that was a weird one. Wasn't that the ML, Saffers teams and Italians. It came out around the time when the Welsh were dumped out of the ML for joining the Anglo Welsh, it seemed to die then. I don't even understand the concept of it, we play different seasons which overlap but not at a feasible time imo.

One thing I would love to see is an annual Heineken Cup v S14 winners game. World Club champion of sorts.

bleg

confirmed. friend of mine saw the minutes of the irfu meeting last month. in the 2010 season italian teams will be included. deal done.

Diamondmaker

themont85 wrote: »

Ye that was a weird one. Wasn't that the ML, Saffers teams and Italians. It came out around the time when the Welsh were dumped out of the ML for joining the Anglo Welsh, it seemed to die then. I don't even understand the concept of it, we play different seasons which overlap but not at a feasible time imo.

One thing I would love to see is an annual Heineken Cup v S14 winners game. World Club champion of sorts.

Awesome ! Agreed!

One thing mooted here that diod not take off was an NRL vs S14 compromise exhibition game.
It may yet rare its head if finaces keep on tightening up for both codes.

Podge_irl

The NRL vs HEC/GP/Something or other champion has happened before has it not? It was played with one half of each but its kind of hard to do though because the league guys will win playing league rules whereas the union guys can't really scrummage or ruck properly against the league players so its not really a fair contest.

pucan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bizarre rumours that the South Africans will be joining soon.

Makes more sense than them participating in the super-14, in terms of time zones and flights

Ceartgoleor

The Italians will make huge strides if, as expected, they have two sides in the Magners next year. Should serve to make the Six Nations even more competitive in years to come.

louthandproud

From todays times:


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0217/1224241277385.html

This means that we are now less likely to get the saffers joining as it will just be too many teams and too much travelling.

The Italians realistically offer nothing to the comp,I dont welcome their dirty play or ridiculously low supporting numbers and its a sad day for the league if they are included at the expence of the Safffer super 14 teams,which would have made our league the best in europe imo.

anonymous_joe

pucan wrote: »

Makes more sense than them participating in the super-14, in terms of time zones and flights

Yeah, it does, though it flies in the face of tradition, something rugby's a bit obsessed with. ^^

Gwen Late Stick wrote: »

This means that we are now less likely to get the saffers joining as it will just be too many teams and too much travelling.

The Italians realistically offer nothing to the comp,I dont welcome their dirty play or ridiculously low supporting numbers and its a sad day for the league if they are included at the expence of the Safffer super 14 teams,which would have made our league the best in europe imo.

THat's unfair on the Italians. Sergio Parisse's one of the most exciting players in the world.

I'd like to see the Italians get a chance to develop their game, and hopefulyl we'll get to see a new side to their game.

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

THat's unfair on the Italians. Sergio Parisse's one of the most exciting players in the world.

I'd like to see the Italians get a chance to develop their game, and hopefulyl we'll get to see a new side to their game.

Sergio Parisse isnt even Italian and plays in France,he never came through their system just like the majority of their backs.

They clearly have not put in their own work into developing their own game and instead spend their efforts on poaching good Argentinian players and journeymen kiwis and aussies.
I dont see what more they want?

They seem to want to be handed everything.

If you look at there team list and see the nationalities, it shows how they have barely any grass roots level rugby and Nick Mallet has had to start paying young saffers and aussies,kiwis to come over to gain citizenship to suppliment them.

people talk about them lacking the backs,they lack everywhere,all their good players are poached.

Carlos Nieto-Argentina
Sergio Parisse-Argentina
Martin Castrogiovanni-Argentina
Carlo Del Fava-South Africa
Santiago Dellapè-Argentina
Josh Sole-New Zealand
Paul Griffen-New Zealand
Luke McLean-Australia
Gonzalo Canale-Argentina
Kaine Robertson-New Zealand

Half their players wikipedias dont state their country of birth,but I bet most are not italian.

They claim to be hindered by the IRB trying to keep rugby a private members club but it seems to me they spend far more poaching other nations talent then developing their own players.

They are asking for 4 teams in the magners league so they can play all these foreigners Nick Mallet has poached,so they can get residency,because there is no way in hell italy can suppliment even 1 team with italian players.

anonymous_joe

Gwen Late Stick wrote: »

Sergio Parisse isnt even Italian and plays in France,he never came through their system just like the majority of their backs.

They clearly have not put in their own work into developing their own game and instead spend their efforts on poaching good Argentinian players and journeymen kiwis and aussies.
I dont see what more they want?

They seem to want to be handed everything.

If you look at there team list and see the nationalities, it shows how they have barely any grass roots level rugby and Nick Mallet has had to start paying young saffers and aussies,kiwis to come over to gain citizenship to suppliment them.

people talk about them lacking the backs,they lack everywhere,all their good players are poached.

Carlos Nieto-Argentina
Sergio Parisse-Argentina
Martin Castrogiovanni-Argentina
Carlo Del Fava-South Africa
Santiago Dellapè-Argentina
Josh Sole-New Zealand
Paul Griffen-New Zealand
Luke McLean-Australia
Gonzalo Canale-Argentina
Kaine Robertson-New Zealand

Half their players wikipedias dont state their country of birth,but I bet most are not italian.

They claim to be hindered by the IRB trying to keep rugby a private members club but it seems to me they spend far more poaching other nations talent then developing their own players.

They are asking for 4 teams in the magners league so they can play all these foreigners Nick Mallet has poached,so they can get residency,because there is no way in hell italy can suppliment even 1 team with italian players.

Parrise actually is Italian. His parents are both Italian anyway.

Most of their Argentinians are Oriundi anyway. Anyway, most teams steal foreign players.

To use an example, Luke McClean has an Italian mother, that's better than Riki Flutey or Isaac Boss.

LilOc

The problem with that is... so what about the European competition?

Welsh, Scottish and Irish sides already knew each others and now Italian clubs are in too...?

Nothing 'Celtic' about that championship as well anymore.

Anyway, let's see first how it goes.

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Parrise actually is Italian. His parents are both Italian anyway.

Most of their Argentinians are Oriundi anyway. Anyway, most teams steal foreign players.

To use an example, Luke McClean has an Italian mother, that's better than Riki Flutey or Isaac Boss.

I agree about Parisse's parents etc,but it doesnt take away from the fact he,like so many other italian players,do not learn their rugby in italy.
They dont seem to be developing rugby like they should imo.

Stev_o

LilOc wrote: »

The problem with that is... so what about the European competition?

Welsh, Scottish and Irish sides already knew each others and now Italian clubs are in too...?

Nothing 'Celtic' about that championship as well anymore.

Anyway, let's see first how it goes.

Because we all love the Magners League because it embodies the Celtic spirit of not caring for a micky mouse league.

The Italians joining can only be a good team, for one it'll wake some certain teams up to putting out full squads as i very much doubt most fans will put up with their team loosing to one of them. The only thing that will bother me is the amount of expat's they got in their big teams, if they can get more Italian blood into them all the better.

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Parrise actually is Italian

No he isn't. He is Argentinian born and bred.
Players like he are what is colloquailly known as 'Los Argentilianos'. They qualify to play for Italy. Not necessarily a bad thing and wholly predictable considering the state of the club game in Argentina (still amateur).
Lots of Spain's club and national players are Argentinians too.

ironingbored

Gwen Late Stick wrote: »

Sergio Parisse isnt even Italian and plays in France,he never came through their system just like the majority of their backs.

They clearly have not put in their own work into developing their own game and instead spend their efforts on poaching good Argentinian players and journeymen kiwis and aussies.
I dont see what more they want?

They seem to want to be handed everything.

If you look at there team list and see the nationalities, it shows how they have barely any grass roots level rugby and Nick Mallet has had to start paying young saffers and aussies,kiwis to come over to gain citizenship to suppliment them.

people talk about them lacking the backs,they lack everywhere,all their good players are poached.

Carlos Nieto-Argentina
Sergio Parisse-Argentina
Martin Castrogiovanni-Argentina
Carlo Del Fava-South Africa
Santiago Dellapè-Argentina
Josh Sole-New Zealand
Paul Griffen-New Zealand
Luke McLean-Australia
Gonzalo Canale-Argentina
Kaine Robertson-New Zealand

Half their players wikipedias dont state their country of birth,but I bet most are not italian.

They claim to be hindered by the IRB trying to keep rugby a private members club but it seems to me they spend far more poaching other nations talent then developing their own players.

They are asking for 4 teams in the magners league so they can play all these foreigners Nick Mallet has poached,so they can get residency,because there is no way in hell italy can suppliment even 1 team with italian players.

To be honest Goose your ignorance of rugby in Italy is staggering.

1) Sergio Parisse's father Sergio Snr was a much respected winger for Aquila (Rome) before moving to Argentina, where Sergio Jnr was born. Roughly 40% of the Argentinian population is of Italian extraction.

2) Rugby in Italy is less popular than cycling, volleyball, basketball and motorcycling. The Federazione Italiana Rugby has been carrying out sterling work on a grass roots level in recent years. Rugby in Italy is principally conventrated in the Northeastern Veneto region and central Italy around Rome. There was a very informative article by Paddy Agnew (IT Correspondent, Rome) in Saturday Sport last weekend.

3) If two franchise teams (North East and Central) are set up and financed properly I am convinced that star players like Parisse, Bortolami and the Bergamasco brothers would prefer to play at home and promote the sport nationally (more than they currently do).

4)
Isaac Boss: born NZ
Ronan O'Gara: born San Diego
Tom Court: born Brisbane
Jamie Heaslip: born Israel
Simon Easterby: born Yorkshire
Guy Easterby: born Yorkshire

Fishtits

It seems that the way forward is for Italy to adopt the Irish model and form Provincial teams as opposed to clubs.

Its envisaged that they will form two Provincial sides for inclusion in future Magniers league competitions.

The powers that be are all in favour of this course of action, the only stumbling blocks are congestion in Magniers fixtures and inevitably Italian politics and who gets paid what etc... :rolleyes:

RtD

Call me a bit cynical but could the Italian teams end up being to the 'Celtic' teams effectively what Connacht is to an extent to Irish rugby at the minute, basically somewhere players that aren't getting game time at home will head off to and hope that their increased exposure during the Magners will up their stock. What sort of quotas for foreign players would be put in place?

If this becomes the case it could perhaps lead to being more beneficial to Ireland than Italy in the short term, though perhaps in the longer term two vaguely alright teams in a proper international league will help raise the profile of the game among Italian youngsters, increasing the future player base.

themont85

Ideally the Italians should be put into the French league because it makes much more geographical and financial sense imo.

Not a hope though cos the French don't need them and they wouldn't be able to poach their best players anymore.

Fair play to the three respective unions here. They didn't need the Italians, in fact it makes little sense for us to have them in just another fixture headache and will cost more than before.

Those unions do owe the 'minnows' a thing or two though after they put self interest ahead of the games expansion in the shambles that was the decision to give NZ the 2011 WC.

conf101

themont85 wrote: »

Those unions do owe the 'minnows' a thing or two though after they put self interest ahead of the games expansion in the shambles that was the decision to give NZ the 2011 WC.

Sirry to go off topic but how was that a shambles?

themont85

conf101 wrote: »

Sirry to go off topic but how was that a shambles?

As the head of the Japan bid said, the big rugby nations just pass on the money train between them. A major factor in Ireland voting for NZ was that the All Blacks would play an extra game in Ireland around the time of the new LR. Its all self interest. Its similar to the 2007 decision in that France gave the three Celtic Nations a few games, to the detriment of the tournament, in order to secure votes. The WC voting process and in general decisions have been skewed to much in favour of the bigger countries and to line their own union pockets.

That is why i'm slightly suprised the IRFU/SRU and WRU agreed to the Italians coming into the ML. I'm trying to take a cynical approach to this but i can't really, it seems the decision is based on enhancing Italian rugby, which can only be a good thing.

Now with the Argies and Italians almost sorted out by the IRB, they can take steps to further the game in places like Russia, Canada, the US ect.

God1991

good all round for the copetitiveness of it but isnt it a distance to travell for away matches

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

No he isn't. He is Argentinian born and bred.
Players like he are what is colloquailly known as 'Los Argentilianos'. They qualify to play for Italy. Not necessarily a bad thing and wholly predictable considering the state of the club game in Argentina (still amateur).
Lots of Spain's club and national players are Argentinians too.

His dad wnet there because he worked for Alitalia. His wife is also Italian. Sergio spent his childhood summers in Italy. He's Italian. At least he's as Italian as all those Irish born to Irish parents in the UK or America. So I'm not going to call him Argie, unlike many others.

anonymous_joe

anonymous_joe wrote: »

His dad wnet there because he worked for Alitalia. His wife is also Italian. Sergio spent his childhood summers in Italy. He's Italian. At least he's as Italian as all those Irish born to Irish parents in the UK or America. So I'm not going to call him Argie, unlike many others.

His wife is French.Miss France 2006 Alexandra Rosenfeld,a delish dish tbh.I would argue there isnt a hotter spouse in world rugby.Maybe a new thread is called for.
Unless you mean Sergios mum,in which case im still leaving the pic up



Sergios number 1 fan

Amazotheamazing

This thread was about something, but after seeing those photo's I just can't remember what....

anonymous_joe

Gwen Late Stick wrote: »

His wife is French.Miss France 2006 Alexandra Rosenfeld,a delish dish tbh.I would argue there isnt a hotter spouse in world rugby.Maybe a new thread is called for.
Unless you mean Sergios mum,in which case im still leaving the pic up



Sergios number 1 fan

Look at my post again. Badly phrased as it is, his dad is Italian, his wife is too. His dad's wife that is, i.e. his mother. :pac:

Sorry I got mixed up,I apologise with another picture.

Crash

I for one welcome our Italian french argentinian....wait a minute is that camel toe??

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

His dad wnet there because he worked for Alitalia. His wife is also Italian. Sergio spent his childhood summers in Italy. He's Italian. At least he's as Italian as all those Irish born to Irish parents in the UK or America. So I'm not going to call him Argie, unlike many others.

His girlfriend is French. I suppose because she is Jewish, this makes him Jewish too? :rolleyes:

He was born and bred in Argentina. He learnt to play rugby union in Argentina and only left there when 18 yrs old. He is Argentinian and plays for Italy because he qualifies to do so.
He's about as Italian as Kevin Pietersen is English.
I don't care where he went on summer vacations. I used to go with my faimily to Vanuatu sometimes as a kid. Does that make me a Vanuatuan? lol

Serenity Now!

Serenity Now! wrote: »

His girlfriend is French. I suppose because she is Jewish, this makes him Jewish too? :rolleyes:

He was born and bred in Argentina. He learnt to play rugby union in Argentina and only left there when 18 yrs old. He is Argentinian and plays for Italy because he qualifies to do so.
He's about as Italian as Kevin Pietersen is English.
I don't care where he went on summer vacations. I used to go with my faimily to Vanuatu sometimes as a kid. Does that make me a Vanuatuan? lol

Calm down.

Click page 2 there,some nice pics for you.

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

His girlfriend is French. I suppose because she is Jewish, this makes him Jewish too? :rolleyes:

He was born and bred in Argentina. He learnt to play rugby union in Argentina and only left there when 18 yrs old. He is Argentinian and plays for Italy because he qualifies to do so.
He's about as Italian as Kevin Pietersen is English.
I don't care where he went on summer vacations. I used to go with my faimily to Vanuatu sometimes as a kid. Does that make me a Vanuatuan? lol

If you had two Irish parents and were born in England waht would you be? :P

Crash

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If you had two Irish parents and were born in England waht would you be? :P

Surely you should ask Shane Geraghty that question?

anonymous_joe

Going Waterforward wrote: »

Surely you should ask Shane Geraghty that question?

And his answer is interesting.

He felt that he'd been raised and schooled in England, and against his dad's wishes he felt he owed England more so he played for them.

Parisse said he felt Italian. He'd spent his childhood summers in Italy, etc, he had two Italian parents, he spoke Italian at home, etc. So he chose Italy.

Compare him to Isaac Boss. :P

Serenity Now!

anonymous_joe wrote: »

If you had two Irish parents and were born in England waht would you be? :P

Anything you want but if you were brought up there too, you'd be from England.

anonymous_joe

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Anything you want but if you were brought up there too, you'd be from England.

Debatable in all honesty. (I've a really aggravating feeling I spelt that wrong, and it's going to bug me now.)

Italy has a long tradition of using Argentinians (the Oriundi of football) because 40% of Argentina is of Italian ancestry. Parisse in all fairness is more Italian than most of them, and has said he feels Italian. So I'd not complain about that.

Anyway, he's infinitely better than Kaine Robinson etc.