Anyone interested in putting together a 'political party'???

industrialhorse

YO!

only really new to boards.ie although i was a member some years back.

just gotta say that this country has really gone to the dogs since then and this half-baked right-wing government saw it coming but never really got off their arses to do anything about it.

i firmly believe that its down to the most original and intelligent people to save this land and its decent people from mediocrity and by that i mean only people who are tuned into the alternative side of life that can make a real change.

calling together any system analysts, web designers/developers, programmers, musicians and allsorts to bring their views into the mix and see what we can come up with?? whos interested???

neo-nazis need not apply:D

turgon

Its so Irish to think that one can have a one-size fits all party.

And of late its so boards.ie to try and create one.

But anyway, some constructive comments maybe. Well it would have to be different from current parties, so liberal on social issues such as abortion and stuff like stem cell research.

Iwasfrozen

I would be interested in joining/helping out, but what is the name/leanings/ideology of the party ?

seanybiker

ill join but only if we call it seanies party

Iwasfrozen

I'm out.*



*Reasons above.

nyarlothothep

Anarchism! Though we'd have to call it something else so as not to scare people. I agree with you, we tech heads/musicians/intellectuals are truly the bless'd people.

AngryHippie

call me when its fully baked

Daroxtar

nyarlothothep wrote: »

I agree with you, we tech heads/musicians/intellectuals are truly the bless'd people.

But of course o learned one. A poor carpenter like me can only build your ivory towers and castles in the air:P

Iwasfrozen

pffft, who needs Ivory Towers. :pac:

PurpleFistMixer

On the small offchance that the OP is not joking, I'd suggest you research into what existing parties there are in Ireland atm... there are far more than just FF/FG. ; p

getonyourboots

The first thing any new party should concentrate on is radical reform of the justice system. Currently there is effectively no justice for many many victims of varies crimes. The scumbags are laughing at all of us.

AngryHippie

Yeah, a new political party really needs the trouble of taking on the Law society and high court. tbh I think any political organization that can get health and education right will find itself in a position to accomplish the rest of any manifesto, But I'm not sure the web of the HSE can be unravelled into a workable system, without billions that just don't exist anymore.... And its tricky enough just to keep schools open without the nightmare of restructuring the system to benefit those left behind, considering the raft of social problems that affect any individual childs education. Where would you start ???

turgon

AngryHippie wrote: »

Where would you start ???

Money first, I hear this bank called Anglo Irish are very amenable towards lending lots of money to individuals...

Agent Smith

industrialhorse wrote: »

YO!

only really new to boards.ie although i was a member some years back.

just gotta say that this country has really gone to the dogs since then and this half-baked right-wing government saw it coming but never really got off their arses to do anything about it.

i firmly believe that its down to the most original and intelligent people to save this land and its decent people from mediocrity and by that i mean only people who are tuned into the alternative side of life that can make a real change.

calling together any system analysts, web designers/developers, programmers, musicians and allsorts to bring their views into the mix and see what we can come up with?? whos interested???

neo-nazis need not apply:D

• Where To Apply

Information

The purpose of registering a political party in the Register of Political Parties is that candidates at elections who are members of registered parties may add their parties' name to their own names on the ballot paper. If the party that you belong to is not included on the Register, you will be described as a non-party candidate on the ballot paper. The Registrar and the actual Register of Political Parties are based in the Houses of the Oireachtas, Dublin.
Under Section 25 of the Electoral Act, 1992, as substituted by the Electoral Act, 2001, you can apply to the Registrar of Political Parties in order to register your own political party in any of the following elections in Ireland:

• Dáil elections
• European elections
• Local elections
• Election to Údarás na Gaeltachta

Rules

To be registered, your party has to satisfy the Registrar that:

• It is organised to contest elections
• It does not have less than 300 recorded members aged 18 or over. A party that applies for registration as a party organised to contest elections in part of the State, local elections or elections to Údarás na Gaeltachta only needs 100 recorded members aged 18 or over and at least least half of the party's recorded members are on the Register of Electors. Or
• The party has at least one member who, at the time of the application, is a member of the Dáil or a representative of the European Parliament and who certifies in writing to the Registrar that he or she is a member of the party
• In the case of a party that applies as a party organised to contest only local elections, the party has at least three members who, at the time of application, are members of a local authority and who each certify that he or she is a member of the party
• In the case of a party that applies as a party organised to only contest elections to Údarás na Gaeltachta, the party has at least one member who, at the time of application, is a member of Údarás na Gaeltachta and certifies that he or she is a member of the party.

In addition, the party must have a constitution, a memorandum or another document or set of rules that have been adopted by the party and that provide for:

• An annual or other periodic meeting or conference of the party
• An executive committee or similar body elected by the party, which administers the business of the party.

A party will not be registered if its name:

• Is identical to the name, abbreviation or acronym of the name of any registered party or so closely resembles the name, abbreviation or acronym of the name of a party as to be likely to confuse the public, or
• Consists of more than six words or
• In the case of a party operating in relation to a particular part of the State, does not include sufficient reference to that part to make it clear that the party only operates in relation to that part.

An application to register a political party emblem will not be granted if the emblem:

• Is likely to be confused by voters with a registered emblem used by another party
• Is obscene or offensive
• Is of such a character that its publication would be likely to amount to the commission of a offence
• Includes a word or expression, which if it was or was part of the party's name, would prevent the party from being registered.

Unregistered parties are entitled to fight elections but the party's name will not appear on the ballot paper.
The following details are entered in the Register of Political Parties:

• The name of the party, including any abbreviation or acronym
• The emblem, if an application for its registration has been granted
• The address of the party's headquarters
• The name or names of the officer or officers of the party who are authorised to sign certificates authenticating the party's candidates at elections
• The type or types of election that the party is registered as being organised to contest
• Where the party is registered as organised to contest elections in a specified part of the State, a reference to that fact and to the part of the State concerned
• The name of any political group with which the party is affiliated.

When the Registrar has considered your application for registration, you will be notified of the decision and informed about the reasons for refusal if your application is refused and details of how to appeal the decision. Notice of decision will be published in Iris Oifigiúil. (Iris Oifigiúil is the official means used by the Irish Government to announce appointments to public offices and publish proclamations; statutory instruments; appointment of receivers to companies; etc.).
Appeals can be made in writing, within 21 days of the decision, to the Clerk of the Seanad together with a deposit of €634.87. The appeal board consists of a Judge of the High Court acting as Chairman, and the Chairman of the Dáil and the Chairman of the Seanad.
Anyone can inspect the register of political parties in Ireland by contacting the office of the Registrar and making an appointment (see "Where to apply").



Now STFO

AngryHippie

Cheers for that smithy, that was nearly all news to me:)

wylo

This must be about the 10th 'lets start a new party' thread, will someone give me a pm when its up and running, im sick of checking back on all the different new parties.

Agent Smith

AngryHippie wrote: »

Cheers for that smithy, that was nearly all news to me:)

This, and More other interesting things, including porn, can be found on our good friend Google!


back to the case in hand. No, people wont join your political party. Saying your pissed off with it all and saying your starting your own party, is like saying "its my ball, i'm going home" and then going over to the other side of the park to play. Its neither Big nor clever. and I honnestly thing 99.99999% of people have this idea when booze is involved.

turgon

Agent Smith wrote: »

This, and More other interesting things, including porn, can be found on our good friend Google!

Fixed that, in fairness the technicalities of starting a party aren't what I would describe as exiting.

joe freethinker

turgon wrote: »

Its so Irish to think that one can have a one-size fits all party.

And of late its so boards.ie to try and create one.

But anyway, some constructive comments maybe. Well it would have to be different from current parties, so liberal on social issues such as abortion and stuff like stem cell research.

i'm very interested in a new liberal party
a new political energy in ireland
FOR THE SAKE OF THE NATION DRAW UP SOME SORT OF MANIFESTO!!!

brianthebard

our policy and manifesto

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

pwd

how about a party that advocates the use of internet forums for all government debate, instead of in-person meetings. It would have many advantages I think

joe freethinker

I mentioned manifesto and i got a marxist and a libertarian
marx: no way 4 me
libertarian:interesting but still believe in public health and education aswell as social welfare by the state.The poor already have an uphill battle private charity always falls short
libertarianism is good for me as I believe in personal freedom and equality and government regulation on businness can cause burocracy and hinder human creativity but some government control is nessary just look at the state of the banks

smallBiscuit

I've been thinking about this lately, in the sense, I'm not happy with what we have, so what do I want?
So, here's a manifesto for ya,

Am i mad or just dreaming?

Corporations
All limited corporations to be loosely regulated by the government to ensure they are fully compliant with the below stuff

Environment
I think (know) that what we as a species are doing to the environment is having a major effect. We need to do a lot more recycling, greener energy sources, greener transport (painting your car green does not count!), public education

Education
"The children of today are the leaders of tomorrow", that's not just a saying it's a fact! Massive increases in funding to schools and University's, school/teacher quality to be improved (not saying it's currently bad), but maybe -yearly examinations?.

Medical
Everyone has the right to good health care, for hundred's of years humanity has been improving on the abilities of health care, should we now after all that say "sorry, it's nice but you can't afford it"? Keep the private health care companies, but the only difference to be private rooms and better quality food. Also lots of research work into cures for various diseases (perhaps tie this into the University's, but if we funded the work, we own it, not the brains in the University's

Law
The courts and jails are massively overcrowded, the number of re-offenders are far to high. Rehabilitation and or re-education for the first offence, same for a second followed by a looong prison sentence (like the us 3 strike rule) but this tempered by intelligence, for Minor crimes perhaps not the long sentence.
Also, much 'harder' prisons, small cells in which prisoners stay for most of the time (Single person cells) followed by long re-integration and close monitoring

Party donations
All party donations to be anonymous, not a company saying "we want the this law passed or delayed, here's a few million for the party"

Transparency
No secret decisions, or private meetings, we work for the public, therefore they have the right to know everything we are doing at every point

Accountability
This is a personal bug bear of mine, If I say we are going to build a a public transport system, and we are going to do it this way. If this way doesn't work out, I can be called to a tribunal to account for my decision, even if I'm no longer in the government. If I'm suspected of being on the fiddle in some way, their is a jail cell waiting for me

Taxation
Obviously all these idea's take lots of money to implement, so increased taxation, and make it fair for everyone, they more you earn the more you pay, as in millionaire's pay a lot of money (50/60% taxation) - the country's going well for you, so you should pay it back. While almost no tax for the low earners, they are having it hard enough to get by as it is. No tax breaks above a certain wage level and anyone caught on the fiddle will have to pay back double or triple
Government pay to be set to be equal to the average middle class wage, no more and limited staffing and expenses.

af_thefragile

Ireland, this whole world needs more Libertarian parties.
Form one and i'll support you. As long as ye all don't end up becoming power hungry politicians!!!

Okay, i'll give more details:

Civil Liberties:
Basically the party should support rights,freedom and liberty to the people.
Everyone is an individual and thus have equal rights. No "us" and "them" crap. No classes. No cctvs, no infringement of privacy. More patrolling cops instead of cctvs but they only stop and check if the subject is taking part in any illegal activity. No random checking and all. No ID card bull **** either.

Economic:
Government get involved very little with businesses. Basically a big NO to any sort of government bail outs of failed businesses. If they fail, well, too bad for them!! Also need to give them the opportunity to learn from their mistakes!
But the government encourages entrepreneurship and free markets creating more jobs and development of infrastructure. Strictly enforce the minimum wage. Put a cap on the profits of the businesses to a certain limit so that they don't exploit (controversial but this might just as well be the key!!). Enforce strict environmental protection laws. Businesses need to be transparent.

Employment, social support and health care:
No to the dole (well not for the useless young people deciding its too much effort for them to work!). Get the feckers off their lazy asses and get them working!!
All up for social support for the needy and free quality health care for all (but make sure people don't exploit). Its unjust that the cost of a person's life should be proportional to the size of the person's bank account! Everyone's life should be treated equally valuable (might be exceptions here in extreme cases).


Taxation:
Big one.
Reduce income tax. Yup, and the people love this one! 35-40% is ridiculous! People work hard to earn their money just for the government to come and claim a significant portion of it is just unjust! The government needs to increase its revenue to make up for its expenses. Reduce spending/expenses!
Low taxes + Reduced spending +Increased revenue = Better State!!


Banking/Financial:
No private/quasi-private central reserve banks. Also not a big supporter of the fiat standard of monetary system. Government has the power of the states finances with money having proper value which they can't just produce out of thin air creating debts and inflation. But guess we can't do much here as we're under the EU.
But complete transparency here with how the government manages its money. People need to know and see where and how their government is spending their money.
Everyone has a right to quality housing. Community housing should be upto high standards. People should be able to do whatever they want with their houses or property. However they wanna design it and stuff. They shouldn't need to take the government's permission to do anything with their land and property! They bought it, they have full rights to it!

Education:
This is the key!
Everyone has a right, no wait, a duty to education!
I also think the education system needs a reform. Its not creative enough. The kids aren't learning enough. Schools aren't fun enough. The teachers aren't paid enough! Also the teachers aren't good enough. First and foremost we need quality teachers who have the skills to teach in an interesting manner which can be fun. So the teachers need to get educated first. Then the schools need to be better equipped. I think privatization of schools is not a bad idea at all. Though i don't say there shouldn't be state run schools. Then the standards need to be raised. Finally schools need to make sure the students move on to universities. No drop outs! Everyone has a duty to attain a university degree in some field and work as a professional! Only then will there be enough educated people in the country working towards proper progress for the benefit of all. Universities need to be better equipped to be able to deal and lead on the latest in scientific, economic, art and architectural knowledge and progress.

Transport/Infrastructure:
This is where the government needs to do major spending. We need proper engineering firms with properly educated people working in it (see the Education bit). Ireland should be on par with countries like Germany, UAE and Japan in terms of infrastructure and engineering. Its a long way to go but we need to start somewhere! Ireland needs more industries in the secondary (manufacturing) sector working on 21st century cutting edge technology (hence why education is the key!). This will create industry, jobs, infrastructure, tourism and revenue.
Privatization is probably a good thing here in most cases.
Also the only way to deal with Dublin's increasing population is to go up! Ireland needs bigger and taller residential and commercial building. This is an area we really have to catch up on!
Oh and better, newer, greener public services. Need to look into new technologies like mag rail and such to create more efficient and greener transportation services that don't need to cost a fortune!!

Energy/Environment:
Go green! Develop a renewable energy infrastructure. Ireland has a great resource of wind, rivers and sea that it can tap clean renewable energy from. Reduce spending, increase efficiency, create renewable energy sources. Also need to look into proper management of waste. There is surprisingly a lot of energy that can be tapped out of domestic trash too!

What else,
No wars. I don't think the separation of church and the state would be a great idea. The judicial system needs to get more efficient and use more logical common sense.
People need to be educated about their rights, freedom, duties and moral obligations. People need to become more responsible for their actions. Government isn't gonna pay for or fix mistakes people make. They bought it upon themselves, they need to learn from it.


I don't really ask for much you see...

dizzywizlw

industrialhorse wrote: »

YO!

only really new to boards.ie although i was a member some years back.

just gotta say that this country has really gone to the dogs since then and this half-baked right-wing government saw it coming but never really got off their arses to do anything about it.

i firmly believe that its down to the most original and intelligent people to save this land and its decent people from mediocrity and by that i mean only people who are tuned into the alternative side of life that can make a real change.

calling together any system analysts, web designers/developers, programmers, musicians and allsorts to bring their views into the mix and see what we can come up with?? whos interested???

neo-nazis need not apply:D

Are we Federalists with regard to the European Union?

O'Coonassa

af_thefragile wrote: »

I don't think the separation of church and the state would be a great idea.

lol I was cheering for you and I'd thanked you and then I saw this ^

I don't know what went wrong with you lol

KeyLimePie

the first manifesto is very liberal and the second is conservative..

af_thefragile

O'Coonassa wrote: »

lol I was cheering for you and I'd thanked you and then I saw this ^

I don't know what went wrong with you lol

Well, i have my reasons.
I believe religion is a good thing and the government should support religious ideas and thoughts.
Think about it, its mostly because Ireland is a strongly catholic country we've got anti-abortion laws and stuff like that. If there weren't black and white laws of religion, people would keep debating about matters forever and everything would end up falling in the grey area and many people could get away with doing many wrong things by manipulating the meaning of what can be defined "wrong" or "immoral".

I don't say the government should shove its religion down people's throat. It should just support religious establishments and well, i believe in freedom of religion (goes with the libertarian ideologies) and everyone can practice whatever religion they want to.

But i believe religion should stay away from schools. It should be the parents job to teach their kids about things like religion and sex education and all. The schools shouldn't interfere with such matters. Also the government shouldn't interfere with such matters.

And i don't wanna get into the is religion good or bad debate.

turgon

af_thefragile wrote: »

It should be the parents job to teach their kids about things like ... sex education and all.

Because that has worked so well up to now.

Parents dont want to teach there kids that. Instead most just blanket ban it and you end up with people not having a clue what theyre doing.

"Dy-mystifying" sex, as donegalfella put it, is too important to be left with parents.

For examply my parent catholic so chastity etc. Thats all Im thought, and the topic of sex isnt even discussed. I dont do chastity, but instead of being educated Im left with this void and having to figure things out myself. not good.

af_thefragile

turgon wrote: »

Because that has worked so well up to now.

Parents dont want to teach there kids that. Instead most just blanket ban it and you end up with people not having a clue what theyre doing.

"Dy-mystifying" sex, as donegalfella put it, is too important to be left with parents.

For examply my parent catholic so chastity etc. Thats all Im thought, and the topic of sex isnt even discussed. I dont do chastity, but instead of being educated Im left with this void and having to figure things out myself. not good.

I think it has worked pretty well all along. All throughout time the only way people learnt about sex was through their parents or discovering it on their own.

When it is taught in school you don't know who your kids are learning about such matters from and what they're being taught about it. Also many parents believe in different ideologies and principles from one "standardised state ideology of principles and morals".

It should be the parents duties to make sure what their kids are upto and letting them know about the dangers of unprotected sex out there. People need to take responsibility of their kids and themselves. That is main point of my whole manifesto. People need to stop depending on the state to do everything for them while they remain lazy.

Then finally what really is there to be taught about sex? Most people end up discovering it themselves and thats kinda an integral part of growing up. When you start teaching 12 yr old kids about STDs and safe sex practices, it'll only end up with them wanting to try it out. Its only gonna speed up their physical maturity processes before their mental maturity process which only ends up making things worse. More teen pregnancies and more STDs. You can't make things any better though communism! (Atleast not right now, humanity hasn't reached that level of maturity yet. It's still recovering from the animal it was).

If you don't believe with me, i respect your opinion.

markesmith

A party that puts the welfare of the individual at its heart would do well, with the right kind of orator that gets the point across. I mean I don't even know who Labour's leader is these days.

I think a party that is essentially leftist (better & cheaper health & education), with ecological overtones, and a slightly right-of-centre approach to immigration and crime, would do well in Ireland. Note how I said "slightly right-of-centre". As in realistic.

Flame me!

af_thefragile

markesmith wrote: »

A party that puts the welfare of the individual at its heart would do well, with the right kind of orator that gets the point across. I mean I don't even know who Labour's leader is these days.

I think a party that is essentially leftist (better & cheaper health & education), with ecological overtones, and a slightly right-of-centre approach to immigration and crime, would do well in Ireland. Note how I said "slightly right-of-centre". As in realistic.

Flame me!

You kinda there managed to fuse the worst aspects of both the left and right ideologies!!
Hitler and Stalin would be proud!

markesmith

af_thefragile wrote: »

You kinda there managed to fuse the worst aspects of both the left and right ideologies!!
Hitler and Stalin would be proud!

Absolutely ridiculous, af_thefragile. Would you prefer I included state-sponsored terror, forced labour of political dissidents, ethnic cleansing to "improve" the genetic stock, and an ideal of living space for our people in Wales?

The reason a good orator is required is that Irish people respond to this. Good speaking skills does not necessarily translate to Hitler. The welfare of the individual should be a given in politics.

A slightly right-of-centre approach to crime and immigration - how do you see totalitarianism in that? In my town, a guy has just been fined €250 for threatening three Gardai with a knife - I'm sure that fine will ensure he does not re-offend. And I'm not talking about locking him up for life, but a realistic approach is required.

And unfettered immigration is a problem, leading to hardened right attitudes among the working classes. You can't call me a racist for this opinion, just look at the increasing numbers on Stormfront, and the way that posts on boards.ie are going. I don't need to tell you that I'm not racist, but it feels like I need to respond pre-emptively in any debate on immigration. It's an easy but tired rebuke that stops any kind of sensible debate from taking place, and is the reason that our Government has not taken proactive measures on this important issue.

I could go on, but in short...comparing my previous post to Hitler and Stalin is ludicrous. Such a knee-jerk reaction.

turgon

In fairness those who have strong opinons on immigration are going to go out of their way to post, and those who dont have strong convictions just arent going to bother. So when your reading an immigration thread it would seem, yes, that cart loads of people are anti it.

@af_thefragile: I realize where your coming from, its just from my own personal experience my parents didnt prepare me in any way for sex, instead just staying quite or preaching abstinence when ever I got a girlfriend. So when it came to it, I had no clue what I was doing and I continued to stay in the dark for a long long time. And at least I had the sense to use a condom, I dont know how many kids dont. Do you see how parents can intentionally mislead there kids?

Iwasfrozen

I agree with markesmith, we need to cut down on immigration though. truth be there are too many non - nationals claiming on the Dole and not contributing to the State.
@af_thefragile: How about we calm down on the immediate critisism of anything that isn't Archo-Capitalism, huh ?

markesmith

af_thefragile, you seem an intelligent fellow with some interesting opinions. But back to the OP's question - obviously, we'd need to know what the party was.

Any party that can rein in free-market capitalism, so that society does not have to endure the cycle of boom/bust, would be well-received, I think. A party that allows business to flourish, while at the same time regulating heavily the use of money to manipulate markets. Hedge funds, stock speculation, over-excited property development, etc.

Our economy is expected to contract by over 9% this year, much more than other Western economies. They're comparing Ireland's to the worst contraction by a Western economy since the early '30s.

In many countries across Europe, left-wing parties are being voted in. But in Ireland, we don't really have a viable left alternative.

I think that, in place of another party to dilute the effectiveness of the proportional representation system, we should look to improve and modernise the Labour Party.

turgon

markesmith wrote: »

Any party that can rein in free-market capitalism, so that society does not have to endure the cycle of boom/bust, would be well-received, I think.

Thats what every single party in the Dail is preaching to do.

And as to no viable left wing alternative - what do you call the Labour party?

markesmith

turgon wrote: »

And as to no viable left wing alternative - what do you call the Labour party?

I just don't think Gilmore is doing a great job at promoting the party. They really should be out there, getting themselves across. Now is a good opportunity for Labour - people are disillusioned with Fianna Fail, and a lot of us think Fine Gael aren't going to represent any huge change in policy. Both are essentially centre-right Christian Democrat parties. It's time Labour pushed itself seriously as an alternative.

So, unlike in the UK, Labour is not exactly a viable alternative, i.e. if they do get in Government they'll pay the price of power - minority party in a coalition Government.

As an aside, I've noticed that there's a bit of a tendency to jump on remarks in this forum. You really have to watch what you're saying. What's all that about? I'd say it keeps a lot of people from contributing.

turgon

markesmith wrote: »

So, unlike in the UK, Labour is not exactly a viable alternative, i.e. if they do get in Government they'll pay the price of power - minority party in a coalition Government.

Yeah but the alternative is to start a new Left Wing party, and they will certainly by even more of a minority than Labour. There is always Sinn Fein...

markesmith wrote: »

As an aside, I've noticed that there's a bit of a tendency to jump on remarks in this forum. You really have to watch what you're saying. What's all that about? I'd say it keeps a lot of people from contributing.

Internet, Serious Business

But sorry if I "jump" on your remarks

af_thefragile

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

@af_thefragile: How about we calm down on the immediate critisism of anything that isn't Archo-Capitalism, huh ?

Apologies... i guess i was a little too hasty to jump to that!


When i first posted my manifesto in this thread, i was still a very left wing socialist.
But since then i've changed and realised a libertarian free market state is the perfect state. I believe in power to the people not a handful of elite.

Both right and the left only have one objective. More power to the bureaucrats. They just have different ways of achieving it but thats what they do over time. Pass on regulations to restrict people's liberty and freedom over time.




Anyway, the best way to solve (not fight) the problem of growing number of immigrants and the pressure thats putting on the economy is to cut out the incentives for them to come in the first place. There is no need to be overly generous at one end to give all sorts of refugees and immigrants social and welfare security while on the other hand beat them with a big stick with immigration laws and such. The only thing this will do is make it harder for the genuine qualified immigrants who are contributing to the Irish society legally and fairly.

Now i really don't think immigrants can claim any social and welfare benefits here, the non EU immigrants don't get anything from the government. They're just here mostly as students (contributing to the economy by paying college fees) or working odd jobs, which i think its the fault of the Irish who are too lazy to work odd jobs, its much more easier for employers to hire immigrant workers who are much more willing to take up the job and work much harder.


Forget left and right, a libertarian party is the one that will solve all problems by letting the people decide for themselves what they want. This will fix the economy, create more local businesses creating more jobs, attract more foreign businesses bringing more revenue to the country and creating more jobs. Socialism will not fix this economic crisis.

All the top economists (who aren't government propaganda economists) are saying the same thing. Bailing out businesses, pumping more money (created out of thin air) into the economy is only gonna create more debt and inflate the economic bubble more. The government is fighting hard to control bank interest rates and inflation. But all this will do is prepare the market for another bigger collapse and is gonna make sure this depression drags on for another 5-10 years. The only way to fix the economy is to just leave it. The market will fix itself and sure you'll have one bad year but then things will get back right. Here's the choice, you could either let the market fix itself by having one bad year where you reduce spending, let some businesses fail and go bankrupt, face a hard time. Or you could keep fighting this recession by more government sanctions and regulations and make sure this goes on for another decade till we have completely exhausted all of our reserves and finally realise, yup, its time to change.


I'm gonna be signing off this site, so this is probably gonna be my last post.
I've said all i had to say. I follow people like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Lew Rockwell so if you wanna know what's the way we need to progress to ensure freedom and liberty for everyone, i'll say go listen to them and see what they've gotta say about it. They're a few handful of people who have got it right. Peter Schiff was ridiculed back in 2006-2007 when the economies were doing great and he predicted this recession around the corner. Peter Schiff is still being ridiculed today when he's criticising the Obama administration's plans of saving the economy and predicting the dollar to collapse soon. Logic and previous patters tell us thats exactly where we are heading. Towards a total economic collapse and unless we change our ways, its gonna be inevitable. You don't need to dream or work for a socialist state cuz we're heading right in that direction. But its not the kind of socialism Marx dreamed of.

A libertarian state would solve most of the crisis of the modern day western world. But no one likes to give away their hard earned power back to the people!

Thats it from me!

markesmith

af_thefragile wrote: »

I'm gonna be signing off this site, so this is probably gonna be my last post.

Something I said, af_thefragile? I hope not

Some really good points in your last post. But I think we can't really be black and white about how we'll get out of this. Libertarian policies would work very well in that we'd probably have less of a tax requirement.

Schiff predicted the coming downturn, but in fairness a lot of people did. Now he's talking about stocking up on guns and ammo to survive the coming apocalypse. Rockwell is not terribly different from that (e.g. "10 Core Values of Survivalism"). Ron Paul advocates the US leaving everything (UN, NATO, etc).

The Libertarian viewpoint that you espouse would, in my view, erode any remaining sense of community in this country. It would perpetuate the whole "me fein" attitude that's been so prevalent in Irish society in the last 20 years. You political viewpoint is, essentially, every man for him/herself.

I can see where you're coming from with it, it might suit the US, but it's just not something I'm into at all.

Driseog

I know its sounds cliche and totally unrealistic but a completely fresh organisation is needed and everything about the current system needs to be totally transformed.
The whole political, business, banking set up is rotten to the core and its so bad the people in there can't even see it. Its rotten on the left and the right. I think there is as much cronyism among the unions as there is among the bankers.
Its just embedded in our culture even though that doesn't mean we shouldn't do something about it. I think we as a nation are going to be forced to radically change the way we do business because I've a very bad feeling the IMF are going to be called in before the end of the year to take us over.
The government at the moment is behaving like the banks did 10 months ago, telling us that "we're ok and we'll get through it". The politicians aren't in touch with reality anymore, the worst is only around the corner. Maybe in the long term it'll be a good thing if it means we change the way we run the country in the future. Sorry bout the rant.

Scofflaw

turgon wrote: »

In fairness those who have strong opinons on immigration are going to go out of their way to post, and those who dont have strong convictions just arent going to bother. So when your reading an immigration thread it would seem, yes, that cart loads of people are anti it.

Indeed, those who feel strongly the other way don't bother posting, because there simply isn't any point. I don't think anyone has ever been persuaded out of disliking immigration.

cordially,
Scofflaw

edanto

industrialhorse wrote: »

YO!

calling together any system analysts, web designers/developers, programmers, musicians and allsorts to bring their views into the mix and see what we can come up with?? whos interested???

Hey - what happened to you?! One post and out?! That's not really encouraging for the rest of us that might want to join you!

Seriously - all you'd need to get together would be another hundred people according to Smithy's post and we could all join it. Of course we'd need at least a basic idea of what we have in common and might be campaigning on and how it might be better than/different to other parties.

I'll join in, but I don't have much time at the moment so I could only come to a few meetings. You set it up, we'll get a few heads there!

Iwasfrozen

Seriously - all you'd need to get together would be another hundred people according to Smithy's post and we could all join it. Of course we'd need at least a basic idea of what we have in common and might be campaigning on and how it might be better than/different to other parties.

Before you even think of joining a party its wise to at least know what that party stands for.
To be honest I think this was a prank, the op didn't even post his prospective parties ideology/stance on issues.

edanto

Ah of course yeah.

Also, I reckon the OP was just someone who felt strongly about one particular issue and then maybe thought of an idea to improve the political system and couldn't see a way to implement that through political parties that are out there at the moment.

It's such an incredible amount of work to help out on even one small issue - like if the desire took you, it would be possible to spend 30h a week campaigning on environmental issues and still have very little success influencing government policies. I think politics is harder work than it looks!

AngryHippie

Unless you know how to play the game and who to talk to and/or have something to offer thats why the systemis pretty much fcuked

turgon

edanto wrote: »

Hey - what happened to you?! One post and out?! That's not really encouraging for the rest of us that might want to join you!

The developers got to him already

Belfast

KeyLimePie wrote: »

the first manifesto is very liberal and the second is conservative..

They both seem too radical for Ireland in the present climate.

For any radical change to be made the people need to shown the flaws of the present system is not confined to the government but to all the political parties in the Dail., all their polices are more or less the same ( variations on a theme)


Better Idea that a political party is a Think Thank.

It can analyse what the political parties are doing and the flaws.
It can look at the law already passed and those about to be pasted and show their flaws
The media should do this but does not.

The Think Tanks should be able to analyze issue from a
Marxist,
Libertarian,
Anarchist
etc
points of view.

The idea is not to favour any one point of view, but to show up the lack of ideas and poor quality of the present parties.

This hopefully will get people think for themselves and force the present political parties to adopt new ideas or be consigned to the dust bin of history.
if this happen and the present parties are discredited then new parties could be formed with some chance of success.