Kenny to lead?

paul larry

Would Enda Kenny do any better a job than Brian Cowen?

Agent Smith

Well, Do you think he could do much worse?
First time i saw cowen had any balls was when he stood up to the unions of the public sector and pressed ahead.


the fact that by doing so, he's going to get bitten in the ass is another thing altogether

Raiser

Kenny couldn't lead a sing-song

- He deserves a fair share of the overall blame for offering the Irish people no alternative, I wish he would fcuk off to Brussels or Bahrain or, well anywhere else really.....

Liam Byrne

Would have said yes until I saw the article in The Examiner last week.

I'll still stand over the opinion that he couldn't do any worse, but he wouldn't be much better if he thinks he should leave TD pensions, double-pay and expenses untouched, and the dismissive arrogance with which he said "It's always been that way" and "what do you want us to do ? give it back ?" reflects VERY badly on him.

Eamonn Gilmore for Taoiseach! OR let's get Pat Rabitte back!!!

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

OR let's get Pat Rabitte back!!!

Damn straight..

yoshytoshy

I'm all for the rabitte in a hat approach ,he seems the most honest these days.

thebigcheese22

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm all for the rabitte in a hat approach ,he seems the most honest these days.

Is Gilmore not honest? Thats news to me!

I think Kenny will never be Taoiseach material coz hes too tepid - all he inspires is boredom...

And if hes only on 30% approval rating when we have arguably the worst government in history, well,that speaks volumes IMO

murfie

Ok most of you say Gilmore for Taoiseach, is this because of Labours policies or is it an American Idol, popularity contest, who has the strongest personality.
Making Labour the controlling party in the government is a scary thought. I will say not a scary as leaving FF in there but i would think a FG and Labour may be the best with FG taking the main party.

VO

murfie wrote: »

Ok most of you say Gilmore for Taoiseach, is this because of Labours policies or is it an American Idol, popularity contest, who has the strongest personality.
Making Labour the controlling party in the government is a scary thought. I will say not a scary as leaving FF in there but i would think a FG and Labour may be the best with FG taking the main party.

Gilmore as Taoiseach no way - He would follow a red agenda , Nationalise our banks, Improve the health service, reduce taxes for the poor, screw up the free market economy we have fought valiantly for, he would probably even look to reduce the salaries of the fat cats in the civil service and the public sector. He might even start to punish the likes of seanie fitzpatrick & his cronies.

No way I am all for the status quo leave Biffo in there to lead us out of this mess after all he created it so he has moreknowledge of it then any other politician

thebigcheese22

VO wrote: »

Gilmore as Taoiseach no way - He would follow a red agenda , Nationalise our banks, Improve the health service, reduce taxes for the poor, screw up the free market economy we have fought valiantly for, he would probably even look to reduce the salaries of the fat cats in the civil service and the public sector. He might even start to punish the likes of seanie fitzpatrick & his cronies.

No way I am all for the status quo leave Biffo in there to lead us out of this mess after all he created it so he has moreknowledge of it then any other politician

Hehe nice! your sarcasm is withering sir, good job!

ProperDeadly

Enda Kenny leading the country would be a disaster!!
He has absolutely no charisma, and two and a half years as Minister For Tourism and Trade over ten years ago is hardly enough experience for the job!!

Brian Cowen should be left where he is, unless any other party can come up with viable solutions to our problems, instead of just criticising the current government.

yoshytoshy

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

Is Gilmore not honest? Thats news to me!

I'm not dyslexic or anything ,just got gilmore and gormley names mixed up.
Thought the green guy was merely a joke as leader and saying that I think rabbite is not a bad option.

Whatever we do ,we must make sure that theres no bickering eejits in government next time round. Slap the face off the current ministers and wake them all up.

thebigcheese22

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm not dyslexic or anything ,just got gilmore and gormley names mixed up.
Thought the green guy was merely a joke as leader and saying that I think rabbite is not a bad option.

Whatever we do ,we must make sure that theres no bickering eejits in government next time round. Slap the face off the current ministers and wake them all up.

Yeah I'd agree with that. The problem with Rabbite is that he put it out to the electorate that we would have been Fine Gael's whipping boy in an alternative Government, and thats the reason we didn't do great in 2007.
I totally agree with Gilmore's strategy - play it cool and don't make any rash decisions. His motto speaks for itself: We are not Fianna Fail or Fine Gael - We are Labour

And regarding Gormley and Gilmore - they are at completely opposite ends of the credibility spectrum!

bmaxi

Kenny may well be Taoiseach in the future but he will never be a leader. I've listened to him speaking on many occasions and he just doesn't have what it takes. It's all very well to have good scriptwriters writing your speeches and trawling around for witticisms and barbed comments to put your point across but unless you are capable of injecting passion and emphasis at the right point, you might as well be a bored teenager at the back of the church, reciting the umpteenth decade of the rosary. The country needs leadership and Kenny, no matter how capable he may be, does not have the credibility to fit the bill.

irish_bob

bmaxi wrote: »

Kenny may well be Taoiseach in the future but he will never be a leader. I've listened to him speaking on many occasions and he just doesn't have what it takes. It's all very well to have good scriptwriters writing your speeches and trawling around for witticisms and barbed comments to put your point across but unless you are capable of injecting passion and emphasis at the right point, you might as well be a bored teenager at the back of the church, reciting the umpteenth decade of the rosary. The country needs leadership and Kenny, no matter how capable he may be, does not have the credibility to fit the bill.

i agree with this , that fine gael are ahead in the polls is down to the state the country is in and that the present goverment is worse than terrible

the problem with replacing kenny is there is not all that much talent in fine gael , richard bruton while an impressive and clearly intelligent speaker on issues doesnt come across as leadership material either , the only one i can think of who inspires confidence is leo varadakar but the man would have very little broad appeal in a country that rates likability so high , he is far too snooty in demeanor to ever be electable as taoiseach

dorothygale

bmaxi wrote: »

Kenny may well be Taoiseach in the future but he will never be a leader. I've listened to him speaking on many occasions and he just doesn't have what it takes. It's all very well to have good scriptwriters writing your speeches and trawling around for witticisms and barbed comments to put your point across but unless you are capable of injecting passion and emphasis at the right point, you might as well be a bored teenager at the back of the church, reciting the umpteenth decade of the rosary. The country needs leadership and Kenny, no matter how capable he may be, does not have the credibility to fit the bill.

Sure if you want charisma bring back Bertie!

Erin Go Brath

paul larry wrote: »

Would Enda Kenny do any better a job than Brian Cowen?

Enda Kenny doesn't inspire much confidence tbh. I really don't think the man would in any way be a solution to our problems. Bruton may be a better shout, certainly hes a more likeable and charismatic person who could inspire confidence.

CtrlSource

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Enda Kenny doesn't inspire much confidence tbh. I really don't think the man would in any way be a solution to our problems. Bruton may be a better shout, certainly hes a more likeable and charismatic person who could inspire confidence.

Don't know if Bruton the younger is all that much better, but he certainly appears to posses more leadership qualities.

My preference (by a considerable margin) would be for Shatter to become FG party leader

Daroxtar

Kenny last night on the news said he was looking forward to leading the largest party in the dail in the next government. i didnt hear him say taoiseach. did anyone else pick up on this or am i mistaken? has he realised people dont like him and is willing to let gilmore lead?

bmaxi

dorothygale wrote: »

Sure if you want charisma bring back Bertie!

Charisma, obviously, is subjective. If you equate charisma with sleevenism then Ahern had it in bucketloads. Previous posters who have been close to Kenny say he does not lack charisma, merely can't project it. I'm prepared to accept that but what is needed today is an inspirational leader and Enda, sadly for him, will never be that.
FG seem to have a knack of electing insipid leaders, the last leader of any real substance IMO, was Alan Dukes and they fell over themselves to get rid of him.

nesf

bmaxi wrote: »

Charisma, obviously, is subjective. If you equate charisma with sleevenism then Ahern had it in bucketloads.

What does sleevinism mean? Have never seen it before.

bmaxi wrote: »

FG seem to have a knack of electing insipid leaders, the last leader of any real substance IMO, was Alan Dukes and they fell over themselves to get rid of him.

+1

Alan Dukes is a man who I have a lot respect for. He brings class and intelligence to any debate I've seen him in.

bmaxi

nesf wrote: »

What does sleevinism mean? Have never seen it before.

I missed out on an e. A sleeveen is Irish slang, it means someone who is, at face value, plausible but is, in reality, sly, underhand, untrustworthy etc.

Dannyboy83

I don't care who comes in.

First, we need to get Fianna FAIL out of office

Second, we need to get somebody qualified and competent in.
If we can't do it from the current dead weight, we need to restructure the system.

Ardent

bmaxi wrote: »

Kenny may well be Taoiseach in the future but he will never be a leader. I've listened to him speaking on many occasions and he just doesn't have what it takes. It's all very well to have good scriptwriters writing your speeches and trawling around for witticisms and barbed comments to put your point across but unless you are capable of injecting passion and emphasis at the right point, you might as well be a bored teenager at the back of the church, reciting the umpteenth decade of the rosary. The country needs leadership and Kenny, no matter how capable he may be, does not have the credibility to fit the bill.

I will never understand why the sheeple in this country become fixated on the individual rather than the party. American Idol sums it up perfectly. No wonder the country is f*cked.

yoshytoshy

Ardent wrote: »

I will never understand why the sheeple in this country become fixated on the individual rather than the party. American Idol sums it up perfectly. No wonder the country is f*cked.

When I vote,it will be because of who I want to see working in the Dail.
There isn't anything wrong with that. I never see any of the local politicians ,that doesn't mean they're not doing their job.

iseethelight

i think the army should use its tank and plane and stage a coup

Sand

Its not a popularity contest - Bertie was apparently charismatic but one could hardly consider his government to be a success...

Kenny might be the most wooden, unlikeable git but if he is capable of taking on the golden circle in Ireland [ both in the banks and the public service/semi state bodies], establishing even the concept of proper regulation of the financial industry plus demanding accountability and at the same time getting our economy back to a more competitive footing which will mean taking on the service providers like the ESB and the various unions then who cares if he cant tell a joke properly?

This countrys political and economic system needs a revolution from top to bottom. Any government that does it is not going to be popular by the time theyre done no matter how popular they are going in.

Gilmore is more charismatic - but we need someone who can take on the unions, because like any group of spoilt children, they wont like discipline. And Labour cant be trusted with representing the Irish taxpayer in those discussions, given they tend to believe they exist to represent the unions themselves.

Its unlikely FG will have enough seats to get into power without Labour, but Labour need to be kept away from the driving seat. Its Kenny and FG or bust.

Sand

When I vote,it will be because of who I want to see working in the Dail.
There isn't anything wrong with that.

Yes, there is. TDs have to follow the party line. Hence their party and its manifesto are more important than the individual in question...

nesf

iseethelight wrote: »

i think the army should use its tank and plane and stage a coup

We have a tank now?

yoshytoshy

Sand wrote: »

Its unlikely FG will have enough seats to get into power without Labour, but Labour need to be kept away from the driving seat. Its Kenny and FG or bust.

Always considered enda kenny to be a rural politician ,making more resources available for Ireland ,as oppose to Dublin (would I be right about this ?)

iseethelight

nesf wrote: »

We have a tank now?

ah no don,tell me don't even have a tank?
maybe we could borrow one from germany perhaps-sure they have loads

yoshytoshy

Sand wrote: »

Yes, there is. TDs have to follow the party line. Hence their party and its manifesto are more important than the individual in question...

I'm inclined to not take policies too seriously before elections ,thats the upper hand they all play and it doesn't wash with me.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I'm inclined to not take policies too seriously before elections ,thats the upper hand they all play and it doesn't wash with me.

You're better off trying to work out where their loyalties lie. For instance with Gilmore, it's very hard to see him facing down the unions, especially the public ones. Same as it's hard to see FF at the moment throwing the builders to the mob, though I can see them throwing the bank officials to them (i.e. look at the proposed granting of powers to an Oireachtas committee with respect to this).

yoshytoshy

nesf wrote: »

You're better off trying to work out where their loyalties lie. For instance with Gilmore, it's very hard to see him facing down the unions, especially the public ones.

I will do my best to suss out whats what ,it would be nice for both labour and fine gael to interact with the unions themselves ,before any of the pre-elections.

Given the extreme circumstances ,it would provide some food for thought for voters.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I will do my best to suss out whats what ,it would be nice for both labour and fine gael to interact with the unions themselves ,before any of the pre-elections.

That's the eternal problem with the opposition in our kind of system, you don't get any real idea of what they'll be like until you vote them in. It both works for them, you can be everything to everybody when you don't actually have to implement policy and it can work against them because often when faced with uncertainty people fear the unknown (i.e. the last election had a lot of this going on).

yoshytoshy

nesf wrote: »

That's the eternal problem with the opposition in our kind of system, you don't get any real idea of what they'll be like until you vote them in.

A bit like eircom broadband so ,nothing changes in this country:)

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

A bit like eircom broadband so ,nothing changes in this country:)

Apologies for editing my posts so much by the way, I've a bad habit of hitting submit and then remembering something I wanted to say.

deadhead13

Kenny is all bluff and bluster. Just can't imagine him as taiseoch. But then again, I'm still having difficulty envisaging Brian Cowen as one.

yoshytoshy

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

Cowen inherited a mess, both as Finance Minister and as Taoiseach. The problem is while he did do some sensible things like run surpluses (which I might add he got some criticism from Labour for doing if I recall correctly) he did not manage (it's unclear where he personally stood on the issue imho) the tax cuts that fuelled some of the building going on in the later years of the boom. For that he'll get no sympathy from broad swathes of the public and members of this forum.

The one I've the closest thing to sympathy for at the moment is Brian Lenihan. A Senior Counsel being suddenly thrust into the Ministry of Finance with no background in anything but law academically and then having the economy implode before he even had much of a chance to find his feet. His political reputation will be in tatters if he ****s up but really he's way out of his depth here, though I have been impressed that he grasped some of the nuances of the difference in our bad debt problem versus that effecting other EU states in that long interview he gave about the bank recapitalisation. It's the kind of thing that politicians with no background in an area often don't manage to do when working "off script".

ttilting

It's always popular to be 'anti government' . . . . but people should do it in a focussed way.....

Politics is very important , , . . . but still so many idiots in Ireland continue to vote based on STUPID ideas and preconceptions that they have.

Some people vote FF because there parents do , ,

Some people vote LAB/ FG / SF etc .... because the local TD drinks in the same pub as them . . . . . . . . . .

EVERY citizen has a moral obligation to orientate themselves about politics, it annoys me that there are huge swathes of people that have no idea what the difference between Left Wing & Right Wing are, and have no idea where they consider themselves on the ''spectrum''.

Ignorant LAZY! voters are the reason we now have a government in with such a low approval rating . .

After careful informed consideration (I am Left Of Centre) ,,,,I vote Labour , , , But I keep an eye on all of their polices to ensure they still match up to my beliefs.

But no matter who you vote for ! . . .

Dont do it because your Daddy always voted for them!

Dont do it based on a couple of extra euro in your pocket every month !

For gods sake do it because the candidate/party you are voting for represents your what you believe will help to improve society for ALL ... equally.

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for the countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

K-9

ttilting wrote: »

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for te countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

Indeed.

Agreed.

The Lisbon Treaty is an example of were the vote should be taken away.

We need a politics IQ Test.

ttilting

K-9 wrote: »

Indeed.

Agreed.

The Lisbon Treaty is an example of were the vote should be taken away.

We need a politics IQ Test.

Well an I. Q test is one thing ! ! ! ... Probably a little too strong, as a low IQ should not detract from your right to have your say on how the world works!..but you should be able to comprehend how the world(/society) works. knowing how he world works means a lot more than passing synical comments about politicians from time to time.

But I would be in favor of some sort of 1 day course that EVERYONE applying to be on the voting register must attend.

The course content must be un bias - and while there would be no test ..... you would have to provide a certificate of attendeance,,
,,,OR. . . . Controversially. . . . .

NO VOTE ! ! !

We are now seeing the importance of political decisions . . . . . . I wouldn't want an unqualified pilot to fly my plane ..... so why should I accept an unqualified person to vote on the direction of society.

The content of the course could be argued back and fourth until it was agreed upon. .

NON attendance. . . NO VOTE . . . .

K-9

ttilting wrote: »

Well an I. Q test is one thing ! ! ! ... Probably a little too strong, as a low IQ should not detract from your right to have your say on how the world works!..but you should be able to comprehend haw the world(/society) works. knowing how he world works means a lot more than passing synical comments about politicians from time to time.

But I would be in favor of some sort of 1 day course that EVERYONE applying to be on the voting register must attend.

The course content must be un bias - and while there would be no test ..... you would have to provide a certificate of attendeance,,
,,,OR. . . . Controversially. . . . .

NO VOTE ! ! !

We are now seeing the importance of political decisions . . . . . . I wouldn't want an unqualified pilot to fly my plane ..... so why should I accept an unqualified person to vote on the direction of society.

The content of the course could be argued back and fourth until it was agreed upon. .

NON attendance. . . NO VOTE . . . .

Good idea.

To vote it would take time and it would have to cost a days pay.

yoshytoshy

The whole world has made mistakes in the last decade ,from bush to bertie.

It would be a pretty sh1tty world ,if everything was laid out in front of you.

Daroxtar

ttilting wrote: »

It's always popular to be 'anti government' . . . . but people should do it in a focussed way.....

Politics is very important , , . . . but still so many idiots in Ireland continue to vote based on STUPID ideas and preconceptions that they have.

Some people vote FF because there parents do , ,

Some people vote LAB/ FG / SF etc .... because the local TD drinks in the same pub as them . . . . . . . . . .

EVERY citizen has a moral obligation to orientate themselves about politics, it annoys me that there are huge swathes of people that have no idea what the difference between Left Wing & Right Wing are, and have no idea where they consider themselves on the ''spectrum''.

Ignorant LAZY! voters are the reason we now have a government in with such a low approval rating . .

After careful informed consideration (I am Left Of Centre) ,,,,I vote Labour , , , But I keep an eye on all of their polices to ensure they still match up to my beliefs.

But no matter who you vote for ! . . .

Dont do it because your Daddy always voted for them!

Dont do it based on a couple of extra euro in your pocket every month !

For gods sake do it because the candidate/party you are voting for represents your what you believe will help to improve society for ALL ... equally.

Or just totally ignore this post . . and continue to winge and blame politicians for the countries problems.

Democracy only works when people accept the importance of their decision.

Would it not be better for rte to comission a show for sunday evenings live from the helix where the politicians can come up with great stories of what they're capable of and have a panel of judges, maybe a seoige and amanda brunker and duncan stewart and twink and louis walsh and brendan o connor to pass judgement on the great ideas, then maybe get them to do their party pieces and at the end we could text our votes in(calls from mobiles may cost more) ? People might show more interest that way and we'd get the politicians we really think would be capable of telling the best stories:):)

ttilting

Daroxtar wrote: »

Would it not be better for rte to comission a show for sunday evenings live from the helix where the politicians can come up with great stories of what they're capable of and have a panel of judges, maybe a seoige and amanda brunker and duncan stewart and twink and louis walsh and brendan o connor to pass judgement on the great ideas, then maybe get them to do their party pieces and at the end we could text our votes in(calls from mobiles may cost more) ? People might show more interest that way and we'd get the politicians we really think would be capable of telling the best stories:):)

If anyone needs that type of program to spark their interest in how society is run . . . They obviously have no idea of the complexity of running a country......

X Factor is not a bad show,,,,,,

but politics is seriously important , , , (as we will all see 6 months from now when the riots.shortages begin) , , , , ,

Lazily Neglect it. . . and we end up . . . . well..... where we are now!

jmayo

nesf wrote: »

What does sleevinism mean? Have never seen it before.

nesf, you are a mod on politics forum and you don't know what a sleeveen (sleevin ??) means ?
An utter disgrace

nesf wrote: »

We have a tank now?

Well we have baby tanks with smaller guns.
They do move faster though

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Always considered enda kenny to be a rural politician ,making more resources available for Ireland ,as oppose to Dublin (would I be right about this ?)

As opposed to bertie who just made sure de northsoide was looked after.
Metro, Dublin airport Authority, Aer Lingus, the new national childrens hospital in a place with no infrastructural access :rolleyes:

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Really feel sorry for brian cowen these days ,it just seems like too much for him though.
I don't even blame bertie ahern for the problems ,I blame charlie mcreevey for the gambles he made years ago.

Do people remember when the SSIA's where brought out ? ,it was after mcreevey gave us tax cuts.
He was called in by the eu and magically came up with the savings scheme. In my eyes that was the start of the trouble.

Boll****.
Clowen was in charge when he could have stopped Section 23, 50s etc, when he could have stopped specualtors and investors from pushing up property prices and thus everything else in the country.
McCreevey is an easy scapegoat now.

When did he leave and was Clowen not in charge for the worse of the years 2004-2007 when the steam should have been taken out of the market ?
When did 100% mor5tgages come in and who was minister of finance ?

PS he is paid more then Gordon Brown or Barrack Obama so shag him, it's about time he and the others earned their fat salaries and even fatter expenses.