Single coil hum and recording guitar...

Dord

I hope this is the best place for my question, haven't posted here before.

I'm trying to record some tracks (just myself) and the 50hz hum from my guitar is starting to annoy me a bit. It's got a P90 singlecoil, so no humbuckers here and I don't want it to have one as I like the tone.

Any recommendations on how I can deal with this? Any good VST effects for removing hum?

ogy

x-noise from waves does that.

not sure if a single coil hum is 50hz, thats usually electrical hum, like a ground loop, dunno if single coil is the same frequency, could be wrong though!

those plug-ins work by presuming that "Hum" is a triangle wave and so EQ out 50hz, 150hz, 250hz at gradually decreasing levels, so unless its a fixup job on an old recording, or some material that definitely can't be rerecorded or whatever, id try to stay away from them. you don't want that effect to have to be on every track you record.

If the guitar/pickup/leads and amp are definitely in optimal nick and its just the normal amount of hum then it shouldn't be enough of a problem to warrant using a plugin every time you record.

Maybe try using a gate to silence the guitar track on gaps in the track, or even just maually fade in and out and silence those sections. a dynamics processor is much less destructive to your sound than an EQ and should preserve your tone. This way the hum will only be there when the guitar is playing and so shouldn't be noticeable. will obviously increase noise floor but this is acceptable i think, p90s have been around alot longer than waves plug-ins:)

Also maybe get the wiring in your guitar shielded if your sure the level of hum is unacceptable.

Dord

ogy wrote: »

x-noise from waves does that.

not sure if a single coil hum is 50hz, thats usually electrical hum, like a ground loop, dunno if single coil is the same frequency, could be wrong though!

those plug-ins work by presuming that "Hum" is a triangle wave and so EQ out 50hz, 150hz, 250hz at gradually decreasing levels, so unless its a fixup job on an old recording, or some material that definitely can't be rerecorded or whatever, id try to stay away from them. you don't want that effect to have to be on every track you record.

If the guitar/pickup/leads and amp are definitely in optimal nick and its just the normal amount of hum then it shouldn't be enough of a problem to warrant using a plugin every time you record.

Maybe try using a gate to silence the guitar track on gaps in the track, or even just maually fade in and out and silence those sections. a dynamics processor is much less destructive to your sound than an EQ and should preserve your tone. This way the hum will only be there when the guitar is playing and so shouldn't be noticeable. will obviously increase noise floor but this is acceptable i think, p90s have been around alot longer than waves plug-ins:)

Also maybe get the wiring in your guitar shielded if your sure the level of hum is unacceptable.

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought about using a gate on it, I'll check that out.

I used one of those filtering plugins last night testing it out, and it sounded "ok" but when I turned it off the tone was much better. So basically it was squeezing the life out of it.

I think I'll try using a gate to deal with hum in the quiet parts and shield the guitar.

dav nagle

Lower your tone to 5 on your guitar

Dord

dav nagle wrote: »

Lower your tone to 5 on your guitar

That reduces it a bit but it makes the guitar sound very dark, not exactly what I want for the song.

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Lower your tone to 5 on your guitar

Dav, you know I love - you but that's a daft suggestion ....:rolleyes:

Iomega Man

Just as a matter of interest,what are you recording into?
Have you a CRT monitor?

PaulBrewer

Iomega Man wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest,what are you recording into?
Have you a CRT monitor?

good thinking

dav nagle

Buy a decimator pedal or lower the tone on the guitar and beef up the treble on your amp to make up.

I read somewhere recently that lining the inside of the guitar (around the back of the pickups) with a few layers of aluminum foil sorts this out..probably grief if you're already half way through a track, but you wouldn't have to worry about it again..

ogy

Buy a decimator pedal or lower the tone on the guitar and beef up the treble on your amp to make up

decimator pedal will suck tone just like the plug-in. trying to balance the tone between guitar and amp sounds a bit mad to me, if the hum is there your just gonna be turning it down at one stage and turning it back up at another.

if its really affecting the quality of the recording then the guitar/pickup/jack lead/amplifier are in need of a service/replacement, or maybe its interference as the lads have suggested. maybe tell us how your recording the guitar, DI/pod/mic'd?

Your not gonna get total silence with a p90 but i think a normal amount of hum shouldn't aversely affect the recording, especially if you gate the silent bits as suggested

dav nagle

I have a telecaster and the single coils can hum from time to time. The Les paul has no hum at all. Buying high quality picks ups should certainly eliminate all hum. Guitars sold off the shelf tend to have bad pick ups in my opinion.

PaulBrewer

Deleted User wrote: »

I read somewhere recently that lining the inside of the guitar (around the back of the pickups) with a few layers of aluminum foil sorts this out..probably grief if you're already half way through a track, but you wouldn't have to worry about it again..

There's a sticky copper tape that I've fitted all my guitars with that when earthed through the guitar cable does act as a shield. I found it on EBay.

Also find the position that picks up the least interference, obvious, but well worth the wander around the room.

Lastly, humming and squawking can be part of the overall buzz.
Often editing out the pre-hum and fade can be enough to make it work.

Dord

Iomega Man wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest,what are you recording into?
Have you a CRT monitor?

I'm recording direct into an E-MU 1616 via cardbus. I'm using a laptop with an LCD screen.

ogy wrote: »

decimator pedal will suck tone just like the plug-in. trying to balance the tone between guitar and amp sounds a bit mad to me, if the hum is there your just gonna be turning it down at one stage and turning it back up at another.

if its really affecting the quality of the recording then the guitar/pickup/jack lead/amplifier are in need of a service/replacement, or maybe its interference as the lads have suggested. maybe tell us how your recording the guitar, DI/pod/mic'd?

Your not gonna get total silence with a p90 but i think a normal amount of hum shouldn't aversely affect the recording, especially if you gate the silent bits as suggested

There is a LOT of hum with the P90. It's an old 80's Gibson LP Jr. I think I might have some of the copper shielding tape at home, I'm gonna try using that.

PaulBrewer

Dord wrote: »

I'm recording direct into an E-MU 1616 via cardbus. I'm using a laptop with an LCD screen.



There is a LOT of hum with the P90. It's an old 80's Gibson LP Jr. I think I might have some of the copper shielding tape at home, I'm gonna try using that.

I have a Bareknuckle P90 rewind in my Epiphone Casino and a Tele with Custom Shop 57's in. Both give no problem in the studio.

ogy

maybe obvious but have you tried a decent quality, brand new jack lead? also make sure the inputs are set to Hi-Z, not microphone level. does it hum if you just plug it into an amp?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

1/ check if you have any dimmer switches / heaters etc in the room and get rid of them.
2/ get an LCD monitor
3/ use a noise gate for the over all track .
4/ tie a bit of copper wire round your wrist and tuck it into the bridge on the guitar.

ogy

4/ tie a bit of copper wire round your wrist and tuck it into the bridge on the guitar.

5/ Get electrocuted and the hum will be the least of your worries.

I know its only about as dangerous as lifting the earth off a plug, but surely this isn't good advice!

webbwbb

A good way of completely removing that without losing any audio quality is to download a trial of Adobe soundbooth. There is a noise reduction tool on it. You highlight part of the file (a few seconds) that does not have any playing on it, just noise. Then click the button that says "Get noise signature". After doing that, click the noise reduction button. This uses the noise signature to know what you consider to be noise and then adds an out of phase copy to it. This has been one of my best friends in getting rid of noise on all of my tracks.

PaulBrewer

ogy wrote: »

5/ Get electrocuted and the hum will be the least of your worries.

I know its only about as dangerous as lifting the earth off a plug, but surely this isn't good advice!

No, Da Dums adivice is all good.
By actively earthing yourself you become a shield. You already earth yourself via strings and bridge anyway but it will avoid the breaks in between contact.

It's no more dangerous than touching the guitar itself.

madtheory

1. Try disconnecting the power supply from the laptop- these almost always have poor, weird, or no grounding, and are a prime source of the problem described.

2. Check the input impedance of the Emu. It should be at least 1M ohm for guitar work. If it isn't, buy a DI. You'll get a great inexpensive one here:

http://www.naiant.com

It's built in to the XLR, so you can use a very short patch lead into it, and a long mic cable. Very clean, brilliant

ogy wrote: »

5/ Get electrocuted and the hum will be the least of your worries.

I know its only about as dangerous as lifting the earth off a plug, but surely this isn't good advice!

And lifting the earth on the plug is totally different and very dangerous. Tying yourself to the guitar makes you part of the signal ground, not the earth ground.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

And lifting the earth on the plug is totally different and very dangerous.

Yep.

PaulBrewer

There's a terrific article in this month's Resolution Magazine about killing guitar hum by John Watkinson.

It basically the same info as is recommended for studio wiring namely star earthing i.e. each earthable bit goes back a central earth through it's own route - parallel as opposed to serial.

I'd never thought of that before.

In fact Resolution is on fire this month with loads of fascinating articles written by lads who know shyt.

You DO get Resolution of course?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

ogy wrote: »

5/ Get electrocuted and the hum will be the least of your worries.

I know its only about as dangerous as lifting the earth off a plug, but surely this isn't good advice!

err ,
the term "electric guitar" dont mean the guitar is actually electrically live as per 220 volts .
;)

TelePaul

dav nagle wrote: »

I have a telecaster and the single coils can hum from time to time. The Les paul has no hum at all.

Apples and pears mate!

dav nagle wrote: »

Buying high quality picks ups should certainly eliminate all hum. Guitars sold off the shelf tend to have bad pick ups in my opinion.

Nonsense! The 'best' single coil, hand-carfted by the 'best' tech, installed by the 'best' luthier is still gonna give off a certain amount of hum. Tis the nature of the beast!

Gotta love the out-of-phase middle position ya get with reverse wound pups.

Seziertisch

TelePaul wrote: »

Apples and pears mate!



Nonsense! The 'best' single coil, hand-carfted by the 'best' tech, installed by the 'best' luthier is still gonna give off a certain amount of hum. Tis the nature of the beast!

Gotta love the out-of-phase middle position ya get with reverse wound pups.

Its a P-90. It is going to hum no matter what you do. I have a dummy coil installed in a P-90 equipped guitar and while it sorts the hum it sounds fuller/better without it. With the dummy coil engaged it sounds more like a strat or telecaster pickup. Just live with it, I say. Try finding a position to sit in where it hums less. De-noising plug-ins can work ok (at least TC Denoise does). Although I would say that once you are playing/recording and you have your levels up it shouldn't be that noticabale unless you are going for some very clean sounds, in which case the out of phase middle position should sort it.

Outside of a proper studio situation this is just one of those things, a lot of electrical fields in domestice situations. Where I am living, if the guys in the flat downstairs turn on their light there is an immediate increase in hum. I hear them coming in, I hear the door unlocking and then bam.

I know that Kinman pickups are coming out with a noiseless P-90. I have played their strat and tele pups and found them authentically single coil, maybe not 100% like a single coil but defintely 97% or so. Very minimal difference, plus they sound great. The noiseless P-90 should also be pretty rocking.

madtheory

PaulBrewer wrote: »

John Watkinson.

He's brilliant at explaining electronics for audio. Philip Newell is another contributor, great writer on acoustics. As is Ethan Winer.

PaulBrewer

madtheory wrote: »

He's brilliant at explaining electronics for audio. Philip Newell is another contributor, great writer on acoustics. As is Ethan Winer.

Ole Watkinson gets to the point ok. Got a mail from Newell today, meeting him in Barcelona before Easter!