[US/IRL] 5X05 - "This Place is Death" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "THIS PLACE IS DEATH" -

Episode Title: "This Place is Death"
Airdate: Feb 11th 2009

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Locke takes on the burden to stop the island's increasingly violent shifts through time. Meanwhile, Ben hits a roadblock in his attempt to reunite the Oceanic 6 and bring them back to the island

Next New Episode: 5X06 - Feb 18 - 2009

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SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

ABC (US) - Feb 11th 2009
RTÉ (IRL) - Feb 15th 2009

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

Basq

Mucho gracias SP..

.. came here to do just this!

Wreck

6

Was loving the episode until Christian popped up to spoil it. Is he dead or what? Cause if he is dead and he is a ghost that's pretty much bull****.

Anyway, Jin has been one of my favourite characters since the first season, and the opening few scenes with him were class. The stuff with smokie and the temple was interesting, and Rousseau's last scene was class. Charlotte having been on the island before is no surprise, but dunno what the story with her mother telling her that she imagined it all. Off island confirmation that Hawking is Faraday's mother and almost certainly Ellie.

Handsome Bob

6

Another solid episode. Great acting from Terry, he perfectly got across the rejection Locke felt when told that he was the one who had to move the island originally, and contrary to what Ben told him, that he was not the leader of the others.

Great when Desmond turned up, the bemused look on Ben's face when Des said "you're here looking for Faraday's mother too?" was just priceless.:D

doonothing

7

Great episode! Every week feels like the penultimate of the series, the pacing is fantastic
Roll on next week

PullMyFinger!

7

Excellent episode.

8/10

More thoughts later!

Sad Professor

6

Easily the best episode of the season so far. Lots to think about and things definitely are starting to come together.

However I'm still not comfortable with the time flashes. While they are a convenient way for the writers to tell the back-story of the island, they still feel like a contrived plot-device. I miss the old character-driven flashback structure. The show is almost entirely plot-driven now which makes for a very fast-paced 40 minutes but is at odds with the show I used to love. The show is still very good but it's not the same show anymore. It has more in common with Quantum Leap or Sliders now than the Lost of season 1. But hopefully we'll see a return to that next season.

anotherlostie

8

I really enjoyed this, apart from thinking that they treated Charlotte's death pretty shabbily. I read that she was off to make a film so maybe the powers that be weren't happy that they wouldn't get to explore the character as they wished. Very intrigued by the statement that Faraday had warned her never to come back; this must tie into the opening scene where he was down in the Orchid with Chang, and makes me wonder if he intervenes in some future temporal shift with a young version of Charlotte.

The first half of the episode was breathtaking. It was like they decided to get their money's worth from Jin who sat out the first three eps. Nice to see Smokey, and a very tight story telling Rousseau's tale. Interesting that Smokey can engage in mind control.

Off island was better than usual, but all leading up to that scene outside the church. Desmond's face when he saw Eloise was a picture; I hope he was reacting to memory of her rather than the fact that Faraday named a rat after his mother! I am surprised they are going to proceed without Kate, Hurley, Aaron, Sayid and Frank, and thought it was farcical that Sun decided to give up seeing her baby for potentially forever just to see Jin again.

Christian Shepherd's appearance was well done, and we come closer to Jack discovering that his Dad is on the island. I wanted to see where Locke turned up and how he coped with it (Ben was uber organised with passports behind rocks and names in hotels, facts that Locke cannot be aware of).

Jay Ru

7

anotherlostie wrote: »

I really enjoyed this, apart from thinking that they treated Charlotte's death pretty shabbily. I read that she was off to make a film so maybe the powers that be weren't happy that they wouldn't get to explore the character as they wished. Very intrigued by the statement that Faraday had warned her never to come back; this must tie into the opening scene where he was down in the Orchid with Chang, and makes me wonder if he intervenes in some future temporal shift with a young version of Charlotte.

now that Locke put the wheel back on its axis wud that not stop the time shifts? it seems to me that the turning of the wheel represents the flow of time on the island maybe. the wheel wasn't moving before ben pushed it, hence richard not getting any older and so on. before locke put the wheel back it was moving backwards in spurts, to a different position each time, just like the time shifts on the island!

abelard

6

I wonder if Charlotte will just be dropped from here on? As in, they had established a few interesting questions about her - who her parents were, growing up on the island etc. - and it would be hard to just leave them now. I guess maybe any more information about her will have to be presented in an earler time with a younger actress. As mentioned above, I thought her death scene was anticlimactic, and would have been nicer to kill her off with a "final scene of the episode" at least.

For some reason, I got a great laugh of out Jin, when he was talking to Danielle and she asks something like "What are you looking for?", and he says "my wife", but in a really bizarre accent, so that it sounds like "mah waahffe". Did Danielle ever encounter Jin between the crash of Oceanic 815 and Ben turning the wheel? Now that we have an idea what became of the French crew, the next question is what happened down in the Temple when they went after the monster?

I don't believe for a second that it will only be Jack, Ben, Sun and Desmond that will travel back to the island. I'm not sure how they'll do it, but I imagine Kate, Aaron, Sayid and Hurley will come back into the fray in the next episode.

anotherlostie

8

I was also struck by how the flashes must have caused a huge improvement in Jin's spoken English. He still had a Korean accent but his ability to converse with Rousseau was impressive!

In relation to the wheel, I don't think the flashes will stop until Locke gets the others back to the island, but I guess we'll see next week. Faraday's jaunt down the Orchid hasn't been shown yet.

Sad Professor

6

abelard wrote: »

Did Danielle ever encounter Jin between the crash of Oceanic 815 and Ben turning the wheel?

Afaik there was never any direct interaction but he was in her presence on a couple of occasions. Why didn't she notice him? She was kinda crazy and had a few memory problems anyway. Although I'm not sure this episode captured that craziness as effectively as it could have. I'm sure we'll see her again though.

I'm kinda pissed off at them for killing Charlotte. She deserved a proper flashback. Seeing her as a young child in a future time shift isn't enough.

lostexpectation

need a poll: would you hold on, or let go earlier?

poor locks legs

how are they going to get the others back, are they just going to decide to turn up?

what about sun and jins baby?

Psychedelic

9

loved this episode. answers finally revealed about rousseau's team, the things charlotte said, confirmation that ms hawking is daniel's mother, desmond seeing her at the end, locke meeting christian and turning the wheel. so much great stuff going on in this episode.

Niall0

9

So i guess christian is Jacob? how does that work , is jacob just using his image/body or is jacob actually christian shepard.

Leprachaun

Desmond must have been well confused when he saw Mrs. Hawking in the church. :pac:

pkumohideeile

7

Sad Professor wrote: »

Why didn't she notice him?

The only reason I can see so far is on comparing it with Desmonds dream that wasn't a dream but a memory. It wasn't until after Farraday talked to him at the hatch that the memory was 'there' for Desmond to access- if you know what i mean.

This episode was great. More please. Did anyone think Jins accent was particularly crap for a second? - 'but i must find my camp because helicopter....'. His word 'because' was crap. Bad Jin actor! Probably flew in for the day to shoot and then fecked off to LA.

I think too that they should throw in a few more flash backs for the road.

qz

9

That episode was unbelieveable, one of those episodes that just hits home why you fell in love with the show in the first place. Not talking about the flashback/time trave elements, but moreso the tension and the reveals that keep you dying for more.

First 10/10 of the season. Super. Roll on next week.

thecommander

6

Can anyone confirm if Danielle had met Jin in previous seasons. Seems to be he was always away from camp when she was around.

jor el

7

thecommander wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if Danielle had met Jin in previous seasons.

Does it matter? It was 20 years ago, and Danielle was a looper.

Quality episode, though some of the off island stuff was lame, again. Is Locke going to end up in the desert now, I wonder?

The Don

8

thecommander wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if Danielle had met Jin in previous seasons. Seems to be he was always away from camp when she was around.

Only checked a few episodes. Danielle and Jin were on the beach with everyone in season 3 episodes 21 and 22. Haven't checked the other episodes with her in it. So she would have probably seen him. Especially as Jin was one of the guys to remain and defend the beach. But Jol El is right, all those years on the island have made her a looper.

Anyway, it was an excellent episode. Really liked Danielle's back story. Its going to be interesting to see what Desmond says to Eloise. She has something planned that she can do with them that will get the others to agree to go back with them.

Did anyone else notice the carvings on the wall of the temple that the Smoke Monster was defending? They looked like Egyptian hieroglyphic to me (not and expert).

thecommander

6

The Don wrote: »

Did anyone else notice the carvings on the wall of the temple that the Smoke Monster was defending? They looked like Egyptian hieroglyphic to me (not and expert).

Some were the same as the glyphs when the hatch clock got to zero, also the same as the boarding passes on the airline site (someone else found that)

Tristram

5

Danielle aint such a looper that you wouldnt expect her to remember someone who shared a pretty traumatic event with her ffs. Not like she her social life has been so hectic in the meantime that all the faces just blend together.

Also: Could Mathew Fox not have taken some fecking acting classes in between Party of 5, Lost and Vantage Point? Talk about annoyingly limited capabilities.

cooker3

Well that was action packed.

First of. I could sense Charlotte was going to die when she start telling Daniel her life story without reservation. Why would she not tell anyone else before that she lived on the island as a child? I don't really get why they killed her off. I feel kind of short changed with her story arc. What was the point of her being in the show at all. It feels a bit Libby like. There must have been a bigger role which got cut short for whatever reason?

I liked Rousseau scenes but thought they could have showed more. So the sickness was monster related then and nothing to do with the barrier surrounding the island?

Good to learn more about smokey. We know his main purpose and where he stays. All that's left is how it was created and by who. When was the temple built? Is that the same temple that the others were in during season 4 when we didn't see them?

I wonder will they show Lockes meetings with the Oceanic 6 and Ben being shown in the next few episodes and will the flashes be stopped on the island?

Anyway good episode but not happy with everything that happened.

doonothing

7

How cool would it be if when Danielle had first happened upon the losties she like, looked at Jin with a bit of recognition, then snapped out of it, just something tiny like that that we could go back and find and be in awe at the coolness of it

Bit too much to ask for them to be writing so many years in advance for a wee tiny detail though! I like the way they're keeping in with the random connections between people, only now it's happening throughout TIIIIiiiimmmeee...

Nothingcompares

I'm waiting on the Sad_Professor to confirm or deny recognition on Rousseau's part in the past. He is, as far as I am concerned, keeper of the lost canon.

Sad Professor

6

Nothingcompares wrote: »

I'm waiting on the Sad_Professor to confirm or deny recognition on Rousseau's part in the past. He is, as far as I am concerned, keeper of the lost canon.

Hehe, am I that bad?

As I said earlier, Jin and Rousseau never had any direct interaction that I can recall. I mean the only time he was probably ever even in her presence was during Exodus Part 1 in season 1, Greatest Hits/Through the Looking Glass in season 3 and the first episode of season 4. So if anyone wants to go and re-watch those episodes and see if she shows any recognition.

But like doonothing said, there's no way the writers had something like this planned back in season 1. Instead this is just a case of them doing their homework and knowing that Jin never interacted with her. Up until at least early season 4 the writers were still planning to do a Rousseau flashback. I reckon they only came up with this time-shifting business after 4x08.

cooker3

Just gone through the Rousseau scenes. She is at the beach in Exodus 1. She addresses the group although Jin isn't there. She also walks by the raft when Jin is on it but you don't see that properly.

In greatest hits she addresses the group again, Jin is there and she must see him but there is no obvious nod or sign of recognition. Same story in the beginning of the end. She should see him but nothing is clear so I assume they hadn't thought this one that far back.

doonothing

7

Sad Professor wrote: »

Hehe, am I that bad?

As I said earlier, Jin and Rousseau never had any direct interaction that I can recall. I mean the only time he was probably ever even in her presence was during Exodus Part 1 in season 1, Greatest Hits/Through the Looking Glass in season 3 and the first episode of season 4. So if anyone wants to go and re-watch those episodes and see if she shows any recognition.

But like doonothing said, there's no way the writers had something like this planned back in season 1. Instead this is just a case of them doing their homework and knowing that Jin never interacted with her. Up until at least early season 4 the writers were still planning to do a Rousseau flashback. I reckon they only came up with this time-shifting business after 4x08.

Haha, what are you like

pkumohideeile wrote: »

The only reason I can see so far is on comparing it with Desmonds dream that wasn't a dream but a memory. It wasn't until after Farraday talked to him at the hatch that the memory was 'there' for Desmond to access- if you know what i mean.

I reckon that's it... Unfortunately, Danielle isn't in a fit state at the present to "remember"

Mellor

5

A reaction from Des upon seeing Hawking would of been nice

pickarooney

6

Sad Professor wrote: »

Easily the best episode of the season so far. Lots to think about and things definitely are starting to come together.

However I'm still not comfortable with the time flashes. While they are a convenient way for the writers to tell the back-story of the island, they still feel like a contrived plot-device. I miss the old character-driven flashback structure. The show is almost entirely plot-driven now which makes for a very fast-paced 40 minutes but is at odds with the show I used to love. The show is still very good but it's not the same show anymore. It has more in common with Quantum Leap or Sliders now than the Lost of season 1. But hopefully we'll see a return to that next season.

My sentiments exactly, from it being the best episode so far to the lack of character-building and the Quantum-Leapy flash overkill. I've just about managed to put the irritation of the flashes aside and am enjoying the faster pace, even though I was always a fan of the slow build-up of previous years, probably because we now have a definitive end date.

doonothing

7

I agree, that was one of my favourite things about Lost, the crescendo of tension and then *whooooosh* then someone's eating a sandwich Made for some great contrasts! But, we'll always have three full series' of character based action, if they are gone for good, and I'd always choose this excitement over the (arguably 5-8?) filler episodes which spoiled previous series'...

All this action has a very penultimate-series air about it, doesn't it!

jimbling

8

Another fantastic episode.

pkumohideeile wrote: »

The only reason I can see so far is on comparing it with Desmonds dream that wasn't a dream but a memory. It wasn't until after Farraday talked to him at the hatch that the memory was 'there' for Desmond to access- if you know what i mean.

doonothing wrote: »

I reckon that's it... Unfortunately, Danielle isn't in a fit state at the present to "remember"

Don't think that's correct... my understanding is that the reason Farraday could alter Des's future, i.e. bring forth a "memory", is because he was special. This should not happen for Danielle.
It's basically that she forgot about him.

Tristram wrote: »

Danielle aint such a looper that you wouldnt expect her to remember someone who shared a pretty traumatic event with her ffs. Not like she her social life has been so hectic in the meantime that all the faces just blend together.

That's not exactly fair though is it. I'm sure the whole scene was a bit traumatic, no doubt, but the island isn't exactly a haven of normality. Some dude disappearing isn't that shocking when you have black smoke monsters and polor bears chasing you every second day :pac: :pac:

thecommander

6

jimbling wrote: »

Don't think that's correct... my understanding is that the reason Farraday could alter Des's future, i.e. bring forth a "memory", is because he was special. This should not happen for Danielle.
It's basically that she forgot about him.

The memory was always there, he only remembered it then. The reason why it seems that they happened together is because we the viewer saw it that way.

abelard

6

Tristram wrote: »

Danielle aint such a looper that you wouldnt expect her to remember someone who shared a pretty traumatic event with her ffs. Not like she her social life has been so hectic in the meantime that all the faces just blend together.

Hell I wouldn't blame her for forgetting someone. After 16 years in the jungle on her own she was doing well not to be talking to a volleyball.

Nalz

8

good episode but my head still hurts with this time travel.

Would the older present Rosseau (in seasons 2 and 3) have not recognised Jin because she met him in the past (cas of time travel in this season)? Or should I even ask??:)

PirateShampoo

8

Niall0 wrote: »

So i guess christian is Jacob? how does that work , is jacob just using his image/body or is jacob actually christian shepard.

Christian has already stated to Lock that he wasnt Jacob when they first meet in the Cabin.

Im starting to think Jacob might actually be Lock.

Also Rosseau has been on the Island for 16 years alone, when they first see her in the presant she is pretty mental so im pretty convinced she wouldnt reconize Jin.

Sherifu

7

Locke's leg is done in pretty bad. If he is 'transported' to the desert then he'd be well fooked.

And did he turn the wheel in the opposite direction to Ben. Will the island flashes stop now?

And mrs. Hawking wants to get started, I really wanted to see what she meant.

pkumohideeile

7

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Im starting to think Jacob might actually be Lock.

abelard is wrong, and Jacob is a volleyball

Or what are the chances that Carlton Cuse or Damon Lindleoff will make a cameo as Jacob? For all their pompous answers in interviews it would seem they are grooming us for this. Which one would make a better Jacob?

Does anyone just get sick of that guy who introduces the podcasts?! I hope he gets a cameo and they kill him with a flaming arrow.

PirateShampoo

8

Well Empire Magizine revealed that

Jack returns to the island this session

lynchpin

7

Loved this episode but I think some of the "huge reveals" this season have been very predictable.
For example, no one would have been shocked to see Mrs Hawkings at the end of last night's episode.
The episode would have been much stronger if it focused on Charlotte's death at the end of the episode along with her revelation
about Faraday telling her as a child not to return to the island.

Quick question/theory about the wheel and the flashes, if the flashes now stop because of Locke turning the wheel,
do you think that they are now stuck in period of time when the Dharma Initiative was created (Season 5 Episode 1)? Or will there be more flashes?

Tristram

5

is that excuse wagon i hear winding its way down the shore :pac:

Psychedelic

9

Sherifu wrote: »

And did he turn the wheel in the opposite direction to Ben.

no, he turned it in the same direction as ben. it's just that locke pulled the wheel, whereas ben pushed it.

jimbling

8

thecommander wrote: »

The memory was always there, he only remembered it then. The reason why it seems that they happened together is because we the viewer saw it that way.

Nope, have to say I think you're wrong about that.

homerun_homer

7

lynchpin wrote: »

Quick question/theory about the wheel and the flashes, if the flashes now stop because of Locke turning the wheel,
do you think that they are now stuck in period of time when the Dharma Initiative was created (Season 5 Episode 1)? Or will there be more flashes?

I think the flashes will stop now that the wheel is put back on it's axis. The Sky 1 show with Ian Lee has already spoiled that

by episode 10 the O6 are back on the island and being welcomed by Dharma, which has Sawyer and co in Dharma jumpsuits. So it looks like they will land back in time, the 70s or something.

Can't wait to see how it pans out.

PirateShampoo

8

homerun_homer wrote: »

I think the flashes will stop now that the wheel is put back on it's axis. The Sky 1 show with Ian Lee has already spoiled that

by episode 10 the O6 are back on the island and being welcomed by Dharma, which has Sawyer and co in Dharma jumpsuits. So it looks like they will land back in time, the 70s or something.

Can't wait to see how it pans out.

Well it would fit in with Charlot seeing Faraday has a child and him warning her not to return to the island has she will die. It will also fit in with the Faraday flash back of him being in the wheel room.

They are probably trying to blend in with Dharma so there real identitys dont get discovered.

Tragamin2k2

6

Typical lost moment, off island build up,

Ellie: "Lets get started"

LOST

AGGHH :mad::mad::mad:

cooker3

I think people don't watch 24 on this forum
There has been many points during that show where half way through a season the plot line they have been working on ends suddenly and you are like eh so what happens next. It really doesn't make you that excited about watching it anymore and there has been a few seasons when you pretty much wished it ended much earlier at that point.

Point is stop complaining about questions and cliffhangers. It 's 1 of the reasons the show is so compelling.

conor052001

Mellor wrote: »

A reaction from Des upon seeing Hawking would of been nice

when did he meet her before?

Basq

conor052001 wrote: »

when did he meet her before?

She was the jeweller when he was looking for a ring for Penny....

PirateShampoo

8

basquille wrote: »

She was the jeweller when he was looking for a ring for Penny....

Aye when he was time traveling mentally.