Italy Vs Ireland. KO 2.30GMT.Stadio Flaminio.(pre/during/post thread)

Rattlehead_ie

Italy Vs Ireland
Kick off 2.30 (Irish Time)
Venue Stadio Flaminio, Rome.
Referee: Chris White (England)
Touch Judges: Nigel Owens (Wales), Romain Poite (France)
Television Match Official: Graham Hughes (England)

Irish XV:
15 - Robert Kearney (UCD - Leinster)
14 - Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
13 - Brian O'Driscoll (UCD - Leinster) (capt)
12 - Paddy Wallace (Ballymena - Ulster)
11 - Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College - Leinster)
10 - Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution - Munster)
9 - Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin - Munster)

1 - Marcus Horan (Shannon - Munster)
2 - Jerry Flannery (Shannon - Munster)
3 - John Hayes (Bruff- Munster)
4 - Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution - Munster)
5 - Paul O'Connell (Young Munster - Munster)
6 - Stephen Ferris (Dungannon - Ulster)
7 - David Wallace (Garryowen - Munster)
8 - Jamie Heaslip (Naas - Leinster)

Irish Bench:
Rory Best (Banbridge - Ulster), Tom Court (Malone - Ulster), Malcolm O'Kelly (St. Mary's College - Leinster), Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution - Munster), Peter Stringer (Shannon - Munster), Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne - Leinster), Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

Italian XV:


Italian Bench:

Right so, seeing as Irish team is named at lunch time today might as well get this started. So pick your starting 15 if you wish, discuss etc.
I'm hoping Ireland can continue their performance as seen in french game and put a few extra points on the board against Italy, its teams like this that you should put to the sword, although they can also be banana peels. (Im more afraid of Scotland that way).

Italy did not perform well against England last week especially with Bergamasco playing at number 9, with that error rectified Italy are still a danger at the front 8. They have always been a big physical side and could do some damage to our forwards.

Surprised not to see Earls in this seeing as he is fit.

juvenal

Italy v Ireland
Sunday 15 February 2009 2.30pm (Irish)
Stadio Flaminio, Rome
Live on RTÉ2, RTÉ.ie, RTÉ Radio 1; BBC1, BBC Radio 5 Live

Italy|No.|Ireland
Andrea Masi|15|Robert Kearney
Kaine Robertson|14|Tommy Bowe
Gonzalo Canale|13|Brian O'Driscoll
Mirco Bergamasco|12|Paddy Wallace
Matteo Pratichetti|11|Luke Fitzgerald
Luke McLean|10|Ronan O'Gara
Paul Griffen|9|Tomas O'Leary
Salvatore Perugini|1|Marcus Horan
Fabio Ongaro|2|Jerry Flannery
Martin Castrogiovanni|3|John Hayes
Santiago Dellape|4|Donncha O'Callaghan
Tommaso Reato|5|Paul O'Connell
Alessandro Zanni|6|Stephen Ferris
Mauro Bergamasco|7|David Wallace
Sergio Parisse|8|Jamie Heaslip

Italy Replacements: Carlo Festuccia, Carlos Nieto, Carlo Antonio Del Fava, Josh Sole, Giulio Toniolatti, Gonzalo Garcia, Andrea Bacchetti.

Ireland Replacements: Rory Best, Tom Court, Malcolm O'Kelly, Denis Leamy, Peter Stringer, Gordon D'Arcy, Geordan Murphy.

Referee: Chris White (England)
Assistant Referees: Nigel Owens (Wales), Romain Poite (France)

ven0m

Same team as last week, but O'Leary & his box kicks are NOT what is needed. We need URGENCY at the base of our scrum, not step-pass, or step-box kick.

Our problem last week was the pingpong rugby crap, cos when we actually moved a ball through running, rucking etc, we looked world class, & our tries came from that kind of play.

When we reverted to that kick to give the ball away & defend crap we looked like a special needs class of team. We looked AFRAID to play rugby against France when we did that, but when we ran, & moved the ball around from runs, good solid forward play we had them **** themselves!

Less of the ping pong crap this week, & we'll be dandy.

molloyjh

ven0m wrote: »

Same team as last week, but O'Leary & his box kicks are NOT what is needed. We need URGENCY at the base of our scrum, not step-pass, or step-box kick.

Our problem last week was the pingpong rugby crap, cos when we actually moved a ball through running, rucking etc, we looked world class, & our tries came from that kind of play.

When we reverted to that kick to give the ball away & defend crap we looked like a special needs class of team. We looked AFRAID to play rugby against France when we did that, but when we ran, & moved the ball around from runs, good solid forward play we had them **** themselves!

Less of the ping pong crap this week, & we'll be dandy.

Didn't Kidney pretty much say the same thing in one of the post match interviews on Sat?

chupacabra

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

Surprised not to see Earls in this seeing as he is fit.

He may get on the A team for the game against scotland on friday, if just to get him up to match speed for the rest of the tournament.

ven0m

molloyjh wrote: »

Didn't Kidney pretty much say the same thing in one of the post match interviews on Sat?

Dunno, was too busy trying to escape the mass exodus from Hill16 after the game

Spore

Can't really complain with the same starting 15, but would have liked to see a couple big guns rested / coming off the bench like O Gara, Heaslip & Flannery, just to keep the reserves sharp

MikeHoncho

Not surprised and think its the right call. Also wouldnt be surprised if we DO kick over the top on Sunday as Italy offer no threat of a counter attack.

Zzippy

No surprises there, glad to see Wallace retain his place, D'Arcy hasn't enough rugby under his belt to deserve the start but is a great impact sub to have coming off the bench.

Could be a lot of penalties in this game, both with the way Italy play and an overly fussy referee, won't be the free flowing game we had last weekend :rolleyes:

Noopti

Glad Kidney stuck to the same team, to have replaced Wallace with D'Arcy would have been an unfair decision.
Hopefully Wallace will get the chance to show his form in this game.

juvenal

Not sure exactly when the Italian team announcement is, but I'll wait until then before I spout my opinions!

Rattlehead_ie

chupacabra wrote: »

He may get on the A team for the game against scotland on friday, if just to get him up to match speed for the rest of the tournament.

You are probably right but would like to see him on the bench for England defo is he passes wit no issues from A game.

On another note. MODs any chance we can get this and the other topic merged when you can please.Use whatever original post u want.

Erin Go Brath

That team worked well for us last week. It it aint broke don't fix it.

chupacabra

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

You are probably right but would like to see him on the bench for England defo is he passes wit no issues from A game.

On another note. MODs any chance we can get this and the other topic merged when you can please.Use whatever original post u want.

Just saw the team sheet for the A game, no Earls, he must still be carrying an injury then.

Crash

Rattlehead_ie wrote: »

You are probably right but would like to see him on the bench for England defo is he passes wit no issues from A game.

On another note. MODs any chance we can get this and the other topic merged when you can please.Use whatever original post u want.

Merged. Was originally gonna use Juvenals OP, because well, it looks pretty :P but then discovered that if I soft-deleted your post, the entire thread disappeared. VBB all the way.

Rattlehead_ie

Going Waterforward wrote: »

because well, it looks pretty :P

Oh I see its like that is it :-p Since when was anything bout rugby pretty :-p
Thanks WF

juvenal

Cheers rattlehead for starting it, didn't even see this thread earlier - I was too busy formatting the three match threads for the weekend, and waiting for the team announcement on irishrugby.ie!

A healthy balance of style and substance here, just like (hopefully) the Irish performances for the rest of the tournament!:D

Mallett will announce his starting XV tomorrow (Thursday), as he's waiting on fitness reports on Marco Bortolami, who has a knee problem, and flyhalf Andrea Marcato.

Noopti

Pretty logos and tables are a must!

Edit: Just saw who the assistant ref is, Nigel Owens. Hopefully he won't give anything our way or we will have the "Nigel O'Wens" brigade spring forth once more!

NickNolte

The logo and table are a touch of class. Love it.

I thought Earls was fit?

barnesd

Earls is fit, he's been left out.

No problems with that team, we won and played pretty well so no need to change. Looking forward to the weekend, the Italian backs are not the best so if we have a real go at them out wide we might find some joy.

thebaz

I know they say don't change a winning team, but I disagree with a few here, and would have D'Arcy in for Wallace

barnesd

thebaz wrote: »

I know they say don't change a winning team, but I disagree with a few here, and would have D'Arcy in for Wallace

I'd love to see D'Arcy in but even by his own admission he's still not 100% match fit. Hopefully he'll play for Leinster next weekend in the centre (DK should get on to Cheika/Leinster/the IRFU and make it happen), then look at bringing him in for Scotland. It would be somewhat unfair on Wallace anyway, he had to play with a massive gash in his face against France and had his game interrupted badly getting stitched up. Give him another chance, it won't cost us anything imo.

ALH-06

barnesd wrote: »

No problems with that team, we won and played pretty well so no need to change.

This attitude is right for winning a 6N, but wrong for long-term development.

That was such a great win last Saturday, but looking at it, I think France came away with more than Ireland did, in the long-term at least. Come RWC11 they'll have a large tried and tested young squad with the likes of Beauxis and Para etc all having been given the opportunity (game-time at the highest level) to develop into world class players.

Meanwhile, in order to win 6Ns matches, we'll be left with an aging ROG, BOD etc, with the potential of younger generations not having been fully developed.

Don't mean to spoil the atmosphere - I'm actually really excited about this tournament - but looking at what France have been doing since RWC07 would make you worry for Ireland in the future...

ALH-06

Sorry that was pretty off-topic actually...

Podge_irl

ALH-06 wrote: »

Don't mean to spoil the atmosphere - I'm actually really excited about this tournament - but looking at what France have been doing since RWC07 would make you worry for Ireland in the future...

No it doesn't.

Christ I hate the RWC.

Stev_o

Chris White will decide who wins this game, it's going to be a huge test for the pack and alot gotta guys need to follow on from last week and step up yet again against what will be a giant Italian pack. We win the contact area we win the game simple as. But i dont expect the winning margin to be much, what was the score last year 16-11 or something??? It ll be close!

vorbis

Lads the next world cup is in over 2 years time and realistically Ireland won't win it. Not being defeatist but it'd be some shock if we did. I'm a bit sick of people going on an on about "building" for the world cup. I'd take a 6N win any day over getting to the semifinals of the world cup.

Young players should come into the squad when they're better than the incumbents. In fairness to Kidney, I have faith in him to do this (Kearney, Wallace, Ferris, Heaslip and O'Leary have all replaced established players)

barnesd

Agree with some of the above, can't stand the way people think we should be geared towards the RWC. I want Ireland to win the 6N. Right now I couldn't give a fup about what's going to happen in 2 1/2 years.

ALH-06

barnesd wrote: »

Agree with some of the above, can't stand the way people think we should be geared towards the RWC. I want Ireland to win the 6N. Right now I couldn't give a fup about what's going to happen in 2 1/2 years.

Ok forget RWC - what about 6N 2011 then? It doesn't matter which tournament you prefer - planning for the future is planning for the future. It's as necessary to a national side as immediate success. I think France have a good balance, but all I'm saying is I'm not so sure Ireland do.

England didn't plan properly and look at them - they've been pure shi*te for nearly six years. Imagine that happened in Ireland - interest in rugby wouldn't last long with the fairweather supporters we have!

remus808

MikeHoncho wrote: »

Not surprised and think its the right call. Also wouldnt be surprised if we DO kick over the top on Sunday as Italy offer no threat of a counter attack.

Have to say I disagree. Italy aren't exactly blessed with gifted individuals, but both Bergamascos and Parisse are world-class strike runners.

Podge_irl

England have been ****e because they've had a successionn of poor coaches/managers/DORs/whatever the **** they want to call them. They also lack quality players in a number of key positions. They have actually regularly put out young up-and-coming players in an effort to blood them and most have never been heard from again. England aren't ****ed because of bad planning, they just aren't very good at the moment - it happens.

Of the 22 that will start against Italy, Best if 24/25, POC is 29, Heaslip is 24, Ferris is 23, Fitz is 21/22, Kearney is 22/23, Bowe is 24. Not that ridiculous an age profile. The younger players - so Ferris/Fitz/Heaslip/Kearney have worked their way into the squad because they've earned it. They're better or as good as the players they replaced. More players will emerge over the years - teams are best when they change organically.

Moreover, we are one year away from going the most tournaments ever without a championship. I'd like to see Ireland ****ing winning one.

conf101

Christ on a bike, all this bloody talk of preparing for RWC 2011!! It's important to have an eye on the future and be preparing for it, fair enough, but Ireland have gone a seriously long spell without winning the 6 Nations and I think that should be our main focus right now. In order to do that we need to be putting out our strongest team in every game, none of this taking Italy for granted or anything that kind of mentality isn't what wins Grand Slams, and that's what DK is obviously doing so fair play to him.

Right now winning a the 6N should be our priority. If we had a few championships behind us then maybe we could be focusing on RWC but we don't so we need to do everything we can to win the 6N.

Back on topic. The team put in a great performance last week and I think they have all justified their inclusion this week. I reckon D'Arcy will come on at some stage again, he's probably not ready for a full match yet though.

corny

Was delighted when Kidney named that side last week and i'm delighted he's named the same side this week. Paddy Wallace deserves more than half a game to impress so i think he should be first choice for the entire 6N. There'd be worse impact subs that G Darcy too.

The Italians will be difficult to play against alright but they're just not good enough to score more than 15 points or so. Ireland will score more than that and win handy enough on the scoreboard.

toomevara

conf101 wrote: »

Christ on a bike, all this bloody talk of preparing for RWC 2011!!

Anyhoo, the way things are going, by 2011,we'll all be living in cardboard boxes scrabbling about in a terminator-esque style, post-apocalyptic landscape, beating each other to death for scraps of bony gristle...And rugby will be a dim distant memory of the "far-away happy times..."

ozt9vdujny3srf

players with real promise get blooded at provincial level and Ireland A level. THere is no reason to pick anything other then your best 15 for the international side.

MikeHoncho

vorbis wrote: »

Lads the next world cup is in over 2 years time and realistically Ireland won't win it. Not being defeatist but it'd be some shock if we did. I'm a bit sick of people going on an on about "building" for the world cup. I'd take a 6N win any day over getting to the semifinals of the world cup.

Young players should come into the squad when they're better than the incumbents. In fairness to Kidney, I have faith in him to do this (Kearney, Wallace, Ferris, Heaslip and O'Leary have all replaced established players)

+1

barnesd

ALH-06 wrote: »

Ok forget RWC - what about 6N 2011 then? It doesn't matter which tournament you prefer - planning for the future is planning for the future. It's as necessary to a national side as immediate success. I think France have a good balance, but all I'm saying is I'm not so sure Ireland do.

England didn't plan properly and look at them - they've been pure shi*te for nearly six years. Imagine that happened in Ireland - interest in rugby wouldn't last long with the fairweather supporters we have!

Kearney, Fitz, Bowe, TOL, D'Arcy, R. Best, POC, DOC, Flannery, Heaslip, Ferris all have a few years of rugby left in them and will probably all be there or there abouts in 2011. Then there's the likes of N. Best, Ryan, Caldwell, Cronin, Healy, Sean O'Brien, Toner, Humphreys, Frank Murphy etc, many of whom could be playing for Ireland in the not too distant future. There are a few positions we're struggling, mainly tighthead. We're nowhere near the England situation. Keep in mind though, they won a few 6Ns, a grand slam and the RWC while we've won nothing.

Cuchulain

ALH-06 wrote: »

Ok forget RWC - what about 6N 2011 then? It doesn't matter which tournament you prefer - planning for the future is planning for the future. It's as necessary to a national side as immediate success. I think France have a good balance, but all I'm saying is I'm not so sure Ireland do.

England didn't plan properly and look at them - they've been pure shi*te for nearly six years. Imagine that happened in Ireland - interest in rugby wouldn't last long with the fairweather supporters we have!

I also couldnt care much about the 6N 2011, first thing is to get a Grand Slam/Championship under our belts. There are plenty of talented youngsters just waiting to get into the team Earls, Ronan, Healy etc etc. Our focus has to be 6N 2009.

Noopti

Isn't this thread supposed to be about the upcoming Italy versus Ireland game?

barnesd

15 Andrea MASI (Biarritz Olympique, 45 caps)
14 Kaine ROBERTSON (MPS Viadana, 36 caps)
13 Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont-Auvergne, 43 caps)
12 Mirco BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 57 caps)
11 Matteo PRATICHETTI (Cammi Calvisano, 13 caps)
10 Luke MCLEAN (Cammi Calvisano, 4 caps)
9 Paul GRIFFEN (Cammi Calvisano, 38 caps)
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 58 caps) - capitano
7 Mauro BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 70 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Cammi Calvisano, 27 caps)
5 Tommaso REATO (Femi CZ Rovigo, 7 caps)
4 Santiago DELLAPE’ (Toulon RC, 53 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
2 Fabio ONGARO (Saracens, 60 caps)
1 Salvatore PERUGINI (Stade Toulousain, 56 caps)


16 Carlo FESTUCCIA (Racing Metro Paris, 46 caps)
17 Carlos NIETO (Gloucester RFC, 32 caps)
18 Carlo Antonio DEL FAVA (Ulster, 33 caps)
19 Josh SOLE (MPS Viadana, 34 caps)
20 Giulio TONIOLATTI (AlmavivA UR Capitolina, 2 caps)
21 Gonzalo GARCIA (Cammi Calvisano, 6 caps)
22 Andrea BACCHETTI (Femi CZ Rovigo, esordiente)

marius

barnesd wrote: »

15 Andrea MASI (Biarritz Olympique, 45 caps)
14 Kaine ROBERTSON (MPS Viadana, 36 caps)
13 Gonzalo CANALE (Clermont-Auvergne, 43 caps)
12 Mirco BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 57 caps)
11 Matteo PRATICHETTI (Cammi Calvisano, 13 caps)
10 Luke MCLEAN (Cammi Calvisano, 4 caps)
9 Paul GRIFFEN (Cammi Calvisano, 38 caps)
8 Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 58 caps) - capitano
7 Mauro BERGAMASCO (Stade Francais, 70 caps)
6 Alessandro ZANNI (Cammi Calvisano, 27 caps)
5 Tommaso REATO (Femi CZ Rovigo, 7 caps)
4 Santiago DELLAPE’ (Toulon RC, 53 caps)
3 Martin CASTROGIOVANNI (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
2 Fabio ONGARO (Saracens, 60 caps)
1 Salvatore PERUGINI (Stade Toulousain, 56 caps)


16 Carlo FESTUCCIA (Racing Metro Paris, 46 caps)
17 Carlos NIETO (Gloucester RFC, 32 caps)
18 Carlo Antonio DEL FAVA (Ulster, 33 caps)
19 Josh SOLE (MPS Viadana, 34 caps)
20 Giulio TONIOLATTI (AlmavivA UR Capitolina, 2 caps)
21 Gonzalo GARCIA (Cammi Calvisano, 6 caps)
22 Andrea BACCHETTI (Femi CZ Rovigo, esordiente)

Strong team...expect TOL to hammer Griffin all day, he will only last about 40 mins....

their half backs are really weak....think McClean plays primarily at full-back?

Savage pack.....

toomevara

Now that looks like a proper rugby team...strong enough, with quality throughout...pity about the back three..

Crash

Can anyone tell me exactly what happened to Griffen that he went from being second choice under troncon to 10 billionth choice, behind Bergemasco? :P

Going Waterforward

Going Waterforward wrote: »

Can anyone tell me exactly what happened to Griffen that he went from being second choice under troncon to 10 billionth choice, behind Bergemasco? :P

He got old

Crash

Huh, 34, who woulda thought? :P

sm.org

Good move sticking Mirco bergamasco at 12 , he's defense is huge. His brother will be like a man on fire at 7. Either a contender for MOTM or sent off me thinks.

toomevara

Going Waterforward wrote: »

Can anyone tell me exactly what happened to Griffen that he went from being second choice under troncon to 10 billionth choice, behind Bergemasco? :P

It's a weird one. He is, after all, the first choice scrum-half of the Italian club champions, is he not? You would have though it'd be a no brainer for last weekends game, given the depth of the scrum half crisis in italy

Noopti

toomevara wrote: »

Now that looks like a proper rugby team...strong enough, with quality throughout...pity about the back three..

Quality throughout? Don't know about that. Strong pack, but their backline is weak. Half backs should be there for the taking, and our backrow should target them in a big way.

toomevara

Noopti wrote: »

Quality throughout? Don't know about that. Strong pack, but their backline is weak. Half backs should be there for the taking, and our backrow should target them in a big way.

Of course quality is a relative term in respect of the eyties but I'd say 1-8, top class, and a nice centre pairing....if only they could nail the 9-10 axis and find a quality back 3 and they'd give anyone a run for their money....

Tirabaralla

I'm quite excited about this game (and i don't even know if I'll be able to watch it, darrrrn!)...I am not an expert so, as a contribution I thought I could let you know what our team, sports press and experts think about tomorrow's match...

Bergamasco (Mirco) said to the press that is gonna be a very intense match and that Italy has to mantain the concentration during the whole of it, and that the players are happy to see that rugby is really growing in popularity in Italy as the sold out at the Stadio Flaminio demonstrates.
Mallet says that your level has much increased in the last year with the new coach and that you are much more dangerous than England when you have the ball in your hands, so we are gotta play a flawless game.

(font: interviews on www.datasport.it)

Parisse said to the press that he believes the first 20 minutes to be utterly important and that Italy must not repeat the errors made with England in the first half an hour of the game (loosing the ball possession giving them the possibility to score tree times), errors that made everything much more difficult for Italy during the rest of the match. He also said that the Stadio Flaminio being so full of supporters will give energy and a bigger responsability to the team.

In the meanwhile Italy has candidate to host the World Cup in 2012 or 2016.


If you have curiousity bout something that I can find out or translate for you...just ask ^_^

Getting quite excited about this game nowHope it is a cracker.