MMR vaccine and autism...opinions??

jtbub15

Hi all,

Am currently looking over alot of scientific papers to see opinions about children being immunised against MMR. However that has been some thoughts about the MMR vaccine being connected to an increase in the levels of austism. Now as far as I have got in the papers so far, this idea has been widely discredited.

Any one any views or heard of anything about a link?? In one recent review in the financial times, President Obama was quoted to say "the science right now is inconclusive and we have to research it".

Thank you in advance.

taram

Everything I've heard has been from the one paper (Wakefield et al.) and that's been torn to shreds.

Lifted from an NHS site "The evidence is that MMR vaccine does not cause autism or inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). There are now numerous studies that do not support a link between autism and IBD and the MMR vaccine (CSM, 1999; Gillberg and Heijbel, 1998; Taylor et al, 1999; Davis et al, 2001; DeWilde et al, 2001)."

ergo

there was something about this on the front of the Sunday Times in the UK this week about how the authors of that article are facing professional misconduct charges from the General Medical Council (ie. could be struck off if charges upheld) for the way they went about this MMR/autism study

sorry for the long post below but this is a copy and paste with more info that I found on the GMC site

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The Panel will inquire into allegations of serious professional misconduct by
Dr Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch, in relation to the conduct of a research study involving young children from 1996-98.

Dr Wakefield, Professor Walker-Smith and Professor Murch, were at the relevant times employed by the Royal Free Hospital School of Medicine with Honorary Clinical contracts at the Royal Free Hospital.

It is alleged that the three practitioners were named as Responsible Consultants on an application made to the Ethical Practices Committee of the Royal Free Hospital NHS Trust (“the ethics committee”) in 1996 to undertake a research study involving children who suffered from gastrointestinal symptoms and a rare behavioural condition called disintegrative disorder. The title of the study was “A new paediatric syndrome: enteritis and disintegrative disorder following measles/rubella vaccination”. The Panel will inquire into allegations that the three practitioners undertook research during the period 1996-98 without proper ethical approval, failed to conduct the research in accordance with the application submitted to the ethics committee, and failed to treat the children admitted into the study in accordance with the terms of the approval given by the ethics committee. For example, it will be alleged that some of the children did not qualify for the study on the basis of their behavioural symptoms.

It is further alleged that the three practitioners permitted a programme of investigations to be carried out on a number of children as part of the research study, some of which were not clinically indicated when the Ethics Committee had been assured that they were all clinically indicated. These investigations included colonoscopies and lumbar punctures. It is alleged that the performance of these investigations was contrary to the clinical interests of the children.

The research undertaken by the three practitioners was subsequently written up in a paper published in the Lancet in February 1998 entitled “Ileal-Lymphoid-Nodular Hyperplasia, Non-Specific Colitis and Pervasive Developmental Disorder in Children” (“the Lancet paper”).

It is alleged that the three practitioners inaccurately stated in the Lancet paper that the investigations reported in it were approved by the ethics committee.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield and Professor Walker-Smith acted dishonestly and irresponsibly in failing to disclose in the Lancet paper the method by which they recruited patients for inclusion in the research which resulted in a misleading description of the patient population in the Lancet paper. It is further alleged that Dr Wakefield gave a dishonest description of the patient population to the Medical Research Council.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield and Professor Walker-Smith administered a purportedly therapeutic substance to a child for experimental reasons prior to obtaining information about the safety of the substance. It is alleged that such actions were irresponsible and contrary to the clinical interests of the child.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield was involved in advising solicitors acting for persons alleged to have suffered harm by the administration of the MMR vaccine. It is alleged that Dr Wakefield’s conduct in relation to research funds obtained from the Legal Aid Board (“LAB”) was dishonest and misleading. It will be alleged that Dr Wakefield ought to have disclosed his funding from the LAB to the Ethics Committee but did not.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield ordered investigations on some children as part of the research carried out at the Royal Free Hospital from 1996-98 without the requisite paediatric qualifications to do so and in contravention of his Honorary Consultant appointment.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield failed to disclose his involvement in the MMR litigation, his receipt of funding from the LAB and his involvement in a Patent relating to a new vaccine to the Editor of the Lancet which was contrary to his duties as a senior author of the Lancet paper.

The Panel will inquire into allegations that Dr Wakefield acted unethically and abused his position of trust as a medical practitioner by taking blood from children at a birthday party to use for research purposes without ethics committee approval, in an inappropriate social setting, and whilst offering financial inducement


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Kwekubo

Obama's comments got a lot of press during the campaign because of the way they looked written down:

"We've seen just a skyrocketing autism rate," said President-elect Obama. "Some people are suspicious that it's connected to the vaccines. This person included. The science right now is inconclusive, but we have to research it," he said.

Compare this to what he actually said:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/04/dr_obama_and_dr_mccain.html

Turning to your original question, the Wakefield paper has been totally discredited. The original paper admitted that it didn't establish cause and effect; it was retracted in 2004, and as ergo says above, The Sunday Times published a story last week revealing that Wakefield had actually baked the data. No-one else has managed to come up with the same conclusions; for example a 2006 review of 27, 749 Canadian children born over an eleven year period from 1987 to 1998 found no connection between MMR and autism. The Wakefield paper examined 13 children.

drzhivago

jtbub15 wrote: »

Hi all,

Am currently looking over alot of scientific papers to see opinions about children being immunised against MMR. However that has been some thoughts about the MMR vaccine being connected to an increase in the levels of austism. Now as far as I have got in the papers so far, this idea has been widely discredited.

Any one any views or heard of anything about a link?? In one recent review in the financial times, President Obama was quoted to say "the science right now is inconclusive and we have to research it".

Thank you in advance.

Am a doc
3 kids
all have been vaccinated per guide schedules thus far without hesitation
personally I think it would be irresponsible not to

when all the Wakefield stories come out people will be amazed that he got any credibility at all

I really dont think that has been a proven increase in the rates of autism just that we now diagnose it where previously children were described as odd or anti social

If we have any more kids they too will be vaccinated

all my doctor and nurse friends have had the kids vaccinated

anotherlostie

As a doctor friend said to me, the risk of anything going wrong is a lot higher if your child catches one (or more) of the diseases compared to giving the child the MMR vaccine.

eth0_

It's not 'inconclusive'; there has been no scientific study that has conclusively PROVEN a link between autism and MMR, while there have been shedloads that have proved it's a safe vaccine.

There has been no massive jump in autism rates since MMR was introduced - which you would expect to see if MMR caused it, considering the blanket coverage of the population - that can't be put down to better rates of diagnosis.

I'm not a neurologist but AFAIK autism is physically evident in the brain from birth.

People who refuse to vaccinate their kids are irresponsible morons. What if your kid catches one of the MMR illnesses and then comes into contact with a pregnant woman who may miscarry or her child may develop foetal abnormalities? What if your kid comes into contact with someone who has a weakened immune system and they then die?

It's complete and utter selfishness and these homeopaths and pseudoscientists like Wakefield should be brought to account for endangering public health.

The statistics are frightening - in England only 75% of children are getting the MMR vaccine nowadays, and that drops to _50%_ in London.

Media hysteria over MMR is a powerful and dangerous thing.

drzhivago

eth0_ wrote: »

It's not 'inconclusive'; there has been no scientific study that has conclusively PROVEN a link between autism and MMR, while there have been shedloads that have proved it's a safe vaccine.

There has been no massive jump in autism rates since MMR was introduced - which you would expect to see if MMR caused it, considering the blanket coverage of the population - that can't be put down to better rates of diagnosis.

I'm not a neurologist but AFAIK autism is physically evident in the brain from birth.

People who refuse to vaccinate their kids are irresponsible morons. What if your kid catches one of the MMR illnesses and then comes into contact with a pregnant woman who may miscarry or her child may develop foetal abnormalities? What if your kid comes into contact with someone who has a weakened immune system and they then die?

It's complete and utter selfishness and these homeopaths and pseudoscientists like Wakefield should be brought to account for endangering public health.

The statistics are frightening - in England only 75% of children are getting the MMR vaccine nowadays, and that drops to _50%_ in London.

Media hysteria over MMR is a powerful and dangerous thing.

Agree
media hysteria has significant effect on vaccination rates
when that study linking mMR to autism came out it got headline news everywhere, rates plummeted

Now its been debunked its not news, doesnt get the same headlines, the idea is already in a lot of peoples heads and difficult to retrieve the position, I feel sorry for public health docs facing this, must be so demoralising having same chat over and over about stuff that is not important when you could give time to parents about stuff that actually is important like exercise, diet and obesity in kids