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Investigation into shooting of deer Donegal
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09-02-2009 8:39pm#1
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do you think the lads and ladies involved in rifle target shooting dont bring there rifles into the field to shoot game or vermin ..
Have you come across many of these on the hills?
Sure some people do both hunting and target shooting and therefore have to fulfil both sets of requirements. People who only shoot targets should not be forced to do a course aimed at people with an interest in deer.rd 1 ,is spot on any one applying for a firearm licence should have to do a course ,not a micky mouse one like the ones running now .
but a intensive course ran by properly trained persons ,that can evaluate the applicant in every way .
we would not have the government and guards trying to decommission us if we had .
There is a world of difference between forcing target shooters to do the HCAP and putting all applicants through a proper screening/training program targeted at whatever discipline they wish to pursue.
The latter is a good idea if run by the correct people, the former is quite simply as dumb an idea as they come0 -
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Have you come across many of these on the hills?
Sure some people do both hunting and target shooting and therefore have to fulfil both sets of requirements. People who only shoot targets should not be forced to do a course aimed at people with an interest in deer.
There is a world of difference between forcing target shooters to do the HCAP and putting all applicants through a proper screening/training program targeted at whatever discipline they wish to pursue.
The latter is a good idea if run by the correct people, the former is quite simply as dumb an idea as they come
im not talking about the hcap or another course .
a new firearms owners course ,set out by the guards and the shooting bodies that every one entering into our sport will have.
to show they have a level of cop on to own a firearm .
we pay a lot of money each year in renewals ,put it back into training people in the safe of firearms ,use also it would help filter out the scum bags .
it should be a privlage not a right to own firearms in this country.
p.s. not in that colour0 -
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Deerspotter wrote: »What is the attraction to poaching?
Meat?
Money?
Sport?
Population Reduction?
Why do people commit crimes?Why do people steal, rob ,murder etc?
Poaching is not a simple crime to describe..In olden times it was considerd an honourable trade for anyone of stout heart and foot.We venerate a poacher known in English litature as Willam Shakespear.He poached the Kings deer in Stratford on Avon.We all know mr Robin Hood,not for robbing the rich and keeping 60%.Any good Irish solicitor will do that on a daily basis.But because he was a damn poacher and hence the reason the Sheriff of Nottingham spent so much time trying to nab mr R Hood and his merrie men.It was also a dangerous profession.The penalty under the Norman law of venison for poaching the lords deer was hanging ,drawing and quartering.Before the Normans arrived in England,deer and game belonged to anyone who could catch or kill it.So traditionaly in England poaching was considerd a blow against the Norman invader,and then later against the English feudal/nobility of the period.
This was also common anywhere where the commoners lost the right to hunt at will.
In Germany/Austria the penalty for the poacher was to be bound in the hide of the animal he poached and be cast into the nearest river or off the nearest cliff!!While it could be argued the Normans introduced the first game laws to protect game.It wasnt for the benefit of Lords and Commoners alike.It was for the benefit of the Nobility to [1] hunt for their idle amusement as they really didnt need the food,just the thrills and [2] to keep the peasentry under control tending their subsistence plots on which they were taxed in either coin or foodstuffs.
So put yourself in the peasents shoes [if they had any ]of anytime from Norman to the early 20th century.Your land is taxed in coin or food,you kids are starving as you are.There deer out on the land proably eating your last few miserable crops..Wouldnt you take the chance of aquiring some meat??This attitude has prevaled up thru the ages to the present day.A strike against the better off[Class war or resistance?]THere is plenty of evidence to suggest this in English litature and history and actual German history,where there was a real Robin Hood in the 17th century known as the Bavarian Heisel [rouge].Who poached and almost started a pouplar uprising as well.
Desperation of hunger?Winter 1945 48 +/- Germany when people were actually starving from malnutrition.There were actual gun battles between poachers and forestry officals using surplus weaponary from both sides of the conflict.As well as shootouts with German poachers,forestry officals and occuping Allied forces,notably US GIs and British personel who werent adverse to some fresh deer.The Russians?They just packed everyone off to the nearest lead mine in Siberia who was caught with an illegal firearm.No such thing as poaching the peoples deer there!
Bravado?Some elite Austrian mountain officer corps units still considerd that you were not part of the Mess untill you returned with a poached Chamois until recently in the 1970s.I'm sure we still have the odd young fellah or oul fellah who feels a need of divlement to shoot the odd rabbit or pheasent to prove his individualism.They are pretty harmless and if caught can be "turned" to a shooters advantage and ally,if done right.
Pouplation reduction.
This is the intresting one.In some parts of the world where the greenie,enviromentalist,jerk anti hunter or office bound burrocrat rules supreme,and no game may be shot,rather let it starve to death,as there are no natural predators to deal with the aging pouplation[Like NJ USA in the 1980s].There are some people who consider it a CRIMINAL WASTAGE BY THE STATE of a natural resource that should be harvested to [1]Keep a natural balance in the system of harvesting surplus game by any means and [2] supplying themselves with meat that would otherwise go to waste. Or [3] as in Africa with ivory,there is a huge amount of money to be made by some poor sod whose sole possesion is an AK and there is plenty of elephants[to him[] with ivory walking around his kraal.
That is it VERY simplified.
However what we have here is not "poaching" in the true sense of the word,rather more vandalism and rape of a natural resource. I wouldnt even give these people the title of poachers.
1] They are simply shooting at night any deer that comes under a jack light.Stupid and primitive.And shows no concept of security or how to harvest surplus meat to keep a resource for next year.
2]They are taking trophy heads and leaving the meat to rot.So thats the equivelant of robbing a bank and leaving the 10 and 20 notes and just grabbing the 100and 500 notes.Guess which is more traceable??A trophy head over a bar or wherever or a carcass that will be eaten??Plus any professional poacher would not dream of having any trophies hanging around his house that are not explainable,if any at all.
3]They are blatantly obvious about doing this and dont even bother hiding their actions from anyone,due to fearlessness or contempt of the law.
All in all they are breaking every rule of traditional poaching,which is take what you need to eat or sell discreetly.[2]Let no one know you were there,past or present[3]Have your story squared away to explain everything you do,did or know.
As is said this is not a simple black/white problem or solution contray to what many willsay.It is a social,psychological,enviromental,problemWhy can all of these not be acheived legally?
Indeed they can,but see above explanations,as to why not for some people.Also, are poachers ever caught? If so, can they say that they saw an 'injured' deer and just shot it to finish it off, as is anyones right to do?
Yes they are mostly thru their own stupidity than anything else.
Depends where the deer is.if it is on a public road, quite possible,although you could be got on maybe discharging a firearm in a public place.???On your shooting ground depends what you were doing at the time you poached the deer.IE no sect 42 and jack lighting.On ground you have no permission to hunt on,doubtful at best.
You could possibly????
get away with it if you saw the animal in acute distress.IE it was entangled in wire via it's antlers,trapped in a fence,snared,trapped,entangled in some sort of human made material,IE wire rope,tyres[has happened],or was physically injured or diseased.
All in all it would depend on the circumstances and intent and evidence.
.This is a most facinating facet of Irish society
More of all societies and more in a criminologistical way than in hunting"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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