FF TD calls for work permits to be re-examined

connundrum

A Fianna Fail TD has called for work permits for non EU nationals to be examined given our changing economic situation

Noel O'Flynn was commenting on new figures released by the Department of Social and Family affairs were released.

They show that out of the 17 thousand people issued with PPS numbers in January, over 3,000 of those were from non EU countries

Speaking to the Breakfast show here on Newstalk Deputy O Flynn said he wanted the system to be reviewed


Might free up a few jobs for EU citizens.

I know several (20+) people who are here on a Stamp 2 (student) visa and are working 50 or more hours a week.

doolox

I have two experiences of this.
I worked in a large multinational and had to work with three non EU nationals, two were absolute gentlemen one was a sly lazy c~~t and the third was an absolute bully, wanting things his own way, thought he knew everything but was average in his job treated me like ****.
The third guy wasn't above playing the race card of he was reported for the bullying and I was left to defend myself with very little help from management.
This is known as equality.
I had to end up depending on my fellow Irish and other European work-mates to tell him to back off and cut me some slack.
While the other two non-Europeans were given turns leading the team he was never left in charge....I wonder why?
He was one of the reasons Why I took redundancy and left.

On the other hand in my wifes work there is always a chronic shortage of staff and the non-nationals who work their are good but need careful coaching to be as assertive as the European workers when working as part of a close team. While their written language may be excellent their spoken word can be difficult to make out but that can be rectified with training.
I think ALL work visas should be reviewed with the object of giving as many opportunities to EU and Irish people to secure jobs and all others should be told to make other arrangements as quickly as possible within the limits of what is allowed by international law.

corkfella

welcome to the call of irish jobs for irish people! its a tricky subject and this government has shown no fight for making difficult calls. Noel o'flynn is well known for his right wing views in cork but at least he articulates an opinion...

janullrich

Well done to him for calling for it. It is about time that something was done. A walk around Dublin City Centre shows that the governement in a time of recession have not a clue on this issue. Work permits should have been examined long time ago. Far too many non EU nationals are in the country and of course the first to suffer when there is job losses are the Irish. Sad.

MIN2511

Work permits are only authorised to "skilled" employees, many companies are too lazy to fill documentation/pay the fee for this so they ignore foreign workers.
Most of these foreign workers migrated to Ireland, and now have families(wives may be EU, Children with Irish passports) so even if the government decides to cut down work permits(which they have) these people are now the responsibility of the Government.

janullrich wrote: »

Well done to him for calling for it. It is about time that something was done. A walk around Dublin City Centre shows that the government in a time of recession have not a clue on this issue. Work permits should have been examined long time ago. Far too many non EU nationals are in the country and of course the first to suffer when there is job losses are the Irish. Sad.

There are over 100,000 foreign students and by foreign i mean non white(Asians, Africans and Indians) these students are allowed to work 20hrs during the term and 40 hrs when on holidays.
These students pay fees to study in Ireland, a medical student in RCSI pays 32k per anum and that is excluding rent and expenses. These students contribute to the economy!
A few of the companies making employees redundant are multinationals, these companies are moving their business to countries where skills are cheap, expenses are cheap too. Ireland priced itself out of the economy, most of these countries are "cash rich" as opposed to "credit rich" which is where Ireland falls into.
As it is there is a reduction on the amount of work permits being issued to foreign nationals

janullrich

I think it is fairly well known that many of these "students" flaunt their work permits and are openly working particularly the Chinese. Therefore it shows that the rules are not working. However unfortunately the horse has bolted. The government allowed anybody to come in a few years ago and now that the economy is going down the tubes it is the Irish not the Chinese or Nigerians who are suffering most of all.

MIN2511

These people are human beings you know, you cannot expect them to pack their bags and leave because the economy is bad!
Do you know what would happen if Australia, America, Canada and China ask all the immigrants to leave?
Yes it is a crisis but kicking us out isn't going to help/change matters.

I agree that some students abuse their priviledges but surely you understand that there are some situations which can't be avoided.

stepbar

He's right. I used to work in a role where students on visas would come to me looking for loans. Every one of them was working in excess of the legal hours they were allowed to. A lot of them are using different bank accounts to put wages into and getting loans on the back of it. Totally illegal but yet there doesn't seem to be much will to crackdown on the issues at play.

BTW don't get me started on the Chinese. I don't have a great view about a lot of them. A lot being paid cash with no evidence of who or what they're getting paid.

artful_codger

janullrich wrote: »

I think it is fairly well known that many of these "students" flaunt their work permits and are openly working particularly the Chinese. Therefore it shows that the rules are not working. However unfortunately the horse has bolted. The government allowed anybody to come in a few years ago and now that the economy is going down the tubes it is the Irish not the Chinese or Nigerians who are suffering most of all.

why should the chinese or nigerians suffer? they're not the ones who speculated with three or four properties, or mismanaged the banks, or handed over brown envelopes to politicians for planning decisions, or blew all our tax revenues on overbudget roads and tunnels that are too short. If us irish were more like the chinese and nigerians, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess that we have created for ourselves?

MIN2511

artful_codger wrote: »

why should the chinese or nigerians suffer? they're not the ones who speculated with three or four properties, or mismanaged the banks, or handed over brown envelopes to politicians for planning decisions, or blew all our tax revenues on overbudget roads and tunnels that are too short. If us irish were more like the chinese and nigerians, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess that we have created for ourselves?

I agree to some point on this, most 2nd and 3rd world countries are CASH rich as opposed to CREDIT rich!

AARRRGH

artful_codger wrote: »

why should the chinese or nigerians suffer? they're not the ones who speculated with three or four properties, or mismanaged the banks, or handed over brown envelopes to politicians for planning decisions, or blew all our tax revenues on overbudget roads and tunnels that are too short. If us irish were more like the chinese and nigerians, maybe we wouldn't be in this mess that we have created for ourselves?

I agree, but life isn't fair.

I don't know how I feel on this topic. One part of me says "it makes sense to get stricter on immigration" while the other part says "but they're human beings just trying to make a living..."

janullrich

This is the great problem in Ireland. We are very weak kneed when we come to immigration. They are human beings???? Yep well let them be that in Nigeria and China. I am fed up giving my tax payers money to support extra kids that a non EU national has and fed up seeing Chinese getting away with the well known trade of cash under the counter while posing as "students".

Yes some Irish bought no of properties but they did not bring the country down. It was a share of the bankers idiotcy and worldwide situations. A lot of ordinary Irish are suffering and they take greater priority as any Nigerian claiming suppoed asylum and getting social welfare. Let them pack their bags back to Nigeria where they are from and earn their welfare their.

esharknz

I was under the impression that a work permit scheme was to be introduced for students. Already a number of students are prevented from working legally (depending on their course) due to the past abuse of others (but then again, I know of a fair few Irish in Australia who are there unlawfully, as an example).

Work permits are issued where an employer has demonstrated that they are unable to locate a suitable EEA national to fill the position, and, as I've been through the process (I hold a green card), it's no easy feat to be issued with one. I also know of a fair few degree qualified people who have been refused work permits as well.

AARRRGH

janullrich wrote: »

This is the great problem in Ireland. We are very weak kneed when we come to immigration. They are human beings???? Yep well let them be that in Nigeria and China. I am fed up giving my tax payers money to support extra kids that a non EU national has and fed up seeing Chinese getting away with the well known trade of cash under the counter while posing as "students".

Yes some Irish bought no of properties but they did not bring the country down. It was a share of the bankers idiotcy and worldwide situations. A lot of ordinary Irish are suffering and they take greater priority as any Nigerian claiming suppoed asylum and getting social welfare. Let them pack their bags back to Nigeria where they are from and earn their welfare their.

You have to accept that some immigrants will be dishonest, just like some Irish people are dishonest. It's human nature.

Should Irish people be stopped from emmigrating as well? Or should we have a different rule for us?

Mr. Croft

Most students have restrictions on their visas which means they are bottom of the list for available jobs. Most do jobs cleaning toilets, housekeeping etc. They also pay thousands into colleges each semester, to take away visas would close most of these places. Most of them earn just enough to survive which means they spend all there money here. If they are made unemployed they are not entitled to any benefits what so ever. Also they are renting lots of accomodation here. An irish person would rather the dole than clean toilets for 20 hours per week. If there's no jobs they will stop coming anyway.

Waste of time, will not solve anything, could make things worse, theres pleny of europeans who will come if non eu workers dont.

wratch

janullrich wrote: »

This is the great problem in Ireland. We are very weak kneed when we come to immigration. They are human beings???? Yep well let them be that in Nigeria and China. I am fed up giving my tax payers money to support extra kids that a non EU national has and fed up seeing Chinese getting away with the well known trade of cash under the counter while posing as "students".

Yes some Irish bought no of properties but they did not bring the country down. It was a share of the bankers idiotcy and worldwide situations. A lot of ordinary Irish are suffering and they take greater priority as any Nigerian claiming suppoed asylum and getting social welfare. Let them pack their bags back to Nigeria where they are from and earn their welfare their.

you need medical attention you are not well sure :eek:

the_syco

Do student who work their 20 hours a week need "work visas"?

Also, what percentage of the work permits are given to care-givers, nurses, doctors, etc. I think it looks good as a headline, but as many are needed, I don't think many will be refused a work permit. As for the colleges, the non-EU students pay good money to study here, so I doubt the colleges will shoot themselves in the foot reporting johnny foreigner whom they think is working too many hours in the local Spar...

MIN2511

No they don't need work visa for 20hrs during College and 40hrs on holidays.... Its stamped on their passports

absolutely stupid argument, noel o'flynn jumps on peoples emotions, hes not a good politician.
how many irish have emigrated and are living and working outside the eu, what if all them had to come home in the morning cos the countries they are in reviewed permits.
ireland would be far worse off

how many irish are actually outside the eu, i would love to know this figure, quiet a lot i would imagine

LD8

Lets trade off all imigrants leaving here for all Irish living and working abroad ....Lets make everybody "go back to where they came from". Will that solve the problem? Hardly.

Get real.....

esharknz

While there were 3,000 non-EU nationals supplied with PPS numbers, this is not broken down by immigration status.

Some of the non-EU nationals could be married to Irish/EU nationals, hence would not require a work permit. Some may be working holiday makers, enjoying an experience similar to those experienced by the Irish who go down under (would they like to cut those as well and not have the opportunity to enjoy a year in Australia/NZ due it being a reciprocal agreement?) to reduce the non-EU nationals applying for PPS numbers.

Having been through the work permit system here (2007), it's not exactly a walk in the park.

janullrich

wratch wrote: »

you need medical attention you are not well sure :eek:

when you can write English sensibally write something down will u? otherwise get grammer lessons.

big_show

You might want to go split's on those grammar lesson's...