Government aims for 150,000 cycling commuters

Run_to_da_hills

The new Government smarter travel plan aims to move 500,000 people from the car to what the plans terms 'more sustainable forms of transport' It would include getting up to up to 150,000 on their saddles.

I would like to contribute to this myself, In order to get bicycles into the city one must allow normal Bicycles on to the Dart, (Not these ridiculous pot hole swallowing fold up models) they can easily do this by designating a decent portion of each Dart to accommodate bicycles.

Ii also believe many of the other trains including the new 22000's can only accomodate two bicycles at the most.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0205/transport.htmlon

bill_ashmount

I don't know what it is like in Dublin, but it is too dangerous in Cork to cycle in and out to work in the majority of places. I've tried it and nearly been hurt a few times. Cycle lanes are practically non-existant, I can only think of one or two short stretches that might last for a 100 meters or so and then magically disappear.

I've been forced to use my car for work journeys when I would much rather cycle or use public transport. How the fu*k do they intend getting people on bikes, because I'm damn sure that they won't be building cycle lanes anytime soon. :mad:

Rawr

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would like to contribute to this myself, In order to get bicycles into the city one must allow normal Bicycles on to the Dart, (Not these ridiculous pot hole swallowing fold up models) they can easily do this by designating a decent portion of each Dart to accommodate bicycles.

Agree fully with you there RTDH. Used to commute to work, half commuter-train and half foldy bike. If felt great to cycle to and from the stations. However the Folder couldn't handle the potholey suface of the industrial estates I had to go though and the wheels would often need repair. Also it looked crazy.

Always wanted to bring my normal, tougher bike on the train. This should be allowed for, on Dart, Commuter Rail and any other transport that can accomodate it.

Secure bike parking must also be available.

Tom Dunne

Rawr wrote: »

Always wanted to bring my normal, tougher bike on the train. This should be allowed for, on Dart, Commuter Rail and any other transport that can accomodate it.

The problem with the trains is that there simply wouldn't be the room - they are crowded to capacity as it is during rush hour.

Dangers of cycling aside, who wants to cycle in Irish weather? I'm not a cyclist myself, but I wouldn't for a moment consider purchasing a bike in this climate.

Rawr

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Dangers of cycling aside, who wants to cycle in Irish weather? I'm not a cyclist myself, but I wouldn't for a moment consider purchasing a bike in this climate.

Did it year-round. It takes getting used to cycling in cold and wet, and of course there are days when it is too bad...but that is when I'd switch to the bus. Wouldn't go out on it when it's icy.

Plus, it saved me from having to pay for a gym...nearly 2 hours exercise daily

Run_to_da_hills

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The problem with the trains is that there simply wouldn't be the room - they are crowded to capacity as it is during rush hour.

Dangers of cycling aside, who wants to cycle in Irish weather? I'm not a cyclist myself, but I wouldn't for a moment consider purchasing a bike in this climate.

There is heaps of room on the Dart for bicycles, It is now getting noticeable the drop in commuter traffic with unemployment rising sharply. In Glenageary station alone the commuter parking has dropped by over a third in two years. This along with the recent upgrade to 6 & 8 garage Dart sets could easily allow room for a car designated for cycles.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

There is heaps of room on the Dart for bicycles, It is now getting noticeable the drop in commuter traffic with unemployment rising sharply. In Glenageary station alone the commuter parking has dropped by over a third in two years. This along with the recent upgrade to 6 & 8 garage Dart sets could easily allow room for a car designated for cycles.

Glenageary traffic has dropped because they put in paid parking on the surrounding streets.

I agree weith your point though about allowing bikes. All businesses over a certain size should be required to provide shower and changing facilities for employees too, to further encourage cycling

paulm17781

What happens if 4 people get on the same carriage with bikes? It would cause chaos.

KeyserSöze

This would not be an option coming in from the Maynooth line - the train is sardine full every day (except for the Docklands line).

There have been numerous approaches to our company to get showers fitted in the building we currently occupy (~200 staff) but these are constantly rebuffed on either 'space' or 'health & safety' reasons.

If a shower facility was available I'd be on my bike in a shot.

Cookie_Monster

KeyserSöze wrote: »

If a shower facility was available I'd be on my bike in a shot.

+1, I cycle sometimes now but it's not practicle when its raining cos I can't change after

KevR

Cycling is not dangerous in Galway in my opinion, although many people would say that it is.

I used to cycle to work everyday before I could drive. It was a really miserable experience when the weather was aweful.

Now, I only cycle to work when the weather is ok (which isn't really all that often!). Never had any accidents or near misses and that's cycling during rush hour and somtimes when it's dark. I can't say I miss cycling in the bad weather and I will never go back to doing it.

Heroditas

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Dangers of cycling aside, who wants to cycle in Irish weather? I'm not a cyclist myself, but I wouldn't for a moment consider purchasing a bike in this climate.

Maybe the gubbernment will introduce a raingear grant. No doubt they will give this serious consideration :rolleyes:

KevR

Heroditas wrote: »

Maybe the gubbernment will introduce a raingear grant. No doubt they will give this serious consideration :rolleyes:

They could increase the parking levy to €250 an introduce a Congestion Charge for Dublin to pay for it. I wouldn't be surprised... :rolleyes:

Stark

KeyserSoze wrote:

but these are constantly rebuffed on either 'space' or 'health & safety' reasons.

Ah health and safety. "Someone might slip and sue us", ie: "we can't be arsed".

IIMII

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

+1, I cycle sometimes now but it's not practicle when its raining cos I can't change after

Yeah, even from the point of view from running into work / home or at lunchtime, it would be great to have facilities like that. Is there any city on the planet that have public changing / shower facilities, other than what can sometimes be offered at rail stations?

KeyserSöze

IIMII wrote: »

Yeah, even from the point of view from running into work / home or at lunchtime, it would be great to have facilities like that. Is there any city on the planet that have public changing / shower facilities, other than what can sometimes be offered at rail stations?

If the government wants to get 150,000 of us onto our bikes then they need to look at this issue first. Some people might call it 'forward thinking' but I would just call it common sense.

Tis all well and good seeing the odd minister coming in no their bikes, but how far do they go...?

Stark

IIMII wrote: »

Yeah, even from the point of view from running into work / home or at lunchtime, it would be great to have facilities like that. Is there any city on the planet that have public changing / shower facilities, other than what can sometimes be offered at rail stations?

I doubt any place provides them for free.

I think the Markievicz leisure centre lets you use their showers/changing rooms for about €2.

loyatemu

you couldn't allow bikes on rush-hour trains - it'd be a recipe for disaster. No reason why they couldn't allow them on off-peak services though, but Irish Rail seem pretty stubbornly anti-bike.

Best solution is to buy a cheap bike and leave it at whatever station you get off at - likely to be much cheaper than a folding bike and you won't have to drag it around with you on the train.

The main problem with cycling in Dublin though is not the weather, its the traffic - bikes get no priority, have to mix with trucks and buses and are generally treated with contempt by planners, road engineers and motorists.

FIRE

I use to cycle to college. Done Raheny - Ballyfermot for 2 years, and driving through town was a joke.

How I wasnt killed I don't know (not through bad cycling on my behalf) potholes, shores etc

I'd welcome some sort of a reduction as an incentive to buy a bike and accessories to go with it. But being a motorcyclist, and with no reduction in VAT on helmets etc I dont hold much hope.


But if Cowen is doing it "his way", he might just ban cars altogether (excluding ministirial cars) and make us all use bikes.

positron

Its rather silly asking people to use public transport and start charging for parking at railway stations, not allow bikes in train, cut buses. Its like one half of the government doesn't know what the other half is doing...!

Latest stuff like carpooling etc looks like firing blank to distract the public and media for a while from other horrible things going on..!! Carpooling is the daftest solution to come from a government! There's already plenty of car pooling websites and I doubt if "organised carpooling" has ever been worked anywhere in the world. Ireland is not exactly Singapore..!!

Aard

positron wrote: »

I doubt if "organised carpooling" has ever been worked anywhere in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging


I don't cycle for two reasons. One, it's too much hassle trying to bring a change of clothes, and lack of showers at my destination. Two, the weather is awful most of the time. Having said that, I do use busses and the Luas frequently, so at least I'm doing my bit.

IIMII

Stark wrote: »

I doubt any place provides them for free.

I think the Markievicz leisure centre lets you use their showers/changing rooms for about €2.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply for free. I mean the only way around it in the past that I could think of was city centre gym membership which was too much for shower facilites.. The Markievicz centre would seem to be a good option

IIMII

Aard wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging

That's amazing. Of course it will work here................................

HonalD

Let's get on our bikes and ride into the sunset - YeeHaa....:D

L1011

Isn't there an unofficial carpooling system in Belfast? In a city that divided I've no idea how it works if at all though!

Euro_Kraut

KeyserSöze wrote: »

If the government wants to get 150,000 of us onto our bikes then they need to look at this issue first. Some people might call it 'forward thinking' but I would just call it common sense.

I'm not sure if the Govt needs to go into every office place and build showers... however the new Transport Policy does require employers to come up with a work place travel plan in consultation with employers. If the employees are pro-active and convince the employer of the need for a shower, one will surely be built. A employer would much rather have a cycling commuter coming into work everyday on time than a driver who is occasionally late and frequently fuming about lack of parking spaces. A cyclist should also be more alert.

Employers also have a responsibility to provide appropriate bike parking spaces. Once cycling become more normalized in this country the facilities in work places should follow. 60 years ago most offices did not have car parks - today they do. The Govt did not have to around building all the car parks.

The National Cycling policy will be released soon. The consultation documents have sounded very encouraging, lets hope the vision is backed up by hard cash and we can get Ireland moving


By the way, those who cite the weather as an excuse should ask themselves if our climate is that much different to Belgium or Holland - its not. Also Trondhiem in Norway is 100km for the start of the North Pole and have a large cycling commuters share (around 20%, iirc). I reckon the weather might be a bit more conducive here! Really what we lack is a cycling culture and the facilities that go with it. Hope the new policy can kick start that culture. I will take time to win over the skeptics however.

IIMII

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I'm not sure if the Govt needs to go into every office place and build showers... however the new Transport Policy does require employers to come up with a work place travel plan in consultation with employers. If the employees are pro-active and convince the employer of the need for a shower, one will surely be built. A employer would much rather have a cycling commuter coming into work everyday on time than a driver who is occasionally late and frequently fuming about lack of parking spaces. A cyclist should also be more alert.

It's not really about the showers - the roads are too dangerous

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

The National Cycling policy will be released soon. The consultation documents have sounded very encouraging

They always are.

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

lets hope the vision is backed up by hard cash

Wouldn't hold my breath

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

It will take time to win over the skeptics however.

The skeptics are not skeptical about the benefits of cycling. These are obvious. The skeptics are skeptical about the government, and their real interest in this. We've seen it all before, and this is really just Transport 21 mark 2, just without engines attached

Same dream, same lies

Euro_Kraut

IIMII wrote: »

The skeptics are not skeptical about the benefits of cycling. These are obvious. The skeptics are skeptical about the government, and their real interest in this. We've seen it all before, and this is really just Transport 21 mark 2, just without engines attached

Same dream, same lies

We have never had a National Cycling Policy before. This is something new so can agree with the 'we have seen this all before' statement. Transport 21 was largely an infrastructure framework. Smarter Travel is a Vision document about altering mindsets.

You are right to be skeptical about funding with our current problems, but the policy runs all the way to 2020. I wouldn't doubt the sincerity that Ryan and Dempsey have when it comes to sustainable travel.

Of course the ambitions may never be realised... but is it not right to have the ambitions anyways?

*On re-reading I realise that last line is a bit 'Obamaish'

IIMII

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I wouldn't doubt the sincerity that Ryan and Dempsey have when it comes to sustainable travel.

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Dempsey has done more to undermine sustainable travel than any other politician I can think of, and Ryan, well he just joined the club this week with this drivel

Euro_Kraut

IIMII wrote: »

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you? Dempsey has done more to undermine sustainable travel than any other politician I can think of, and Ryan, well he just joined the club this week with this drivel

I guarantee you that I know I hell of a lot more about this issue than you do.

IIMII

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I guarantee you that I know I hell of a lot more about this issue than you do.

Yea, I'll bet.:pac:

Euro_Kraut

IIMII wrote: »

Yea, I'll bet.:pac:

Cool. We're agreed so.

Listen lets not get silly about this. We both want the same thing (more sustainable travel in Ireland) but differ in our confidence levels in the current policy and the people administering it. Either you will be pleasantly surprised or I will be deflated. We'll see in 2020. We can both go count the number of cyclists on the road. If there's 149,999 or less, you win and I buy you a pint.

There are a lot more stakeholders involved in this aside from Ryan and Dempsey, most notably the Local Authorities. Convincing LA's of the need for proper bicycle lanes and other facilities will be difficult. After it will be them and not the Dept of Transport who construct them. However I have to believe that the arguments and made by cyclists for these facilities becomes somewhat stronger when a National Policy on Cycling is in place. That is the reason why I am more optimistic today than I was last week.

John_C

There's a cycle lane at the main entrance to UCD heading into town. It's on the main N11 dual carriageway into Dublin and right outside the entrance to the countries biggest university. Logically, this should probably be one of the busiest cycle lanes in the country. Unfortunatley, the cycle lane was built about 10 years ago on what used to be a footpath and there's a 6 inch step to get in to it. As a result, bicycles have to stay down on the main road and delay the buses.

As it happens, I live near the old traffic director in the Corpo and I know that every morning he would cycle past this step and the unusable cycle lane so there is no possibility that the little piece of bad engineering passed by unnoticed by those in charge.

This small example of cycle policy isn't particularly unusual. I've nothing against the government launching a policy document but its not useful in itself. We'll judge this government, like the last one and the one before that and the one before that ... not on their policy documents but on whether they ever do anything useful like spending 100 euro putting a little concrete ramp into that cycle lane.

IIMII

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Cool. We're agreed so.



Listen lets not get silly about this. We both want the same thing (more sustainable travel in Ireland) but differ in our confidence levels in the current policy and the people administering it. Either you will be pleasantly surprised or I will be deflated. We'll see in 2020. We can both go count the number of cyclists on the road. If there's 149,999 or less, you win and I buy you a pint.



There are a lot more stakeholders involved in this aside from Ryan and Dempsey, most notably the Local Authorities. Convincing LA's of the need for proper bicycle lanes and other facilities will be difficult. After it will be them and not the Dept of Transport who construct them. However I have to believe that the arguments and made by cyclists for these facilities becomes somewhat stronger when a National Policy on Cycling is in place. That is the reason why I am more optimistic today than I was last week.

I admire your enthuasiasm. But the cowboys that launched that document are two codgers, one old and another new. There's plenty of merit in the content, but believe me when I tell you it's designed to get people like you that believe in the initiatve very excited, and off their backs. It's all about self-interest and self-preservation. Ever hear the expression 'once eaten, soon forgotten'? They love wheeling out these shiny glossy proposals which they hold out carefully, whilst we the public try to get at them like chained starving dogs trying to get at food. And when they do feed us what they want to, they do it slowly to drain every last bit of credit out of it.. Like the Cork-Midleton line, delivered by multiple ministers for transport over numerous and photo ops, and still not open yet

Don't look at what they are saying, look at what they are doing. We'll be doing well to see any of the meritous content of that document implemented. The good news is, they always do the website though so you'll have that as an online shrine to the dream.:)

trentf

The goverment can set an example and start the cycling communities with mary harney and brian cowen...that would be a load of the taxpayers shoulders....literally....

Run_to_da_hills

trentf wrote: »

The goverment can set an example and start the cycling communities with mary harney and brian cowen...that would be a load of the taxpayers shoulders....literally....

I would pity Harneys bicycle. :eek:

AlekSmart

I'm not sure if the Govt needs to go into every office place and build showers... however the new Transport Policy does require employers to come up with a work place travel plan in consultation with employers.

This "New" Transport Policy is,just as the National Spatial Policy was,all very sensible and Germanic,and therefore absolutely guaranteed to be quietly shelved.

Just take a look around Dublin`s major developments over the past 40 years in terms of Public Transport Facilities...
Stephens Green Centre-None
Setanta Centre-None
Irish Life Centre-None
Ilac Centre-None
Arnotts (Phase1)-None
Parnell Centre-None
Jervis Centre-None

And just to reinforce the point....The New O Connell Street Proposal-None either,but the promise of 1,111 NEW Car Parking Spaces...Woo Bloody Hoo..I`l be delighted to see how they will access THAT !!

When I speak of Public Transport facilities here I`m not asking for every development to have a state-of-the-art Bus or Tram Interchange,all I seeek is the simple cheap stuff such as a few well placed accessible Bus Stop,complete with shelters and perhaps some secure bike racks.

I can just hear Noel Dempsey`s response....

"Gosh,now that sounds a good idea,Julie...get me Deloitte on the line I have another little nixer for them"

The reality in regards to cycling or any other form of Sustainable Transport,which by definition HAS to be Publicly available,is that the current multi layered administration has no more an idea of what or how to do anything about it....For a bloody start they could decide to stop the nonsense of removing 120 buses from the public fleet and instead ensure the bloody things are run more frequently and the availability of such services are suitably MARKETED.

Minister Dempsey has been rarely off the media all week waffling all sorts of oul blàs about this concept and yet has gotten no real questioning from the reporters...

He is telling me that the passengers who used to travel on my bus are gorn...left the building...vamoosed...yet I challenge him to come and take a look at the peak-time jams each morning and ask whether in fact THESE single occupants are the Replacements...or at least they should be the targets of some form of VASTLY Improved Public Bus network.....not something even possible if one sells off 120 perfectly serviceable vehicles and sacks the drivers...

Is there some vast bubble enclosing this lad`s constituency which renders it impervious to commonsense...or is his constituency office actually contained deep within Tara Fort,where daylight enters but twice a year ??

HonalD

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I would pity Harneys bicycle. :eek:

Which part would you pity most...........the saddle perhaps!:D

maninasia

This issue could be approached from another angle to change the public's perception of cycling as a whole. The easiest place to start is from the countryside with the development of dedicated cycling lanes in areas of natural beauty, either on country roads, adjoining roads or along old unused routes such as train lines and tunnels.

They could be promoted both to local tourists as a weekend activity and also to foreign cyclng tours. Bikes could be rented out from local areas. Almost everybody has a car in Ireland these days, folding bikes these days are high quality, they can easily be stowed in the boot or on bike racks for a day/week-end trip.

In this manner a real cycling culture can be built from the ground up in Ireland and demonstrate to public officials that the construction of urban infrastructure for bike lanes is a real vote getter, employers and managers themselves would not need to be asked to put in shower facilities in workplaces, they would WANT it for themselves on the nice days they would like to cycle to work.

AlekSmart

In this manner a real cycling culture can be built from the ground up in Ireland

All well and good maninasia,and it`s worth recalling that Ireland has always had a deep rooted cycling culture however our sudden accquisition of immense wealth buried that culture fast.

Take a look at any of the pictures of Dublin City Centre in the 1950`s or up till approx 1966 (No Coincidence that) and the Bicycle is very prominent across a WIDE range of riders,young,old,male,female and also work related as in Messenger Bicylcles.

After Sean Lemass took over and we turned our face to Europe we soon began to forget about our Cold,Damp,Windy climate and we eventually discovered the joy`s of Climate CONTROL via a dial on our dashboards....beat than Mr Raleigh !

Nobody in the present Government appears to have the ability to think outside their little box.....Mr Dempsey is bursting with eager enthusiasm to get rid of 120 Bus Atha Cliath vehicles,at least 50% of which could be adapted to carry bicycles and riders on dedicated routes at dedicated time-slots THROUGHOUT THE CITY !......Instead Minister Dempsey and his frock-coated retrinue of yes men (and women) simply look at their own highly personal "emergency" needs to INCREASE Private Car throughput on the new PPP Toll Roads .

maninasia,you might as well be maninthemoon for all the attention that will be paiud to your ideas !!

maninasia

I think there's no point waiting for the gubberment to come up with the solution. For instance leisure cycling is massive now in Taiwan, mainly due to the constant promotion and sponsorship of the Giant bicycle company chairman. He worked with local governments to develop bike lane infrastructure, both urban and rural. No help from central government, all from city and local governments. Once one or two towns started getting a lot of tourists and therefore revenue into all the local enterprises all the others cottoned on that this was a good moneyspinner and in the space of a few years almost every town and city in Taiwan has the guts of a bicycle lane network. It may not be good enough for commuting to work yet (not on main commuting routes) but it's a massive advance in the space of just a few years. From this they have now started to try rent-a-bike schemes integrated with the subway network. They are now envisioning a network of cycle lanes which will encircle the ENTIRE island (about 1/2 size of Ireland) and it is possible that cycling will be the number one tourist draw to the East coast of Taiwan in the next few years.

http://www.amcham.com.tw/content/view/2672/421/


There are lots of towns and villages all over Ireland that could benefit massively by promoting this type of tourism, before it didn't make sense but now you have got to give ADDED VALUE and that's the key. The business owners, guesthouses, hotels, restaurants and local councils can all get together to do this...and it will work. You don't even need to bring your own bike, you can rent them out at different locations along the bike routes. Money talks and this will make money. You will get local tourists and you will get foreign tourists. One thing to understand is that cycle lanes and cycling opportunities will be a big draw for many regular foreign tourists in the next few years, not just biking 'enthusiasts'. Foreign tourists would be mainly Europeans and Asians where leisure cycling culture has already taken hold, providing a major alternative to traditional American tourist groups.

Cycling is cheap, it's fun, it's healthy, it's something individuals, families, couples and groups can do together. The main problem in Ireland is that it is unsafe on a lot of roads, this can be solved by above method, at least for leisure weekend cyclists. Once people experience it they will get into the lifestyle (even if it is more of a summer thing in Ireland).

NewDubliner

IIMII wrote: »

The skeptics are skeptical about the government, and their real interest in this. We've seen it all before, and this is really just Transport 21 mark 2, just without engines attached

Every time the government makes noise about encouraging cycling, a cycle track disappears.

Cuddlesworth

We don't have the roads for it. Pot holes that the front wheel fits in and drivers who think its safe to pass at 50mph half a foot away.