Will the public service strike now?

321654

Heres my take on the situation.

SFA, IBEC and the Govt were in cahoots all along on this.

Whatever happens to the public sector, will happen to the private sector in time. So far only about 10% of the private sector have been hit. This will now increase to the same percentage as the public sector effected.

BAsically the govt ask for twice as much in pension levies as they think they can reasonably expect. They are expecting the threat of industrial action. When they then half the take in pension levies this will appease the unions and all will be fine. At least that is the plan.

This levy on pensions is just the start. Wait and see. They'll then anopunce a cut in tax relief on pension payments, which will be a double whamy on the public sector. As long as they get it worse the private sector will take theirs too.

If i was in the public sector i would expect to strike. Bend over and take this and they are just willing to be screwed harder. The govt will bush until they are scared to push anymore. The sooner there is a reaction to this pushing the sooner they will sit up and take notice.

I think there will be major industrial action over this. I hope there is actually because the private sector will get screwed every bit as hard as the public sector and then some.

Quazzie

All this talk of pushing has gotten me into a right tizzy

thebman

If there is major industrial action over this, then most of the public sector won't have jobs by the end of it because the country will be bankrupt.

cooperla

My opinion is that there won't be strikes.

I'm expecting to see some changes in what was announced yesterday (a portion of the pension levy with be cut and raised through other means, probably tax increase in the higher band?).

The main problem as I see it is that this is only the thin edge of the wedge as someone mentioned on the radio yesterday. If this causes strikes, then we are in for some serious problems with the other 14 or so billion that needs to be cut/raised in the coming years.

321654

If it doesnt cause strikes there will be more to follow until the breaking point is found.

Caoimhín

I pay for my pension, why shouldnt public sector workers pay for theirs?

If they do strike, they wont get much publc support.

MagicMarker

What do they need a pension for anyway, it's not like they're going to live through the apocalypse.

thebman

321654 wrote: »

If it doesnt cause strikes there will be more to follow until the breaking point is found.

There will be more to follow anyway, we have a 20 billion budget deficit and that is being optimistic.

Where do you think the money is going to come from?

And don't come back with those who caused the mess because they don't have enough to cover a quarter of the fooking mess they got us into.

CreepingDeath

Those cnuts in Dublin bus played rough with the private bus operators to send them out of business, look at Mortons.
Now they have a monopoly, they will use a strike to cripple the country.

I pay for a monthly bus ticket, now thinking of cancelling the March one in case I'm throwing money down the drain if they strike. :mad:

FlutterinBantam

Anyone who thinks industrial action will achieve anything other than make things worse,either doesn't understand the situation, or doesn't give a fook either way.

Doran the nurses GenSec. is making noises,can't really see any major action.

The country would have no tolerance for that kind of behavior imho.

Quazzie

Caoimhín wrote: »

I pay for my pension, why shouldnt public sector workers pay for theirs?

If they do strike, they wont get much publc support.

Your pension is optional. What good is a pension in 40 years time when you could lose your house now?

phasers

Biffo says the public sector will crack any minute purple monkey dishwasher.

mickoneill30

thebman wrote: »

And don't come back with those who caused the mess because they don't have enough to cover a quarter of the fooking mess they got us into.

I'm coming back with "who caused this mess?"
That was the common theme on the news last night. "I didn't cause this mess so why should I pay."

Who did cause it?

The banks?
The world economy is all shagged. Is it foreigners?
The public sector?
Private sector companies like Dell and Waterford Crystal and anybody else that moves jobs abroad because they can get them cheaper?
The government?
The opposition?
Joe soaps for shopping up north?
Shops for charging too much down here?
Wholesalers as the shops say they charge them too much?
The unions?
The builders?

The common theme on the news was "I want to do something to help but I don't want to do that". At least the unions got consulted before the government went ahead. I know the unions never seem to agree and didn't seem to have an alternative but at least they had a chance. In my company we got told 10% of our staff were being let go. No ifs or ands or buts. And that's the start (for my company).

justsomebloke

yes of course there are going to be strikes. This levy is going to hit a lot of families extremely hard, so yes people will fight for the conditions of there contract of employment so that they don't financially go under

Caoimhín

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

Your pension is optional. What good is a pension in 40 years time when you could lose your house now?

Fair point about my pension being optional, but given the option, i doubt many public servants would give it up.
It is a bit much to suggest that these cuts will lead to public servants losing their homes. Maybe their second homes...

justsomebloke

Caoimhín wrote: »

It is a bit much to suggest that these cuts will lead to public servants losing their homes. Maybe their second homes...

why do you think that, just as a matter of interest. There are a LOT of public sector works on average incomes with mortgages that are going to be wondering how they are going to get through this.

not yet

What the fu/ck is wrong with people that they dont know that public sector workers already pay 6% of the wage into a pension fund......

Yes I know it's a safe job etc, but most of them have a good education,have trained on crap money for 3-5 years, and only atfer 7 years do they go on the top of their scale. Now while at the height of the celtic tiger people made a fortune....plumbers charging 500 a day etc the p/s worker worked quitely behind the scenes.....

The private sector had it good for years, and now that we are in **** they want to target the p/s

pyramuid man

Originally Posted by Caoimhín
I pay for my pension, why shouldnt public sector workers pay for theirs?

If they do strike, they wont get much publc support.

Why were you not saying the same thing three or four years ago.

I am not a public sector worker here but I have to feel sorry for them. They are being ganged up on by everyone else in society.

Its like health insurance. Most good private sector companies give this to their employees and call it a perk.

Well this is just a perk of being a public sector worker. You dont get VHI but you get a pension. If people were calling for private sector health insurance schemes to be cut would there be as much hate towards the private sector workers in society. I dont think so.

321654

Joe the Santa wrote: »

yes of course there are going to be strikes. This levy is going to hit a lot of families extremely hard, so yes people will fight for the conditions of there contract of employment so that they don't financially go under

If they dont fight it they will just be smacked down again and end up worse off than now even. They should hit back and the bully might back off.

My fear is, the more the public sector take it up the hole, the more is coming up the private sectors hole to go with it.

Doesnt really matter if the public sector have support or not. They are big enough if they get together to do what they want.

If they strike you and i will feel it. Contrary to popular opinion, they dont all do nothing.

To make it fair it has to be PAYE increases for EVERYONE. Not cuts specific to one sector.

pyramuid man

not yet wrote: »

What the fu/ck is wrong with people that they dont know that public sector workers already pay 6% of the wage into a pension fund......

Yes I know it's a safe job etc, but most of them have a good education,have trained on crap money for 3-5 years, and only atfer 7 years do they go on the top of their scale. Now while at the height of the celtic tiger people made a fortune....plumbers charging 500 a day etc the p/s worker worked quitely behind the scenes.....

The private sector had it good for years, and now that we are in **** they want to target the p/s

They were told by Eddie Hobbs that they are overpaid.

mickoneill30

pyramuid man wrote: »

Its like health insurance. Most good private sector companies give this to their employees and call it a perk.

Nope. Most give it to you and you get charged for it. I've been in 3 big companies in the last 5 years. I didn't get free health insurance. Who gets that anymore? That perk is long gone.

Popinjay

Caoimhín wrote: »

Fair point about my pension being optional, but given the option, i doubt many public servants would give it up.

I'm a 25 year old civil servant trying to save money to move, with my long term girlfriend, have way across the world with no intention coming back. I'm losing a fair whack of cash on this that will lead to problems paying my rent. Never mind the visa applications, travel costs and other costs associated with completely upping and moving to start an entire new life somewhere else - I'll have trouble even living here.

Since I started in this job I've been more than willing to give up a pension that will be worth next to nothing to me because I won't have been working long enough to get anything like a worthwhile payment for this obligatory pension. I'm paying a spouse and child pension for God's sake. I'm still a little while off needing that. Why should I have to pay for something I don't need or want?

Rebel021

Joe the Santa wrote: »

yes of course there are going to be strikes. This levy is going to hit a lot of families extremely hard, so yes people will fight for the conditions of there contract of employment so that they don't financially go under

Well I believe it will have to happen,
Currently if this does go ahead My Family will be hit very hard,
1 working
2 Children and we are struggling with our cost of living and we don't live highly.
I stay at home and look after the children and I receive no benefit from the government like many other married couples in the country so we live on 1 income which does not cover our outgoings.

We have cut alot of our expenses from our life and are still looking at other ways to cut but with rent,shopping,heat,school and transport fees we can not cut any further and this new levy will cripple us.

If this goes ahead I really don't know what the future holds for us as we at the moment cannot cut any further.

321654

pyramuid man wrote: »

Why were you not saying the same thing three or four years ago.

I am not a public sector worker here but I have to feel sorry for them. They are being ganged up on by everyone else in society.

Its like health insurance. Most good private sector companies give this to their employees and call it a perk.

Well this is just a perk of being a public sector worker. You dont get VHI but you get a pension. If people were calling for private sector health insurance schemes to be cut would there be as much hate towards the private sector workers in society. I dont think so.

I think you hit the nail on the head. They are getting ridden and battered by everyone. The media assauklt on them is frightening. And its not fair.

The ordinary public sector worker doesnt get bonuses either.

If i didnt get my bonus in my job i would walk.

tolosenc

Hopefully it'll be work-to-rule. Might actually get some efficiency then...

*hides*

Degsy

Caoimhín wrote: »

Maybe their second homes...

Second homes my sour bollocks.
How many people on between 35-40 k(and you'd need to be there years to get that) can afford second homes?
How much weere builders and plasterers charging at the height of the boom?500 quid a day and a lot of it was cash in hand.
Estate agents making 6 grand or more on every proeprty they sold and property developers charging whatever the fcuck they want for matchbox-sized aprtments out in the sticks.

The problem is not and never has been the public sector,it was pure greed in other sectors and peopele not paying tax on thier inflated earnings.

Paddy Samurai

Caoimhín wrote: »

I pay for my pension, why shouldnt public sector workers pay for theirs?

If they do strike, they wont get much publc support.

Theres 320,000 of them ,if you add their family members maybe a millon people plus.They don't need public support,they are the public.
Ooh !,and they have lots of guns,tanks and prisons to deal with the rest of us.

mickoneill30

321654 wrote: »

If i didnt get my bonus in my job i would walk.

As in you couldn't afford transport? I don't know anybody (public or private) that isn't worried about their job. Are you in such a great industry that you can quit if you don't get a bonus? What do you do?

John Mason

I cant afford to strike

Quazzie

Caoimhín wrote: »

Fair point about my pension being optional, but given the option, i doubt many public servants would give it up.
It is a bit much to suggest that these cuts will lead to public servants losing their homes. Maybe their second homes...

Not every publis sector worker is rolling in it. My wife is a public sector worker and is on average wages, but only because she is working in her current position for 7 years. We got a mortgage based on her income because I am a private sector worker, and thus my job is unstable. Our mortgage might now be unstable because of the uncertainty about how much exactly her wages are going to be deducted. This is just one case of many. Many people she works with have gotten mortgages on the premise that their jobs were guaranteed, and that their wages were secure, now it seems only half of this is true, and if some had their way neither would be true. At the moment we are ok, but if I lost my job I know we'd rather have the extra euros every week now to secure my mortgage, than in the form of a pension later on. I think the extra levy is fair but I think the pension should be made optional.

321654

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Nope. Most give it to you and you get charged for it. I've been in 3 big companies in the last 5 years. I didn't get free health insurance. Who gets that anymore? That perk is long gone.

Wrong, Anyone i know gets VHI or other medical insurance. They get their own pension contributions matched, a lot even didnt have to match the companies pension contributuin to get it. And they get big bonuses.

Of course this is not true of all private sector workers, but most i know of have these perks.

And of the numerous compnaies ive worked for over the last 15 - 20 years in the private sector all of them have had these perks.

mickoneill30

Degsy wrote: »

How much weere builders and plasterers charging at the height of the boom?500 quid a day and a lot of it was cash in hand.

Try saying to a builder now that he has to take a 7% pay cut. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance. Rather than a 100% one.

Rebel021

321654 wrote: »

I think you hit the nail on the head. They are getting ridden and battered by everyone. The media assauklt on them is frightening. And its not fair.

The ordinary public sector worker doesnt get bonuses either.

If i didnt get my bonus in my job i would walk.

Agreed,
My wife receives no bonuses either and the attack by the media has done its job by swaying the uninformed that all public sector are earning vast amounts of money.

Caoimhín

pyramuid man wrote: »

Why were you not saying the same thing three or four years ago.

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. Most private sector jobs do NOT have health insurance as a perk.
The stare can not afford to keep the highest paid public service in Europe. If they dont make these cuts, the state will be bankrupt in 6 months and the IMF will be called in to sack 25% PS workers anyway.

I know its hard to take any paycut but it is better than losing your job like the hundred of thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs in the past year.

Degsy

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Try saying to a builder now that he has to take a 7% pay cut. I'm sure he'd jump at the chance.

Well was he paying into a pension?
Was he thinking of his future?
or was he blowing his money on new jeeps every year and property in bulgaria?

faceman

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

At the moment we are ok, but if I lost my job I know we'd rather have the extra euros every week now to secure my mortgage, than in the form of a pension later on. I think the extra levy is fair but I think the pension should be made optional.

One of the biggest issues the government created in the boom years was not provisioning for future pensions. Unfortunately that meant that the longer they left it, the harder the action to take would be. Most public servants have a guaranteed pension and havent had to make specific contributions into it.

However I do sympathise with your position. Many couples dont have the luxury of having 1 in public sector employment though.

Kimbot

I have said it many many times on here, I am a public sector employee. in my wages I already pay out 6.5% of my wage to a pension.

I have no choice in that and I have no choice in these cuts.
Why on earth should the Public service bend over backwards to keep the country afloat when its someone else that caused the collapse in the economy?

FlutterinBantam

321654 wrote: »

To make it fair it has to be PAYE increases for EVERYONE. Not cuts specific to one sector.

That's next year .

One year at a time please.

John Mason

Caoimhín wrote: »

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. .

CAN PEOPLE STOP SAYING THIS - IT IS NOT TRUE

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

mickoneill30

Rebel021 wrote: »

My wife receives no bonuses either and the attack by the media has done its job by swaying the uninformed that all public sector are earning vast amounts of money.

Nobody receives bonuses anymore. I haven't heard the media saying that public sector people get loads of money. It's more that their jobs are safer while the rest of us are losing ours.
If my company said tomorrow that if I took a 10% pay cut my job would be safe for a year I'd take it. I'd hate it too but it's looking like where I am now is not safe and I've nowhere to move to.

Quazzie

faceman wrote: »

However I do sympathise with your position. Many couples dont have the luxury of having 1 in public sector employment though.

Don't get me wrong. I still think I'm in a very lucky position especially since my job is heavily linked to construction, and I get to see a lot of the people being made redundant.

mickoneill30

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

CAN PEOPLE STOP SAYING THIS - IT IS NOT TRUE

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

Which department?

thebman

mickoneill30 wrote: »

The common theme on the news was "I want to do something to help but I don't want to do that". At least the unions got consulted before the government went ahead. I know the unions never seem to agree and didn't seem to have an alternative but at least they had a chance. In my company we got told 10% of our staff were being let go. No ifs or ands or buts. And that's the start (for my company).

Our department is 1/3 the size it was last year and I've been working here since graduated and still not got a pay increase.

mickoneill30 wrote: »

Nope. Most give it to you and you get charged for it. I've been in 3 big companies in the last 5 years. I didn't get free health insurance. Who gets that anymore? That perk is long gone.

We get but it is deducted from our salaries. In fact, we don't get a choice who with and the owner knows the head of the health insurer we are with so basically it was to lock us into health insurance with his mate. Yeah I don't know how lucky I am.

not yet wrote: »

What the fu/ck is wrong with people that they dont know that public sector workers already pay 6% of the wage into a pension fund......

Yes I know it's a safe job etc, but most of them have a good education,have trained on crap money for 3-5 years, and only atfer 7 years do they go on the top of their scale. Now while at the height of the celtic tiger people made a fortune....plumbers charging 500 a day etc the p/s worker worked quitely behind the scenes.....

The private sector had it good for years, and now that we are in **** they want to target the p/s

Your problem (and it is a big fooking problem) is that you think everyone in the private sector is a plumber or got paid like a plumber. Tell that to the guy packing shelves in Lidl/Dunnes. Or the average entry level office worker. No, maybe the construction industry got paid well but most of them are already unemployed now or will be soon so what do you want to do, take their clothes off them for having it good for a few years? Good luck getting blood from a fooking turnip man.

not yet

Fcu/king car sales men making 1200 a week, estate agents 1500, bob the fuc/king builder anything up to 2000, and now things have got a bit hard they want to blame the public sector. let me remind you that a nurse has to train for up to 5 years on minimum wage while probably doing a night course,her starting salary is approx 23k only after 7 yeares can she expect to ge 35k, now for the crap she puts up with I dont think 35k is over the top. Remember that most of these people are well educated,well motivated and love their job, I doubt if anyone during the celtic tiger worked for 35 k with those qualifications.

monkeytronics

All public sector workers pay a contribution towards there pension - I pay 6.5% so I really wish people would educate themselves.

Secondly, I appreciate that SOME have taken a hit in the private sector. SOME. But NOT ALL. But now, every single public servant has been hit hard. Why should one community shoulder the burden. I don't necessary have a problem with a pay cut. But it should effect everyone across the working country not just some of the private sector and ALL the public sector.

Caoimhín

pink fluffy bunny wrote: »

25% OF MY DEPARTMENT HAVE JUST BEEN MADE REDUNDANT AND ANOTHER 25% ARE TO BE MADE REDUNDANT IN THE NEXT 3 MONTHS :mad::mad:

Were they full time, permanent positions. Were they in a union?

destroyer

It doesnt go far enough in my opinion.
This only keeps us treading water for six months maybe,
then the real cuts/tax increases will have to be implemented.
Public sector numbers will have to be cut by 15% as jobs
in the private sector are lost,taxes will have to be raised on everyone
(including those who took the hit yesterday) and property tax
now looks a certainty.
Its not all bad though, the cost of living will continue to
fall and we'll just have to get used to a reduction in living
standards.
Oh and if the gov. is really serious about curing the mess,
reducing social welfare payments as cost of living falls, will also
encourage people to get out there and find some kind of job.

not yet

Fuc/king whinging cu/nts made good money during the boom years, now they want to screw anyone with a pension, I, and others like me got into the p/s years ago because it was stable,and whilst people made good money we kept the services going at the coalface.

RasTa

They should have being forced to take a 10% pay cut.

Caoimhín

Caoimhín wrote: »

I have been saying the same thing for years. The fact remains, a public service job is very secure a great pension. Most private sector jobs do NOT have health insurance as a perk.
The stare can not afford to keep the highest paid public service in Europe. If they dont make these cuts, the state will be bankrupt in 6 months and the IMF will be called in to sack 25% PS workers anyway.

I know its hard to take any paycut but it is better than losing your job like the hundred of thousands of private sector workers who have lost their jobs in the past year.

Have to agree with you, you can't take from some and not from others but I do think the lowest paid in the public sector needs to be re-looked at, but as for anyone up on 30K+ some complaining.

I do agree with goverment that some hard decesions have to made but all options need to be looked at and it has to be fair and across the board. Take the ESB for example, only last week they announced huge profits and give themselves another payrise, why don't they decide not to give the payrise and take a drop in profits in order to lower the price of bills, thus helping businesses and home owners. Bord Gais and Eircom could do the same.

Taxes will be next hit too, if government are going to hit people's wages they need to address and do something to lower the costs of electricity, phone / internet services, VAT, VRT, high rents in the retail sector, stealth taxes etc... go after the people in the banks that have made a mess of things too and further lower the amount they give to overseas aid.

mickoneill30

not yet wrote: »

Fuc/king whinging cu/nts made good money during the boom years, now they want to screw anyone with a pension, I, and others like me got into the p/s years ago because it was stable,and whilst people made good money we kept the services going at the coalface.

Your a martyr. How were these services at the coalface paid for?