Sinn Fein these days

the_syco

Mods: move to tCN if you want. Was going to post it as a response in the Greens thread, but thought it'd be better if I created a new thread.

rcecil wrote: »

Not in politics for the money

They fought pretty hard to get paid by the British and Irish governments to do their job...

You forget the friggin increase in corporation tax they wanted to bring in. See how Dell went foreign to get cheaper staff? EVERY FRIGGIN company would do likewise if SF brought in the 30% corpo tax.
You think HP, Intel, or any of the few remaining foreign companies will stay if the Corporation tax went to 30% ?
I get this info from http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13143

[url=http://www.sinnfein.ie/news/detail/13143]SinnFein.ie[/url] wrote:

rate of 30% for larger companies

Oh, and don't give me any rubbish that we would develop self sustaining companies: we don't have any.

=-=

So, if SF used the current economic downfall to get in, would they totally f**k us over, or would they be able to help us?

Tricity Bendix

Economics is not Sinn Fein's strong point. Even they have acknowledged this. I doubt they see themselves as the solution to Ireland's economic problems. I suppose they would argue that having people with more of a 'social justice' point of view at the cabinet table could help mitigate the effects of spending cuts on the lower paid, working classes, and the marginalised. Thats how I'd play it, anyway, if I was advising them.

Soldie

They would totally f**k us over.

mike65

The good news for the Shinners is that they don't have to mention nationalising the banks anymore...

ShooterSF

(First the SF in my name has nothing to do with Sinn Fein)

If SF getting into power as the minor party was the only alternative to the greens I'd take SF any day. I don't agree with a lot of their more bleeding heart stuff but if it got the greens (*shudder*) out all the better.

turgon

Sinn Fein know they will never get into government, so they can afford to have these blown out unworkable measures that nonetheless appeal to their mostly dumb working class base and their northern patriots.

And I dont care that its not PC to say that, but its true.

K-9

ShooterSF wrote: »

(First the SF in my name has nothing to do with Sinn Fein)

If SF getting into power as the minor party was the only alternative to the greens I'd take SF any day. I don't agree with a lot of their more bleeding heart stuff but if it got the greens (*shudder*) out all the better.

SF will sell out if the need arises.

lostexpectation

maintaining the rate of 30% for larger companies

maintaining?

is he referring partly to the north?


look at how our low corp tax kept dell only aslong as they could find another low one.

Erin Go Brath

turgon wrote: »

Sinn Fein know they will never get into government, so they can afford to have these blown out unworkable measures that nonetheless appeal to their mostly dumb working class base and their northern patriots.

And I dont care that its not PC to say that, but its true.

Newsflash, SF are already in Govt in part of the country. Its certainly not inconceivable that SF will hold the balance of power in the 26C at some point in the next few years aswell.

SF do need to do some work on their economic policies, but FF have turned out not to be the experts they lead us to believe either. FG and Labour offer little more than ongoing attacks on the Govt, and the jury is really out on whether they would bring any improvements given the chance.

The bottom line is SF are in no way responsible for the recession/depression that the country currently finds itself in, and i seriously doubt they'd do as poor a job of running the country as the current establishment.

Big_Mac

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Newsflash, SF are already in Govt in part of the country. Its certainly not inconceivable that SF will hold the balance of power in the 26C at some point in the next few years aswell.

SF do need to do some work on their economic policies, but FF have turned out not to be the experts they lead us to believe either. FG and Labour offer little more than ongoing attacks on the Govt, and the jury is really out on whether they would bring any improvements given the chance.

The bottom line is SF are in no way responsible for the recession/depression that the country currently finds itself in, and i seriously doubt they'd do as poor a job of running the country as the current establishment.

Wanna bet? This from the party who wanted localised governments in each province?

Erin Go Brath

Big_Mac wrote: »

Wanna bet? This from the party who wanted localised governments in each province?

The major difference is a number of Fianna Failers have been known to be in big developers pockets, while Sinn Fein have far more integrity and are more genuinely interested in making sure the ordinary man doesn't get screwed over.

On the second point i think your getting Sinn Fein confused with Republican Sinn Fein who are no relation despite the similar name of the parties.

mountainyman

The banks have been nationalised. We are Sinn Feiners now.

the_syco

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

The major difference is a number of Fianna Failers have been known to be in big developers pockets, while Sinn Fein

had a private army not too long ago.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

On the second point i think your getting Sinn Fein confused with Republican Sinn Fein who are no relation despite the similar name of the parties.

I'm talking about the one that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness is in.

yomchi

the_syco wrote: »

had a private army not too long ago.


I'm talking about the one that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness is in.

Well then your talking out of your backside. Republican Sinn Féin lead by Ruari O'Brádaigh are in favour of a federal Ireland, it's part of the Éire Nua policy.

There seems to be a lot of scare mongering and incorrect facts bandied about in this thread. I also take exception to being labeled as dumb working class, the idiot who posted that should really go read a book and educate him/herself on the issue of class structure - Best off keeping your mouth shut and let people think your a fool........

What you have here is a party with left wing ecomomic policies, try to get your head around that there is an alternative to right wing policies where profit is put before people, it's a tad funny the way some posters seem frightened by the fact that a left wing alternative exists - this is the nature of politics.
Left wing policies will dictate that massive corporations and big business will pay more in tax to the state and rightly so.
There seems to be a 'cap in hand' mentality to these multinationals who realistically don't give a monkeys about ANYONE except the themselves. There main drive is money and the exploitation of workers as they make BILLIONS! Our over relience on them is sickening, and the way Irish people kow-tow to them is equally disturbing. It completely highlights the fact the some Irish people have absolutely no confidence in their own ability to be self sustainable. Globalisation has us in the friggin mess we're in. Capatilism and greed is the reason we're in recession. The nature of capitalism is that it is self destructing, it eats itself until the economy is knackered, as is now!

So what do we do? sit on our hands and wait for it to pick it's self up while feeling sorry for ourselves? Or do we try something different? I know what I want!

The banks have been nationalised. We are Sinn Feiners now.

One bank has been 'nationalised' and nationalised for all the wrong reasons. Are you actually aware of the details or do you think every bank has been bought?

look at how our low corp tax kept dell only aslong as they could find another low one

Spot on mate. There seems to be a thought here that multinationals are some sort of honourbale working group

Sinn Fein know they will never get into government, so they can afford to have these blown out unworkable measures that nonetheless appeal to their mostly dumb working class base and their northern patriots.

That quote is completely devoid of any political understanding or any rational thought.

Irlbo

turgon wrote: »

Sinn Fein know they will never get into government, so they can afford to have these blown out unworkable measures that nonetheless appeal to their mostly dumb working class base and their northern patriots.

And I dont care that its not PC to say that, but its true.

'Mostly dumb working class',how elitist of you,Sinn Fein very strong in working class area's not because working class people are dumb,but because Sinn Fein is a very hands on party that deals very well with bread and butter issues other mainstream run of the mill parties wouldnt touch,issues such as drugs,crime,bin taxes etc,and in regards Northern patriots there are many Southern patriots who vote and support Sinn Fein aswell

Rebel021

Jon wrote: »

Well then your talking out of your backside. Republican Sinn Féin lead by Ruari O'Brádaigh are in favour of a federal Ireland, it's part of the Éire Nua policy.

There seems to be a lot of scare mongering and incorrect facts bandied about in this thread. I also take exception to being labeled as dumb working class, the idiot who posted that should really go read a book and educate him/herself on the issue of class structure - Best off keeping your mouth shut and let people think your a fool........

What you have here is a party with left wing ecomomic policies, try to get your head around that there is an alternative to right wing policies where profit is put before people, it's a tad funny the way some posters seem frightened by the fact that a left wing alternative exists - this is the nature of politics.
Left wing policies will dictate that massive corporations and big business will pay more in tax to the state and rightly so.
There seems to be a 'cap in hand' mentality to these multinationals who realistically don't give a monkeys about ANYONE except the themselves. There main drive is money and the exploitation of workers as they make BILLIONS! Our over relience on them is sickening, and the way Irish people kow-tow to them is equally disturbing. It completely highlights the fact the some Irish people have absolutely no confidence in their own ability to be self sustainable. Globalisation has us in the friggin mess we're in. Capatilism and greed is the reason we're in recession. The nature of capitalism is that it is self destructing, it eats itself until the economy is knackered, as is now!

So what do we do? sit on our hands and wait for it to pick it's self up while feeling sorry for ourselves? Or do we try something different? I know what I want!


One bank has been 'nationalised' and nationalised for all the wrong reasons. Are you actually aware of the details or do you think every bank has been bought?


Spot on mate. There seems to be a thought here that multinationals are some sort of honourbale working group



That quote is completely devoid of any political understanding or any rational thought.

Couldn't agree more:)

Serenity Now!

Irlbo wrote: »

Sinn Fein is a very hands on party that deals very well with bread and butter issues other mainstream run of the mill parties wouldnt touch,issues such as drugs,crime,bin taxes etc

Oh the irony...

yomchi

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Oh the irony...

So here's another one liner, it's so easy to hide behind one liners my friend. Just drop it in and run off.

But this once I challenge you to a debate on what your issues are and why you thought it necessary to drop this into the mix.

Are you up for it? Or are you another one who takes their politics from the media?

Well care to expand on your comments?

Irlbo

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Oh the irony...

The irony in what???please elaborate

Serenity Now!

Jon wrote: »

So here's another one liner, it's so easy to hide behind one liners my friend. Just drop it in and run off.
But this once I challenge you to a debate on what your issues are and why you thought it necessary to drop this into the mix.
Are you up for it? Or are you another one who takes their politics from the media?
Well care to expand on your comments?

The statement that Sinn Fein have a mandate about crime is what I find ironic given their links to the PIRA and how it has funded itself.

Thats why I find it IRONIC.

Fratton Fred

So we kick out the multinationals and then what? Sinn Fein are a good fringes party for applying pressure but they simply do not have the experience to run a country.

OhNoYouDidn't

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So we kick out the multinationals and then what? Sinn Fein are a good fringes party for applying pressure but they simply do not have the experience to run a country.

They are in government in the 6 counties ffs.

One of the problems is their left wing economic rhetoric has not been implemented in the north nor any effort made to implement it. They are more than happy to cosy up to the MNC's.

Not only do they get attacked by the advocates of the failed right wing economic model for their policies, the left attack them because they do not practice what they preach.

Irlbo

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They are in government in the 6 counties ffs.

One of the problems is their left wing economic rhetoric has not been implemented in the north nor any effort made to implement it. They are more than happy to cosy up to the MNC's.

Not only do they get attacked by the advocates of the failed right wing economic model for their policies, the left attack them because they do not practice what they preach.

Sinn Fein are all things to all people,in reality their politcs is firmly in the centre

akaredtop

Murdering Scum!!!!

Fratton Fred

Irlbo wrote: »

Sinn Fein are all things to all people,in reality their politcs is firmly in the centre

Great, just what Ireland needs, a party that tries to please everyone.

Irlbo

akaredtop wrote: »

Murdering Scum!!!!

Who are?

kmick

Jon wrote: »

There seems to be a 'cap in hand' mentality to these multinationals who realistically don't give a monkeys about ANYONE except the themselves. There main drive is money and the exploitation of workers as they make BILLIONS! Our over relience on them is sickening, and the way Irish people kow-tow to them is equally disturbing. It completely highlights the fact the some Irish people have absolutely no confidence in their own ability to be self sustainable. Globalisation has us in the friggin mess we're in. Capatilism and greed is the reason we're in recession. The nature of capitalism is that it is self destructing, it eats itself until the economy is knackered, as is now!

They dont profess to give a monkeys. The only stated aim is to return value to shareholders. I dont think anyone would argue however that workers in DELL, INTEL etc have been "exploited" as you put it. They were paid very well.

However it is well proven that increased taxes (for example a 30% corporation tax rate) just stifle growth. I mean as we all know governments are unable to efficiently use tax revenues. The more they have they more they seem to squander it. Sinn Fein are unlikely to break the mold in this regard.

One final point on Capitalism not working. Socialism is not exactly a shining model here either...
China
Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
North Korea

Id much prefer to live in Ireland which to my mind is a "socialist leaning" republic than any of those countries above. We have some problems but overall we are a very stable society.

Irlbo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Great, just what Ireland needs, a party that tries to please everyone.

What we really dont need Fred are corrupt,useless political parties who cant properly maintain the country within government and profess to be republican but in reality pander to Britain

Irlbo

kmick wrote: »

They dont profess to give a monkeys. The only stated aim is to return value to shareholders. I dont think anyone would argue however that workers in DELL, INTEL etc have been "exploited" as you put it. They were paid very well.

However it is well proven that increased taxes (for example a 30% corporation tax rate) just stifle growth. I mean as we all know governments are unable to efficiently use tax revenues. The more they have they more they seem to squander it. Sinn Fein are unlikely to break the mold in this regard.

One final point on Capitalism not working. Socialism is not exactly a shining model here either...
China
Cuba
Laos
Vietnam
North Korea

Id much prefer to live in Ireland which to my mind is a "socialist leaning" republic than any of those countries above. We have some problems but overall we are a very stable society.

I dont really see how Socialism and Republicanism can be intertwined,Republicans in terms of Ireland,is about erradicating all foreign influence and establishing a sovreign republic,but socialism is a internationalist idealogoly,I never saw how they are linked

grahamo

turgon wrote: »

Sinn Fein know they will never get into government, so they can afford to have these blown out unworkable measures that nonetheless appeal to their mostly dumb working class base and their northern patriots.

And I dont care that its not PC to say that, but its true.

What a dumb thing to say:)
Hopefully the shinners give all you middle class eejits a shock next time when the working class vote them in

OhNoYouDidn't

Irlbo wrote: »

I dont really see how Socialism and Republicanism can be intertwined,Republicans in terms of Ireland,is about erradicating all foreign influence and establishing a sovreign republic,but socialism is a internationalist idealogoly,I never saw how they are linked

No its not.....

Might explain your confusion.

Fratton Fred

Irlbo wrote: »

What we really dont need Fred are corrupt,useless political parties who cant properly maintain the country within government and profess to be republican but in reality pander to Britain

How the feck do FF pander to Britain??

Right now the country needs firm leadership and good economic guidance. Don' ask me where that is going to come from because I don't know. If you tax the multinationals out of Ireland, what have we got left? From what I have seen of Sinn Fein policies, there is nothing there that fills me with confidence. I don't dobt their intentions, it is their abilty I would question

Irlbo

grahamo wrote: »

What a dumb thing to say:)
Hopefully the shinners give all you middle class eejits a shock next time when the working class vote them in

HERE HERE,they be all running to Dun Laoghaire to get the boat to England,lol

Fratton Fred

Irlbo wrote: »

HERE HERE,they be all running to Dun Laoghaire to get the boat to England,lol

You laugh, but if that is the case then I suggest you get your potato growing skills up to scratch, you are going to need them.

Irlbo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

You laugh, but if that is the case then I suggest you get your potato growing skills up to scratch, you are going to need them.

Im a simple man,growing potatoes would suit me perfectly,people here take things too seriously,if they were to relax and not worry about sh*te that they dont need to worry about then we'd all be better off

Nodin

Irlbo wrote: »

Im a simple man,growing potatoes would suit me perfectly,people here take things too seriously,if they were to relax and not worry about sh*te that they dont need to worry about then we'd all be better off

Is it middle class to want to have more than spuds on the plate and worry about having a few bob in the bank?

Irlbo

Nodin wrote: »

Is it middle class to want to have more than spuds on the plate and worry about having a few bob in the bank?

No but its middle class to want all the spuds on your plate and have a hefty bank balance at the expense of everyone who has nothing

ionix5891

just read the thread starters link to their web site

so let me get this straight

they screamed during the Lisbon vote that EU *might* raise corpo tax but yet they "want" to increase corp taxes alot it as per their strategy


woa they are crazier than i taught

low corpo tax is the last remaining thing holding companies here especially in these tough times

grahamo

Irlbo wrote: »

No but its middle class to want all the spuds on your plate and have a hefty bank balance at the expense of everyone who has nothing

Well Said. A lot of people don't have money in the bank and never have. They live from week to week. How many of the posters on here who claim to be 'hardworking' have actually done a days graft on a building site? These are the people who have got the country up off its knees during the hard times of the 80's and got feck all for their troubles.

Fratton Fred

The people who got this country off its knees were the German and British tax payers who paid for all these building projects.

ionix5891

grahamo wrote: »

Well Said. A lot of people don't have money in the bank and never have. They live from week to week. How many of the posters on here who claim to be 'hardworking' have actually done a days graft on a building site? These are the people who have got the country up off its knees during the hard times of the 80's and got feck all for their troubles.

yes the builders and their politician buddies have got us into a great economic situation, just wonderful

now were in a situation that makes the 80s look good

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0204/employment.html

ionix5891

just read

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/financial-crisis/83642bn-cuts-cowen-lays-it-on-the-line-1626313.html


45K :eek: average pay for public sector, holly crap! :eek: :eek: no wonder were screwed, theres me thinking i was doing well by getting paid 30K (22K after all taxes, and VAT would apply on rest ) after slaving for a year trying to grow own business


the "people who built this country" are seriously considering leaving :mad:

grahamo

ionix5891 wrote: »

yes the builders and their politician buddies have got us into a great economic situation, just wonderful

now were in a situation that makes the 80s look good

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0204/employment.html

You are confusing the workers with management here. I'm talking about the tradesmen and labourers, the people who do all the actual grafting.These people certainly did not cause this economic mess

grahamo

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The people who got this country off its knees were the German and British tax payers who paid for all these building projects.

Which will no doubt be paid back with interest by the people of my childrens generation:)

stakey

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

They are in government in the 6 counties ffs.

That's hardly experience. Since its foundation the assembly has spent more time being suspended than it has spent in session. They run an economy that is financed hugely by the British government and with 63% of the people working in the public sector Sinn Fein wouldn't know how to manage a large private sector economy.

Sinn Fein (and the other Northern Irish political parties) have absolutely no idea how to run a country. At least Labour and Fine Gael have actually had time in government making important decisions that aren't based on rediculous things like what flag flies over a building.

LordSutch

What do ya reckon 3 or 4 seats in the next Dail (max).

akaredtop

Hopefully no seats.

grahamo

In Dublin they will win a seat in every constituency except for the Westbrit constituency:D

Fratton Fred

Oh look, how original. Better vote sinn fein boys otherwise you're a west brit. Nice demonstration of why people don't vote for them

ionix5891

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Oh look, how original. Better vote sinn fein boys otherwise you're a west brit. Nice demonstration of why people don't vote for them

god help us if sein fein come in power :eek: these people are clueless

yomchi

Serenity Now! wrote: »

The statement that Sinn Fein have a mandate about crime is what I find ironic given their links to the PIRA and how it has funded itself.

Thats why I find it IRONIC.

The IRA has removed itself from the equation. It has declared its war is over and has put it's weapons beyond use.
But bear this in mind, ever since the formation of the IRA it has funded itself the exact same way most revolutionary armies have, even Michael Collins robbed post offices. Sinn Féin are a legitimate registered political party on the island of Ireland. They are not the IRA. Therefore there is no irony, they are completely entitled to have a policy -not a mandate as you put it - on crime. Let's not slip back in the old days of blaiming republicans on the rain.

ionix5891 wrote: »

god help us if sein fein come in power :eek: these people are clueless

Yeh I hope that party never get in, who ever sein fein happen to be

Sinn Féin will eventually end up in a coalition government, with a party and at a time that suits their over all strategy. Sure, they have not much experience, but experience can be gained.