Taxi Prices

lcom

I recently got a taxi from the airport to Stepaside and it cost me €65...I was so shocked at the price. The taxi driver even switched off the meter when we were getting close to Stepaside because the price was just becoming ridiculous. The distance from the airport to my house is 22miles. So is this a standard price for that distance? Seems really high. The last time I got a taxi from the airport which was probably about 2 years ago, it only came to €50.

Time Magazine

Interesting you ask this the same day taxi drivers march. There's not enough trade to go around, in economics lingo: the market is over-supplied. Taxi drivers want to limit supply; economists would rather lower the price.

For future reference, the Aircoach goes to Leopardstown for €8.

dresden8

I live in Swords.

It's 16-18 Euro to the airport.

Ridiculous.

We get the bus now.

beertons

A few of us rang to get a people carrier from Naas to Dame street on the friday after new years. The first crowd quoted €150. The next €75. We got the one for €75. When we were finished in the club, we walked straight out, and the pulled the first cab we saw. Dude rolled down the window and said €60 to Naas, no probs. Neither were on a meter, no reciept. And the first crowd we rang will never be called again!

P. Breathnach

The Economist wrote: »

Interesting you ask this the same day taxi drivers march. There's not enough trade to go around, in economics lingo: the market is over-supplied. Taxi drivers want to limit supply; economists would rather lower the price.

The mechanism for lowering the price is competition rather than having a single price structure imposed by a regulator. I think we need regulation to ensure minimum standards, but each operator should be free to set his or her own prices.

It's not unworkable. In Budapest, for example, there are maximum prices set by regulation, but many operators charge less. If you want a low-cost service, you phone one of the operators that you know charges less. If you hail a cab on the street, chances are you will get one of the maximum-price services.

That operates in Wexford as well - you pay a premium for on-demand service of a taxi. But if you book in advance with some of the guys in the country you get a much better deal and service.

Spook_ie

dresden8 wrote: »

I live in Swords.

It's 16-18 Euro to the airport.

Ridiculous.

We get the bus now.

Oh whereabouts in Swords? and what times where you using taxis?

dresden8

Applewood.

Most anytime of the day.

Spook_ie

dresden8 wrote: »

Applewood.

Most anytime of the day.

Odd that, I work soley nights and I would have said Applewood ( Glenellen ) to the airport at peak rate ( nighttime ) would have been €16 ( including pick up charge )and I'd estimate day time rates as being closer to €13, but if you're happy getting the bus then be happy....

but do remember that the taxi is a door to door service and is exclusive, not bus stop to bus stop, shared

dresden8

Spook_ie wrote: »

Odd that, I work soley nights and I would have said Applewood ( Glenellen ) to the airport at peak rate ( nighttime ) would have been €16 ( including pick up charge )and I'd estimate day time rates as being closer to €13, but if you're happy getting the bus then be happy....

but do remember that the taxi is a door to door service and is exclusive, not bus stop to bus stop, shared

Haven't paid that low in a long time.

MaryCat!

Taxi prices are high in Ireland but not as bad as in New York or London

Spook_ie

dresden8 wrote: »

Haven't paid that low in a long time.

I'll have to double check it next time I get a pick up in Applewood, which cab company did you use?

mikemac

The black cabs in Belfast are increidbly expensive.
The locals don't use them, only tourists and the naive, that's me

I've never been ripped off by a Dublin taxi and if one tried a scenic trip I'd call them on it.

Used the black cabs in Belfast, my bogger accent clearly showed I wasn't a local, I didn't know the routes and my mates from Belfast laughed at me when I told them what I was being charged

lcom

The Economist wrote: »

Interesting you ask this the same day taxi drivers march. There's not enough trade to go around, in economics lingo: the market is over-supplied. Taxi drivers want to limit supply; economists would rather lower the price.

For future reference, the Aircoach goes to Leopardstown for €8.

Yes, I know about the aircoach but it just takes forever and i was really tired that night after a long flight. I'm never charged the same price for the same journey, so it seems that taxi drivers do have the power to charge what they like.
Getting a taxi from the city home has come down a lot which is a good thing. If this is a result of there being more taxis and greater competition, then I'm all for.

Time Magazine

P. Breathnach wrote: »

The mechanism for lowering the price is competition rather than having a single price structure imposed by a regulator. I think we need regulation to ensure minimum standards, but each operator should be free to set his or her own prices.

It's not unworkable. In Budapest, for example, there are maximum prices set by regulation, but many operators charge less. If you want a low-cost service, you phone one of the operators that you know charges less. If you hail a cab on the street, chances are you will get one of the maximum-price services.

I disagree to a large extent. The taxi market is extremely informal so I think strict price regulation is necessary to prevent consumers getting ripped off. I also think prices could be a good bit lower than at the moment.

The mechanism exists for consumers and drivers to charge less than the fare set by the Regulator; it's just a pain in the hole system at the moment.

P. Breathnach

The Economist wrote: »

I disagree to a large extent. The taxi market is extremely informal so I think strict price regulation is necessary to prevent consumers getting ripped off. I also think prices could be a good bit lower than at the moment.

The mechanism exists for consumers and drivers to charge less than the fare set by the Regulator; it's just a pain in the hole system at the moment.

Budapest has a system for protecting consumers from being ripped off ("preventing" is a bigger challenge). It's simple: the rates are painted on the taxi doors, on the outside in large enough print to be easily legible. And bear in mind what I already said: maximum rates are set by regulation.

What would be wrong with a system where a taxi operator could legally and conveniently put a sticker on the car proclaiming "I charge scale fare less 10%"?

Time Magazine

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Budapest has a system for protecting consumers from being ripped off ("preventing" is a bigger challenge). It's simple: the rates are painted on the taxi doors, on the outside in large enough print to be easily legible. And bear in mind what I already said: maximum rates are set by regulation.

What would be wrong with a system where a taxi operator could legally and conveniently put a sticker on the car proclaiming "I charge scale fare less 10%"?

Nothing at all. That could happen in the current system, though afaik he'd have to get you to sign a document to say you accept it first!

P. Breathnach

The Economist wrote: »

Nothing at all. That could happen in the current system, though afaik he'd have to get you to sign a document to say you accept it first!

When the last round of fare increases was announced, operators were obliged to have their meters recalibrated -- and pay a fee of the order of €180 for it. Some operators said that they would prefer to operate at the existing fares, but were told that was not allowed. [A big "afaik" qualification: what I remember of radio discussions a few months back.] So it is made difficult for operators to compete on price.

Time Magazine

Yes, but it's possible to agree a price with the driver before the trip starts. However, afaik, both of you have to sign a document to this effect.

Morlar

I have completely* stopped using them since the last increase and so have most people I know.

I think a LOT of people (I know anyway) have decided they are too expensive to use and arranging lifts and so on.


* bar one time when I HAD to - no public transport and no lift available.

Morlar

P. Breathnach wrote: »

When the last round of fare increases was announced, operators were obliged to have their meters recalibrated -- and pay a fee of the order of €180 for it. Some operators said that they would prefer to operate at the existing fares, but were told that was not allowed. [A big "afaik" qualification: what I remember of radio discussions a few months back.] So it is made difficult for operators to compete on price.

The most recent fare increases were what the taxi unions/federation lobbied for. Actually they were pissed off as it wasnt quite as much as they were looking for.

I remember at the time reading from a minister or other that the fare increases were NOT obligatory - they were simply the new maximum legal charge.

oisindoyle

beertons wrote: »

A few of us rang to get a people carrier from Naas to Dame street on the friday after new years. The first crowd quoted €150. The next €75. We got the one for €75. When we were finished in the club, we walked straight out, and the pulled the first cab we saw. Dude rolled down the window and said €60 to Naas, no probs. Neither were on a meter, no reciept. And the first crowd we rang will never be called again!

All fares HAVE to be on the meter .Thats the law.All taxi drivers are obliged to issue receipts .Thats the LAW..
The companies you rang probably gave an estimate of the fare .Are you sure they were taxi companys or hackney companys ,,BIG DIFFERENCE...You cannot give the exact fare over the phone for a number of reasons if its a taxi .Namely all fares have to be on the meter and also traffic congestion .You could get a taxi and get stuck in traffic say on the Naas Rd or where ever and obviuosly the meter ticks over while stopped or driving under 20kms an hour

oisindoyle

The Economist wrote: »

Yes, but it's possible to agree a price with the driver before the trip starts. However, afaik, both of you have to sign a document to this effect.

Not quite true

P. Breathnach

oisindoyle wrote: »

Not quite true

Can you elaborate?

I am of the opinion that it should be convenient for taxi operators to compete on price (subject to maximum rates being set). Is this possible under present rules?

Gumbo

oisindoyle wrote: »

Not quite true

as long as the customer and the driver agree a price before setting off then the meter doesnt have to be turned on. BUT a waiver has to be signed before pulling off by both the driver and the customer.

Spook_ie

kceire wrote: »

as long as the customer and the driver agree a price before setting off then the meter doesnt have to be turned on. BUT a waiver has to be signed before pulling off by both the driver and the customer.

Again not quite, to legitimately avail of the waiver forms ( the only time you are legaly allowed to do a journey without the meter on ), the journey must be pre-booked rather than hailed off the street or a rank, however, provided that it is agreed before the commencement of hire it possible to ask the driver for a discounted or fixed fare but in such cases the meter should still be activated and at the end of the journey the agreed price be paid, again, however, if you require a receipt for the journey the driver should fill in the bottom of the receipt detailing the discount given, so that you don't try to claim the full fare of any kind of expense account.....ain't life simple being a legit taxi driver...

johnnyskeleton

Deleted User wrote: »

That operates in Wexford as well - you pay a premium for on-demand service of a taxi. But if you book in advance with some of the guys in the country you get a much better deal and service.

In Dublin, if you book ahead you get a €2 callout fee (or is it more - I only get taxis when the alternative is dying of hypothermia when walking home in the rain).

oisindoyle

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

In Dublin, if you book ahead you get a €2 callout fee (or is it more - I only get taxis when the alternative is dying of hypothermia when walking home in the rain).

Theres a universal taxi price now for the whole of Ireland .Every county charges the same .
If you phone for a taxi theres a booking fee extra of 2euro that applies to every taxi throughout Ireland .Thats the law.
If its a hackney company you phone you get a Hackney cab .Their charges are different......

johnnyskeleton

oisindoyle wrote: »

Theres a universal taxi price now for the whole of Ireland .Every county charges the same .
If you phone for a taxi theres a booking fee extra of 2euro that applies to every taxi throughout Ireland .Thats the law.
If its a hackney company you phone you get a Hackney cab .Their charges are different......

There is a universal maximum taxi price for the whole country. Taxi drivers can charge less if they want. But, in Dublin anyway, they don't. The other poster said that in Wexford it's cheaper if you book the taxi, and I have no reason to doubt him.

oisindoyle

oisindoyle wrote: »

Theres a universal taxi price now for the whole of Ireland .Every county charges the same .
If you phone for a taxi theres a booking fee extra of 2euro that applies to every taxi throughout Ireland .Thats the law.
If its a hackney company you phone you get a Hackney cab .Their charges are different......

I've gotten free rides in a taxi and I've given well above the cost when the service was good. I haven't broken any law

todolist

Taxi fares are too dear in Dublin.If they were cheaper more people would use them.It doesn't make economic sense to see so many taxis driving around empty because people aren't prepared to pay the high fare.And comparisons to New York and London are a bit silly.Dublin is just a village compared to those huge cities.

mikemac

Price of fuel comes down and fares go up. :rolleyes:
Now I do remember taxi unions demanding an increase when fuel prices were very high. Maybe they had a point, haulage companies and airlines lashed on a fuel surcharge.
But this increase was introduced just as fuel prices collapsed.

I've definitly started using them less since the fare increase and I did use them 3-4 times a week.
I've had three drivers tell me they didn't wanted an increase, they wanted a cap.
I've no real opinion on that matter and I don't worry over it, we have a regulator paid to do for us. But I would say that even in a cap was in place, this higher fare has turned a lot of people away from taxis.

badinfleunce

Another Good Oule TAXI RANT! - The people we love to hate! Never happy when there are no taxis and then when the taxis are plentyful people expect the service should be for free. You get nothing for nothing in this life!

I think Taxi drivers should be paid as a public servant with an equivalent wage to a Garda or a Nurse.

That way the all Taxi drivers would get a gauranteed pension. There wages would all be the same, and a levy could be put on public taxes to make sure that when they take early retirement at 50 they are looked after for the rest of their days!

I always feel sorry for our Taxi drivers most of who are nice genuine people. The problem they are faced with is that the government totally control what they do yet they do not want to ultimately take responsibility for them. So they issue them licenses and say to them you Self Employed so off you go and earn a living. But you can only charge a fixed amount.

Imagine saying that to a developer selling houses!!!?? mmmmm

These the people who we should be complaining about. They are responsible for the state of this country not the poor Oule Taxi driver or the Plasterer or the electrician or the chippy who were all really just earning a wage like the rest of us during the good times.

As a matter of fact a Taxi driver told me before the fare increase that they did not want the fare increase because they felt it wasnt justified and that they still would not earn anymore money because people would stop using them and also because by the time it was introduced there would be an extra 15000 taxis on the road throughtout the country and the dilution in their wages would be so great that they would never see any of it.

I would agree with the Taxi drivers - the regulator needs to stop issueing the licences. Im sure the taxi drivers would agree to a roll back in the fares if the regulator stopped the issueing of licences. Any of them I have spoken to said they would.

What about our government- will they be leading by example soon and taking a pay cut considering they expect everybody else to?

mikemac

But where is the cut-off?

I buy a taxi plate this week and immediately join any protests and demand a cap?
And I'm sure there are drivers who have done this.

Hardly seems right.

dresden8

I do remember a taxi driving friend of mine about 15 years ago saying the prices were too high and were driving customers away. (This was pre-celtic tiger and we forgot what money really was) The shortage of taxis was keeping them in business.

Situtation is just all effed up now.

oisindoyle

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There is a universal maximum taxi price for the whole country. Taxi drivers can charge less if they want. But, in Dublin anyway, they don't. The other poster said that in Wexford it's cheaper if you book the taxi, and I have no reason to doubt him.

He couldnt possibly be charged less if he phoned /booked a taxi.Its in black and white ,its set in law ,,,CALL OUT CHARGE 2EURO.....
Your friend in wexford more than likely phoned a HACKNEY CAB,,,,,
There is a univeral taxi charge ALL FARES MUST BE CALCULATED ON THE METER ,,,,,

mikemac

oisindoyle wrote: »

He couldnt possibly be charged less if he phoned /booked a taxi.Its in black and white ,its set in law ,,,CALL OUT CHARGE 2EURO.....
Your friend in wexford more than likely phoned a HACKNEY CAB,,,,,
There is a univeral taxi charge ALL FARES MUST BE CALCULATED ON THE METER ,,,,,

Many taxi firms advertise no 2 euro booking fees.
In fact I get flyers through my postbox on it. Now it's not in Waterford but if a company wants to save me 2 euro I'm might just give them my fare instead of someone else

johnnyskeleton

oisindoyle wrote: »

He couldnt possibly be charged less if he phoned /booked a taxi.Its in black and white ,its set in law ,,,CALL OUT CHARGE 2EURO.....
Your friend in wexford more than likely phoned a HACKNEY CAB,,,,,
There is a univeral taxi charge ALL FARES MUST BE CALCULATED ON THE METER ,,,,,

Which law is it set out in? I've never looked into it in forensic detail, but my understanding is that the taxi regulator sets maximum fares that taxis across the country can charge for certain types of service. Individual taxis do not have to charge these charges.

gurramok

The situation for taxi drvers will get worse. As in past times, when there are alot of unemployed, some of those take up taxiing to earn a keep. Its even easier now to obtain a plate.

If its carnage now to earn an income for taxi drivers, it will be apocalypse in 1-2yrs time as the unemployment rate rockets nevermind the public cutting back on expensive taxis..

Fat_Fingers

Hold on a sec... What is this poor taxi drivers now. Well i could never afford to take taxi before, during "good times" or now. I know some taxi drivers did very well for themselves last 10 years. Taxi driver i know has the best house on the block, wife doesn't work, 3 kids and 2 cars.. new car every January. That tells me he was doing well. Friend of mine , builder, told me how guy (taxi driver) wanted to build a house and was looking for 20% discount in exchange for paying 200K + in a cash! Yep, in cash! Builder guy had a few sleepless nights but eventually decided against it and didn't get the job.
All i'm saying that you shouldn't buy too much in "poor us" stories.

Time Magazine

gurramok wrote: »

The situation for taxi drvers will get worse. As in past times, when there are alot of unemployed, some of those take up taxiing to earn a keep. Its even easier now to obtain a plate.

If its carnage now to earn an income for taxi drivers, it will be apocalypse in 1-2yrs time as the unemployment rate rockets nevermind the public cutting back on expensive taxis..

Stupid rules are stupid rules and should be reversed. The fire extinguisher thing is shocking stupid and I've had some taxi drivers who needed directions to get from Harcourt Street to Clonskeagh. These people should have a basic idea of the city they're in before they get a licence and should probably be forced to have a GPS if they don't know Dublin like the back of their hand. I'd rather not have to give directions after a few in Coppers. The Regulator needs to improve the situation, no complaints there.

However I have very little sympathy for taxi drivers who are struggling to make a living. They say there are 25,000 taxis in Dublin now and there's not enough business for all of them. Then go do something else. The lads who just entered are clearly happy with what they're earning. If you're not happy with the level of competition in your job, you leave. You're no more entitled to my business than the guy who got his licence last month. He may well have a wife and kids and just got laid off too. If it weren't for deregulation, then 23,000 of you would be out of the job.

P. Breathnach

The Economist wrote: »

...If it weren't for deregulation, then 23,000 of you would be out of the job.

But the problem is that there was not deregulation. There was a regulation package, the main feature of which was the limiting the number of licences, particularly in Dublin. Under threat of legal action, Bobby Molloy removed the cap on numbers. But in some other respects regulation not only continued, but became heavier. Taxi deregulation was a misnomer.

I don't believe in entirely free markets. But where regulation exists, it must be justified. Consumer and public protection are important justifications; restricting seller access (provided the sellers are no threat to consumers or the public) is far more difficult to justify; restricting competition is also difficult to justify, and the present regulatory regime seems to have such an effect; the imposition of additional costs on suppliers needs to be justified on the basis of commercial need or the public good.

Anyone have any information on how the regulated price is determined? Can't imagine there is some guy sitting in the basement working out ramsey prices.

Consigliere

I wonder if anybody posting here saying that fares are too expensive actually knows a taxi driver personally?

There is no money to be made out there, and people who are really struggling to put bread on the table. I know a taxi driver who went out to work the other night for 7 hours and came home with 13 euro, and he's been doing it for years.

If you're getting a taxi from the airport the whole length of the M50 then you should expect a high price, there was probably traffic to consider when you got it as well, which the driver can't be blamed for.

It may seem from my tone that I am a driver, but I am in fact an economics student in UCD. It just annoys me when people with plenty of money who can obviously afford the luxury of a taxi instead of a bus complain that the poor should be getting poorer. Very selfish.

Fat_Fingers

You are implying that all taxi drivers are poor. I know one taxi driver that is quite the opposite. Lot of very well paid professions wouldn't even come close to what he has been earning.

Since you are doing economics they you know the market will take care of taxi high prices. Price will drop or there will be lots of them looking for different job since market will not pay prices that are set too high.

Time Magazine

Consigliere wrote: »

It may seem from my tone that I am a driver, but I am in fact an economics student in UCD. It just annoys me when people with plenty of money who can obviously afford the luxury of a taxi instead of a bus complain that the poor should be getting poorer. Very selfish.

If you're familiar with economics that if a market is over-supplied you'll know that there are two responses: lower quantity or lower price.

You may not remember what the lower quantity situation was like. It wasn't good.

A lower price situation would have guys not willing to work leaving the market, with the guys willing to work hardest left in. The current calls from "the taxi fraternity" (their words, not mine) are to not allow any new guys enter the market. That sort of system completely blocks the poor guy from getting a job, even if it's low-paying.

As for people "with plenty of money" not getting a bus, you might be surprised to hear that many Nitelink services have ceased operation.

Time Magazine

P. Breathnach wrote: »

But the problem is that there was not deregulation. There was a regulation package, the main feature of which was the limiting the number of licences, particularly in Dublin. Under threat of legal action, Bobby Molloy removed the cap on numbers. But in some other respects regulation not only continued, but became heavier. Taxi deregulation was a misnomer.

I'm almost certain it was done by the courts, not by Bobby Molloy.

Consigliere

Fat Fingers, I'm sure there are exceptions but I'll think you'll find that taxi drivers in 21st century Ireland do not generally fall into a high income bracket. Perhaps your friend was born into wealth, has another and more solid source of income or drives a merc and does chauffeuring work too. This is not a typical case as I'm sure you must be well aware.

@ The Economist

I feel that there could have been a balance struck between lower and higher quantity. There was little foresight in making it so easy to enter the market imo.

With a lower price, those "guys not willing to work leaving the market" that you mention would most likely be the middle aged + taxi driver, "not willing to work" because he is getting on, working twice as hard as before and making a quarter of what he used to. He has been doing the job all his life, since it used to be the perfect occupation for the average working class guy, and now has very low prospects of finding alternative significant employment. He would struggle and most likely live out what could have been a nice retirement in considerable discomfort, despite having served us all well for years.

The "guys willing to work hardest left in" would, in my view, be mostly made up of young guys, who have plently of other options available to them. Whatever about efficiency, a taxi is a taxi, and I think certain people (those who will soon be approaching old age in particular) deserve to be protected. Taxi drivers obviously don't want anyone else in the market for a reason, and I don't think they're being greedy here.

That's the thing about Economics, it all sounds great in theory, but at the end of the day its just a set of simplified models that don't properly take the complexities of the real world into account.

If prices are lowered, being realistic, I think you would get alot more scams going on with taxi drivers struggling to make an extra buck. Messing with the meter, keeping expensive items left in the back of their cars and selling them on the black market etc. Of course, I'm sure that would be preferable as long as the fare was slightly lower?

unemployed_dub

Heard a taxi man on news other night saying he had to work 90 hours a week to make a "decent" living.... surely the regulator should be enforcing the EU working time directive..... Who fancies getting into a taxi if the driver has been on the road for the last 18 hours???

oisindoyle

unemployed_dub wrote: »

Heard a taxi man on news other night saying he had to work 90 hours a week to make a "decent" living.... surely the regulator should be enforcing the EU working time directive..... Who fancies getting into a taxi if the driver has been on the road for the last 18 hours???

I can assure you that many are working 90 hours per week just to break even and im not exaggerating.THEY HAVE TO DO IT
The regulator has NO powers at present to do anything .She has no powers to stop illegal taxis or prevent drivers with no english driving a taxi .She says its a garda matter .
As for the EU working time directive ,Do you ever wonder how part timers do it ,They do a full days work and the go out at night til the early hours,,,would u feel safe in his car ,,,,,,,i wouldnt ....

LightningBolt

I think prices need to come down in order to entice people to use the service more. I know my father and others resisted the last increase in fares but were forced to pay €180 to have their meters updated.

A percentage of tax drivers do taxiing as it's not a physically taxing job (other than driving around and maintaining concentration for a long period of time). Should they decide to something else they are limited, case in point being my father who has had a double bypass and finds it difficult to stay on his feet for a long time due to a blocking up of the arteries in his legs. For himself and drivers like himself what other options is there for them?

My father previously ran a business but because of stress related effects he could no longer continue running it post-op although he did attempt to.